Knight Rider Replicas from Eric Shave (Wildcopper.net)

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:55 am

To keep things short: I am from Europe. In 2003, I went to New Jersey to meet

Eric Shave (Wild Copper: http://www.wildcopper.net/) and
Paul Sher (Code One Costum Auto, http://www.codeoneauto.com/)

and I have spent 30,000 dollars deposit on a super high quality replica of a movie car. I have been wainting for three years but I have not received anything but excuses and mails. The car is not a Knight Rider but since these companies build KITTs too, I wanted to ask for experiences of other customers. Does anyone of you know them?

Thanks a lot!

thunder

BoMcD · Post by **BoMcD** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:36 am

Sad to say this but those 2 names dont exactly inspire a lot of confidence in the conversion community.

Eric Shave has a trail of other people that he has done similar things to...

Sorry that you spent all that money...

And as far as "super High quality".. . questionable...very questionable.

knightdriver · Post by **knightdriver** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:16 am

$30,000.00 DEPOSIT!

What were they charging you for the whole car? Thats HIGH!

To bad you didn't check around a bit more before purchasing
(or should I say paying). Sorry to say you may not be getting
anything in return.

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:22 pm

knightdriver wrote: Sorry to say you may not be getting
anything in return.

Thanks for your replies.

The question I would further ask is what you Americans do in such a situation. Where I come from it would be very easy. You hire a "special" collection agency, they send five 220 ponds black dressed men from Russia or the Ukraine to the subject and he WILL pay. Thats what I guarantee.

Unfortunately this will not be possible for me in the US, I do not know any procedures. What do you suggest? Someone who steals 1000 dollars from me will be in BIG trouble. But 30k would be a mission for Leon - The Professional.

Thanks for any comments.

BoMcD · Post by **BoMcD** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:50 pm

You may contact the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) in New Jersey.
It reeks of International Wire Fraud if you ask me.

FBI Newark
11 Centre Place
Newark, New Jersey 07102-9889
newark.fbi.gov
(973) 792-3000

kitt1 · Post by **kitt1** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:42 pm

I know for a fact that someone once sent a "Collection Agency" to see Shave. After given the options, he paid.

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:16 pm

Thanks, you are fantastic!

Dont get me wrong. I do not want to inflict damage to anybody but he is going to pay. I do not know why anybody puts up with that behavior. Maybe some people might think that 1000 dollars are not worth a conflict. But 30k? I think he messed with the wrong guy this time.

I will call the FBI tomorrow. I also mailed the NJ Customer Affairs office:
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov. Do you think this is helpful? Does it pay off to call them?

Do you know any Collection Agencies in the area, or a lawyer (I guess the latter would not help a lot?!)

Many Thanks!!

MIKEMAC · Post by **MIKEMAC** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:17 pm

thunderstruck wrote:Thanks, you are fantastic!

Dont get me wrong. I do not want to inflict damage to anybody but he is going to pay. I do not know why anybody puts up with that behavior. Maybe some people might think that 1000 dollars are not worth a conflict. But 30k? I think he messed with the wrong guy this time.

I will call the FBI tomorrow. I also mailed the NJ Customer Affairs office:
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov. Do you think this is helpful? Does it pay off to call them?

Do you know any Collection Agencies in the area, or a lawyer (I guess the latter would not help a lot?!)

Many Thanks!!

Man, that sucks, but I hope and pray you get your money back, to bad your not in Hawaii you could call "Dog the bounty hunter" to sick after him and get your money!!

seriously, go for it and I hope you get your money!!

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:28 pm

Start with a lawyer. A lawyer will be better able to tell you whose jurisdiction this falls under. I think it's premature to be contacting the FBI: if you gave him the money while you were in New Jersey, then it would have absolutely nothing to do with international wire fraud. My point is that you are giving very little information, and none of us are really qualified to give you good legal advice. Go to someone who knows the right questions to ask and who will know how the law works in your own country.

