PLEASE! Let it die!

[ronni3]

I was disappointed with the episode as a whole. My point is that my opinion of the show has nothing to do with the mostly-fan-generated hype surrounding it.

When NBC hypes a show, you know it. They run commercials for it over and over and over until you're sick of hearing about it. They hardly aired any promotions for KARR, so that's what I meant when I said that I didn't think it was "marketed as epic". And frankly, I think of the fx team as "one of us". If they want to call the battle epic, sure, why not. The battle WAS very cool. If the rest of the episode didn't live up to that, that's another issue.

Many people feel cheated that they didn't connect this KARR to the old KARR. There was a lot of wild theories about how the two shows would be tied together. That's fine, but again let's not blame the marketing people for that. We've had a pretty good idea for months now that this was going to be a new KARR, but people chose to ignore it.

We've all seen the new KARR episode. We don't need to speculate or guess or hype any more. We saw it, we can judge it for what it actually was.

very true...now those who are disappoint take it easy and enjoy the reboot.

[cazman101]

Whilst that works in theory however in practice that fact is if people who are tuning in aren't enjoying it then its more than likely that they will stop watching than put up with it.

me for the most part i'm enjoying it, there are things i would change but thats just me but i do believe the show is getting better. There are things wrong with the show but its getting worked out.

[weeezl]

I was disappointed with the episode as a whole. My point is that my opinion of the show has nothing to do with the mostly-fan-generated hype surrounding it.

When NBC hypes a show, you know it. They run commercials for it over and over and over until you're sick of hearing about it. They hardly aired any promotions for KARR, so that's what I meant when I said that I didn't think it was "marketed as epic". And frankly, I think of the fx team as "one of us". If they want to call the battle epic, sure, why not. The battle WAS very cool. If the rest of the episode didn't live up to that, that's another issue.

Many people feel cheated that they didn't connect this KARR to the old KARR. There was a lot of wild theories about how the two shows would be tied together. That's fine, but again let's not blame the marketing people for that. We've had a pretty good idea for months now that this was going to be a new KARR, but people chose to ignore it.

We've all seen the new KARR episode. We don't need to speculate or guess or hype any more. We saw it, we can judge it for what it actually was.

I agree.

My biggest problem was that I had hyped it up so much that I knew that it had to be nothing short of spectacular to live up to it. I spent hours and hours messing with what little footage was available to make my fan teasers, trying to make the scenes longer and more exiting to me. I posted on other fan forums about the Epic battle (I had built up in my head) told everybody I possibly could about it to try add to the hype machine but all I really did was drive myself Karr mad hoping it would be immense.

It was'nt a bad episode, it was'nt an amazing episode, I enjoyed it none the less and I do honestly feel I would have liked it more if I had'nt of turned myself into a victim of my own hype.

I thought the VFX were great and very convincing, the fight did look wicked, well done MasterKey and I also loved the nods to the original series.

On a side note, I showed the battle to my GF and she laughed at it saying "your teaser was longer than that" leading to me getting all defensive of the show and telling her to go away and watch her stupid childish soap opera's

[PHOENIXZERO]

The "fight" wasn't the problem, the problem was KARR only showing up only near the end and having less than four minutes of screen time and being taken out in such a speedy manner that made it anti-climatic, all that build up and he gets punked out in a manner of minutes, maybe seconds. Not to mention the total lack of any real explanation for something that was supposedly meant to be the big arc of these first 12 episodes.

[knightny]

The "fight" wasn't the problem, the problem was KARR only showing up only near the end and having less than four minutes of screen time and being taken out in such a speedy manner that made it anti-climatic, all that build up and he gets punked out in a manner of minutes, maybe seconds. Not to mention the total lack of any real explanation for something that was supposedly meant to be the big arc of these first 12 episodes.

So true. Lots of hype, lots of potential and a total letdown.....but I guess it's the fault of the fans.......

[kitt1]

Hey bro...What are you 12 years old and a homophobe? "Southern Nights" was also a song by Glen Campbell in the late 70s. Who cares? I'm a happily married man. The SOUTHERN KNIGHTS is a KR conversion get together that I put on in the Atlanta area. Thus the name SOUTHERN KNIGHTS. I personally thought it was a catchy name. Also, everyone else, apparently except you, has seemed to like it. What does your childish comment have to do with this thread?

