Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

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Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by DrWho2005 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:03 pm

Recently it has seemed that the thing to do in movie world is Prequel or Remake.
In television land it has become Sequel Series.
More and more shows seems to be coming back as follow ons, It isn't a new concept..in the 90's we had shows like Saved By The Bell and Degrassi doing it. But now it is happening a lot more. SHows like 90210, Knight Rider have done it. This year we have Melrose Place coming back.Im sure the A team will come back soon too :-) In most cases they are never as big as the original show was in terms of viewership or popularity.

Since 2005 two shows that were huge cult hits around the world have returned: Doctor Who and of course, Knight Rider.

DOctor Who has gone on to become a massive hit around the world and KR has been a massive failure. DW is so much bigger than it used to be, KR is a joke to most people.

Why is this though?



Russel T Davies bought his own vision to Doctor Who, he upset a lot of people and caused controversy amongst fans with things like gay inuendos and the Doctor kissing a lot.
But he didn't change what the show was, didnt ignore where it came from and certainly didn't alienate the millions of fans who have supported the show for 45 years and will support it forever. The show is such a phenomena that even a cast change or casting speculation makes front page news.

So what has changed about Doctor Who since 1963? A few things on the surface, but underneath it is still recognisable as the same show. A continuation, not a remake, reboot or any other Re words.

It is the same character. He still does the same things. He has grown ( and gotten shorter too!) but he is still the same man saving the universe from the same kind of bad guy.

Some of the enemies are the same as are some of the characters from the last 45 years.
Sarah Jane, Davros, The Daleks, Cybermen. All part of what some call " The Classic Series ".
All popular now. Still.

The Vehicle is the same. The Tardis might have a new interior, but its still the same ole girl that it's driver has always had. Kids love the tardis. My 7 year old has a number of tardis models.

The music has been update, but is reconisable as the Dr Who theme tune.


The BBC aren't embarrased by their show either.

Doctor Who has done everything that Knight Rider has failed to do and has succeeded massively. DW has shown that a show can grow AND still be the same show.

Doctor Who has joined the past with the future and has created something special.

Some KR fans will tell you we need to leave the past behind..have everything new..the past will bring us down..
Wot Rot.

There is a term people use " Standing on Its Own Two Feet".
Stupid term, stupid idea.
There is a reason some of these old shows were big and it isnt just because there wasnt much else on.

Im not suggessting we bring back the real kitt and Michael snr..but i am saying that giving them a look in somewhere wont hurt.
People want an old villian? Well give it to them then. They didnt change the Daleks to be
and Autobot in a different body did they?

NBC annd GST need to learn a lesson from what RTD and the BBC have done.

KR could have done what DW did and become huge, but they havent and it has failed.
Doctor WHo is heading towards it's 30th season, KR is in it's fifth ( as a show called Knight rider with Michael and Kitt..i dont count the spin off show TKR ).

Doctor Number 4 said " This is the ENd but the moment has been prepared for "
Well folks, this is the end of KR and it's time to prepare for it.
I think if we are truly honest with ourselves we will know the show wont be renewed.
Some crazy folk here will say it is because people didnt give it a chance...you know what? They are right. If something you love doesnt turn out the way you want, then you aren;t going to keep it around.

GST and the NBC messed up by ignoring the past.

Thank God for people like Russel t Davies.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by weeezl » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:10 pm

:|

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Lynda414 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:37 pm

I can see where you are coming from. But Doctor Who and Knight Rider are totally different franchises. Michael Knight does not have the option of gaining a new body when his old one wears out.

Knight Rider would be better as a seqel yes, but I don't agree with those that want the old Michael Knight and KITT to return and take over. Their time is done. New generation. New KITT, new Driver.

I don't think everything should be thrown out. Referencing the past is perfect. As long as the past stays in the past.

Another reason why Doctor Who is so successful is the writing, not just that they stayed true to it's roots. The writing is of a much superior quality than the current Knight Rider, not counting the last few eps, which have been pretty good.

What Knight Rider needs more than trying to bring back KI2T is a consistent and compelling storyline. Thankfully, they are headed in that direction.

Besides, would you really want the old duo back in eps written like the first nine?

