KARR...Back from the Bridge CPU, or New Creation?

[cazman101]

Thank you.
I was explaining my theory to a friend who drew upon the question as to why they would use KARR and not KITT given how dangerous reactivating KARR would be. My answer was simple. While KITT is morally the superior under military application his programming would make him less effective since preserving human life would cause several severe errors. KARRs programming would not have these issues and the NSA would have known this and AI clone would allow them to use the same mentality placed into a new tech-brain would also give them the oppertunity to correct any immeadiete flaws. If successful would allow them to make thousands more with the same programming. Now this leads me to the conclusion that not only is the original still on a shelf somewhere but in that wharehouse there could be more and the only one we saw was the one they were working on. Now if that were the case should the Original come back online he would have an army in waiting.

You know I might actually write this as a story so far it seems to be writing itself.

[t.b.77b]

The stunt in question was, from what I can tell from the Behind-the-Scenes video we were shown, meant to be used for when KARR swiped Torres off the ground before stuffing him in his cockpit.

Not even a shred of reference of the old series or KI2T or the old KARR come on!
[...]
The only that really came out good out of this episode is that F.L.A.G. is coming back

Two things:
1. Am I the only one seeing a contradiction here? You say "not a shred of reference to the old series", and in the same post you mention FLAG, which was one of the central elements of the original KR.
2. SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW?! There was NEVER any direct, concrete connection between the current KITT and its predecessor other than vaguely similar background history, so why the hell would KARR be any different?

LOL Haters are always contradicting themselves...

I see what your saying but I think it was just a simple mistake and he was focusing more on the no reference to KI2T or the old KARR.

[WIBoomer1]

We have found out that there was the KARR project in which a vehicle named KARR was created. It was a prototype that Charles Graiman is credited as the creator of. KARR was to be a infiltration vehicle, but due to an error in his programming, became unstable and unusable in it's form. Michael Traceur was the test pilot of this vehicle, and it was decided to erase his memories regarding the KARR Project, because there were deaths involved. Charles Graiman then went on to create KI3T, and it was decided to again use Michael Traceur as the test pilot. There has only been a mention on the show, that Michael Knight's father was also a Knight Industries driver.

I am writing this so people can please put to rest the hope of the 82 KARR showing up in any form. It's crystal clear that there is no CPU to be recovered, to be used as a basis for new programming, etc. It simply never existed in this inKARRnation.

The only way that a '82 KARR derived episode could appear is in a different variation/version/update of Knight Rider. This version has it's KARR now, and we need to accept it. The internet upload, that's an interesting idea. Perhaps maybe KITT is stolen, the KARR files d-loaded into him, and then some Hoff + Son action could pursue.

Maybe KARR will be in the Glen A Lawson movie, if it ever comes out. If the movie does well, then maybe as the main bad guy in a sequel. One can only hope.

[PunkMaister]

We have found out that there was the KARR project in which a vehicle named KARR was created. It was a prototype that Charles Graiman is credited as the creator of. KARR was to be a infiltration vehicle, but due to an error in his programming, became unstable and unusable in it's form. Michael Traceur was the test pilot of this vehicle, and it was decided to erase his memories regarding the KARR Project, because there were deaths involved. Charles Graiman then went on to create KI3T, and it was decided to again use Michael Traceur as the test pilot. There has only been a mention on the show, that Michael Knight's father was also a Knight Industries driver.

I am writing this so people can please put to rest the hope of the 82 KARR showing up in any form. It's crystal clear that there is no CPU to be recovered, to be used as a basis for new programming, etc. It simply never existed in this inKARRnation.

The only way that a '82 KARR derived episode could appear is in a different variation/version/update of Knight Rider. This version has it's KARR now, and we need to accept it. The internet upload, that's an interesting idea. Perhaps maybe KITT is stolen, the KARR files d-loaded into him, and then some Hoff + Son action could pursue.

Maybe KARR will be in the Glen A Lawson movie, if it ever comes out. If the movie does well, then maybe as the main bad guy in a sequel. One can only hope.

It has never been made clear as to who designed the first KARR and KITT Wiltoin Knight envisioned a car like KITT but he was clearly not the brains behind it. Grayman is the best candidate.

[Skav]

Where in the episode is it confirmed in concrete that it was a brand new KARR? I did mention a scene with the holographic Graimen explaining things being proof that it was a new KARR but after further thinking, I am not so sure. I am going with the idea that it was the 82 KARR's CPU upgraded for this series.