You may not be aware of this -- but, "Southern Nights" is a really big chain of Gay Bars in the Southeast...

I will say it's interesting that you seem to know this.

Mark Puette
SOUTHERN KNIGHTS

I'm sorry, but after seeing last nights episode with KARR, the only humane thing to do would be to PULL THE PLUG.

Mark Puette
SOUTHERN KNIGHTS

Hey bro... You may want to rethink that signature.
You may not be aware of this -- but, "Southern Nights" is a really big chain of Gay Bars in the Southeast....

[Lost Knight]

I would compare the inclusion of K.A.R.R. in this series to that of Venom in Spider-Man 3. Both characters are supposed to be more or less evil twins of the heroes and both were completely snubbed with screen time when it came down to the final showdown. It's general knowledge that Sam Raimi didn't want to include the character of Venom in his movie because he didn't like the character and/or felt his story wouldn't translate well to the screen. He only included him because of pressure from fans and the movie studio, which doesn't sound far off from what occurred with Knight Rider. Is it possible that Gary Scott Thompson felt the same way about K.A.R.R. and only included him because of popular demand?

Let me be clear on my opinions about the episode. In and of itself, for the most part, it's a typical episode whose purpose was to create a bridge for the show's retooling. The episode succeeded at that. The fight itself (all 3 minutes of it) was pretty cool and there were even a few classic K.I.T.T. moves that were well-used and a pleasant surprise to see used. The C.G.I. effects were pretty cool, too. The problem is I don't think K.A.R.R. should have been a plot point in this episode at all. Some fans say this should have been a 2-parter, I say they should have saved K.A.R.R. for another episode altogether. This episode should have stuck to its real purpose and only its real purpose, which was to be a transitionary episode.

[WIBoomer1]

As far back as ComicCon, GST made the comments about KARR being not forgotten. This is before the show was aired at all. He also made the comment that he had arcs planned all along for the first 13 eps, and then for some more, and then a little more for the rest of the season, and even something if they got to a 2nd season.

We just wished that GST's vision had been a little more focused from the get go about what made TOS work in the first place, instead of placing emphasis on his' reputation.

[TravisKnight01]

Can i just say it kinda makes me sad all of us all of a sudden turning are back on the cast and crew of kr just because they didnt do what everyone wanted.I had some hardcore hardcore orignal fans say they loved the episode last night.They loved it beginning to end.Now for the most part from people i talked to they gave the episode a 10 out a 10 for the complete episode.I really dont see where all this hate is coming from but we are not helping ourselfs here dissing the show and hoping it ends.I love this show just as much as the orignal series which i first saw as reruns as a kid.Sorry i just had to say that because this is knight rider wether you like or not.


Travis Furness

[Mr.Marcus]

I would compare the inclusion of K.A.R.R. in this series to that of Venom in Spider-Man 3. Both characters are supposed to be more or less evil twins of the heroes and both were completely snubbed with screen time when it came down to the final showdown. It's general knowledge that Sam Raimi didn't want to include the character of Venom in his movie because he didn't like the character and/or felt his story wouldn't translate well to the screen. He only included him because of pressure from fans and the movie studio, which doesn't sound far off from what occurred with Knight Rider. Is it possible that Gary Scott Thompson felt the same way about K.A.R.R. and only included him because of popular demand?

Let me be clear on my opinions about the episode. In and of itself, for the most part, it's a typical episode whose purpose was to create a bridge for the show's retooling. The episode succeeded at that. The fight itself (all 3 minutes of it) was pretty cool and there were even a few classic K.I.T.T. moves that were well-used and a pleasant surprise to see used. The C.G.I. effects were pretty cool, too. The problem is I don't think K.A.R.R. should have been a plot point in this episode at all. Some fans say this should have been a 2-parter, I say they should have saved K.A.R.R. for another episode altogether. This episode should have stuck to its real purpose and only its real purpose, which was to be a transitionary episode.

