MBS vs Nano "healing"

[pheonix_knight]

We saw in the first Goliath episode that having a heavier object (Goliath) coated in MBS can damage the lighter object (Kitt)...

but would goliath with the MBS be able to tackle the mustangs nanotech which would be healing up on impact....???

we know that Goliath penetrated 'red bluff' which was built into a mountain but technically the Truck only smashed the doors not the mountain itself. and we know from watching the pilot that blackriver SUV was totalled when it hit ki3t (ok so they used a concrete block in reality but....)

so anyway my point is

MBS vs Nanotech...???

[Radicalas]

I think MBS. And i like it more I like thoose bouncing bullets with sparkles. Besides Nanotech is healing the car but not the driver, i think real nanotech couldn't make to heal itself so fast, that the driver wouldn't be reached after impact with the truck. I think driver could be killed after impact because of the delay of healing. And that nanotech sound doesn't sound as cool as bouncing bullets sound from the car with MBS. MBS shows more strength than nanotech.

[Victor Kros]

I agree with Radicalas. I've already brought this subject up on the imdb boards and it turned into quite a heated subject, as well as at The Registries. In my opinion the MBS is still far superior to the nano-tech technology (as it stands right now) in the backdoor pilot. I think it's good at healing little dings and what not from bullets but when you start factoring in full on impacts through walls and such where a motion is constant (not standing still from a side impact with the SUV like smashing into a giant stationary freeway partition) the nano-tech won't be able to keep up with the consistant stream of kinetic damage applied to the car.

=VK=

[pheonix_knight]

Ki3t would sense any oncoming collision (from any direction) and be able to 'concentrate' the nanotech at the point of impact, (possibly leading to vulnerabilty from the opposite side but hey, ya gotta have a weakness to exploit so Ki3t can be destroyed and rebuilt every season...) but in theory, Ki3tt could drive through any obstacle...

[whet]

Kitt 3000 survived the Impact with the suv ok, without any injury , so crashing through wallks etc, will be possable.


When the series starts I think it will be used a lot more,

Just like whatever they could think of to use on Kitt 2000, Laser's other cars rockets etc..

Be intresting to find out.

[Victor Kros]

In my opinion, the Knight 3000 survived the impact of the SUV from the side in a stationary position which quite frankly should have pushed him more then they decided to show. Point being, you're talking about potential (at rest) vs. kinetic (moving) energy and we have yet to see the Knight 3000 display invulnerbility when dealing with a kinetic impact, such as smashing head on through a wall, truck, whatever <b>while in motion</b>, not sitting still like a road block which is exactly what it did in the pilot.

Deflecting/healing bullets is one thing, but I'd say in a hypothetical showdown between the invulnerable object vs. the immovable object, Goliath would still triumph over the Knight 3000 in a straight on battle of impact simply because it wouldn't get damaged (MBS) and the Knight 3000k would have to repair itself almost instantously to stand a chance. Goliath isn't going to bust into a million pieces like a glass plate because of the MBS, it would just keep on going till it ran out of momentum.

With a wall however, the Knight 3000k would have to instantanously repair the damage from impact to prevent it spreading through to the rest of the car. I think that's doable because usually that first impact would be enough to break through the barrier. The same application does not apply when dealing with an object that is not stationary and made of stronger materials like solid steel or thick layers of concrete. For instance if the Knight 3000 needed to smash into an M1 Abrams tank or something, I don't see it winning in a game of chicken where neither vehicle turns away.

=VK=

[goldbug]

I agree that it seems in a straight on collision, Goliath probably would triumph over nuKITT. The one thought I did have during the pilot was that it would be great if KITT had both the MBS and the nanotech layer. The MBS would inherently protect the car while the nanotech layer would heal it if the damage became too significant and allow for his transformations. Since the intent of the new show is to amp up KITT a bit, I'm curious what types of explanations we'll receive for the nanotech shell's abilities.

[PHOENIXZERO]

It could also keep the absorbing of kinetic energy from bullets and other things so they wouldn't ricochet. But yeah, a combination of the MBS and Nano tech in some way would probably be something better. I still think that there's no reason for the MBS formula to actually be lost, it makes no sense to let something like that die with the people who know it, measures would have been taken to preserve it.

[Sue]

In as much as I like the episode Junk Yard Dogs… ( I love nearly killing off main characters, so sad.) …I think we are going to have to banish it from the KR universe. Not just because it reveals that Charles is not KITTs builder, but also because KITT loses his MBS, what’s up with that. That was quite some toxic waste I guess. I wonder how Nano tech would hold up against that.

