KARR re-surrected.

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KARR re-surrected.

Post by Ste Knight 2012 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:46 am

Ok i'll apologize now if this has been covered as it is abit of a new guy question. Here goes, ok Karr is forced off the cliff and we see him hit the sea and explode.......all agree so far? Cool so how is it that he returns fully in one piece (albeit under lots of sand) in a later episode (Kitt v's Karr i believe) Again apologies if its been covered but i am new lol.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightprowl » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:21 am

yes that's a good question, no idea why he would explode the first karr episode yet be just fine in the 2nd, makes no since the me at all, plus he hit the water, not sand, so why is he buried in sand for, why was he there in the first place, he could have just drove off if he wasn't unplugged, and hes got a licenses plate in the 2nd one, not the first one, its weird how stuff turns out on shows like this, beats me as the explanation, maybe he faked the explosion or something? i dont know, id like to know to so please explain to us if anyone knows, anyways thanks and peace

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightfever » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:23 am

I've heard a lot of theories, but the one that always made the most sense to me, or at least as much sense as a 80's sci-fi/fantasy show can make is that the explosion we saw was KARR's turbo booster igniting, possibly because he was attempting to use Turbo Boost to soften his landing and it just didn't work. It was probably just more to the fact that it was the first season, and they didn't have the foresight to give a us a reasonable ending to lead to a continuation of the KARR story line. "Trust Doesn't Rust" was within the first 13 episodes of Knight Rider and it was possible that they weren't expecting to make it to a second.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Ste Knight 2012 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:50 am

I like that theory :D evil so an so that he was. I like the way his micro processor was still active after KITT v's KARR battle.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Knight Racer » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:45 am

I was reading fan fics in the late 90's early 2000's and one interesting theory i read was one of karr's missiles went off accidentally.It might have been in the well written fan fics rusted trust or knight rider 1998/legends.Now when he was found in kitt vs karr in the sand,Michael asks the owner of the boat shop did he rebuild karr when he had him up against the wall.Which was so funny that he asked a guy wearing those clothes if he was a cyberneticyst able to rebuid karr,then again lets look at how so many scientists/cyberneticysts rebuilt kitt in junk yard dog yet a bunch of ghetto kids can do it in knight of the juggernaught.I'm surprised kitt didn't come out a low rider hoopdie and yet we have spm mode thanks to them.anyother theory I read was someone found karr's parts on the beach,rebuilt him,and karr decided to just remain where he first exploded after being rebuilt.I mean to have his scanner change to yellow and a license plate and his voice modulator power cord disconnected or his main dash user interface cord disconnected,it all adds up to a missing story line for karr.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Lost Knight » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:02 am

Only problem with the missle theory is that K.A.R.R. and K.I.T.T. weren't built with offensive weapons.

I believe it was K.A.R.R.'s flamethrower that went off from the impact of hitting the beach at the same time disconnecting his voice modulator plug.

The license plate issue is real easy as far as I'm concerned; K.A.R.R. always did have a license plate but it was just covered in soot from his incarceration in the warehouse for 6+ months in "Trust Doesn't Rust." The salt water and elements simply washed it off by the time "K.I.T.T. Vs. K.A.R.R." occurred.

His scanner's red lens was of course bleached yellow from being soaked in salt water for two years.

The issue of why, after two years, K.A.R.R. is buried in sand instead of in the ocean is also pretty easy; the tide changed over the course of two years and/or the elements (storms, etc.) could have covered him in sand.
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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightprowl » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:27 am

that is good theory's lost night but that still doesn't answer one question, if he was still operational as he appears to be in kitt vs karr since they drove him away, why didn't he just drive up that road they did instead of just sitting there for 2 years being damaged by the sea and salt and storms and etc, it makes no sense to me at all, if i was karr i would have drove out of there as soon as i could, not just sit there for 2 years for no reason, kind of stupid if you ask me, its like karr had a midlife crysis and said @&^# this and gave up until John and Mandy found him 2 years later, i dont know if a car, even like kitt or karr can have a mid life crysis and be depressed but that's the only explanation i can think of, that or he was to stuck to drive when he hit the beach, but its karr, he could have easily left, dug himself out of the beach and drove off, why he didn't try i have no idea, but anyways that's my theory, we may never know what the true origin of this famous story is, only person i know that could answer that question is Glen Larson, but i dont think he would remember anyways, he might but i dont know, either way its still a cool story and im glad karr came back, anyways thanks and peace

