KITT vs KARR-start to finish

[KITTFAN2003]

[color=red]Hi everyone

In "Trust doesn't rust" we clearly see KARR distroyed That's why the whole "KITT Vs KARR" episode and story line is a bit of a stretch. There is no way that KARR could've been rebuilt then buried in the sand on the beach at the start of "KITT vs KARR"

Second, how did KARR get personlized license plates [color=red][/color][/color]

The foundation would NOT have been so careless as toleave KARR on a beach where anyone could discover him

What were the writers of this episode thinking

Robin

[Rockatteer]

What were the writers of this episode thinking

I think the writers of KR where regularly stoned out of their minds… either that or they where never paid enough to care.

how did KARR get personlized license plates

What do you mean by Karrs personalized plates? He's always had the KARR plate at the back...where there others?

I think the general idea of Kitt vs Karr is that we never actually saw Karr explode at the end of TDR. So he was "knocked out" and washed up and covered in sand over the years.

Am I right in thinking that there’s a two year gap between TDR and kitt vs karr?

Still doesn't sound like a very believable story line does it.

[KITTFAN2003]

What do you mean by Karrs personalized plates? He's always had the KARR plate at the back...where there others?

If I recall correctly, KARR had the "KNIGHT" plates like KITT does in TDR. Can anyone confirm this

Robin

[youngblood]

What I think is funny is that KARR was all black until after I think it was the 2 commercial break, then he got the trademark gray paint to make him two-tone.
I know he had to get some 'parts' to fix himself, but a new body was clearly not needed.
What bothers me is that they left his parts behind, not to mention his cpu was still working.
Thats why a modern spinoff of that show isnt possible.
We notice those things now. We never thought about them back then.
Its true they werent very organized with this show.
They never even had a schematic for the stunt car and the wiring and parts were just thrown together.

[sofchance]

1. We don't really see KARR destroyed. There was just an explosion; maybe one of KARR's special systems got damaged.

2. Yes, KARR's license plates changed from KNIGHT to KARR.

3. From what I've heard, in the original airing for the episode there was a scene where KARR got the custom body to make himself look more distinct. That scene was probably cut out in the edited version.

And yes, KARR's scanner was red in TDR and yellow in KVK. Some have speculated that this was due to being immersed in sand/salt water.

[Rockatteer]

What I think is funny is that KARR was all black until after I think it was the 2 commercial break, then he got the trademark gray paint to make him two-tone.

If you listen carefully you will hear Karr say "I wish to change my appearance". This line is the explanation to the color change.

Its true they werent very organized with this show.
They never even had a schematic for the stunt car and the wiring and parts were just thrown together.

Yes its very obvious that this show was aimed at the younger viewers who where more interested in the action than the continuity. Hence why we only notice all these mistakes now as adults. I get the impression that they weren’t really worried about what the views noticed or didn't notice, they just did stuff to make the show.

Who knows...That might have been one of the contributing factors for the shows demise.

[knightimmortal]

Nah, all series in the 80's had their continuity problems. Nitpicking wasn't such the art back in the 80's as it is now, and we are only seeing what we see, because we are looking at it in hind sight. Even Star Trek (all incarnations) still have huge continuity problems.

And yeah, in the syndicated versions, the part where KARR states that he wants to change his appearance has been hacked out, but he does make the statement in the original. The continuity left a lot to the imagination, (and a LOT of imagination in some cases.)

Sofchance puts it rather well. We don't see KARR clearly destroyed. It boggles the mind that the Foundation didn't go check.

And I would say that the writers of the episode were looking towards making something very entertaining. They may have even been thinking a lot more completely, because there are cases where some things got hacked out of the script for time constraints. You have to remember that we don't see everything that was supposed to go on, we just see what happens that is pertinent to the storyline, and has the most impact on the watchers.

KI

[CB2001]

Here's something: Maybe the explosion is actually KARR venting out something from his turbine engine in order to cushion his landing a bit.

Just a thought.

[KITTfan]

I've been wondering, since kids of the 80's didn't noticed continuity problems, did adults?
I don't remember my parents telling ever about them or maybe they didn't wanted to spoil my favourite tv show

Well, then again it was another time in the 80's, Knight Rider was on it's first time on tv, it was new, fresh, futuristic and awesome tv-show that no-one noticed any mistakes but just enjoyed it

-KITTfan-

[Rockatteer]

Exactly!

It was new an people liked it, so the mistakes weren't noticed.

[sofchance]

I agree with ya, the show was enjoyable enough that you could look past some of the errors and just have fun watching. Kinda like how no one got shot on "The A-Team" (unless it served a plot point) even though hundreds of bullets were used!

