Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by caljediknight » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:02 pm

Guys

I am sure that Nick/VK in due time will address the issue at hand.

Do you really think he is that dumb to publish items from another book without knowing what he is doing? Come on. I support Nick 100%!!!

The book is great and again he will address this items in due time.

I do recommend his book and it is a great buy!!!

It has tons of pictures and just my 2 cents KR info is not only in the legacy book but on alot of KR websites as well. Alot of the info is common knowlege that has been here and there for a great many years!!!

Dan

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by KITTKARR85 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:22 pm

I....am.....confused.....I just bought the Companion last week......I love Legacy it's great and I just hope this gets settled peacefully.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by 1982 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:08 pm

TRUTH does not need to be remembered, constantly defended, nor need a lengthy amount of time to carefully prepare words as does GUILT(also known as "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS").

Let the evidence presented from both sides determine the TRUTH, rather than biased opinions with their spin of what is right and wrong merely based on their board affiliation. They mean nothing.

Frankly, there is not much in the new book that I haven't seen, read, or heard already.

Legacy was a joint venture and contribution, and should have been credited as such in the new book, rather than simply giving Levine credit. I doubt it was dissected as to who wrote or contributed what. If the omission was simply an oversight or printing error, that is all that needs to be said; not some lengthy post of this, that, or whatever.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Victor Kros » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:18 pm

To the fans of Knight Rider,

First and foremost, I would like to say I will not be lured into a fight or dispute of any sort regarding this subject. As much as I enjoy chatting with you, it is my opinion that no board community should be involved in a matter that should have been addressed privately to begin with.

Over the last several years, I have achieved a reputation that I am proud of with people of importance in the world of Knight Rider, all of whom support my efforts and the book that has been produced. Because of my professional position within forthcoming Knight Rider projects, I have been advised not to comment at length publicly about this matter.

This project was a labor of love from beginning to end. I have put my time, energy, heart, soul, and yes even money to make this manuscript possible to give the fans of the series the opportunity to own a book they have been waiting for, and in the quality they’ve been asking for.

The Knight Rider Companion is at its core a “guidebook” or “reference” to the original series mythology and features commonly found episode material from multiple sources in the public domain as well as through NBC’s own personal memos and inner-office publications.

I devised to completely reformat whatever material that I had been given access to into a more simplified presentation that would allow readers to quickly find what they were looking for. A “companion” for them to reference while enjoying the show or discovering more about it.

It was not my intention to “tell” the story of Knight Rider’s creation to readers, it was my intention to “show them” the story of Knight Rider through high resolution visuals and allow them to learn the creation process through the words of the cast and crew who experienced it first hand.

I have never denied using content from Knight Rider Legacy, for which I have the license to use at my discretion, supplied to me by co-author Richie Levine. Sue’s chat room post will verify that information. Everyone who was referenced during the creation of this book has been credited, including website forums.

No part of Knight Rider Archives was intentionally reproduced in any way, shape or form. The Pilot Breakdown was acquired through Richie Levine and Glen Larson.

No effort was made to contact me by Mr. Huth about any portion of the creative input, publication, or printing of The Knight Rider Companion. Joe himself admits that from the beginning he had full knowledge of my intentions to produce a new guide book to Knight Rider and made no attempts to voice any objections towards it or be involved in any capacity whatsoever. This includes any concern that I may be somehow infringing on his half of the rights of Knight Rider Legacy.

The following is a transcript conducted between the original authors of Knight Rider Legacy regarding “plagiarized” interview material.

Joe Huth (12/31/2007 4:35:04 PM): You can't take your part and publish without adding A LOT back in
Richie Levine (12/31/2007 4:35:51 PM): Email me what was mine and that is separated from yours and I will get it back into print with Larson's new foreword and all the new stuff and interviews
Joe Huth (12/31/2007 4:36:03 PM): The agreement you signed: 1. It is the intention of both parties that Chapters 1,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,15,19, and 20 and Appendix A,B,C,D, and E (as described in the attached outline) is/was drafted by Huth and then revised by Levine in consultation with Huth.
Richie Levine (12/31/2007 4:36:29 PM): Joe the interviews are not yours
Richie Levine (12/31/2007 4:36:33 PM): Nor are the permissions
Richie Levine (12/31/2007 4:36:48 PM): I've done everything I can to work with you
Joe Huth (12/31/2007 4:37:02 PM): Never said that the interviews were mine
Joe Huth (12/31/2007 4:37:09 PM): But the rest is


Comparing one interview quote produced in one book to another identical quote is insignificant. The responses given by said cast and crew are agreed upon to be presented in their entirety. You cannot alter someone’s response to a question if they tell you not to change their words. A perfect example of this is Larson’s Foreword which he wanted presented in its entirety, unchanged from his original submission. Said responses to questions belong to the people who spoke them, not the reporter who gathered or transcribed them.