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by DrWho2005 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:32 pm

Lynda414 wrote:I can see where you are coming from. But Doctor Who and Knight Rider are totally different franchises. Michael Knight does not have the option of gaining a new body when his old one wears out.

Knight Rider would be better as a seqel yes, but I don't agree with those that want the old Michael Knight and KITT to return and take over. Their time is done. New generation. New KITT, new Driver.

I don't think everything should be thrown out. Referencing the past is perfect. As long as the past stays in the past.

Another reason why Doctor Who is so successful is the writing, not just that they stayed true to it's roots. The writing is of a much superior quality than the current Knight Rider, not counting the last few eps, which have been pretty good.

What Knight Rider needs more than trying to bring back KI2T is a consistent and compelling storyline. Thankfully, they are headed in that direction.

Besides, would you really want the old duo back in eps written like the first nine?


You absolutely missed the point.

One show is massive.
the other is not.


It isnt just the writing.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Lynda414 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:59 pm

Yes, one show is massive. It's nearly always been massive. And it's partially because they don't rehash the same old things. They reference the older stuff, but they also do new things, in different ways

Knight Rider is a cult TV show. Even in it's prime, it wasn't as massive as Doctor Who over in the UK.

I just don't think that making the new show exactly like the old one will solve anything. Especially if the writing is poor. ACknowledging the past is one thing that I do think they should do. But if I want to watch TOS, then I will watch TOS.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by cazman101 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:01 pm

I understand what your saying I posted about other shows that have done it like Star trek TNG was a sequel but a new show and included the history from the original Star Trek. I also believe that including past continuity enhances the show because it gives it more of a back story and allows elements to be more fleshed out. I'm really against reboots i find that there aren't many reasons for a reboot the main one being that they can't come up with an original idea so the rework an old one.
And knight rider has a rich history and backstory to draw from that i find it bizzare that some one would task themselves by throwing away a 4 year build and attempt to start from scratch. I'm not saying thats what they've done with KR08 because we really don't know whats going on its a bit of a have they haven't they i don't know situation going on.

I'd also like to draw on the DR Who point about one of the reasons its a success is that the people that are currently making the show were big fans of the show. Russell t Davies, Phil collinson, Nikki Smith and the man himself David Tennant are uber doctor Who geeks and never want to walk far from the classic shows they just like to add to it not change it or pull it out from under you.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Sue » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:34 pm

I don't think I've ever seen Dr Who is it on in America? (I don't have cable :( ) But I do really wish KR had been on in England, I think it would have done well over there. Also sending it over there might have forced them to film snap ins, extra scenes to make up for not having as many commercials as we Americans do. And I bet the extra stuff would be all the good dark stuff NBC cut out.
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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Lynda414 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:46 pm

Sue wrote:I don't think I've ever seen Dr Who is it on in America? (I don't have cable :( ) But I do really wish KR had been on in England, I think it would have done well over there. Also sending it over there might have forced them to film snap ins, extra scenes to make up for not having as many commercials as we Americans do. And I bet the extra stuff would be all the good dark stuff NBC cut out.


As always, you speak truth. I think Knight Rider would do well overseas.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:16 pm

The original series was HUGE all over the world, Hasselhoff said something about it one time that it was bigger than Baywatch, which was and I think is still in the Guinness Book of World Records as the most watched program in the world for when it was on and in its prime.

Oh and I think Dr. Who airs on Sci-Fi here in the US so yeah, it's on cable. "P
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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Diddy1_98 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:27 pm

Hi, I'm new to posting but have been following the fourms for several years. Maybe if KR 2008/09 is given a chance in the US them maybe it will be shown over here in the UK. I'm guessing that the networks don't want a repeat of the Bionic Woman in the UK, where it bombed! BTW I love new version. I think it's gotten much better since Christmas. It was good before b ut much better now. Although the KITT vs KARR battle was a bit short. But I undersatand that was due to budget restrictions!

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by lunchmeat » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:28 pm

I didn't realize that KR2008 wasn't aired in Europe (although I have seen some posts about that on this board, I guess I never made the connection). It's a little surprising, actually, because from what I've read (on wikipedia) Knight Rider was really big in certain areas of Europe.

There are probably a lot of reasons that the show wasn't aired over there, including some I'm not aware of - but I'd guess that NBC has sole production of the show and Ford's target audience was primarily the US. If the show does fail over here, I wonder if it will surface again for an overseas audience? Free from Ford and NBC's influence, it could have a much easier time than it's having here.

