told you guys it would be a hybrid :)

[seeker78]

lol, I called that one didn't I, when I said that if I were making a KITT type car today, it would have its primary propulsion be an electric motor! These days it sounds more high tech for a car to be "a hybrid" than for it to be "powered by a turbojet engine".

But you know, I was looking some things up online, and noticed that in the 50s, Ford had plans for a nuclear powered car. It was going to have an actual small reactor in the back. Ford Nucleon, I believe.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/def/Ford-N ... pt-Car.htm
http://media.ford.com/article_display.c ... le_id=3359

Well, that's not really necessary to get a nuclear powered car. You could use an RTG -- Radioisotope Thermal Generator. That's when you have a small piece of radioactive material, and the heat generated by its decay is used to make electricity. Several space probes have been powered that way. They make the RTGs so that they could fall to Earth from orbit and not release radioactive material. Of course with KITT you don't have to worry about that because if another car collides with KITT it would just bounce off. lol. The main issue is encasing the material in lead, so that KITT can't be tracked with a Geiger counter (the beta radiation coming out of the RTG is easily blocked, it's not like gamma which requires heavy shielding)!

[cloudkitt]

A nuclear-powered KITT would be kinda cool, lol.

But today nuclear power carries with it an awful connotation. I dunno whether it's the bombs it can make, Chernobyl or TMI, but so many peopel are uncomfortable with it. (Even though it is, technically, far and away one of the most efficient and cleanest sources of power around - it's main biproduct is steam. Yes, there's radioactive waste, but that's easier to keep track of, and even get rid of than, say, carbon dioxide.)

And hey! KITT would only need to be refueled every few decades

[seeker78]

But today nuclear power carries with it an awful connotation. I dunno whether it's the bombs it can make, Chernobyl or TMI, but so many peopel are uncomfortable with it. (Even though it is, technically, far and away one of the most efficient and cleanest sources of power around - it's main biproduct is steam. Yes, there's radioactive waste, but that's easier to keep track of, and even get rid of than, say, carbon dioxide.)

Yeah I know, I actually used to be slightly against nuclear power myself, being something of an environmentalist, but after having served on a nuclear submarine, on which I was much closer to the reactor than civilians who live "near" a reactor, and not glowing the dark as a result, I actually think nuclear is specifically cool now. Being into science/physics, I used to spend some time back there in the Engine Room, and got the most radiation dose of any non-reactor personnel! lmao!! My actual job was sonar operator. I heard the founder of Greenpeace is actually a nuclear advocate now, because he sees that nuclear does not emit greenhouse gases. Certainly, for any deep space exploration missions with humans, you would have to use a nuclear reactor for power.

When I first heard about gasoline reformers, which extract hydrogen from gasoline onboard a car, I thought, hmm maybe KITT would use that and feed the hydrogen into a fuel cell. But, the one thing about those is that apparently they take several minutes to start up. But KITT could always use batteries for the initial run until the reformer got warmed up, then he would have more fuel. They need an electric means to heat the gasoline too, apparently the gasoline is normally heated by a flame. Actually they have an experimental method that bootstraps the reformer in a few seconds now. So it's a lot more plausible.

But yeah, I think KITT as a hybrid that uses an electric motor for the main propulsion, and an engine to generate power to run the motor, possibly running on ethanol or something like that, or maybe a small diesel, like on the US Navy's pre-nuclear submarines (and the current submarines of various other nations), would make a lot of sense. The electric motor on the Tesla Roadster is very high performance, 0-60 in 4 seconds and top speed of 125 mph.

--Brian

[PHOENIXZERO]

Didn't the founder of Greenpeace leave because the nuts involved became too nuts? Anyway, Nuclear power has so many incorrect things attached to it, it's not funny.

I think the hybrid thing was rather predictable seeing who's involved with the show and AICN also mention at "solar power back up" (GE/NBC of course) so it stood to logic there'd be something for Ford there too. 140MPG is still less than what the original KITT was able to get, which I think was supposed to be something like 200MPG if I remember correctly and from the info we have currently, the old KITT was a lot faster and powerful (thanks turbine engine) compared to the new KITT for Knight/Ford Rider.