This point and all other references to “photo evidence” of copying a response from cast or crew, word for word is discredited. Joe himself claims in writing he has no ownership.

Joe Huth (12/31/2007 4:35:04 PM): You can't take your part and publish without adding A LOT back in

As you can see, Richie was instructed by Mr. Huth to do the above and that's exactly what he did by contacting me. I did what Joe himself said to do. Said sections that were excluded were replaced by superior material presented in superior quality and format.

Again I will make this perfectly clear, Richie is in no way, shape, or form a co-author of this book. His involvement extends towards licensing his material for use and a consultant at best. This book is in no way, shape, or form a continuation or extension of Knight Rider Legacy.

The fact the cover art is similar only validates my original involvement. I created the artwork, it is my intellectual property and I will use it as I see fit.

Legally I have covered my bases.

With 680 pages of content presented on magazine quality 80# glossy paper and score marks along the front and back cover (to prevent major spine cracking), full page color photos, new interview material not found in previous books, autograph guide, logo guide, Knight Rider Bible, Knight Gallery, and the most current information available…I will let The Knight Rider Companion speak for itself.

I have achieved a level of professional success that I have worked very hard to attain and I have no intention of jeopardizing that position. People are free to form their own opinions about the book and decide for themselves whether or not to add it to their collection.

This is my one and only reply regarding this matter.

Should Joe wish to bring up more examples, all I can say to him is, “Thanks for buying my book and for taking such a profound interest in it.”

I am the author and the designer of The Knight Rider Companion. I have done my part.

The rest is up to you.

-Nick Nugent
Author of The Knight Rider Companion

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by ivirscar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:17 am

Joe Huth wrote:--------------------------

Companion:

Image

Legacy:

Image

What's funny about this one is that I made a mistake in "Legacy" that appears in "Companion"! See the one bullet above about "Valley of Fire"? I wrote, by accident, that it was a dry lake bed outside Las Vegas...however it's not a dry lake bed, but a state park with huge red rocks everywhere!...


:?

Why reprint an error that was printed in the earlier book? Wouldn't it have been more in nick's "best interests" to research and get the facts right instead of just using earlier print? :wink:


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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by 1982 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:46 am

Victor Kros wrote:To the fans of Knight Rider,

First and foremost, I would like to say I will not be lured into a fight or dispute of any sort regarding this subject. As much as I enjoy chatting with you, it is my opinion that no board community should be involved in a matter that should have been addressed privately to begin with.

Over the last several years, I have achieved a reputation that I am proud of with people of importance in the world of Knight Rider, all of whom support my efforts and the book that has been produced. Because of my professional position within forthcoming Knight Rider projects, I have been advised not to comment at length publicly about this matter.


The last sentence is like saying that there is enough validity to Joe's claim(s), that whatever you may say might incriminate yourself rather than prove otherwise. It shows reasonable doubt as to credibility, regardless of said reputation.

Your evidence, as is, is pretty much hearsay, unless Levine can somehow validate it.

"This is my one and only reply regarding this matter."

That would be the easy way out. The doubt will remain.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by chrisjones » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:31 am

Its a shame its all had to come to this.

BUT

-VK- If you hadn't built up such a reputation for acting like 'Mr Big' maybe more people would have been willing to accept this 'oversight' shall we call it. :good:

The fact that errors have been carried over really doesn't give off vibes of expert, inside information guy.

As it stands your previous conduct and self inflation has come right around to bite you on the ass. :!:
[b]No way you mentalist![/b]

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Joe Huth » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:15 am

Hey guys,

You have my side, you have Nick's side. My only goal was to make this public. Mission accomplished. I could reply directly to what Nick said, but it's not worth the time. I'll let all of you form your own opinion based on the information provided. I appreciate his professional response in the matter. If the mods agree, let's lock this thread and move on.

Thanks,
Joe
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Co-author of Knight Rider Legacy

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Skav » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:39 am

Sorry Nick but I feel your reply just wasn't good enough to justify yourself and the book. I skipped the big sugar coating build up in your reply as I wish you had got straight to the point sooner!

Let me ask everybody a simple question, please tell me if anybody else were convinced the new book had new information or at least the majority of the information was at least something of new substance?

I am sure I am not the only one who felt that the build up of the book came across this way.