Man, I keep getting screwed by the Post Review thing....this should have been there three posts ago :P
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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by DrWho2005 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:00 am

lunchmeat wrote:I didn't realize that KR2008 wasn't aired in Europe (although I have seen some posts about that on this board, I guess I never made the connection). It's a little surprising, actually, because from what I've read (on wikipedia) Knight Rider was really big in certain areas of Europe.

Man, I keep getting screwed by the Post Review thing....this should have been there three posts ago :P



I dont think KR-The Remake is on anywhere except the US.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by DrWho2005 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:10 am

Lynda414 wrote:Yes, one show is massive. It's nearly always been massive. And it's partially because they don't rehash the same old things. They reference the older stuff, but they also do new things, in different ways

Knight Rider is a cult TV show. Even in it's prime, it wasn't as massive as Doctor Who over in the UK.

I just don't think that making the new show exactly like the old one will solve anything. Especially if the writing is poor. ACknowledging the past is one thing that I do think they should do. But if I want to watch TOS, then I will watch TOS.


DrWho DOES rehash stories.
Aliens invade/people being enslaved - doctor comes in, fixes it, flies away.

That show gave and still does give the fans what they want.
And in the late 80's it became unpopular and was cancelled in 89. It came back in 2005 as a direct continuation.
And became huge.
Embracing the past has helped DW, ignoring it has almost killed KR.
Without The Tardis, Daleks, the Theme, the concept....DrWho would NOT be as big as it is.

KR needed to incorporate the past and the present to be a huge success.

The best parts of the 2008 pilot was all the references to the past and the short sequence with MKsnr.
had they had elements from the past such as MK heading up FLAG and an appearance by KITT ( even if it were to die and save KI3T) and had they done the old style missions then i am certain the show would be heading toward season 2 right now.

And lets be honest with ourselves- there wont be a season 2 as much as we might want it.
I think it's sad S2 wont happen. I actually believe that they would bring back past elements and that the show could have been good next season..but it should have been done now, not tomorrow

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:58 am

I believe the series is airing in the Netherlands. I know Australia aired the pilot awhile back also, don't remember if the series got picked up there.
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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by cazman101 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:15 am

At this point I can't see knight Rider coming to the UK. The show hasn't had the best of ratings, its come under some heavy critisism some fair some not so fair And the channel most likely to have picked it up ITV are currently making cut-backs on their spending. If you were a tv channel that had to make cut-backs would you shell out i think its about $40,000 per episode for a show with the reputation this one has. I'm sure if this show had the reviews that CSI or Heroes had then the UK would probably only be a handful of weeks behind th US.

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Diddy1_98 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:22 pm

I think it's a shame that KRNG (Knight Rider Next Generation) won't come to the UK. I think it would be well received here. It's a shame that it's been up against some tough opposition over in the US. And as we all know it's on the night ratings that count!!!!

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Drake » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:56 pm

Sue wrote:I don't think I've ever seen Dr Who is it on in America? (I don't have cable :( ) But I do really wish KR had been on in England, I think it would have done well over there. Also sending it over there might have forced them to film snap ins, extra scenes to make up for not having as many commercials as we Americans do. And I bet the extra stuff would be all the good dark stuff NBC cut out.


Beside being on SciFi, Doctor Who is also on BBC America.
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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Kitzira » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:41 pm

Drake wrote:Beside being on SciFi, Doctor Who is also on BBC America.


Some local PBS's have picked it up the new Who, usually to promote a telethon.

Doctor Who had a following big and wide with a real deep history, complete with its plot holes and continuity errors.. but that following was, what, 30 years in the making? Enthusiasts spend $100s making plywood Tardises in their backyard and they end up as geeky but chic centerpieces, handed down or made by father & son.

When America stepped up in the mid '90s to revive Who with a FOX made tv-movie.. it failed horribly.
When the BBC stepped up in 2005 to revive Who.. it worked wonderfully.

FOX was playing with tv.. BBC had intent to -make- it work.

In America, money is made off good tv shows. In England, money is made off tv taxes paid by you.