---

also kitt and probably karr had rear rocket launchers, we know this because kitt uses them for blowing up a cliffisde to stop the broken dams water from entering the town in not a drop to drink, so yes they do have offensive weapons, kitt does anyways we know that for sure, but he would only use them for the means he did in that episode, not to blow up cars behind him, kitt doesn't kill, now i could see him using them for blowing up a huge bunker door like Goliath did to the red bluff missile silo, but not to hurt anyone, plus hes got a laser for the same thing as well, and the flame thrower and other stuff like that, so yes kitt and karr do have offensive weapons, i dont know who wouldn't call a rear rocket launcher, a laser or a flame thower a weapon but ok then, anyways thanks and peace
Last edited by Matthew on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: To merge a double post.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Knight Racer » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:56 am

An interesting theory on why Karr gave up after trust doesn't rust is one I read in another fan-fic.In the fan-fic titled Lost Knight where Michael's son is kitt's only hope for staying alive,Karr is sent by the new leader of Flag to stop kitt.Karr's reasoning takes over at a pivotal point in the series and he realizes that his prime directive is self preservation and by attacking kitt,he understands it will only cause his destruction.So logic dictates that if he were to stay away from him,he could continue to exist in peace.But in the end he teams up with him to take down Flag.Great series.Wish I could find it again somewhere online.Knight Writers Online was a great site for fan-fics back then.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightprowl » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:46 pm

that totally slipped my mind man, karr did want self preservation, so yeah that's one reason he would give up too, but yeah theres a many a reasons in theory why karr just sat there, what really exploded and so on, its what keeps the story alive, us imagining different scenarios and reasons, anyways thanks and peace

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Lost Knight » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:04 pm

knightprowl wrote:that is good theory's lost night but that still doesn't answer one question, if he was still operational as he appears to be in kitt vs karr since they drove him away, why didn't he just drive up that road they did instead of just sitting there for 2 years being damaged by the sea and salt and storms and etc, it makes no sense to me at all,


I think that has to do with his disconnected cables and wires. If you notice as K.A.R.R. is being towed out of the sand, his dashboard lights are completely off until they reactivate, indicating that he wasn't fully operational until that moment. That suggests the sand and salt water got into his circuitry and inhibited him. Once he was freed, K.A.R.R. took over control to show off for John a little bit. You could say he was possibly in a sort of "standby" mode. At least, that's always been my theory. Since it was never originally envisioned by the writers for K.A.R.R. to return, if we are to try and make sense of basic questions as to why he remains intact, we kind of have to stretch things a bit.

knightprowl wrote:also kitt and probably karr had rear rocket launchers, we know this because kitt uses them for blowing up a cliffisde to stop the broken dams water from entering the town in not a drop to drink, so yes they do have offensive weapons, kitt does anyways we know that for sure, but he would only use them for the means he did in that episode, not to blow up cars behind him, kitt doesn't kill, now i could see him using them for blowing up a huge bunker door like Goliath did to the red bluff missile silo, but not to hurt anyone, plus hes got a laser for the same thing as well, and the flame thrower and other stuff like that, so yes kitt and karr do have offensive weapons, i dont know who wouldn't call a rear rocket launcher, a laser or a flame thower a weapon but ok then, anyways thanks and peace


I stand corrected on the rocket issue as I just checked the episode. Yes, technically all three are offensive weapons only for K.I.T.T.'s case they obviously can only be used to remove obstacles and not to kill (much like the Batpod's guns in The Dark Knight), as you pointed out. Although, I don't count the laser as officially being part of K.I.T.T. or K.A.R.R.'s functions as it was installed for a special circumstance in both episodes (as all three of these weapons were used once, I believe) and only good for limited shots.
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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightprowl » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:47 pm

yes your right he was in deed unplugged, so yes he couldn't have drove off until he was found and plugged back in, and yes those are still weapons, even though there used once its still a weapon, plus the other features that they have, smoke screen, tear gas, micro lock, micro jam, all these features are considered weapons, sure there not like guns or grenades but still a form of weapon, but yes karr was a show off, he made his users change for the worse, and then try and kill them, that's whats wrong with karr, he tricks you to get in, he shows off for you, then when all goes wrong he ejects you and makes you fend for yourself, in the end karr is like some dogs, all bark and no bite because hes got self preservation, he always chickens out, except for the new karr and kitt vs karr, he goes all out, thinking he and kitt would both be destroyed if they hit head on, but i guess he forgot kitt has mbs but his just go destroyed with that laser block back into his scanner, its why kitt survived and he didn't, karr started out a self preservation, then got pissed off and wanted revenge in kitt vs karr, then got remade with all the stops ready to kill kitt no matter what, really in my opinion karr had and has some mental issues, or in the car world, bad programming, but anyways thanks and peace