Either GST or NBC doesn't get it. As bad as the movie was, Andron showed that he got the mythology. It doesn't necessarily mean his version would have been better. I mean let's face it, the movie wasn't all that great story wise. But I suspect his take on KARR would have been a lot more substantial. I'm puzzled as to why KARR wasn't included much more. If the CG was too expensive, would it have been that complex to just have KARR in mustang form drive around wreaking havoc and corruption? It doesn't make any sense. Its almost like whoever penned this story knew that KARR was KITT's nemesis but didn't know the history or what made KARR tick and just put him in at the end as a token villain. The creative forces aren't very knowledgeable about the heart or the history of TOS.

[knightny]

I'm puzzled as to why KARR wasn't included much more. If the CG was too expensive, would it have been that complex to just have KARR in mustang form drive around wreaking havoc and corruption? It doesn't make any sense. Its almost like whoever penned this story knew that KARR was KITT's nemesis but didn't know the history or what made KARR tick and just put him in at the end as a token villain. The creative forces aren't very knowledgeable about the heart or the history of TOS.

It's because these writers are just not talented enough. Unless it's copying Transformers, they cant come up with a battle scene on their own. I'm surprised GST didnt take out the Billy X-Box scene and add a Fast and the Furious drag race scene between KITT and KARR....

[Kaine]

Either GST or NBC doesn't get it. As bad as the movie was, Andron showed that he got the mythology. It doesn't necessarily mean his version would have been better. I mean let's face it, the movie wasn't all that great story wise. But I suspect his take on KARR would have been a lot more substantial. I'm puzzled as to why KARR wasn't included much more. If the CG was too expensive, would it have been that complex to just have KARR in mustang form drive around wreaking havoc and corruption? It doesn't make any sense. Its almost like whoever penned this story knew that KARR was KITT's nemesis but didn't know the history or what made KARR tick and just put him in at the end as a token villain. The creative forces aren't very knowledgeable about the heart or the history of TOS.

my best guess is that it's GST who doesn't get it!
maybe you've read the interview where GST admits that it was NBC that wanted the reboot and kinda forced him to do it. GST was it, who wanted a bigger cast, transformations, government connection and all those sh***y things we got with the transiton from the backdoor pilot to the series. in every interview GST said the same hollow phrases: "KR must be cooler, hipper, with more action, more T&A..." you could say he wanted a show for the braindead.
the backdoor pilot sure wasn't perfect, mainly due to a weak story, thanks to the writers' strike... but the pilot at least set the scene for rebuilding FLAG and honoured the legacy/mythology that came with the name Knight Rider. GST on the other hand has no interest in, nor respect for KR TOS. why else would he try to copy transformers, ocean's 11, alias/24 or many other show, when it would be the obvious choice to take inspiration from TOS. instead all we get is random KR names and hints thrown (bonnie, devon, karr) with no connection to the past.
if he wants to know how to do it right, he should take a look at star trek the next generation. while this show was largely on his own, it at least honored the original star trek and build upon it.

anyway... i just hope that NBC's reboot will give us what new Knight Rider should have been in the first place, that it ain't to late. but the damage is already done and there won't be a Knight Rider if this show fails, so we have to make this work!

[Kaine]

sorry for the double-post, just wanted to add what IGN had to say about 'the damage already being done', but it was to late to edit my previous post.

The problem with Knight Rider is that it made us endure a long filthy stream of badness before it could even remotely begin to get interesting. The thinning down of the character herd was nice, and the fact that everyone, for the most part, is out of the damn lab in this episode gives everything a more exciting feel.

[Knight-Armen]

The "fight" wasn't the problem, the problem was KARR only showing up only near the end and having less than four minutes of screen time and being taken out in such a speedy manner that made it anti-climatic, all that build up and he gets punked out in a manner of minutes, maybe seconds. Not to mention the total lack of any real explanation for something that was supposedly meant to be the big arc of these first 12 episodes.

This is the point I was trying to get across. Well said right there.

Now Mr. Pajaro claims that there was next to no promotions for Karr... well maybe that's true; however, I got the feeling that we were bombarded with it. Lot's of trailers and footage telling us about the epic battle between Ki3t and Karr. When the episode finally aired it only lasted for like 3-5 minutes! What's up with that? Also, you would expect Karr to have some laser weapons and what not, but no. All he did was to swing his arms until Ki3t finally turbo boosted into his chest to put an end to his misery. Some members have been saying that Karr is going to return but how? Are they going to glue his pieces together, that's a pretty difficult task judging from what happened to him.

