Live Discussion - Knight and the City

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by lunchmeat » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:47 pm

I LOVED this episode.

I missed it last night because my work schedule has changed, so I didn't have access to a TV - but I just watched in on Hulu and I have to say that this is one of the most coherent Knight Rider plots I've seen. In fact, throughout the entire episode, I almost forgot that I was watching Knight Rider - this wasn't your typical cheesy episode with lots of camp and/or stupidity. The plot was good, the dialogue was great, and the balance and pacing were excellent. I was hooked....and I noticed Andron's name in the opening credits as supervising producer. (I don't know if this is another one that he wrote or not.)

I loved the interaction between Zoey and Billy - it was a return to the silliness of their characters, and their dual dynamic (which I love) but it wasn't overdone. They worked really well for me and they pushed the story along. Also, anyone notice that the couch was brought in this episode?

KI3T and Mike worked really well in this episode. Great interaction and I believe that Justin Breuning has really come into his own as the Michael Knight character. At first, I didn't like him all that much - I didn't think he had as much charisma as Hasselhoff - but like all new things, it takes time to get into a groove and Justin has brought so much to the new character of Michael Knight. I love it.

Overall, I liked the balance between all of the characters - Sarah, Zoey, Billy, and Mike. I also really liked the bar characters - great actors, all of them. It really worked for me and as I said before, I forgot that I was watching an episode of Knight Rider - there was no campiness to take me out of the immersion. Major props to the girl who played the bar owner - she was great and played her character very well.

The sideways turbo boost kind of snapped me out of the immersion and made me remember "Oh, yeah, this is Knight Rider..." but it was a well-done scene. I also didn't notice KI3T screaming....and honestly, I don't think he'd sound like that, but....well, I don't know. I'll just accept it, but I'd hope that we don't see that again. The first time I watched, I thought Mike said the "scream like a girl" line just for the hell of it, which I thought was pretty funny in its own right.

KI3T using a minigun in Normal Mode made me question - I thought his weapons were only available in Attack Mode. While it makes sense that he could logically use his nanotech to deploy anything at any time, it seemed a little weird....like they broke a guideline or something. I'd like to see more guidelines in place for what KI3T can and can't do in certain modes. However, if this is an indication that they will scrap the Attack Mode, that's fine with me.

I kind of wish that the dual miniguns had popped up like before - even though the car was in a different mode, it would have given the weapons system a bit more coherency. If a single was necessary, I would rather have seen it emerge from one side of the hood instead of the middle. However, the single minigun did look really cool, so I'll let it slide. Really think that they need guidelines for this, though.

The thugs trying to steal KI3T - awesome. I don't think that they needed to actually get in and drive him - it wouldn't have made any sense. Additionally, the thugs actually advanced the storyline, so major props there as well.

The KI3T driving scenes through the street, while being chased by the SUVS, were really nice to see. Loved it.

Overall, I really liked everything about this episode. The writing was excellent and I really appreciated how all of the elements in the show actually served a purpose and advanced the plot. The acting was excellent on all parts and all of the new characters were very believable. This is definitely an episode that I'll watch again.

Edit: Victor, I didn't get a chance to read your entire post but I will. (I got the post review thing because you submitted your post as I was submitting mine.)The thieves did serve a plotline purpose; they ignited the methane gas with a blowtorch by accident, which led to an answer for the fires. I will address more later when I have the time.

Edit 2: Gah! Again?
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by DrWho2005 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:53 pm

why did Hot Blonde keep calling him ' Michael ' ?

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by honnziva » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:59 pm

VK....

I honestly have no idea how you came up with such a lengthy dissertation on a one hour episode of a show that had so many problems!

I for one, have always taken your criticism of the series with a grain of salt, because i know how closely you are attached to the original series, and of course having a personal relationship with glen, you may be inclined to not like the series to begin with... but mannnn... lol there is soooo much you really do not like, which is fine by me, because we all are entitled to our opinions... i guess what im saying is...some of the hokey things you don't like.. are the things that endeared the original series to me so much... seeing kitt spray the C02 was to me something that would be a direct throwback...

i expect things to be unbelievable... and to say that the turbo boost sideways was just totally improbable, well you're right it is... but all turbo boost is improbable short of an explosion... unless someone else knows a way that the turbo boost would work somehow in reality.. please let me know,

The cgi/effect shots are what draw the new generation in, they won't just buy into things because tv and movies now a days do not allow for the mystify effect....

either way, i enjoyed reading your words!

and i dont know why they didnt promote the final ep... maybe saving to promote next week... who knows
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by FLAGCEO » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:12 pm

Let me first say that I did really enjoy this episode, and it really did have the feeling of TOS. I did like the sideways turbo boost, but always had a bit of a problem of turbo boost-ing from a stopped position (the last time we saw that was in the season premier - when KITT changed to attack mode for the first time in the parking lot). I'm over it now, and enjoy the tubro boosts as much as the next guy.

I still think that "Exit Light, Enter Knight" and "Fly by Knight" were far better episodes. The first 12 episodes (including KARR) were horrible, and the last 4 have been incredible - including this episode.