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:17 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:Start with a lawyer. A lawyer will be better able to tell you whose jurisdiction this falls under...

I transfered the money via the bank. I have these authentifications. Both of the two signed the contract on the 28th of March 2003. I have my flight ticket, the hotel bills and fotos. I can proof that I was there, that all of that happened. And I have dozens of mails full of BS.

Contacting a lawyer was my first idea, but lawyers in my country must not work on a success related basis. So it could happen that I pay 10000 more to the lawyer and he then tells me "sorry i could not do anything for you". I am not throwing ood money after the bad. And why do you think that Collecting Agencies exist? Just because lawyers fail.

I do not want to pay much for the obviuos: My right. If in US lawyers get paid when thy win the case and Mr. Shave and Sher must pay my lawyer bill - great. I am 100% confident of winning.

i am taking all of these steps simultaneausly.

Mikko L · Post by **Mikko L** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:16 pm

All I can say is good luck!

knightridergundam · Post by **knightridergundam** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:01 am

thunderstruck wrote:
Michael Pajaro wrote:Start with a lawyer. A lawyer will be better able to tell you whose jurisdiction this falls under...
I transfered the money via the bank. I have these authentifications. Both of the two signed the contract on the 28th of March 2003. I have my flight ticket, the hotel bills and fotos. I can proof that I was there, that all of that happened. And I have dozens of mails full of BS.

Contacting a lawyer was my first idea, but lawyers in my country must not work on a success related basis. So it could happen that I pay 10000 more to the lawyer and he then tells me "sorry i could not do anything for you". I am not throwing ood money after the bad. And why do you think that Collecting Agencies exist? Just because lawyers fail.

I do not want to pay much for the obviuos: My right. If in US lawyers get paid when thy win the case and Mr. Shave and Sher must pay my lawyer bill - great. I am 100% confident of winning.

i am taking all of these steps simultaneausly.

I read your post and I asked my Uncle (he is a lawyer). And he said (paraphrasing from what I remember)

1) Get a Lawyer. (then if you don't know what you need to do, ask you lawyer, and play ball from there)
2) Photocopy EVERYTHING you have when you made the deal. I mean EVERYTHING no matter how trival it is, because you might (probably will) need it.
3) Sense you made the deal when you where in Jersey, it will most likey fall under US jurisdiction, call the FBI.

don't quote me on this, I called him on the 18th, then after that *?$# hit the fan. Stupid school.

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:03 pm

Thanks for your comments.

In the meanwhile both have agreed on refunding the money. Not the whole 30,000 but the most. I have received a little of it, but I hope that this will not take too much time. It really sucks being 4000 miles away with an ocean in between. If I'd live just the next corner, I guess the story would be different.

I hope that at least many people read such stories in order to avoid making such mistakes.

KRFAN · Post by **KRFAN** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:21 pm

im so stupid

i emailed them
gave my email
asked to make kitt

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:26 am

I want to keep this thread updated:

Almost nothing has happened in the meanwhile although 3 months have passe. Sher has paid nothing and does not even react on my mails/phone calls any more. Shave has paid 2000. Incredible. I cant believe what is possible in USA, I thought such crap would only happen in Nigeria or the Ucraine.

Any others of you who read these lines for the first time and want to share some ideas on how to act on them?

rhdaussiekitt · Post by **rhdaussiekitt** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:07 am

thunderstruck wrote:To keep things short: I am from Europe. In 2003, I went to New Jersey to meet

Eric Shave (Wild Copper: http://www.wildcopper.net/) and
Paul Sher (Code One Costum Auto, http://www.codeoneauto.com/)

and I have spent 30,000 dollars deposit on a super high quality replica of a movie car. I have been wainting for three years but I have not received anything but excuses and mails. The car is not a Knight Rider but since these companies build KITTs too, I wanted to ask for experiences of other customers. Does anyone of you know them?