I find this very weird because Karr was able to transform into a Mustang and vice versa. Now if Karr is Ki3t's prototype then Ki3t should be able to transform into a robot as well. In either case they both are pretty useless as robots, we've witnessed that. All Karr was good for was bad mouthing Ki3t and now only God knows if he will return and in what condition, maybe an airplane?

[PunkMaister]

Now Mr. Pajaro claims that there was next to no promotions for Karr... well maybe that's true; however, I got the feeling that we were bombarded with it. Lot's of trailers and footage telling us about the epic battle between Ki3t and Karr. When the episode finally aired it only lasted for like 3-5 minutes! What's up with that? Also, you would expect Karr to have some laser weapons and what not, but no. All he did was to swing his arms until Ki3t finally turbo boosted into his chest to put an end to his misery.

Actually he fired some sort of machine guns at KITT.

Some members have been saying that Karr is going to return but how? Are they going to glue his pieces together, that's a pretty difficult task judging from what happened to him.

The original blew to pieces after falling off a bridge so what's new?

I find this very weird because Karr was able to transform into a Mustang and vice versa. Now if Karr is Ki3t's prototype then Ki3t should be able to transform into a robot as well. In either case they both are pretty useless as robots, we've witnessed that. All Karr was good for was bad mouthing Ki3t and now only God knows if he will return and in what condition, maybe an airplane?

The TOS KARR was a prototype for KITT but the resurexted KARR was an strictly military project.

[Knight-Armen]

The original blew to pieces after falling off a bridge so what's new?

Ahh, but you see he never drove off the cliff. If you look closely it's not even a Pontiac being pushed of that edge.

[t.b.77b]

I loved the show and give it at least a 9 out of 10 if not a 10 I like TOS but I do believe that many haters are hardcor OS fans and don't like a modern version of a TV wise old show (not saying the 80's are old so please don't get mad at me .) I also agree that I did not see hardly any promotions for the show and blame NBC for the show possibly failing (even though I hope not I love this show and hate having to watch it late on my DVR cause of being a church running sound equipment.)

[Rainack]

There was very little "KITT vs KARR" footage. In fact, as the episode was past the 3/4 point, I actually thought that they were going to make it a 2 part episode. The great thing about the original KARR encounters was that there was back and forth interaction between Michael/KITT and KARR. This KR makes everything look too easy.
Mark Puette
SOUTHERN KNIGHTS

I'm reserving judgement for the next few episodes as to whether the series should be canceled, but I was VERY disapointed in last night's episode.
I too looked at the clock 3/4 through and thought that this was going to be a 2 parter. Then I looked at the info, and it didn't say anything about it being part 1 of 2. There was definetly not enough interaction with KARR with anyone! He was just a non-entity to me. I didn't care about him at all.
I was disappointed in the flashback Mike had. I thought there should have been some interaction between him and KARR. Maybe they had been buddies, up until the point when KARR killed those people. I really saw no reason for KARR to be trying to kill KITT to get Mike back as a driver. He had Torres. Torres should have been sufficient. The old KARR didn't care who drove him, so long as he could manipulate them to do what he wanted. Plus, the way he was tossing KITT around, he would have killed Mike in the process. The whole thing just was too short and didn't work.

I also was so disappointed that they didn't tell us if this was a new KARR or not.

Ok. I guess I'm done ranting.

[HisNameisGarth]

Hey bro...What are you 12 years old and a homophobe? "Southern Nights" was also a song by Glen Campbell in the late 70s. Who cares? I'm a happily married man. The SOUTHERN KNIGHTS is a KR conversion get together that I put on in the Atlanta area. Thus the name SOUTHERN KNIGHTS. I personally thought it was a catchy name. Also, everyone else, apparently except you, has seemed to like it. What does your childish comment have to do with this thread?

You may not be aware of this -- but, "Southern Nights" is a really big chain of Gay Bars in the Southeast...

I will say it's interesting that you seem to know this.

Mark Puette
SOUTHERN KNIGHTS

I'm sorry, but after seeing last nights episode with KARR, the only humane thing to do would be to PULL THE PLUG.