NBC has 4 years of KR history, complete with plot holes and continuity errors. And small fandom bases that exist only on these type of forums here. It was also completely destroyed in the mainstream when the main actor went from respectable to laughable. Ya know what my mom remembers of KR? "Gee Mister, what a neat car!" Enthusiasts spend $1000s on Kitt replicas (and then in 6 years, redo them with current technology), and they get weird looks from their friends and family.

There is nothing that KR2008 could of done that Doctor Who 2005 did. They are just not in the same league.
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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by CJaguar442 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:32 am

DrWho2005 wrote:Recently it has seemed that the thing to do in movie world is Prequel or Remake.
In television land it has become Sequel Series.
More and more shows seems to be coming back as follow ons, It isn't a new concept..in the 90's we had shows like Saved By The Bell and Degrassi doing it. But now it is happening a lot more. SHows like 90210, Knight Rider have done it. This year we have Melrose Place coming back.Im sure the A team will come back soon too :-) In most cases they are never as big as the original show was in terms of viewership or popularity.

Since 2005 two shows that were huge cult hits around the world have returned: Doctor Who and of course, Knight Rider.

DOctor Who has gone on to become a massive hit around the world and KR has been a massive failure. DW is so much bigger than it used to be, KR is a joke to most people.

Why is this though?


Russel T Davies bought his own vision to Doctor Who, he upset a lot of people and caused controversy amongst fans with things like gay inuendos and the Doctor kissing a lot.
But he didn't change what the show was, didnt ignore where it came from and certainly didn't alienate the millions of fans who have supported the show for 45 years and will support it forever. The show is such a phenomena that even a cast change or casting speculation makes front page news.

So what has changed about Doctor Who since 1963? A few things on the surface, but underneath it is still recognisable as the same show. A continuation, not a remake, reboot or any other Re words.

It is the same character. He still does the same things. He has grown ( and gotten shorter too!) but he is still the same man saving the universe from the same kind of bad guy.

Some of the enemies are the same as are some of the characters from the last 45 years.
Sarah Jane, Davros, The Daleks, Cybermen. All part of what some call " The Classic Series ".
All popular now. Still.

The Vehicle is the same. The Tardis might have a new interior, but its still the same ole girl that it's driver has always had. Kids love the tardis. My 7 year old has a number of tardis models.

The music has been update, but is reconisable as the Dr Who theme tune.


The BBC aren't embarrased by their show either.

Doctor Who has done everything that Knight Rider has failed to do and has succeeded massively. DW has shown that a show can grow AND still be the same show.

Doctor Who has joined the past with the future and has created something special.

Some KR fans will tell you we need to leave the past behind..have everything new..the past will bring us down..
Wot Rot.

There is a term people use " Standing on Its Own Two Feet".
Stupid term, stupid idea.
There is a reason some of these old shows were big and it isnt just because there wasnt much else on.

Im not suggessting we bring back the real kitt and Michael snr..but i am saying that giving them a look in somewhere wont hurt.
People want an old villian? Well give it to them then. They didnt change the Daleks to be
and Autobot in a different body did they?

NBC annd GST need to learn a lesson from what RTD and the BBC have done.

KR could have done what DW did and become huge, but they havent and it has failed.
Doctor WHo is heading towards it's 30th season, KR is in it's fifth ( as a show called Knight rider with Michael and Kitt..i dont count the spin off show TKR ).

Doctor Number 4 said " This is the ENd but the moment has been prepared for "
Well folks, this is the end of KR and it's time to prepare for it.
I think if we are truly honest with ourselves we will know the show wont be renewed.
Some crazy folk here will say it is because people didnt give it a chance...you know what? They are right. If something you love doesnt turn out the way you want, then you aren;t going to keep it around.

GST and the NBC messed up by ignoring the past.

Thank God for people like Russel t Davies.


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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by pheonix_knight » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:07 pm

KR TNG, if it does make it over to the UK will probably end up on the ' FX' channel or something like that. I dont forsee terrestrial broadcasters showing it, sadly...

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Re: Knight Rider Vs Dr Who - How to be a Successful Sequel

Post by Diddy1_98 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:06 pm

From what I've my point of view. It looks like KR may still have a little fight left in it. Which is a good sign for the UK. I thought this weeks episode was excellent. no transformations, KI3T on his own and a cute kid to aid the plot!

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