Solely electric cars were done not that long ago in California and the automakers pretty much killed them with thanks to lobbyist from the oil industry and other things. So I doubt any automaker is going to get behind the idea of a full on electric car for a TV show, which is why we're getting the Hybrid compromise.

[KITTfan]

What if you crash a nuclear powered car

Hybrid cars are familiar technology these days to people, Toyota Prius and Honda Civic have such engines and since he oil price is getting higher and higher, I think more and more cars will have hybrid engines in near future. Maybe a biodiesel engines with electric motors so the high crude oil prices wouldn't matter so much anymore...

[PHOENIXZERO]

They could always do it Mr. Fusion style.

That would be a problem, it'd kind of be similar to the "energy saver" lights (aka florescent lights) and the environmental issues with what their containing mercury. Just don't go breaking one.

[tamatt27]

In the teaser they mention solar hybrid technology, nothing about an electric motor. Hybrid doesn't always mean electric. Of course we don't know realistic specs on KITT, other than the Popular Mechanic's joke ad, but the GT500 KR has a 550HP gasoline motor. Perhaps the solar power would be to run all of KITT's electronics and not help with the propulsion.

[cloudkitt]

Personally, I was expecting the new KITT to run on cold fusion or one of those hydrogen methods. Even the old KITT ran on liquid hydrogen. So I am actually a little surprised that it's a hybrid. And a V8 hybrid IS a little ridiculous, lol.

[tamatt27]

Personally, I was expecting the new KITT to run on cold fusion or one of those hydrogen methods. Even the old KITT ran on liquid hydrogen. So I am actually a little surprised that it's a hybrid. And a V8 hybrid IS a little ridiculous, lol.

It's a Ford advertisement...there still has to be some reality in that the GT500 is a production car. Why is a V8 hybrid ridiculous? The electric motors produce instant torque and are used in performance applications in the Lexus hybrids.

[cloudkitt]

I know they're real, I always thought they were kinda ridiculous in real life too. Since the electric motor drives the wheels, I never understood why the extra power from a V8 would be necessary.

I admittedly don't know very much about hybrid technology though, so I could very well be wrong.

[seeker78]

ok, well, there are basically two different ways to do a hybrid vehicle:

(1) the way the US Navy used to do submarines before nuclear power: both the diesel engine and the electric motor are on the drivetrain, and you can switch between them. While submerged, the electric motor runs the boat, but while on surface, it is diesel. In the case of cars, the electric motor drives the car below a certain speed, then the gasoline engine kicks in.

(2) the other way is that the engine is NOT on the drivetrain, and it is only the electric motor driving the vehicle, and the engine is used ONLY to provide electricity. Batteries are used primarily, if there is too much electrical demand and/or the batteries run out, the engine starts, and any electricity it provides which is not used for the motor is used to charge the batteries.

So in case (1), a V8 could still get an advantage, since it is on the mechanical drivetrain. In case of (2), you can theoretically get by with a leafblower engine, as long as it generates enough electricity to power the electric motor. In the case of (2) the engine always runs at the same speed whenever it is on, in the case of (1) you can have a variable speed engine. Actually, in both cases the V8 can be an advantage to some extent, as it could drive the alternator (or whatever) a lot faster.

Plus, there is no reason "550 horsepower" cannot refer to an electric motor. Horsepower is just the old British unit (now, mainly American unit, as we are the only country left that mainly uses that system) for what is known in metric/Systeme Internationale (SI) as Watts. 550 HP would be 410 kW. http://www.onlineconversion.com/power.htm

And yes, if it is a "hybrid" there is an electric motor involved in the process. So in other words, a hybrid vehicle is in fact an electric car, just with an additional source of electricity for the motor other than the batteries. In fact, with the Toyota Prius, there is a plugin hybrid mode, where you can charge the car at home and run on batteries even longer (and the car can be modded to have more batteries). This mode is factory installed only in Japan, but the car can be modded to enable it on US models.

btw on a modern nuclear submarine, we can still run on batteries in the event of failure of both the reactor and the diesel, but it would be very s-l-o-w. Our top speeds are classified, so I can't tell you exactly how slow, but obviously it would be very slow. We can also turn the rudder in complete manual mode, that is to say, you can get buffed guys in the Engine Room and turn the thing manually. If the boat is that broken, though, I doubt operating the rudder would be the biggest problem...