:good:

I must say, however, I did NOT like KITT's "scream" - if that's what it really was supposed to be. KITT has been in many other unpredictable moments, and as Knight4Life mentioned, they wouldn't have KITT laugh or cry, I hope (he certainly didn't cry when telling Sarah about Graiman's death).

By the way, as for the bumbling burglars, there were other episodes of TOS (aside from Knight of the Phoenix) that had burglers, including Trust Don't Rust - who stole KARR, and still other episodes of people trying to get into KI2T (and we'd see the door locking mechanism with the LEDs under the door handle), and KI2T driving away. It's not something unusual to the series, and I think it was very well placed in this episode. Plus I actually LIKED how it led to the discovery of the methane pool thing.

One thing I just realized though... In the opening, Mike talks about Sonny's Bar as the place where he and his "dad" shared their first beer, and Sarah mentions that this was where Mike's dad and his dad shared their first beer. Hang on a sec - isn't Mike's dad Michael Knight (aka the Hoff)? In the pilot, if I remember, Mike grew up WITHOUT a father. The whole sentimental value for Mike gets shot down when we make this connection. It's not like they've ignored that connection to the pilot - Mike has referred to his "dad" in past episodes, referring to Michael Knight (Sr.). They need to be careful of these things, because us die-hard fans will pick up on them.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Knight2000 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:18 pm

FINALLY!

We get a carchase! I have been aching for one of these since the series began.

Loved the ep. Almost classic KR right the way through. Still not happy with the Billy/Zoe thing but at least they managed to work together and sort out the problem. Didn't really need to see people trying to break into KI3T, was a bit OTT in the ways they did it, and I didn't understand why they would want to torch open a car - it would just wreck it!

How the hell did the SSC talk to Mike on the TV. There was no camera on the tv yet everyone responded as though there was. Bit still loved it, good goofy ol' fun.

Lexicon wrote:He should have said "Just a guy trying to make a difference."

+1. Would have made the fans happy.
CJaguar442 wrote:I love how K.I.T.T. was screaming

Not a fan of that, though I can understand if it was a soundclip from a show KI3T had been watching. Bit like Johnny5 and the tarzan scream.

coverdale10 wrote:but there are never any big finishes so the episodes end up being anticlimactic

Completely agree. At least in TOS, there was some kind of climactic ending, be it a car chase, a punch up, a turbo boost or all three!

knighttrider3k wrote:ki2t tubro boost genenerates from his exsuast but no one knows

I thought the accepted working theory was that KITT had a directional turbo-booster that could point downwards for jumping, point backwards for faster speed, or forwards for help with braking.

goldbug wrote:ctually it lacked almost every element that people complained about in the first 9 episodes including:
  • Unnecessary transformations.
  • Billy and Zoe serving no purpose other than to rib each other.
  • Sarah running out into the field to save/help Mike.
  • KITT not showing enough emotion.
  • Lack of turbo boost.
  • Bad FX for the scenes inside car cabins.
  • Unnecessary T&A (heck, the bartenders and club attendees were dressed downright conservative compared to bars I've been to).
  • Loads of time spent watching KITT launch out of the SCC while tons of techs mill about doing lord-knows-what.

Which is why I enjoyed it so much.

Knight4life wrote:In the very first episode KITT gets on fire and is brought back to SSC to extinguish it.In this episode it is equipped with full fledged Extinguishers(hard to believe).

1. The extinguishers were directional - they could only work by pointing forwards, so would be ineffective at extinguishing KI3T. Try poking your tongue out of your mouth and lick your back. Same principle.
2. It's highly conceivable that KI3T had this added as an upgrade after the first incident and that it may be possible to extend the extinguishers onto robot-arms using nanotech to extinguish the whole shell.

Victor Kros wrote:Case in point I get the whole "scanners" thing, yet I found it interesting that KITT's almighty technology could not scan up to a certain distance which forced Michael to have to get out on foot and scan the rest of the way.

I thought that KI3T couldn't actually travel any further because it was a pedestrianised area. He follows Mike but not all the way. Besides, KITT also had limitations where MK needed to intervene.

Victor Kros wrote:Secondly the gun came out of the CENTER of the hood of KITT where as last week they came out of the side corners of the hood. What are there three guns under there then?

I just figured the nanotech means KI3T can open panels in the shell wherever's convenient and poke a gun out. Not a fan of the guns though.

Victor Kros wrote:Why didn't KITT race up to protect Mike without being "told" to do it? Classic KITT would race to Michael's aid the moment danger was detected -- yet this KITT despite the progress made last week is still being "told" what to do.

Even KITT would sometimes need to be summoned by MK via the comlink. However, I agree it does seem like a backward step compared to last week's ep.

Victor Kros wrote:if your bar is sitting on highly flammable gases, all the nostalgia in the world isn't going to stop it from some day burning down in fireball of chaos that will no doubt kill everyone in said bar and result in said lawsuits that will close said bar if said bar isn't destroyed in the process --- yes real logic at work here folks.

+1. They could have at least sold the place and with the profits, opened up another Sonny's elsewhere.
Victor Kros wrote:I still didn't understand how the fires were started in the first place. Was it spontanous releases of methane that just randomly caught on fire

This is what I understood was happening, but it could have been made clearer.