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Knight Racer » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:36 pm

That's something I never understood.In Trust Doesn't Rust Devon words were once a dead on shot hits the scanner,his systems would blow,he will be an immobilized hunk of metal.If that were to be true then how was karr able to still remain active after the scanner got zapped?All Michael said was he's vulnerable head on.His MBS didn't get affected by the laser shot to the scanner.Only a destabalizing agent like in knight of the juggernaught can disable the MBS molecular bonding.I would guess the saltwater had a similar effect on karr.He could withstand the semi turbo boost and the bridge which may have been really old but a head on collission with anything covered in MBS,that's why I think he was vulnerable at that moment.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightprowl » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:29 pm

that's true man, he was damaged from head on, kitt wasn't, so that's why kitt survived and karr didn't i guess, really theres to many opinions on this and we may never know 100% for sure about stuff like this, then again i know nothing about knight rider apart from what ive seen on the show, which i dont watch much anyways so yeah, anyways thanks and peace

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Knight Racer » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:42 pm

Say it with me everyone..."INCONSISTENCIES" there,now doesn't that make you feel good putting your world back in order.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by Lost Knight » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:50 pm

Knight Racer wrote:That's something I never understood.In Trust Doesn't Rust Devon words were once a dead on shot hits the scanner,his systems would blow,he will be an immobilized hunk of metal.If that were to be true then how was karr able to still remain active after the scanner got zapped?All Michael said was he's vulnerable head on.His MBS didn't get affected by the laser shot to the scanner.


In theory, that is what Devon believed would happen, but the laser had never been used before, so he couldn't know for sure. In "K.I.T.T. Vs. K.A.R.R.," the laser was reflected back at K.A.R.R. and not necessarily at full strength as it would have been from a direct shot. So it could be either or both of those possibilities.

Knight Racer wrote:Only a destabalizing agent like in knight of the juggernaught can disable the MBS molecular bonding.I would guess the saltwater had a similar effect on karr.He could withstand the semi turbo boost and the bridge which may have been really old but a head on collission with anything covered in MBS,that's why I think he was vulnerable at that moment.


That's how I always thought of it. Even K.I.T.T. himself questions in "The Scent Of Roses" if salt air could corrode his chassis. That raises another interesting question as to whether the Molecular Bonded Shell could weaken over time and need to be maintained/reapplied. We never really got the answer because K.I.T.T. was destroyed in each season and had to have it reapplied, regardless.

Regarding the collision issue, head-on K.A.R.R. could withstand collisions as we saw, against objects that didn't contain a MBS, but as has been pointed out in a thread here once, it's been argued that K.I.T.T. actually impacted slightly underneath K.A.R.R. during the turbo boosts.

The question as to whether or not K.A.R.R. had rockets is something I believe cannot be answered. And that's because as K.A.R.R. is the prototype, he didn't have every function available to him that K.I.T.T. did later on. Some functions of K.I.T.T.'s probably weren't even conceptualized when K.A.R.R. was operational. The same could be said for the flamethrower, or really any other function that we never saw K.A.R.R. use.

However, it's either a rocket or the flamethrower that would make the only sense as to why a fireball would erupt when he hit the beach. In "K.I.T.T. Vs. K.A.R.R.," Devon gives Michael and K.I.T.T. a brief summary on K.A.R.R. and says, "Remember, K.A.R.R. is K.I.T.T.'s prototype, designed and built by Wilton Knight, with all of K.I.T.T.'s capabilities." But we know for a fact this isn't true as K.I.T.T. had many functions added to him over the two years since "Trust Doesn't Rust" (and arguably built with more), so Devon was just generalizing.
Last edited by Lost Knight on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by knightprowl » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:56 pm

karr has the same features as kitt did before they started adding new stuff, so karr would have had the flame thrower, rocket launcher, and so on, all features that kitt had originally, they where virtually identical, the only difference between kitt and karr was programming, so yes karr is a prototype but exact copy of kitt, apart from there programming and kitts later on features, so yes karr has all the basics they both have, ski mode, turbo boost, boosters and so on, the other stuff later added like parachute, flares, traction spikes and etc he dont, he has everything the pilot kitt had pretty much, plus the laser in season 3, but that's about it, anyways thanks and peace