[Victor Kros]

Revisionist History of a cult favorite show is never a good idea. The writer's need to work with what the original series established, not modify or rewrite it. Add on to it/expand it sure but respect and maintain the history.

(not counting "movie" spin-offs - strictly the four season history)

That's just bad storytelling if they do rewrite/change the history of the show which we would call "canon". It is absolutely disrespectful to the people who created the mythology/universe in the first place and the fans who follow it.

=VK=

[goldbug]

In as much as I like the episode Junk Yard Dogs… ( I love nearly killing off main characters, so sad.) …I think we are going to have to banish it from the KR universe. Not just because it reveals that Charles is not KITTs builder...

I know it introduced the gents who they say built KITT, but it's a semantics game. Was it said "These were the only human beings on the face of the planet involved in the design and construction of KITT."? If not, then we can easily assume other scientists were involved, one of whom could have been Graiman already in hiding at that point.

Going back and adding to pre-established canon happens all the time. This is frequent in comic books (to both good and bad effect depending on the strength of the writers). In TV shows, it can be done well or it can be done wrong. In KR2008 I didn't see anything that outright contradicted anything from the original series. Does it stretch things a bit? Sure. But it didn't break anything AFAIK.

[Sue]

I’m sorry for blaspheming against Knight 3:13. The odd thing is how much that episode reminds you of the new movie, with Bonnie at Stanford needing rescue and all. But let’s get back on topic, what of that toxic waste and its affects on MBS and Nano tech?

[goldbug]

I’m sorry for blaspheming against Knight 3:13. The odd thing is how much that episode reminds you of the new movie, with Bonnie at Stanford needing rescue and all. But let’s get back on topic, what of that toxic waste and its affects on MBS and Nano tech?

My guess? Neither one stands a chance. The nanos can't self heal if they're being dissolved. Of course, writers could do whatever they wanted in reality and claim the nanites can self-replicate, which would solve that problem quickly.

[Victor Kros]

I’m sorry for blaspheming against Knight 3:13. The odd thing is how much that episode reminds you of the new movie, with Bonnie at Stanford needing rescue and all. But let’s get back on topic, what of that toxic waste and its affects on MBS and Nano tech?

My guess? Neither one stands a chance. The nanos can't self heal if they're being dissolved. Of course, writers could do whatever they wanted in reality and claim the nanites can self-replicate, which would solve that problem quickly.

That would depend on the speed in which the nano-tech can replicate vs. the destructive properties of the toxic waste and how far/deep the car was sunk into it. Considering it's basically like a car floating in a pool there wouldn't be any traction for the car to speed out of the pit until it hit the bottom so during the time it took to reach the bottom of said toxic waste pit, the damage would be done.

It's obvious that KITT could not drive out of the pit either because once the car sunk it was stuck there until the next morning when Bonnie and Michael fished it out.

I would say in my opinion it's a no win situation.

=VK=

[knightofthephoenix]

The nanotech was one of the biggest things that bugged me about the movie. I just can't see it being as good as or superior to MBS. And then to have it only work when KITT is on? Whomever though of that was obviously not familar with the original show. Cross your figures that's either rectified or ignored in the new series...

[Sue]

The nanotech was one of the biggest things that bugged me about the movie. I just can't see it being as good as or superior to MBS. And then to have it only work when KITT is on? Whomever though of that was obviously not familar with the original show. Cross your figures that's either rectified or ignored in the new series...

Actually I think it is good to establish your weakness up front. It’s his kryptonite. It will create a lot of options for story ideas. I used it in the screenplay I wrote where KITT has a defibrillator and is trying to save Mike’s life, but at the same time is putting himself in danger of running down his battery and shutting off. KITT knows if he shuts down he could be destroyed, but he takes the risk anyway. It shows his selfless nature and it gives him a more human quality. This is why we like episodes like Junk Yard Dogs so much, we like our heroes to have weak moments. Where would the story be if he truly was invincible? Every David needs his Goliath.

[mads64738]

Hello,

The nanotech was one of the biggest things that bugged me about the movie. I just can't see it being as good as or superior to MBS. And then to have it only work when KITT is on? Whomever though of that was obviously not familar with the original show. Cross your figures that's either rectified or ignored in the new series...