Victor Kros wrote:Then there's the "everyone from Mike's past comes to visit him" angle. Really? How long is this going to keep happening where you have to seperate "Mike Traceur" and his gang o' friends from "Michael Knight" the man who isn't supposed to exist? Yet it seems like every other episode or so there is someone (in the reboot now?) that asks for Mike's help or knows him in some way or another from his "early days".

Without a facial change, it's never going to realistically work.


Victor Kros wrote:I liked the black guy (sorry I'm bad with names) but I didn't quite understand his point of setting the fire. I understand he wanted to be a hero and all but it didn't seem to fit with his profile of being a pacifiest "bouncer". Setting a fire, no matter the reason behind it is a destructive/violent act.

I figured he was trying to grow some balls. If everyone saw him a hero, no one would see him as a wimp.

Victor Kros wrote:I still don't get the Michael/Sarah relationship and I'm really sick of the on again off again drama of it. It's getting as bad as Clark and Lana on Smallville.

Oh God! The whole Lana/Clark thing was one of the reasons I stopped watching Smallville. I hope it doesn't wreck this show too.

As for the last episode, this is where the "poison" plot would have worked really well.
Last edited by Knight2000 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Mr.Marcus » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:21 pm

I don't recall classic KITT ever running up to and protecting Michael without being told to do so. Michael would almost always say "KITT I need you buddy" "KITT!!" followed by "Right away Michael" or "KITT I need you pal" I'm starting to think some people are idealizing TOS a little too much.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by NeoRanger » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:30 pm

FLAGCEO wrote:One thing I just realized though... In the opening, Mike talks about Sonny's Bar as the place where he and his "dad" shared their first beer, and Sarah mentions that this was where Mike's dad and his dad shared their first beer. Hang on a sec - isn't Mike's dad Michael Knight (aka the Hoff)? In the pilot, if I remember, Mike grew up WITHOUT a father. The whole sentimental value for Mike gets shot down when we make this connection. It's not like they've ignored that connection to the pilot - Mike has referred to his "dad" in past episodes, referring to Michael Knight (Sr.). They need to be careful of these things, because us die-hard fans will pick up on them.


I noticed that some folks over at the NBC board were also confused with that. But it's not a hole; Mike didn't say "my dad". He said "your dad", talking to Sarah. He was referring to Charles, who more-or-less raised him with Sarah and his mother.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by krfan1 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:45 pm

I also noticed the extending of the gun barrels. For me, the big question is: Where do you store all that hardware under the hood (guns and ammo)? Since it's escapism entertainment to me, I don't get too hung up on it, but I still wonder. :)


Victor Kros wrote:Why didn't KITT race up to protect Mike without being "told" to do it? Classic KITT would race to Michael's aid the moment danger was detected -- yet this KITT despite the progress made last week is still being "told" what to do.


I disagree.


"Burial Ground"
Why does KITT wait to be told to come get Michael outside the prison hut when he could've crashed through the compound, freed him, Dr. Tanner and his assistant in a matter of seconds (KITT could do 0-60 in .3 seconds I believe) like in the pilot ep?

"Out of the Woods" KITT fails to inform Michael of the pickup approaching the house with a lit explosive. KITT also has to be told to "get to the back porch!"

"Many Happy Returns" Why doesn't KITT automatically put a surveillance lock on the villans' car and unlock the storage room door instead of waiting to be told to do so (after Kleist locks Michael & Amy inside)?

Asking why didn't KI3T react after last week's ep is a valid question. Saying KITT always made his own decisions, and came to the rescue in times of need seems inaccurate.


TOS scripts had problems as well, in my opinion:

"Many Happy Returns" Why does KITT sound like he admits defeat when the hovercraft make water?
KITT says "Michael, I'm afraid the hovercraft is going to make open sea."
"We still got one chance KITT"
and fires the grappling hook. Why didn't KITT say "We have a 42% chance if we use the grappling hook?"

"Knights of the Fast Lane" The end when they are racing in the cliffs, KITT advises against Micro Jamming the brakes since they might go off the cliff (never mind they would've drove off the cliff had they not done that)
KITT If you try it, you could kill them!"
Mike "If I don't try, they'll go right over the cliff!"

While I know the argument of 'preservation of human life' factors in, the preservation part seemed greater with Michael's idea rather than to let Taylor run the car off the cliff. Since KITT had scanned the road ahead, he should've known that the road was going to dead end.

Many times KITT would inform Michael an obstruction was ahead, but wouldn't say if it was clear to Turbo Boost until asked. Don't you think KITT should've informed Michael right away (since after a certain point, KITT should know Michael likes to Turbo Boost)?

I feel that neither TOS or KR08 are perfect, but I have enjoyed (and hope to) continue enjoying new eps of KR08!
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by krfan1 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:54 pm

I did not hear the scream, but will pay close attention when I rewatch the episode. I will say KI3T's scream is as lame as in "Sky Knight" having KITT be afraid of flying. Why did Bonnie program that into him?
Bonnie: "It's not KITT's fault he's afraid of flying, he was programmed to."
Michael: "Ah, but YOU were the programmer!"

Even at a young age, that really irked me.