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by jminn55313 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:51 pm

also at end of KITT vs KARR it showed his micro processer was still active so if they wanted to they could of made it so Garth did not really die when semi went over and garth finds the processor and has karr rebuilt and use to go after Micheal Knight and KITT.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by taxguru » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:32 pm

There's a lot of inconsistencies to the KARR saga, aka the license plate differences and of course "it" being alive. We can speculate all we want, but in the end, we don't know what exploded. Like many of you have said, something could've exploded...look at KITT in "Knight of the Drones," there was an explosion, but did KITT die? No, he was still functioning, as he was talking to Bonnie, etc.

Notice we never really see what explodes, we assume everything...why didn't Devon have the authorities and/or FLAG go down to the bottom of the beach to claim the wreckage? Etc etc?

In the end, every series has its inconsistencies, just for pure entertainment and ratings. In my opinion, season 3 was very different and disappointing in writing, from seasons 1 and 2, and they needed a lift. The enemies didn't seem as bad, and it seemed like they were struggling a little to get consistency. Of course, Joe, would know better, than any of us, from all his research.

Years later, we anticipated KARR's return in the new "Knight Rider" and how disappointing was that? Very. In my opinion, the new series made no ties to the original series, which was a mistake. Even "Star Trek:TNG" and every other series since then has made ties to the original series.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by jminn55313 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:51 pm

yea i was hoping the new Knight rider would of hadKARR return someone could of found the CPU and then steal the knight 4000 the red car used in the knight rider 2000 movie put karr in it and use it to try and bring down KITT and Micheal. Also would of been nice to see Garth return. they could of said he jumped before the semi went over and went off to recover and hide and now he returns to bring down FLAG. and kill micheals son and micheal knight once and for all.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by taxguru » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:10 pm

In "Goliath Returns," the water didn't seem too deep, so who knows, maybe he's alive somewhere.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by whereismichaellong? » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:52 am

KARR is Ok in KITT V KARR because the car that you saw go over the cliff was not KARR but the demonic car from the film The Car 1977. By the way this is a great film.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by jminn55313 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:38 am

yea my guess is karr sitting by the ocean for 2 years the salt water damaged his bonded shell which is why when kitt and karr hit head on karr was damaged and kitt made it alive. karr cpu was still active though so if they at somepoint decide to bring back the new knight rider for another season they could say karr cpu was found and karr is reborn to go after kitt and the foundation. could also have garth live after semi went off cliff he swam to an island and was nursed back to live by some friend from africa and he is set out to get micheal and kitt once and for all. have ann turkel guest star as adrian that some how she also lived.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by taxguru » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:14 pm

The new "Knight Rider" should've taken a page from other tv series that spun off from classic tv series. Look at "Star Trek: The Next Generation." It took a few seasons for them to find their own identity, but it worked. But, for me, they blew it when they made the new Michael Knight the other Michael's son...Take "Hawaii Five 0" as a classic example of how NOT to screw up.

They could've done the new "Knight Rider" the same way..same concepts, slightly different ways of introducing the same themes.

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by jminn55313 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:17 pm

yea and they used a mustang for kitt. sorry but to me kitt will always be a trans am. they should of used trans am as a kitt i know they dont make em anymore but there are plenty around. the Knight 4000 would of been better then the ford mustang

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Re: KARR re-surrected.

Post by msKEN » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:13 pm

taxguru wrote:In "Goliath Returns," the water didn't seem too deep, so who knows, maybe he's alive somewhere.


HEY! Stay out of our script for Knight Rider: The Fan Game! :lol: I agree though, I don't believe Garthe died in that crash but I also don't believe he walked away uninjured. I always kind of thought Mobius from TKR was going to end up being what remained of Garthe Knight. A crippled criminal mastermind still pulling strings from his wheel chair. Oh there I go... spoiler alert for our fan game. :twisted:
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