[Garthe Knight]

In TDR Karr had no license plate. When you watch carefully you see the back part is all black (the part where Karr kidnapps bonnie and kitt follows).

In some scenes they used shootages from earlier episodes, where Kitt was seen, so there "Karr" has the typical Knight license plate.

I noticed this earlier so I watched the episode and looked especially for that detail.

[Ghost-Unmade]

There is more to nitpick about in KITT vs. Karr than just the fact that Karr didn't explode (althought thats a good one).

You can explain away his new scanner color by its being bleached by salt water. You can explain away the expolsion by a backfire of his retrorockets; but what I want to know is where did he learn to be so decietful and maniuplative if he had been lying on a beach for two years. Remeber the KARR from TDR? He was primul, unworldly ("I have no eggs can you direct me to a chicken?") Hardly the coniving, smooth talking machine that got John Statton to do whatever it wanted ("just think of me as the genie in the bottle")

And what about the dash? Boy someone was sure nice to come along while KARR was buried, and upgrade his dash from a season 1 to a season 3. complete with black face plate over his voice monitor, which was not there when he went off the cliff.


But more important nitpicks:

How did John Staton acquire the technical know-how to install Bonnie's laser onto KARR?

KARR: "Suppose I removed all the air from the passengers comparment. Have you ever seen anyone explode in a vaccum?"
Well KARR ol' buddy she would have suffocated, but she wouldn't have exploded. (the only way she might have done that is if there had been a vaccum OUTSIDE and KARR roled down the window or something).That whole vaccum explosion mistake is a little embarassing to be made by a super computer.

KARR is always insisting that John press the Turbo Boost, but I know that he can activate it himself; he did it in TDR

Boy those high tensil reflectors shoot up fast!!! Faster than a laser even which is moving at the speed of light!! Either that or Michael had one serious premonition about when KARR was going to fire, and don't tell me he read his body language.


And the big one that bugs me to this day, and even bugged me as a kid!!!

KARR's dramatic final line; "if I am destroyed, so shall you be" This goes directly against his primary function to protect his own life!!! I know he really hated KITT and Michael, but we've seen hundreds of times that KITT can't override his primary function (the protection of human life) be he amnesic, controlled by a bad guy, hallucinating, etc. etc. etc. But now KARR can simply ignore his and risk his own destruction to destroy KITT? And in the same way he couldn't ignore it in TDR? BIG oversite.


The bad part is, I could go on.

Ghost

[knightimmortal]

Hmm, for one, we've already gone on, there is a whole page of Nitpicks for Kitt vs. Karr at http://www.knightridercollective.com/nitpicks.htm

Now, there are some things that some nitpickers get a little too avid for, and neglect natural reaction over.

If you were left for dead, and found yourself buried beneath sand, forgotten, you would be a little vindictive, hateful and ticked off as well, now wouldn't you? AI's are evolutionary computers, they evolve the same way we do to their exterior atmosphere.

KARR's dash, yep, that is hilarious and one heck of a snafu.

John Stanton most likely was told by KARR himself how to install the laser, and the alpha circuits which they went through the semi to get, but never seemed to pick up after they saw the laser, but it was still taken care of.

Actually, a body can be exploded in a vacuum. Specifically when the air is being drawn out in the rush. The blood capillaries will explode as they attempt to follow the path of least resistance with the air being drawn out. It's the giant hickey effect, except there is no stopping the blood blotches when they come to the surface and attempt to try to come to the surface where they are drawn to. Eventually, it ends up a bloody mess, specifically when the oxygen is completely removed, since blood needs oxygen, so yes, depending on how much force KARR decided to suddenly evacuate the air, it is possible to see a body explode in a vacuum.

KARR is like KITT, they need the control of the human to make themselves complete. KITT can run himself too, but he is not instructed to. KARR's whole concept was on purpose, to have his puppet.

The tensil reflectors were definitely a snafu, I kept expecting Michael to bound out of the vehicle in tights and a cape to catch the next shot in his teeth.

And once again, the one that bugged you so much as a kid is also explainable by the mood change. KARR wanted revenge. He knew he was already screwed, and he wanted to exact his final revenge, thinking that he was going to take KITT out with him, since his whole new purpose had shifted from self-preservation to making those who deserted him pay. Once again, think about yourself, how would you feel if you were deserted? In the beginning, you may be thinking about your own self-preservation, but after time, you are slowly reprogrammed (driven mad) into thinking about what you can do to get revenge on those who put you in that position. Even the most docile will be driven to kill if they are tortured enough. A being, that relies on human interaction by his own inner programming is suddenly deserted and left for dead, and they didn't even go back to check to make sure he was dead. Hell yeah he has the right to be ticked off, and his whole purpose is going to be changed. That is a legitimate human reaction, one that translated to an AI that was programmed to mimic human reaction.