To reply to VK's point on the bar logic, if you start factoring in 'logic' just forget about KR completely. As has been discussed a while back, many things Michael/KITT did to gather evidence was illegal and would not hold up in court.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by msKEN » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:20 pm

krfan1 wrote: many things Michael/KITT did to gather evidence was illegal and would not hold up in court.

krfan1


I thought that was the point of Michael and KITT? To step in where local law enforcement would fail... kinda bend the rules to save and protect the innocent from people who op.... meh nevermind. :lol:
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by cazman101 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:47 pm

I thought it was a good episode once again the new format sits well with me and there were many things in the ep that made me laugh. There seemed to be some great KR moments that I thought wre well done. I didn't have a problem with the sideways Turbo Boost I just looked at it as a larger blast from the Ski mode. "Kitt you scream like a girl" had me in pain with laughter. The Billy/Zoe relationship worked, Sarah had an easy week but thats fine. Great car action with the car chase I would have liked it to have been a little longer but that doesn't matter. Not sure why the gun came out the middle instead of one either side but then i don't like the idea of KITT with a gun especially when he's already armed with a high power laser. So i would take KITT in for an upgrade and have the guns taken out to use the space for something else. All in all I had a good time watching it. :D

Oh one final thought.... All that grill in the front and the CO2 came out of the headlights.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by DJGM » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:11 pm

I'm surprised no-one else noticed a certain something in the sideways flip turbo boost . . .

Image

The chrome underside with the Knight Research logo is gone! Although, it seems KITT's
mad scream was enough of a distraction for most people not to notice that one of the
most complained about parts of KITT's outer shell is has been removed.

Unless this was an oversight, and KITT's chrome underside is back in the season finale.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Milkman » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:16 pm

This was great. They are really getting back to what Knight Rider is all about, with a new version twist. I know that it will have to be a little different, and I am now ok with it.

GREAT episodes. Hope they keep up like this!

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by lunchmeat » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:02 pm

Victor Kros wrote:Boy seriously you people are easy to please and that's ok. I for one found this episode very lacking in several ways. It wasn't a "bad" episode as say the first 9 or so but it wasn't as spectacular as people make it out to be either. It was another step down from the previous episode.


Dude...you think too much. Reading through your post, I think that you make some valid points, but I don't see how you can enjoy any TV show if you overthink the scenes.

I don't know. Maybe that's a consequence of your profession - you are the one making the Knight Rider movie, no? So maybe you catch the things we don't, or maybe they mean more to you. Perhaps we are easier to please because we can let ourselves be immersed in the moment.

The Turbo Boost, come on are you serious? Yeah its cool and all if you thought the movie Speed Racer was not only fun but realistic. I agree that this "jump" which is more of a "flip" defied all measures of logic but I have come to expect this from this show so like many of you, I just "roll with it". You look at Knight to Kings Pawn during the battle with KARRE and you see similair gravity defying logic.


You mention the sideways turbo boost defying logic. I cannot agree with that. Whenever you watch a show like this, you create your own logic. You were apparently able to justify the turbo boost in TOS, which had no real explanation for it working - the car magically jumped. The logic you created allowed you to enjoy the moment. KR08 requires the same suspension of disbelief for viewers to enjoy it.

How about KITT's gatling gun? Yet another reason to show off visual effects for the sake of eye candy. First and foremost I don't believe he fired off 4000 rounds or whatever and at what? Did it look like there was 4000 bullet holes in the bridge? Secondly the gun came out of the CENTER of the hood of KITT where as last week they came out of the side corners of the hood. What are there three guns under there then? Or is this another example of the mystical "nanotech" magically conjuring up more gear out of thin air? You notice that unlike last week's guns, this one also had an extending barrel? I bet you could have trimmed some money off the ol budget here with a more creative solution than whipping out the big CG gun to squeek through another scene.


You nitpick the gatling gun and the bullet holes. KI3T fired at the bridge for a few seconds, and then we saw the bridge. Did you notice that KI3T kept firing after we saw the bridge? What we saw was a shot of the first few bullets hitting the bridge after KI3T fired - we did not see the scenes in real time. (Otherwise, we'd have missed Mike running to the car; the entire sequence took more than 7 seconds.) This is another hallmark of TV that requires suspension of disbelief.

I do agree with the gatling gun in the center - it's a valid point. I would have liked to see it off to the side for the sake of continuity. And as for the extending barrel and "where everything came from", yes, it's the nanotech. Look up molecular assemblers and nanotech assemblers - it's a valid subject and it's been popular in sci-fi for a long time.

The CO2 bit? Classic Knight Rider for sure but do we have to see special tubes coming out of the headlights and all that? Is it really necessary to say you know, shooting out the CO2 from under the car? This is yet another reason to show off visual effects that didn't need to be there. I wonder just how much that little bit costs to create.


The CO2 - think about TOS, and how they showed Michael hitting the button before Turbo Boost. It's the same concept here, only for a different application. It's easier than explaining to new fans that KI3T has CO2 emitters under his chassis - and it's also quicker. Additionally, someone out there would have questioned how KI3T could spray CO2 from under his chassis if he's got the kickplate under there. I believe they took the right route on this one.