[WIBoomer1]

Where in the episode is it confirmed in concrete that it was a brand new KARR?

Where in the episode was an CPU was recovered?

I did mention a scene with the holographic Graimen explaining things being proof that it was a new KARR but after further thinking, I am not so sure.

There's no mention of it, so therefore, not canon.

I am going with the idea that it was the 82 KARR's CPU upgraded for this series.

It's a nice thing to believe in, but sadly not true.

82 KARR never existed in KR 08, long live 08 KARR!

[PunkMaister]

It's a nice thing to believe in, but sadly not true.

82 KARR never existed in KR 08, long live 08 KARR!

You do not have any shred of proof to substantiate that claim. The truth is right now there is no proof either way so is all hearsay...
Still I got with the Grayman being the Robotics genius we know he is that he was the one behind Wilton's Knight Original KITT project and the new one as well as the KARR first prototype and the it's resurrection as a military project...

[t.b.77b]

It's a nice thing to believe in, but sadly not true.

82 KARR never existed in KR 08, long live 08 KARR!

You do not have any shred of proof to substantiate that claim. The truth is right now there is no proof either way so is all hearsay...
Still I got with the Grayman being the Robotics genius we know he is that he was the one behind Wilton's Knight Original KITT project and the new one as well as the KARR first prototype and the it's resurrection as a military project...

I see no concrete evidence either. Sorry.

[PHOENIXZERO]

I thought about this last night. The Green Screen shot showed Torres being tossed into a wall...which interesting enough, we never saw in the episode...so it was shot, but never used.

Sarah stated that Charles was the program. There always could be some creative way to bring KARR back, but for now, from what I've seen, I'm highly doubting that.

This was explained by MKF in the video chat, he wasn't being tossed into a wall, what we saw was his being put into KARR.

[Amir]

It has never been made clear as to who designed the first KARR and KITT Wiltoin Knight envisioned a car like KITT but he was clearly not the brains behind it. Grayman is the best candidate.

Well, it's all a little complex, mostly because it's TV show and they can make up anything they want.

In Trust doesn't Rust KARR calls Wilton Knight 'my creator'. In KTNP, KARR calls Charles 'my creator'. Obviously 'a creator' could mean both the man who built KARR or the man who had the vision and funded the project. Also, if you want to believe KARR08 is based upon KARR82, Wilton could have built the first KARR, while Charles built the second based on KARR82 CPU, so both are KARR's creators.

It would actually make sense in a way. In TDR, Devon says Wilton activated KARR, and after the error in programming was discovered and Wilton was trying to fight the people who also tried to kill Michael Long, he (Devon) was trying to create a safer car. So here's a decent explanation: Wilton build KARR82, but didn't get it right. Devon obviously needed help, so he got Charles who build KI2T based on Wilton's KARR82 (but with better programming). It would also explain why Charles would later build a new machine called KARR (whether it's based on the old or not) - he didn't have anything to do with the original, so it wouldn't be a problem for him.

Obviously, when a series that is a continuation uses names and characters from the original, you'd expect them to clarify the connection. Using the names Devon and Bonnie in Baywatch Knights (or whatever that early episode was called) was ok, but the fact Knight Rider didn't at least explain whether KARR was brand new or based upon the old KARR is a major flaw. Maybe they wanted to or even filmed it and cut it out because the episode just had too many things, and the KARR story was just one of them rather than the entire episode. One can always hope it will happen if there's another KARR episode somewhere along the line, but it looks as though we've got five episodes and that's that.

[PunkMaister]

^ Personally I hope KARR returns specially since they did left it open ended with that NSA guy saying they will never be able to stop KARR obviously as in the military project.

[Sue]

I think it is the same KARR in a way, because the voice is the same. So the part of his programing that determines his voice is still in existence. Why does he have to exist on a CPU, maybe the original files / programs that were first developed for the so called "KARR project" still existed somewhere at Knight Industries and were used as the basis to create a new KARR. If KITT can lose his CPU and upload himself to the internet. KARR could exist that way too.

[Lost Knight]

[Sigh] Look. It's like this: If we have to even be in the position to debate whether this is the original K.A.R.R. or not, then the writing is weak and vague, to put it as lightly as I can. There is no luxury of "we'll just explain it later on" anymore. There never really was, but we got lucky to make it past the episode 13 mark. In fact, it's pretty amazing we made it this far into the franchise and should be happy enough about that.