This is only my opinion but paying 50 bucks plus shipping for a picture book isn't worth it even if the pics are new. What's the bet that they can be found on the net too if the text information could plus other sources?

This may sound very harsh but I think I am justified in calling Nick a bit of a fraud to be honest. He could have at least made it aware that if people had the Legacy book that there would be duplicate information because the Companion is a "look up" book.

It's fine if you don't have the legacy book, and I am sure many do not, but there are also many that do.

Nick should be feeling embarrassed and be thankful lawyers are not on his back side.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by neps » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:23 am

All -

We, the moderators, left open this thread to give both sides a fair chance to get their side of the story out to the public. Now that they both have its time to close the thread.

If the debate had been kept civil and on the topic of the alleged plagiarism that is one thing. But unfortunately many of you decided to make these personal attacks and we can't allow that to exist.

Any message in this thread that resorted to a personal attack regardless of it's author will be removed and the poster will receive a warning.

We will close this thread in 6 hrs - giving enough time for people to voice their opinions constructively on the matter. The only reason I'm leaving it open is because I know that's something Nick usually perfers, and I want to give both authors that fair chance.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. You have been warned.

Neil

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Skav » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:55 am

neps wrote:All -

We, the moderators, left open this thread to give both sides a fair chance to get their side of the story out to the public. Now that they both have its time to close the thread.

If the debate had been kept civil and on the topic of the alleged plagiarism that is one thing. But unfortunately many of you decided to make these personal attacks and we can't allow that to exist.

Any message in this thread that resorted to a personal attack regardless of it's author will be removed and the poster will receive a warning.

We will close this thread in 6 hrs - giving enough time for people to voice their opinions constructively on the matter. The only reason I'm leaving it open is because I know that's something Nick usually perfers, and I want to give both authors that fair chance.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. You have been warned.

Neil


Neil, if you close the thread, may I make a suggestion that a thread or notice be made to warn people of the similarities between the two books?

We all know that once a thread is locked down it will get pushed off the board eventually, thus, there may be people who buy the book and may not be aware of this thread existing that details the similarities.

If Nick had any good intentions about the book he "made" then he would let people know himself, whether he would do that or not is subjective.

I can understand the personal attacks in a way, although they are not justifiable, but there will be people who will be angry after shelling out lots of money in the poor current economic climate we live in. It's part of being human.

Most of these people were already warned anyway.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:06 am

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Jay » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:09 am

I appreciate Joe posting these observations, and keeping civil in the matter.

Now, onto Nick.

I was going to buy your book. But, now I know your great art will not be worth the money as the rest... well, is Legacy stuff. Having at one point in time many section of Legacy memorized, if this isn't all-new stuff, I'm really not interested.

The point whether it is plagiarism, and the rights conflict, it is beyond me as I do not know enough on the matter.

HOWEVER.

There are things I would like to comment on severely, and that I find a little appalling.

First, Nick, there is no point in writing in your response how you wanted to give the fans something special, and how you came off as a professional. You've written it countless times and we know. I know you had good intentions and are a great artist and graphic designer.
But that's beside the point.

Back in the Summer of Secrets thread, there was a comment by a certain someone who said that it would be a "rehashed Legacy". You said that was untrue, and that it would be all-new (don't have exact quotes, don't want to dig out that thread and start going through the whole thing).
So... this isn't a problem of content reproduction but saying whether it would occur.

Another issue is your co-author. Those that followed its evolution closely know that there was one, a “Fredrick Renard III”. You assured us this was someone new to this and that it wasn’t Mr. Levine, and that Mr. Levine’s involvement would be providing the interviews and photos used in Legacy. I can dig these comments up, too.
Could the co-author stand up and comment too, please? And how much content were they involved with making if there’s isn’t that much new (apart from the excellent art, few small extra guides, Autographs…)?

I was convinced by your advertising campaign that all this would be all-new. I must say I looked forward to your take on describing episodes (having known Legacy).

It would have been the right thing to do, the make it known to customers how much of this book was Legacy. That would have been professional and you would come off sparkly clean.

To summarize… if memory serves this was supposed to be all-new, who is the mysteriously-disappeared co-author (the book was written with him, after all) or what is their opinion about this, and this issue isn’t about content copying but what stands behind the content copying.

And now, a direct quote from a PM from Nick to me, sometime ago:
Also this book is not a continuation or rehash of Knight Rider Legacy. While it borrows very very loosely from some of it's information, this book is its own identity and should not be considered in any way a reboot or extension of Knight Rider Legacy.