KI

[KalEl]

Taken directly from the paperback novel KNIGHT RIDER #2: TRUST DOESN'T RUST written by Steven E. de Souza:

KARR was on top of them. The tourists from
the scenic overlook gawked, anticipating a
spectacular crash.
Bare feet from KITT's front grille, KARR
veered wildly to the right. The sheer power of
diverted motion carried the black car off the
roadway and aimed straight for the middle of
the overlook. Spectators scttered in all direc-
tions. KARR bounced, out of control, and burst
through the retaining wall into space.
The robot voice echoed inside of KITT's
cabin as KITT slid to a panic stop: "I cannot
be destroyed! I am the prototype! The superior
automotive-"
KARR smashed into the cliffside and went
end over end against the craggy rocks, its
armored alloy keeping it ridiculously intact.
Not even the windshield broke. Then it smacked
the blue surface of the water upside down,
and sank like a hammer.
"Registering an overload!" said KITT.
The explosion shook the surrounding prop-
erty and knocked people off ther feet. A bil-
lowing orange fireball broke the surface of
the water and coiled into the sky like the
blast of a miniature atomic bomb. Some of
the tourists took pictures of it.

[knightimmortal]

And that, ladies and gents, is why the novels can't be considered canonical. As you can see, the events at the end were extremely dramatized, and not what we saw in the episode.

KI

[Cougar]

About Karr's scanner. When Karr got his alpha circuits and all replaced you would think he would get his scanner fixed! But mabey he liked it yellow. I did.

[Rockatteer]

The bad part is, I could go on.

Sounds like you need to stop watching this episode.

When it gets to the point where all you can do is nit-pick and can't sit back, relax and enjoy the show, I would say its time to give Knight Rider a rest for a while.

Some of these nit-picks would have been done for "Story telling reasons" i.e. to make it easier for the younger viewers to tell Kitt and Karr apart, which means they are not really nit-picks

The whole idea is after all to tell a story. And in doing that sometimes things are changed to make the story easier to tell.

I think one of the key things to remember is that this is a "snap shot" show, meaning it takes almost random snap shots of the characters lives. There is hardly ever any indication of how much time has elapsed between episodes, nor is there much indication of the show being chronological. There is the odd reference to time passed etc, like in Kitt vs. Karr when Kitt says Karr was destroyed 2 years ago. But in general it’s a show where you need to just sit back enjoy the show and forget what happened in the last episode.

[DJGM]

. . . Boy someone was sure nice to come along while KARR was
buried, and upgrade his dash from a season 1 to a season 3 . . .

KARR received no such upgrade. The dash he had in KvK was no more up to date that KITT's season 2 dash.

[Ghost-Unmade]

Sounds like you need to stop watching this episode.

I swear I only watched it once!!! (ok, twice ).

Seriously, in my defense those were just things that I noticed on an initial watching after recording the rerun. I don't sit around looking for that stuff.


Also I think its important to say that just because some of us "nitpick" doesn't mean we don't like the show. Its just fun to point out the corny little inconsistencies. If you can't admit that the show had a few holes in the plot, then you're probably taking it too seriously.


Ghost

[knightimmortal]

It's one thing to point out the actual inconsistencies.

It's quite another to invent them, when they don't exist.

I think what Rocketeer was getting at, was that if you get so upset over it, then you need to stop watching it.

Or at least that is what I interpret from an actual nitpicker's point of view.

KI

[aussieknight]

KARR received no such upgrade. The dash he had in KvK was no more up to date that KITT's season 2 dash.

Actually he did. The voice box was actually mounted IN the dash this time.
And it has previously been mentioned that KARR had a different console the second time, too.
I think it all boils down to CONTINUITY, or lack thereof.
Still, we enjoyed it.

[Rockatteer]

I think what Rocketeer was getting at, was that if you get so upset over it, then you need to stop watching it.

Or at least that is what I interpret from an actual nitpicker's point of view.

That’s exactly what I meant.

[Ghost-Unmade]

Who's getting upset?

[knightimmortal]

Well, generally when you make commentary like such:

"And the big one that bugs me to this day, and even bugged me as a kid!!!"

Sort of gives the image that you are having some emotional reaction, unless you are just out to show the world your highly dramatic side....

KI