Mark Puette
SOUTHERN KNIGHTS

Hey bro... You may want to rethink that signature.
You may not be aware of this -- but, "Southern Nights" is a really big chain of Gay Bars in the Southeast....

Just giving you a heads up, that's all.
Do as you wish.

If you ever drop the term in public -- and a dude tries to squeeze your rear and flirt, you'll know why.
I wouldn't be surprised if people assume that what you are organizing is more than a car get-together -- if you know what I mean.

[weeezl]

If you ever drop the term in public -- and a dude tries to squeeze your rear and flirt, you'll know why.
I wouldn't be surprised if people assume that what you are organizing is more than a car get-together -- if you know what I mean.

Umm.... dood this could get uncomfortable for others, I see where youre coming from but some people may feel uneasy reading that.

[HisNameisGarth]

If you ever drop the term in public -- and a dude tries to squeeze your rear and flirt, you'll know why.
I wouldn't be surprised if people assume that what you are organizing is more than a car get-together -- if you know what I mean.

Umm.... dood this could get uncomfortable for others, I see where youre coming from but some people may feel uneasy reading that.

True, and I'll pipe down now.
I think he just should be aware of what he is "advertising" by using that term.

It is implying a similar theme as to going to a massage parlor or using an "escort" service.
It is obvious that he didn't know the full meaning of the term. He spells it differently, but it is pronounced
identically -- which could cause a misunderstanding in public. That was my point.

Just be careful what you say in public, that is my advice:
http://orlando.citysearch.com/profile/2 ... ights.html

[lunchmeat]

Also, you would expect Karr to have some laser weapons and what not, but no. All he did was to swing his arms until Ki3t finally turbo boosted into his chest to put an end to his misery. Some members have been saying that Karr is going to return but how? Are they going to glue his pieces together, that's a pretty difficult task judging from what happened to him.

I find this very weird because Karr was able to transform into a Mustang and vice versa. Now if Karr is Ki3t's prototype then Ki3t should be able to transform into a robot as well. In either case they both are pretty useless as robots, we've witnessed that. All Karr was good for was bad mouthing Ki3t and now only God knows if he will return and in what condition, maybe an airplane?

Dude, did you see the fight? KARR had HUGE machineguns on his shoulders, not to mention missiles. If you watch the extended PreVis on Youtube, you'll also see that he had a laser. Additionally, "swinging his arms" isn't really trivial - he did a lot of damage to KI3T just by hitting him. I dunno, man, but a car fighting a huge battle robot and winning will always be epic in my book.

KARR can easily return - he is an amalgamation of KI3T's programming and KARR's base form. This was a government project; the robot was just a shell. What will stop them from building a new exoskeleton? How do we know that the NSA didn't make a backup of KARR's final programming? There are a lot of ways for KARR to come back - we just have to wait and see what happens.

KARR is KI3T's prototype in programming only. There's no correlation between their physical forms.

I was disappointed in the flashback Mike had. I thought there should have been some interaction between him and KARR. Maybe they had been buddies, up until the point when KARR killed those people. I really saw no reason for KARR to be trying to kill KITT to get Mike back as a driver.

Don't forget - we know that KARR was a prototype for KI3T, but we don't know if he was a conscious, sentient being. We know that he needed a driver. It's feasible (and absolutely plausible) that KARR, before the integration of KI3T's programming and chip, was not sentient - he may have been autonomous, but perhaps he was unable to communicate or be aware of his actions. Hence, the need for KI3T's higher-level AI. (This also resolves Torre's line - "KI3T's chip isn't plug and play - we've got to reconcile it with KARR's programming" (or something along those lines, sorry for not having a direct quote.))

As for KARR getting Mike back as a driver...I thought it was an interesting plot point. KARR stated that they were supposed to be together, that they would be "one" - I'd offer some explanation about brain-pattern imprinting, or something, but it'd be pure speculation out of nowhere. All I can say is that I like this plot point, because if KARR does ever return, Michael Knight will be his primary target and KARR will stop at nothing to obtain him.