Thanks a lot!

thunder

sorry about your bad luck with those idiots
many people have been burned
what i would suggest is go to these sites ,.
u may have to reload a couple of thimes cause there getting hit with spam at the moment
http://www.knightregistries.com/

and

http://www.knightfoundation.net/

the ones above are the only recognized kitt builders from hollywood etc
so they might have some suggestions
tell them knightman sent u(that was my old name on here till i forgot my password)

BoMcD · Post by **BoMcD** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:27 am

The sad thing is...

2000$ ....This is probably all you are going to get out of them.

They are not to be trusted. They have ripped off many people and will continue to do so.

Sher and Shave have a looooong history of being crooked.

Short of hiring an attorney, there isnt much you can do. If you made the wire transfer from your country, then contact the FBI.

Wish you would have went with a reputable parts dealer Like Louisell, then we wouldnt be having such a disappointing discussion...

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Tue May 16, 2006 2:04 pm

At least it is a theoretically interesting question:

Should I try to find more people over the internet who were frauded by them to file a combined lawsuit? This would reduce costs but if we win and Sher/Shave do not have resources of say 150k altogether my portion is very low.

Should I post here at all? By not posting they would be able to aquire more customers and money could be paid back to me. and so on.

However, I still have trust in the American legal system. USA is not the Kongo or Sicily. If someone frauds people intenionally or professionally he will be punished and if that should mean that he goes to jail. Definitely these two messed up with the wrong person, and 30k is too much to just ignore it. You know what happened in the 1930's when German people get angry. My destructive potential against these two will outreach WWII in each possible dimension if they do not cooperate.

sheltonw3 · Post by **sheltonw3** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:45 pm

first of all the justice system is a joke ,you are not getting what you want,right?...,a year ago I spoke with a private investigator and he told the best thing to do is find there address and phone number and if its up to date?...and call the Deputy attorney General for that state and let them know you what you went through and give every detail!...
and let the U.S.attorney do there thing and most cases they will shut them down and arrest them and charge them with fraud!...that carries about 1 to 8 in prison!...and the I.R.S. will rip them apart!...and it would
not hurt to call the U.S. department of traffic saftey too!...let'em know that they are removing airbags from cars and selling them without them!,
you might well throw back as much dirt as possible!...they have been ducking and dodging you for 3 yrs!,that really sad to let that happen ,if it was me ,I would find out were they were and call them and tell them I am coming with several people and I plan on getting my money back and piece of there hyde!

....when it comes to 30 K...somebodies gonna pay!....the first thing to do is get there information up to date!...and all else fails ,get violent!....they already know you are outside the U.S. so they don't fear you until you arrive!

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:39 pm

Not to be a spoilsport...

Regardless of how much money someone has lost, this is not the place to be advocating violence, joking or not. Period. Also, most of us are completely unqualified to be giving good legal advice in this matter. Thunderstruck, I invite you to participate in the other discussions on our forum; so far the only messages you've posted have been comlpaints about a vendor which we have no association with and I don't think that's within the spirit of the board. Hopefully by now you've been given enough resources to explore your options. Good luck.

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:54 pm

@Michael Pajaro: You should not be worried about the violence suggestions. What yould you consider if you had someone in Germany or France owing you 30,000 Euros? You cannot walk up to his house with some angry hooligans. I might have been fooled but I am not an idiot.

You must understand that the USA system appears to be sick to many Europeans. Someone gets paid by Marlboro because he got cancer from smoking, anotherone became fat from McDonalds hamburgers and sues the company for millions but I cannot get my money back and I am supposed to pay 500$ per hour to some lawyers. I just wanted to know what other do and IRS/FBI etc as suggested here sounds good maybe only as a threat potential.