--Brian ("Qualified in Submarines" on the USS Florida and USS Asheville)

[tamatt27]

ok, well, there are basically two different ways to do a hybrid vehicle:

(1) the way the US Navy used to do submarines before nuclear power: both the diesel engine and the electric motor are on the drivetrain, and you can switch between them. While submerged, the electric motor runs the boat, but while on surface, it is diesel. In the case of cars, the electric motor drives the car below a certain speed, then the gasoline engine kicks in.

(2) the other way is that the engine is NOT on the drivetrain, and it is only the electric motor driving the vehicle, and the engine is used ONLY to provide electricity. Batteries are used primarily, if there is too much electrical demand and/or the batteries run out, the engine starts, and any electricity it provides which is not used for the motor is used to charge the batteries.

So in case (1), a V8 could still get an advantage, since it is on the mechanical drivetrain. In case of (2), you can theoretically get by with a leafblower engine, as long as it generates enough electricity to power the electric motor. In the case of (2) the engine always runs at the same speed whenever it is on, in the case of (1) you can have a variable speed engine. Actually, in both cases the V8 can be an advantage to some extent, as it could drive the alternator (or whatever) a lot faster.

Plus, there is no reason "550 horsepower" cannot refer to an electric motor. Horsepower is just the old British unit (now, mainly American unit, as we are the only country left that mainly uses that system) for what is known in metric/Systeme Internationale (SI) as Watts. 550 HP would be 410 kW. http://www.onlineconversion.com/power.htm

And yes, if it is a "hybrid" there is an electric motor involved in the process. So in other words, a hybrid vehicle is in fact an electric car, just with an additional source of electricity for the motor other than the batteries. In fact, with the Toyota Prius, there is a plugin hybrid mode, where you can charge the car at home and run on batteries even longer (and the car can be modded to have more batteries). This mode is factory installed only in Japan, but the car can be modded to enable it on US models.

btw on a modern nuclear submarine, we can still run on batteries in the event of failure of both the reactor and the diesel, but it would be very s-l-o-w. Our top speeds are classified, so I can't tell you exactly how slow, but obviously it would be very slow. We can also turn the rudder in complete manual mode, that is to say, you can get buffed guys in the Engine Room and turn the thing manually. If the boat is that broken, though, I doubt operating the rudder would be the biggest problem...

--Brian ("Qualified in Submarines" on the USS Florida and USS Asheville)

A hybrid vehicle is not necessarily an electric car.

[Knight2000]

What's funny is that my dad used to think KITT was nuclear-powered until he saw the exhaust plumes in Goliath Returns (he was never a fan nor a regular viewer).

[seeker78]

A hybrid vehicle is not necessarily an electric car.

It has to be, that's what hybrid means, both an electric motor and an engine are used. Hence, the car is electric, at least partially. I think in 20 years or so, you will be hard pressed to find a production car that uses an engine as the sole means of propulsion. Many early cars were electric. For a long time, oil was cheaply available, that's why engines have become so common, but they are not the most efficient means of propulsion. It might be more "manly", if Tim Taylor type stuff is how one defines manly, but it's not more efficient.

@ manly/aggressive = better

but don't take my word for it, listen to Car and Driver, the editors of which know cars a lot better than me...

"The trio of EVs is reminiscent of GM's E-Flex powertrain architecture, all of which also use various methods of extending range for a vehicle with electric motors juiced by a lithium-ion battery pack."

http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/1 ... page2.html

Car and Driver is clearly identifying the Jeep Renegade as an electric car; it is a hybrid.

QED

--Brian

[seeker78]

What's funny is that my dad used to think KITT was nuclear-powered until he saw the exhaust plumes in Goliath Returns (he was never a fan nor a regular viewer).

Yeah nuclear's good stuff, man, it means the only thing stopping us from staying underwater for years is food supply! On one patrol, we were underwater for 87 days without coming to the surface or coming into port. My Palm IIIxe was able to go that whole time without switching batteries too Of course, it was locked in my rack most of the time...

I read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne (second patrol in which I read that, I think) and The Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper on the Palm