I had trouble following the story at times. I understand the bit with the car thieves being a nod back to Knight of the Phoenix but the problem here is they didn't go anywhere. At least in the pilot as other members pointed out, the thieves stole KITT and were taught a lesson. Here they're just horrendously incompetent comedy relief.

I guess you could debate well they were there to reveal the whole "methane" connection but I still don't understand how this even matters? Why didn't KITT detect this sooner? Isn't KITT consistantly scanning around to help out Mike?


The thugs served their purpose. They were comic relief and they contributed to the story. As for why KI3T didn't detect the methane concentration around the place? I don't know. There may not be a logical explanation for that (except that methane is generally harmless and is a component of natural gas, so perhaps KI3T didn't scan it or ignored it) but I enjoyed the plot arc.

Case in point I get the whole "scanners" thing, yet I found it interesting that KITT's almighty technology could not scan up to a certain distance which forced Michael to have to get out on foot and scan the rest of the way. It just seemed to give KITT even more limitations than he really needs.


The scanners....from what we saw, this was a new sniffer program uploaded to KI3T from the SSC. I got the impression that Mike started to go on foot because the trail led into a building - but he didn't end up going inside. I think that's why KI3T suggested that Mike continue on foot. I could be wrong....but I think that in this case, the limitations are set because this was a program uploaded into KI3T.

That's all well and good and I can understand being stubborn but if your bar is sitting on highly flammable gases, all the nostalgia in the world isn't going to stop it from some day burning down in fireball of chaos that will no doubt kill everyone in said bar and result in said lawsuits that will close said bar if said bar isn't destroyed in the process --- yes real logic at work here folks.


Again, dude, thinking WAYY too much. It's a happy ending! Go with it. If you must have your explanation, remember that the fires were a recent thing, implying that they didn't happen before the interference from the "bad guys". Maybe it won't happen again. Maybe it will. But really, I'll call this for what it is - a major nitpick. ;-)

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well may be here) but I only remember Mike using the name "Michael Knight" in what was supposed to be the season finale. It seems like it's an alias that he only uses with government agents, or people who ask him for his full name. Generally, as far as I've seen, he just goes by Mike.

Then there's the "everyone from Mike's past comes to visit him" angle. Really? How long is this going to keep happening where you have to seperate "Mike Traceur" and his gang o' friends from "Michael Knight" the man who isn't supposed to exist? Yet it seems like every other episode or so there is someone (in the reboot now?) that asks for Mike's help or knows him in some way or another from his "early days".


I agree that it is a little weird with the whole Traceur/Knight thing - and really, I wish they'd just stuck with Traceur and reintroduced the "Knight" surname a little ways after FLAG was introduced - because I personally like the stories where an old friend knows Mike. I loved the character interaction between Mike and Julie (I think that was her name) and that wouldn't have been possible if they didn't know each other.

I dislike the continued introduction of slang that shouldn't be taught in a tv show geared towards "children" -- really do you need to teach your kids what "hoochies" means did you cover "douche" yet? how about "assclown"?


I no longer believe that this is geared toward children. If anything, it's geared toward teens and adults now, as are most network shows after 8:00.

Overall, I respect your opinions, and I think that you have some valid points. I just don't agree with many of them. Note that although I might come across as a bit overbearing, I mean no disrespect to you by any of the things I've said.

A television show of this nature is about suspending disbelief; this is why TOS worked, and it's why KR08 will work. I don't know about you, but I personally tune in to Knight Rider to have a good time and escape reality a little bit. It's a fun show! When we were younger, we tuned into TOS for the same reasons. You say that KR08 is now "mindless entertainment" - I ask you, then, what was TOS?
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Rockatteer » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:59 pm

Now that is what Knight Rider 08 should be like!!!

Loved it. Great to see Kitt busting through things and being indestructible when those guys where trying to break into him. Very old school.

If the show stays like this, I'll be a happy man.

Only think I didn't like was Kitt screaming with the turbo boost. that was so not right and I hope they never do it again.

But otherwise Knight Rider has finally hit the mark! :D
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Lost Knight » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:26 pm

This was one of the better episodes of the series, albeit not perfect. K.I.T.T. using the CO2 was a great throwback to the original series, as was the running gag of the two car thieves trying to steal K.I.T.T. which was directly from "Knight Of the Phoenix." I even liked the bands in the club as this episode was an obvious plug for them. The sideways turbo boost was interesting and kind of odd at the same time, as it would have been a great opportunity to do it right for once, but instead they chose to try something new. It was kind of cool and we actually got to see K.I.T.T. launch off the ground, which helps the overall illusion.

However, I have two major complaints. One was the use of alternative/punk music during the chase scene. They finally put a chase scene in there and the music ended up making it seem like it was a joke. This would have been an ideal time to use some great and more serious musical scoring to help the tone of the action. The same thing was done in the backdoor pilot when K.I.T.T. was being chased down the winding road and I didn't like the music choices then, either. My second complaint is that it felt like there was NO CLIMAX. My feeling at the end of the episode was "it's over already?" I thought the pacing was decent but things kind of fell apart toward the end.

Other than those quibbles, it was an OK episode, but they STILL haven't nailed it which is frustrating because they're closer than ever to doing so.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Rockatteer » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:47 pm

What's up with the green scanners?