Legacy was 416 pages, my book is 680. That just gives you a small indication of the amount of extra content in my book. The look, feel, context, and design of my book is absolutely superior to Knight Rider Legacy in every way.
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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by chrisjones » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:10 am

CJaguar442 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKAxnB6Ap4o this the truth.


In what way shape or form does that have a single bit to do with the conversation taking place in this thread!?

Are you actually trying to get yourself banned from the forum?
[b]No way you mentalist![/b]

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:20 am

no i am not.
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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Mango19 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:24 am

VK needs to make this go away - now.

Right or wrong, this is type of stuff that will dog an art director's career for the rest of his life.

If Joe Huth is wrong and you have the rights, lawyer up and sue him. You need that retraction.

If something was overlooked legally, don't argue it on boards. Resolve it. Get a lawyer involved, make Joe happy, fix it in later editions. First editions always have mistakes - overlooking a licensing issue is forgivable, as long as you take steps to fix it.

Victor has too much at stake as a budding art director to risk this albatross, especially if he wants to be involved with Larson's movie. Just fix it - whatever it takes.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:26 am

I guess sarcasim is dead :roll: the link was a joke
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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:28 am

Most of the examples on held content I just read in this thread were bits I picked up from the net years ago (and I enjoyed rereading the bits with WIlliam Daniels...I'm betting the books carry the part where Will would read xmas stories to the sick kids in the hospital, and they would recognize him as KITT from Knight Rider). Not to say that these books wouldn't be a bad read. But think about the Star Wars franchise, and how we just see the same things said over and over and over. A fan will probably give it a read, regardless if it holds the same content almost word for word.

Though, I'm real surprised Nick didn't correct certain typos...that's kind of lame, dude.

I've not read neither one of these books, but I bet they are both good in their own way. Nick claims his book has more pictures. That's a kudos I believe he has earned. So, whatever, I say. A nerd is definitely going to pick up one of these books, or give them both a read at the book store..if they are at the book store.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by chrisjones » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:57 am

CJaguar442 wrote:I guess sarcasim is dead :roll: the link was a joke


The sarcasm would have been understood if you were a bit more consistent with your posts - The last few (prior to deletion) were full of religious undertones and all manner of off topic jargon.

Saying that, its a good clip :lol:
[b]No way you mentalist![/b]

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by chrisjones » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:59 am

KnightINSTINCT wrote:A nerd is definitely going to pick up one of these books, or give them both a read at the book store..if they are at the book store.


Should that not be 'Knerd'? :P
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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Stylez » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:11 pm

I find it funny that almost the same thing happen with Legacy. Our own Michael Pajaro's TKR episode guide from http://www.teamknightrider.com was in the first print of Knight Rider Legacy. If I remember correctly that was an oversight on Richie's part.

I just found this quote from a post over at http://www.knightregistries.com, "His (Richie) "contribution" to the K.R. hobby is negligable, as it was his partner who did most of the work on the Knight Legacy book..." Source is http://www.knightregistries.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-455.html Who knows if it's entirely accurate but a statement nonetheless.

Obviously “Fredrick Renard III” is Richie F. Levine's pen name. I'm not interested in putting 2 nickels into that man's pocket and it's the sole reason I never purchased Legacy. I was intent on purchasing Nick's Knight Rider Companion but if it's just barely a re-hashing of Legacy with further involvement from Richie then I'll pass.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by dag268 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:20 pm

What happened to everybody enjoying the show, hobby ect. There is plenty of room for two books. Both sides have been addressed, let it go. Enough bitching. I appreciate the heads up and we can decide as to if we, the consumer want to purchase the book or not. That was accomplished with the first post. Lets all grow up and move on.

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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by Jay » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:57 pm

Stylez wrote:Obviously “Fredrick Renard III” is Richie F. Levine's pen name.


If that is the case, then Nick is in serious trouble, as many people trusted him to that not being the case. I still believe it is someone else.
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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:09 pm

dag268 wrote:What happened to everybody enjoying the show, hobby ect. There is plenty of room for two books. Both sides have been addressed, let it go. Enough bitching. I appreciate the heads up and we can decide as to if we, the consumer want to purchase the book or not. That was accomplished with the first post. Lets all grow up and move on.



agreed
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Re: Regarding the Knight Rider Companion - PLEASE READ

Post by BoMcD » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:40 pm

Fredrick Renard III
=
Knight Rider Fan

It's another of those wonderful "puzzles".... :roll:
As The KROS name is Knight Rider-Old Series
Rearrange the letters...tho a letter or two off...
.. but thats what the "name" was invented out of....
at least that's my theory..
Last edited by BoMcD on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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