[neps]

Now Mr. Pajaro claims that there was next to no promotions for Karr... well maybe that's true; however, I got the feeling that we were bombarded with it. Lot's of trailers and footage telling us about the epic battle between Ki3t and Karr. When the episode finally aired it only lasted for like 3-5 minutes!

While I will agree that it would have been better for KARR to be in the episode longer, I think your memory is focused on the macro world as a Knight Rider fan. Outside our world (and KRO pushing every little KARR thing we found down your collective throats) there really was no official NBC push for this episode.

Did you see Justin on Today Show, Leno or Conan? I didn't. How about watch any NBC programing on other nights, cause I did. I watched three hours of the Obama parade and saw one 10 second promo. Tuesday night prime time and late night tv, the DAY BEFORE this episode, there wasn't a single commercial.

I think that this episode was blown up in a lot of peoples minds - and that's understandable - because KARR is as important to some as KITT. But I compared it to being an Apple fan - any time they are going to have a product annoucement, the rumor mills go wild and crazy and then everyone gets pissed at Apple when they just update a laptop. It's the same thing here - we put KARR on a pedestal they could never hope to reach.

I don't necessarily blame GST or anyone on the cast or crew for this episodes "failure" (and by failure I mean it's lack of audience), I blame NBC. Since the pilot there level of support of the show has taken a steady nose dive. On the PR realm, we used to get clips and photos in advance, now we're lucky if we get a text synopsis. Again, we locally here might have been bombarded - but no one else was.

[jshorva65]

I have to DISAGREE!!! While KARR-E did have too-little screen time and the fight scene was so short as to be anticlimactic to the EPISODE itself, the writers could turn the revelations from this episode into an infinite number of future arcs of plot. For example, my understanding was that KARR-E was developed as a military robot-tank vehicle with an AI "personality" whose fatal flaw was its primary directive of "self preservation" instead of "protection of human life" and that its deadly rogue personality arose directly from its lack of regard for human life as more important than itself. Wasn't it Isaac Asmimov who wrote that robots must respect their human creators above themselves? That Hearst character is still out there, we don't know if Torres lived or died after KARR-E was destroyed, and one can assume the Federal goons of the NSA wouldn't destroy any copies of the KARR-E schematics, blueprints, and program source code they have or return them to Knight Industries. I hope the series continues, as it's the only show on my weekly "must watch" list.

Now that Mike knows the truth, one possible plot arc or series of plot arcs could be that Mike regains pieces of those allegedly-destroyed memories, complete with dream sequences in which past interactions with KARR-E are revealed. All of that could lead up to the two-part cliffhanger-divided KI3T-vs-KARR-E episode we all hoped to see last night. I plan to keep watching. I'm hoping the audience sticks with it and the writers can build it into the three or four seasons that I see potential for. Government/military projects as big as KARR-E don't die quite that easily in real life, even when the first attempts are miserable failures, so I expect Hearst and his NSA goons to keep trying to build their ultimate killer robot-tank and for Hearst to make at least a few more attempts to carry out his threat against Mike and Sarah. The angle of disgruntled Feds trying to "off" the ones who keep proving to them that their killer-robot is just too dangerous to continue pursuing is something I expect and hope to see as a recurring subplot in one or more future episodes. There are a lot of people besides Hearst (what ever happened to Garthe Knight?) who would, no doubt, have an ax or two to grind here. There are faces friendly to Knight Industries who I also half expect occasional recurring (but not weekly) appearances of ... Hasselhoff as some official of Knight Industries seems like a strong possibility if he can stay away from the bottle long enough.

Overall, the show has a lot of potential for subplot complexity ... the continuation of the original visions of Wilton Knight, Michael Knight Sr. as a Board member or something, NSA revenge plots, KARR-E, Garthe, or even a return of Charles Graiman since there seem,s to have not been any mention of his body being recovered from the plane, the use of the word "Service" instead of "Funeral" implies a Memorial Service as is held for those missing and presumed dead. Even if the show comes across as "predictable" that's not necessarily a bad thing. In every episode of KR1982, we always knew MK Sr and KI2T would defeat whatever enemy they went up against each week ... and the biggest draw for watching was to see HOW they got out of those situations where things looked really bad JUST in time to turn things around and win the day.

[BlackKitt]

Never Surrender, Never say die.