The old Kitt could do all that with his normal red scanner... What the hell?

Although it did look kewl.. just didn't seem right.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by NeoRanger » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:56 pm

DJGM wrote:The chrome underside with the Knight Research logo is gone! Although, it seems KITT's
mad scream was enough of a distraction for most people not to notice that one of the
most complained about parts of KITT's outer shell is has been removed.

Unless this was an oversight, and KITT's chrome underside is back in the season finale.

Remember- KITT was in normal mode this time around. The chrome bottom with the (blacked-out?) KR logo is only in Attack Mode.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by The-Knight-2000 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:03 pm

Its been a long time since I logged in (although i have lurked without doing so, and so long since that i had to wade through about 500 pages of email inbox to find my login information after the site kindly informed me that i couldnt register as my email addy was already being used :good: ) and i think this is my first time posting. Having just watched the episode, and read through all 5 pages of discussion, I think that there are a few things that people are forgetting:

Lost Knight it was an OK episode, but they STILL haven't nailed it which is frustrating because they're closer than ever to doing so.


If i recall correctly, this was originally meant to be the first post reboot episode. taking that into account, the quality has improved and they have nailed it, because the last few episodes have been fantastic, and really turned the whole series around.

With that in mind, I feel i have to address people who have quibbled over the gatling gun being in the center and not off to the sides etc and how its not following continuity. This has probably been said before, but the original series didnt always keep in mind things theyd done before. Secondly, as I said, i think this was originally supposed to be the first post reboot episode - while the re-order did help, especially with the bank episode, this was obviously meant to come before that episode, as the SSC is still plunged in darkness (bar the KITTcave) for the most part, and they're only just moving in new furniture. This is in contrast with previous episodes having the furniture in place (Exit Light Enter Knight) and even with last weeks episode (Fly by Knight) where the power is back on through out the SSC.

When KITT uses the gatling gun in this episode, he notes that he only has 8000 rounds, and that it will be exhausted in 7 seconds, to which Mike replies that he's "sure Sarah can fix it."
Had they remained in the original order with this episode being before Fly by Knight, can I suggest that Sarah had fixed it, and perhaps relocated/added an additional gun?

Of course, with the re-order that would be invalidated but still... it seems like it would be a reasonable and logical assumption given the original episode order.

Overall, good episode, despite KITT's scream... what the heck was that about?

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Rainack » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:26 pm

This was an AWESOME episode.

While I did find it weird that KI3T screamed during the sideways TB, I was rolling at how funny it was. I LOVED that sideways TB! That was the best part of the whole episode, in my opinion.

I did think though, that KI3T and Mike should have just floored it and left those SUVs in their dust. They could have done that with no problem, even in normal mode.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Tony P Knight Driver » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:55 pm

Awsome Episode!!
Loved it real old school Knight Rider.
right down to this.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Victor Kros » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:30 pm

lunchmeat wrote:
Victor Kros wrote:Boy seriously you people are easy to please and that's ok. I for one found this episode very lacking in several ways. It wasn't a "bad" episode as say the first 9 or so but it wasn't as spectacular as people make it out to be either. It was another step down from the previous episode.


Dude...you think too much. Reading through your post, I think that you make some valid points, but I don't see how you can enjoy any TV show if you overthink the scenes.

- What's to over think? The fundamental structure of good writing is having answers for the who, what, where, when, why, and how. If these questions are not answered it causes plot holes and other problems. I would expect a show that is striving to be a hit to better address these problem areas "as the series goes along" and in some ways they have while in other ways they just do what they want to do and expect the audience to just "go with it."

I don't know. Maybe that's a consequence of your profession - you are the one making the Knight Rider movie, no? So maybe you catch the things we don't, or maybe they mean more to you. Perhaps we are easier to please because we can let ourselves be immersed in the moment.

- I'm not making the movie, Glen A. Larson wrote the script and I happen to think given his track record of successful television series, his ideas are more structurely sound than what has been presented with respects to the Knight Rider property today. He knew what worked then, he knows what works now. Ask yourself why Knight Rider can't get the ratings it keeps shooting for week after week. If it was getting better the ratings should have recovered from said "slump", instead its been on life support.

The Turbo Boost, come on are you serious? Yeah its cool and all if you thought the movie Speed Racer was not only fun but realistic. I agree that this "jump" which is more of a "flip" defied all measures of logic but I have come to expect this from this show so like many of you, I just "roll with it". You look at Knight to Kings Pawn during the battle with KARRE and you see similair gravity defying logic.


You mention the sideways turbo boost defying logic. I cannot agree with that. Whenever you watch a show like this, you create your own logic. You were apparently able to justify the turbo boost in TOS, which had no real explanation for it working - the car magically jumped. The logic you created allowed you to enjoy the moment. KR08 requires the same suspension of disbelief for viewers to enjoy it.

- There's something more believable about a car going off a ramp in a straight line than there is doing a sideways flip and landing perfectly unharmed.Granted KITT is nearly invulnerable and I already pointed out this turbo "flip" didn't bother me as much given the action in the KARRE battle before --- still it doesn't logically work and even in the original Knight Rider for the most parts you saw a jump you didn't sit there and think "that's not even possible" because it had enough realism to sell it as a probable impossiblity, not a improbable one like transforming nano-tech.