When I write here, your forum visitors become more aware of the problems that may exist out there in the market. You benefit from my experiences, I am sorry that I cannot share any nice Knight Rider stories, I am just describing what has happened. I just cant believe that there are so many people who report bad experiences but nobody can tell me what they did to get their money back. "get a lawyer" - nobody did it. "call the FBI" - nobody did it. I only read of people being scammed but nobody acts aggressively. So where are these you were scammed personally, and what did you do?

thunderstruck · Post by **thunderstruck** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:02 pm

I put all the information of this case on one homepage http://www.shavedbysher.com

All (maybe to many) details are given there for everyone who is interested. I hope to receive a lot of feedback and information from others who have similar experiences.

Thanks for reading!

@the comments above: the purpose of my activities is collecting information. I want to leave them with only two options: refunding or jail. i do not want to walk up someone's house with a baseball bat. I do not want to be sent to jail, even if it was a chance to meet Shave and Sher.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:57 am

I believe you are only hurting yourself, and this is why you need a lawyer.

You just laid out everything that you can and can't prove. Which means Eric and Paul know exactly what tracks they need to keep covered, or have excuses for.

Your entire argument is that you paid Eric Shave $30,000 to build you a car, and he didn't deliver. But on your website, you clearly state you DIDN'T give him any money; you sent money to somebody named Jill, whom I assume did not sign a contract. Now maybe Paul is still guilty of fraud, but technically you never did give him any money. And those technicalities are going to kill you if you don't know what you are doing.

Judges can be sympathetic to naive victims (to protect little old ladies from being conned out of their money), yet you make it very clear that you WERE suspicious and you STILL went ahead and sent $30,000 overseas to a person you never signed a contract with.

You told us you didn't go to a lawyer. On your website you say that you were in contact with a lawyer from the very beginning. So one of those statements must be false. What else that you have posted is false?

You did post threats involving violence. We don't know who you are, so we don't know how serious you are. And you can't just go back later and say "oh, I didn't mean it." And this may be a cultural difference: with all due respect to the great modern-day nation of Germany, comparing yourself to 1930s Germany is NOT a good way to gain sympathy in the United States.

If I were Eric Shave's lawyer, I would be thanking you for making things so easy for me.

Skav · Post by **Skav** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:19 am

Michael Pajaro wrote:And this may be a cultural difference: with all due respect to the great modern-day nation of Germany, comparing yourself to 1930s Germany is NOT a good way to gain sympathy in the United States.

..and make Germans look bad in the process, especially as they are starting to get along with most ppl now. Not good.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, you are naive enough to give someone abroad $30,000 to build a KR car, I'm sure you feel pretty silly losing that money over something you don't necessarily need but want.

If it was me, I'd be looking at a dealer a little closer to home, ideally in my own country to get the job done and if one does not exist, that's just the way it goes.

Anybody can be scammed and frauded in this day and age, Nigeria or Ukraine has nothing to do with it (why those countries anyway), if ppl think they can get money off you, *especially* if you are living abroad, they will do so.

You can't trust anybody that you don't really know.

You have not acted upon Sher and Shave with any legal services as of yet because you probably don't know what to do but here's a question: Didn't you think about the possible consequences of giving away $30,000 before you did so?

From that website link you provided for your information, it seems you were worried about giving the money but did so anyway. Did you want one that bad? Was it worth losing close to $30,000 over?

Research into the dealer before you handed the money over wouldn't have gone amiss.

Finally, this is indeed the wrong forum to be discussing this kind of thing, even though you want to hear other's experiences, ppl have told you from their *experience* not to deal with Shave and Sher.

Why ppl have not told you their experiences in getting the money back possibly has to do with the fact it's difficult to even do so in these situations.

You are very lucky to even get $2000 refunded.

knightdriver · Post by **knightdriver** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:28 pm

Just wanted to point out that the $30,000.00 was not for a KR car
but a souped up replica of the Hardcastle and McCormick Coyote.

I also agree that putting the web site up isn't going to help you, in
fact it may hurt your chances.

It does seem that you should go after the girlfriend since she is
the one you transfered money too.

Knight Rider Replicas from Eric Shave (Wildcopper.net)

Knight Rider Replicas from Eric Shave (Wildcopper.net)

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