The facts regarding this K.A.R.R. are so grossly vague and botched up that the idea is to clearly downright confuse everybody into coming up with their own theories. Why confuse us? Simply to cover up the half-hearted attempt at continuity which is pathetic. If they don't really explain anything, then anything's possible! Yay! Everybody wins! Why actually pay attention to a wide open opportunity for continuity left in "K.I.T.T. Vs. K.A.R.R." when we can just be vague enough to hope everyone goes along with it and makes their own personal stories?

Give me a break. I'm insulted.

[cazman101]

I would certainly agree that it was written as vague and wasting valuable screentime on pointless plots instead of using the time to galvanise the story. I would say at this point it was so vague that even the producers are probably confused as to whether its the original in a continuation story or not.

[Karman]

I think it is the same KARR in a way, because the voice is the same. So the part of his programing that determines his voice is still in existence. Why does he have to exist on a CPU, maybe the original files / programs that were first developed for the so called "KARR project" still existed somewhere at Knight Industries and were used as the basis to create a new KARR. If KITT can lose his CPU and upload himself to the internet. KARR could exist that way too.

Maybe, KARR is downloaded onto some geek kids PlayStation! Hahahahaha hah ha he hmmm
Ok that was lame... but that's how lame I thought part of Kitt being on some kids X-Box was.

[taoworm2323]

It would have made more sense for KITT to be on a PS3 because of the hardware.
You can make a supercomputer out of one of those things.

[jshorva65]

I personally hope it is he old KARR CPU which was found by the goverment or somehow made it into their hands at the end of his last appearance. They then installed it in a new mustang body which can transform into this robot form. Sarah's dad and the FBI know about it, but can't do anything about them using it. If it's not something along these lines it would be a waste to have Peter Cullen return to do the voice and be another strike against the show for me. I think I would then have to give up on the show being a continuation of the old one. I was hoping ratings would be good enough to get to the storyline that was hinted at, and that I read about, where we might get a return of David Hasslehoff and the origional KITT for a multi episode arc. (Though I doubt we would see the origional Trans Am version of KITT.) I do have to say that this show is much better in my opinion then TKR.

Hellstrom's hope really seems the most plausible of all the explanations of KARR-E's origins which I've read here. Some Federal agency (NSA, etc.) gets its hands on the 1982 KARR AI and recruits Mike from the Army Rangers to operate it. Charles Graiman, as its creator, is also "recruited" under duress to debug the thing, and naively hopes that he can debug the selfish KARR AI to protect his operator (Mike), thus pleasing his Federal bosses. Graiman's hope is to create an AI "suit of armor" to protect soldiers instead of the killing machine the Feds want, and he almost succeeds until the project goes horribly wrong (or is sabotaged) when KARR-E acquires (or is fed) information which causes him to lash out against some perceived "threat" to his safety. Perhaps Mike and KARR-E might even have bonded before KARR-E went berserk, and their cameraderie was the reason behind the Fatal-Attraction-esque behavior toward Mike in Knight to King's Pawn. After KARR-E goes on his killing spree with Mike in the driver's seat, Graiman pulls the plug on KARR-E, the NSA wipes Mike's memory, and Graiuman goes into seclusion to develop KI3T (a second-generation AI, upgraded from KI2T's original source code) as a crimefighting tool. After Devon Miles took over as President of Knight Industries following Wilton Knight's death, Charles Graiman perhaps became his VP or was recommended for the position when Devon's grandaughter (played by a British actress, of course), Kimberly Miles, was offered the position of VP of Knight Industries following her grandfather's death, but appointed Charles to be Devon's successor due to personal commitments of her own. Perhaps she already had a career as President of some University or Hospital in the UK and had no desire to move permanently to America, although she may have accepted a Board of Directors position instead, on the condition that she could attend meetings via satellite teleconference to minimize travel between continents except in emergency situations where her presence in the boadrdoom was absolutely necessary.

Perhaps the above storyline could be integrated into one or more future episodes as "prequel" plot arcs, shown "memories" from the viewpoint of Mike, Sarah, Charles, KI3T, KARR-E (or different parts of the subplot depicted from "memories" of each).