I guess there is another way to look at this... When Sarah and KITT are being chased on the mountain road, doesn't Sarah say something like "Has my father tested all of these functions?". KITT's display shows that most of the subsystems haven't, so could be that the nanotech was still in "debug" mode!

As others have said, the MBS too was compromised, so a combination of the two could be a 'realistic' option...

[seeker78]

Well, I think if nuKITT slammed into an Abrams vehicle, it would temporarily crush the front of the car. Then as soon as the motion stopped, the car would regenerate itself. Of course, much of the initial impact would be mitigated by the armor in the front of car in attack mode.

I would say the biggest difference between MBS and nanotech, apart from nanotech not working when the computer is deactivated, is that the nanotech has a reaction time, that is to say, there is some delay from the moment of impact to the the time when the region is completely healed. This delay, however, would be infinitesimal, certainly nothing that a human would be able to perceive.

I would also note that nanotech is more realistic than MBS; nanotech armor is being developed right now, in real life. They are working on armor that is normally light and flexible like cotton, but if a high speed impact occurs, it instantly becomes harder than steel, then relaxes again when the attack is over.

Also the nanotech does not require special knowledge of the formula to be reapplied.

[jup]

In as much as I like the episode Junk Yard Dogs… ( I love nearly killing off main characters, so sad.) …I think we are going to have to banish it from the KR universe. Not just because it reveals that Charles is not KITTs builder, but also because KITT loses his MBS, what’s up with that. That was quite some toxic waste I guess. I wonder how Nano tech would hold up against that.

Here's why the toxic waste defeated the MBS.

1) KITT was never completely air tight. We are talking about being submerged in this destructive stuff. Up the tail pipe. Around the air intakes. Attacking any little rubber seals. Any gap there is.

2) Destruction on circuits activates power doors/windows. A very likely situation as circuits are being exposed and are shorting out.

3) Attack from the inside. Remember: The MBS was applied to the outside, only. As the vat filled the interior, it was able to be destructive where the MBS was never applied and work away at the very support the MBS was applied to. KITT really didn't stand a chance. Well...if Kitt hadn't freaked out (how does an AI lose his cool, anyhow?) and MIchael hadn't just stood there and apologized, Kitt could have sensed something solid enough to shoot the winch tip into and pulled himself out before suffering more then a stain on the outer pannels. (But, that's the flaw with a super vehicle that can do so much and creating plots that can harm it.) Trust me. If Michael was INSIDE, he would have thought to winch himself and his car out of there.

As for nanotech vs. the acid vat. Here's how I see it.

Acid shorts out the tiny bits of technology. They stop functioning. The car's toast after sinking.

Same with a super weapon. Trick the new KITT into a trap where electrical lines are at. Drop high voltage onto the car. Nano fries. Because, it's nano and can't take super high voltage. Protection becomes useless. Push the car into crusher. Destroy, chuckle and leave.

Personally, I say Nano AND MBS is the best of both worlds. They support each other like peanut butter and jelly. One or the other is just less then what could have been.

[Sue]

Here's why the toxic waste defeated the MBS.

1) KITT was never completely air tight. We are talking about being submerged in this destructive stuff. Up the tail pipe. Around the air intakes. Attacking any little rubber seals. Any gap there is.

2) Destruction on circuits activates power doors/windows. A very likely situation as circuits are being exposed and are shorting out.

3) Attack from the inside. Remember: The MBS was applied to the outside, only. As the vat filled the interior, it was able to be destructive where the MBS was never applied and work away at the very support the MBS was applied to. KITT really didn't stand a chance. Well...if Kitt hadn't freaked out (how does an AI lose his cool, anyhow?) and MIchael hadn't just stood there and apologized, Kitt could have sensed something solid enough to shoot the winch tip into and pulled himself out before suffering more then a stain on the outer pannels. (But, that's the flaw with a super vehicle that can do so much and creating plots that can harm it.) Trust me. If Michael was INSIDE, he would have thought to winch himself and his car out of there.

Thanks Jup for your explanation. It always bothered me the way KITT’s MBS just melted off in that episode like it was just an average paint job. You would think the MBS would still be bonded to the car shiny and new. After all if acid didn’t eat the metal, why would it take off the MBS that is tougher than metal. It just kinda felt like they forgot he had an MBS in that episode. They should have had a line of dialog that explained what happened. Too late to be griping about this though, unless I can get my Delorean up to 88.