When it comes to story there are two scenrios that can make or break a movie. The probable impossiblity like say a flying DeLorean in the Back to the Future movies -- you know it can't fly, it can't go back in time, but you have such an engaging story and solid visual design that you suspend disbelief and go with the idea it can do what Doc Brown says it can do.

Then you have the improbable possiblity. This is mostly in romance movies where a guy hard on his luck just so happens to find a lottery ticket that grants him millions of dollars while running into the woman of his dreams while getting caught in a meteor shower (like in Armageddon perhaps) that all of a sudden burns up the very same lottery ticket and injurs the woman he loves. He tries to get in a car but the battery is dead. Two seconds after he gets out of the car, it explodes for whatever reason. As the guy runs down the street a plane crashes into a building, gas manes break, then it starts raining to put all the fires out. It just goes on and on.

This is what you call the coincidental scenerio, which tends to then fall into the realm of predictability and cliches. While some cliches work, more often than not in an impossible probability you know something can't work, you don't understand how it can work, and yet you decide that for the sake of the storyline you just suspend your disbelief even though everything you see as the plot moves along raises red flags of things that simply don't make any sense or are just too easily given or encountered.

Trust me, this latter scenerio is more common than people think and it has a tendency to tank movies at the box office and shows on television for that matter. The probable impossiblity is what leads to blockbuster movies and consequent "successful" sequels. I would call Transformers a probable impossibility because the aliens are machines and the machines mimic our technology --- we believe that its possible for these robots to disguise themselves into vehicles because it is realistically (for the most part compared to the cartoon) depicted how its possible even though at the end of the day it's alien technology, not our own.


How about KITT's gatling gun? Yet another reason to show off visual effects for the sake of eye candy. First and foremost I don't believe he fired off 4000 rounds or whatever and at what? Did it look like there was 4000 bullet holes in the bridge? Secondly the gun came out of the CENTER of the hood of KITT where as last week they came out of the side corners of the hood. What are there three guns under there then? Or is this another example of the mystical "nanotech" magically conjuring up more gear out of thin air? You notice that unlike last week's guns, this one also had an extending barrel? I bet you could have trimmed some money off the ol budget here with a more creative solution than whipping out the big CG gun to squeek through another scene.


You nitpick the gatling gun and the bullet holes. KI3T fired at the bridge for a few seconds, and then we saw the bridge. Did you notice that KI3T kept firing after we saw the bridge? What we saw was a shot of the first few bullets hitting the bridge after KI3T fired - we did not see the scenes in real time. (Otherwise, we'd have missed Mike running to the car; the entire sequence took more than 7 seconds.) This is another hallmark of TV that requires suspension of disbelief.

- So what? This doesn't change my point.

I do agree with the gatling gun in the center - it's a valid point. I would have liked to see it off to the side for the sake of continuity. And as for the extending barrel and "where everything came from", yes, it's the nanotech. Look up molecular assemblers and nanotech assemblers - it's a valid subject and it's been popular in sci-fi for a long time.

-Still not how nanotech is supposed to work and I have been over the whole nanotech vs Transformers technology debate too many times to get into it all again. The bottom line, impossible probability you're expected to just "go with" and if you go with it and you find it "cool" then all the better -- the show does it job to entertain you.

The CO2 bit? Classic Knight Rider for sure but do we have to see special tubes coming out of the headlights and all that? Is it really necessary to say you know, shooting out the CO2 from under the car? This is yet another reason to show off visual effects that didn't need to be there. I wonder just how much that little bit costs to create.


The CO2 - think about TOS, and how they showed Michael hitting the button before Turbo Boost. It's the same concept here, only for a different application. It's easier than explaining to new fans that KI3T has CO2 emitters under his chassis - and it's also quicker. Additionally, someone out there would have questioned how KI3T could spray CO2 from under his chassis if he's got the kickplate under there. I believe they took the right route on this one.

- Needless CG was my point and I'm sticking to it. It's about as useless to me as KITT being on fire in the pilot episode (not the backdoor pilot) and being unable to put himself out or put the A/C inside the cabin of the car. Just doesn't make sense other than the old loophole "it happens this way because it's in the script."

I had trouble following the story at times. I understand the bit with the car thieves being a nod back to Knight of the Phoenix but the problem here is they didn't go anywhere. At least in the pilot as other members pointed out, the thieves stole KITT and were taught a lesson. Here they're just horrendously incompetent comedy relief.

I guess you could debate well they were there to reveal the whole "methane" connection but I still don't understand how this even matters? Why didn't KITT detect this sooner? Isn't KITT consistantly scanning around to help out Mike?


The thugs served their purpose. They were comic relief and they contributed to the story. As for why KI3T didn't detect the methane concentration around the place? I don't know. There may not be a logical explanation for that (except that methane is generally harmless and is a component of natural gas, so perhaps KI3T didn't scan it or ignored it) but I enjoyed the plot arc.