In another thread, there has been some speculation as to how Mike's mother fit into TOS. There were MANY possibilities in TOS, as Michael Knight Sr. really "got around" back then. I would have to re-watch more of TOS before making a final pick as to who Jennifer Traceur could have been in TOS. The name "Jennifer Traceur" would be, I suspect, a Witness Protection Program pseudonym given to one of the many women who represented the attempts by Miichael Knight Sr. to move foraward during the "off-again" times during the on-again/off-again relationship with Stevie March in TOS. As someone who was in an on-again/off-agin for 8 years back in the 80s, I identified with dynamic of the Michael/Stevie relationship. Was it ever addressed in TOS why Stevie March wasn't assigned a new identity? Was she not even told that Michael Long survived being shot in that Nevada desert until she met him again as Michael Knight? Was she offered a new identity sometime between Knight of the Phoenix and White Bird and declined to disconnect from her old life? Did Michael Knight Sr. choose all those one-night-stand liasons out of fear that building a relationship with and remaining faithful to Stevie might put her in danger from enemies he had made through his work with FLAG?

[jshorva65]

Along with a more-complete link between Knight Rider Jr. and TOS mythology, there are other aspects of KI3T and KARR-E which should be incorporated as continuations from TOS. I agree that the Nanoskin technology alone leaves KI3T entirely too vulnerable when deprived of full AI functionality for whatever reason (as when shut down to full-manual mode to evade hackers or thwart a virus, or while rebooting). The original Molecular Bonded Shell technology (incorporating Nanoskin repair when online in case of being attacked by a weapon which might be capable of damaging the passive shell technology) is needed to retain at least some of KI3T's supercar capabilities even in full-manual mode. I also agree with others who said that upgrades to KI3T's dash are needed to make it less plain and to allow certain capabilities (especially Turbo Boost) to remain available in full-manual mode. Anything less would be equivalent to forgetting that Clark Kent could still outrun a bullet without his cape if he had to.

[PunkMaister]

It would have made more sense for KITT to be on a PS3 because of the hardware.
You can make a supercomputer out of one of those things.

A supercomputer out of a PS3? Do you have any idea how supercomputers even work? Unlike regular computers which usually have only one CPU or 2 at best (A Processor and a Co-Processor) a supercomputer is composed of multiple CPUs each doing a specific task it is what makes them super fast to begin with...

[Lynda414]

Maybe if you had several PS3s, you could make a supercomputer.

[PunkMaister]

Maybe if you had several PS3s, you could make a supercomputer.

The same argument could be made of any high end PC or Laptop you know... And is not just the CPUs I'm not certain but I think in a supercomputer each CPU is specialized for each task and not in generalized fashion as most CPUs in current computers and game consoles are...

[Lynda414]

*shrug* I was just saying...

I remember back when the PS2 came out, there was some hype going around about it being able to launch missiles or some crap. >_<

[PunkMaister]

*shrug* I was just saying...

I remember back when the PS2 came out, there was some hype going around about it being able to launch missiles or some crap. >_<

The PS2 at that time was as good as the high end PCs and Laptops so yes... When I say high end I mean something like what an AlienWare PC for example...

[lunchmeat]

It would have made more sense for KITT to be on a PS3 because of the hardware.
You can make a supercomputer out of one of those things.

A supercomputer out of a PS3? Do you have any idea how supercomputers even work? Unlike regular computers which usually have only one CPU or 2 at best (A Processor and a Co-Processor) a supercomputer is composed of multiple CPUs each doing a specific task it is what makes them super fast to begin with...

Uh, Cell Processor, dude. It has multiple cores, so it fits your criteria.

Along with a more-complete link between Knight Rider Jr. and TOS mythology, there are other aspects of KI3T and KARR-E which should be incorporated as continuations from TOS. I agree that the Nanoskin technology alone leaves KI3T entirely too vulnerable when deprived of full AI functionality for whatever reason (as when shut down to full-manual mode to evade hackers or thwart a virus, or while rebooting). The original Molecular Bonded Shell technology (incorporating Nanoskin repair when online in case of being attacked by a weapon which might be capable of damaging the passive shell technology) is needed to retain at least some of KI3T's supercar capabilities even in full-manual mode. I also agree with others who said that upgrades to KI3T's dash are needed to make it less plain and to allow certain capabilities (especially Turbo Boost) to remain available in full-manual mode. Anything less would be equivalent to forgetting that Clark Kent could still outrun a bullet without his cape if he had to.

While I agree with the Turbo Boost idea, I actually kind of like the whole nanotech idea. Not only is it super-super-cool (I'm a geek), but KI3T is generally online so I don't think the nanoskin thing will be much of a problem. (At least, I hope not - I don't think the writers should use "hacking KI3T" as a regular plot device. He's an AI, so he should only be susceptible to really serious stuff, like that techno virus in that one episode. Nobody should be able to hack into him....but then, I'm not the writers.)

Additionally, I think that the nanoskin can provide a good chance to give KI3T a real vulnerability - I mean, he's pretty invulnerable most of the time, like the original model, but the "nanotech offline" device can be used to create suspense and an overall good time. Generally, watching TOS, it was established that KI2T was generally impervious to anything (with a few exceptions) so although KI2T was in a lot of dangerous situations, you knew he'd be alright. (I do note, however, that the writers for the '82 series knew this and used it very well.)

KI3T....he's got the same thing going on; he can't be hurt easily, if at all, most of the time. But if for some reason the nanotech is offline...it's that "oh *?$#" moment.....how are Mike and KI3T gonna get out of this one? I'm not saying it's something that should be used all the time, as KI3T should almost always be online, but I love those moments where I'm watching a suspenseful show and I'm wondering what's going to happen next. You know the moments...

"Hey, what did I miss"
"Mike and Kitt are speeding down the road, trying to avoid the rockets."
"....Rockets?"
"Yeah, from the helicopter."
"Dude whatever, rockets can't hurt Kitt"
"Not while his nanotech's offline!"
"Wait....*gasp* how are they going to get out of this?"

Aaaand we sit down and tune into the show. I guess...I dunno. Think of it like a Star Trek episode where something vital breaks and they have to fix it just in time to beat the situation. I wouldn't mind seeing this once in a blue moon, as long as they don't overuse it.

Eh....this is long, sorry.

[jshorva65]

Computer genius that Charles Graiman is/was, it would be an awfully hard sell for me to believe that he would have been so foolish as to "make the same mistake twice" as to KARR-E being created by him as a new entity in the 21st century after already having discovered the error that made KARR(82) go rogue and incorporated its simple fix into KI2T's AI. Does everyone else here follow my logic so far? Whether KARR's AI was resurrected from a physical CPU or from Backup media and adapted (by Graiman acting purely under duress) to a new platform and activated (again under duress) by him then becomes irrelevant. We are, afer all, talking about NSA here, an agency which, by definition, has zero respect for human life. "That's the Military mind for you, 'Kill or be killed.'" (the late Jonathan Harris as Dr. Zachary Smith, Lost In Space, "The Reluctant Stowaway" 1965). That would fully explain Alex Torres' assertion that KARR-E's systems aren't Plag-and-Play, KARR(82) having pre-dated PnP technology bt more than a decade. Even KI2T's new applications needed considerable manual configuration by Bonnie in TOS after each was installed. Remember the Laser in TDR when KI2T first did battle with KARR(82) in TOS? Who else here remembers that, despite Graiman's creations' having been decades ahead of anything Gates' MS had even begun to conceptualize in its real-life R&D, the printers at the FLAG office and in the semi were still tractor-feed dot-matrix technology? Mike's memory could be the medium by which Graiman could be shown (re)activating KARR-E from the wrong end of Hearst's weapon, then (reluctantly, perhaps) saving Hearst's miserable skin by obeying Hearst's subsequent command (also enforced by point-blank 9mm) to deactivate KARR-E as he turns to attack Hearst for ordering Graiman to shut him down. That would also fully explain why KARR-E told Torres that he (still) only accepted orders from Graiman. KARR-E would have perceived Graiman's having shut him down at gunpoint as Graiman only acting in self-preservation, as KARR-E himself would doubtless fully comprehend. Yes, before I get flamed for this, I do remember that KARR(82) remembered Wilton Knight as having both activated and then deactivated him. Graiman might have given Wilton Knight the honor of starting up KARR(82) for the first time, and the shutdown code so Knight could again shut down KARR(82) perhaps because KARR(82)'s faulty programming might have caused him to abandon Ken Franklin, thus leaving him in the position which allowed CJ Jackson to fire the fatal shot (and five more) at Franklin. Ken Franklin was the first driver of a FLAG supercar, before Michael Long/Michael Knight Sr. In KOTD (S3E1), Devon reveals the story of Franklin's being killed in the line of duty to Michael Sr. (although absent any mention of KARR). If the chronology depicted in KOTP (that KI2T wasn't completed until after Michael Long underwent and recovered from his plastic surgery and was completed when he was only because of an accelerated work schedule) is taken as canon, then "chickening out" on the part of KARR(82) due to faulty programming could have been a contributing factor in Franklin's death. It was never revealed in TOS (to my recollection) how many (if any) died as a result of KARR(82)'s defective programming. Perhaps the total number of deaths for which KARR-E was responsible was a total from all of the times when his faulty programming had (either directly or indirectly) caused loss of innocent lives.