Case in point I get the whole "scanners" thing, yet I found it interesting that KITT's almighty technology could not scan up to a certain distance which forced Michael to have to get out on foot and scan the rest of the way. It just seemed to give KITT even more limitations than he really needs.


The scanners....from what we saw, this was a new sniffer program uploaded to KI3T from the SSC. I got the impression that Mike started to go on foot because the trail led into a building - but he didn't end up going inside. I think that's why KI3T suggested that Mike continue on foot. I could be wrong....but I think that in this case, the limitations are set because this was a program uploaded into KI3T.

That's all well and good and I can understand being stubborn but if your bar is sitting on highly flammable gases, all the nostalgia in the world isn't going to stop it from some day burning down in fireball of chaos that will no doubt kill everyone in said bar and result in said lawsuits that will close said bar if said bar isn't destroyed in the process --- yes real logic at work here folks.


Again, dude, thinking WAYY too much. It's a happy ending! Go with it. If you must have your explanation, remember that the fires were a recent thing, implying that they didn't happen before the interference from the "bad guys". Maybe it won't happen again. Maybe it will. But really, I'll call this for what it is - a major nitpick. ;-)

- You have your views on what makes a sound happy ending and I have mine.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well may be here) but I only remember Mike using the name "Michael Knight" in what was supposed to be the season finale. It seems like it's an alias that he only uses with government agents, or people who ask him for his full name. Generally, as far as I've seen, he just goes by Mike.

Then there's the "everyone from Mike's past comes to visit him" angle. Really? How long is this going to keep happening where you have to seperate "Mike Traceur" and his gang o' friends from "Michael Knight" the man who isn't supposed to exist? Yet it seems like every other episode or so there is someone (in the reboot now?) that asks for Mike's help or knows him in some way or another from his "early days".


I agree that it is a little weird with the whole Traceur/Knight thing - and really, I wish they'd just stuck with Traceur and reintroduced the "Knight" surname a little ways after FLAG was introduced - because I personally like the stories where an old friend knows Mike. I loved the character interaction between Mike and Julie (I think that was her name) and that wouldn't have been possible if they didn't know each other.

I dislike the continued introduction of slang that shouldn't be taught in a tv show geared towards "children" -- really do you need to teach your kids what "hoochies" means did you cover "douche" yet? how about "assclown"?


I no longer believe that this is geared toward children. If anything, it's geared toward teens and adults now, as are most network shows after 8:00.

- Finally someone agrees.

Overall, I respect your opinions, and I think that you have some valid points. I just don't agree with many of them. Note that although I might come across as a bit overbearing, I mean no disrespect to you by any of the things I've said.

- Overbearing and disagreeing isn't being disrespectful and I respect your opinion and your right to disagree with me. Everyone has a different way of viewing things and I find it intriguing to explore those viewpoints and see who does or does not agree with how I perceive things.

A television show of this nature is about suspending disbelief; this is why TOS worked, and it's why KR08 will work. I don't know about you, but I personally tune in to Knight Rider to have a good time and escape reality a little bit. It's a fun show! When we were younger, we tuned into TOS for the same reasons. You say that KR08 is now "mindless entertainment" - I ask you, then, what was TOS?


- TOS was in a single word, "tangible." This show is not. If you have to continue to suspend disbelief in order to buy into the logic of advanced nanotech effects, if you have to look past glaring plot holes, if you have to just "go with" things more than freely accept them as possible, that is mindless entertainment and that is a choice you make. It's not a question of what choice is right or wrong, it's the simple matter that you decide what works for you and in NBC's case, you keep watching.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:41 pm

It was a great episode,even if it was lacking a climax,or wasn't realistic enough.I could write a full review,but all it would do is echo what everyone else thought.The writers still need to put a little more effort into the writing though, but it's getting a lot better! :good:
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by weeezl » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:04 am

Victor Kros wrote:
- TOS was in a single word, "tangible." This show is not. If you have to continue to suspend disbelief in order to buy into the logic of advanced nanotech effects, if you have to look past glaring plot holes, if you have to just "go with" things more than freely accept them as possible, that is mindless entertainment and that is a choice you make. It's not a question of what choice is right or wrong, it's the simple matter that you decide what works for you and in NBC's case, you keep watching.

=VK=
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Lol even TOS wasn't tangible, when I was a kid watching and Kitt used one of his mystic functions (magically opening hand-cuffs for example) I was like "yeah riiiiiggghhhtttt" ummm....that said, now I'm older I believe it more, go figure? :)

I'm quite happy to watch mindless TV like that, it doesn't mean I am mindless. The way I look at it is " brain switch off time" I just go with it and enjoy the ride, yeah sometimes I have the odd "whaaatttt?" moment but all in all its escapism and for me thats a good thing. Sometimes day to day strife is so unbearable that its nice have a break from it, even if its just for an hour at time. Oh that a nice cold beer or two :)

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight and the City

Post by Ontario Knight » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:17 am

Tony P Knight Driver wrote:Awsome Episode!!
Loved it real old school Knight Rider.
right down to this.
plate.gif


Man I love it when a plan comes together!!


Absolutely California KNIGHT needs to make a comeback....

Even cooler if they actually used the KNIGHT plate with the blue backing like in TOS for the new car...

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