Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Archive for discussions from 2009. Please post new discussions in the appropriate forum.

Moderators: Matthew, neps, Michael Pajaro

Locked
damianinpa
Stranger
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:54 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by damianinpa » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:00 am

This episode started out great, but, was a dissappointment. Kitt Vs Karr battle was so quick, if you got up to get a drink, you would missed it. The original series did a much better job with this. The whole thing made no sense..I guess Karr didn't have his molecular bonded shell anymore. Also, huge missed opportunity when they are showing Kitt's life on the monitors...they should have paid homage to the original series there by showing pics of the old KItt and the Hoff. Fans would appreciate that. Overall, Kitt has very little personality in this series and I'm not that impressed with the chemistry with him/Michael Jr. I say, Get the Hoff to guest star and try and save this thing!
On a side note, the chick in the series is Smoking HOt! Showing her skin every week does keep me coming back. lol

User avatar
GarthKnight08
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:16 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by GarthKnight08 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:00 am

Tony P Knight Driver wrote:
There by saying the first KITT and the first KARR did exist 25 yers ago.


Ok by that your saying Charles was a complete moron to build another KARR with almost the same self preserving characteristics as the first one completely forgetting what happened last time when original KARR got lose right? Its very clear dear Tony that the original KITT & KARR never existed in this "creative license" & that the Febuary pilot has nothing to do with this series we got until now that they mentioned Wilton & FLAG but now the original mythology doesnt match up at all. How can we have Michael Knight, Wilton & FLAG but have no original KITT or KARR? Im not saying have them appear in the series like most want but thats what i was saying didnt make any sense!
Founder of OKA (Original KITT Anonymous)
If you need to get out feelings of loss for the Original KITT then we can help!

User avatar
Skav
FLAG Operative
Posts: 1999
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: England, UK
Contact:

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Skav » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:15 am

Okay, I think the KARR in this episode was a brand new one after all.......

In the scene when Mike is listening to Graimen's hologram explaining his past with KARR, Graimen says that KITT was developed in the wake of KARR's failure. Now, I am sure he wasn't talking about the original KITT. He was talking about KI3T.

If they really wanted to put a KITT cpu in KARR, why not take the one from the original instead?

So for me, it was a brand new KARR. It wasn't the original.

User avatar
Knight Racer
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 3326
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Brooklyn
Contact:

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Knight Racer » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:18 am

Anyone else wonder why this exoskeleton called karr was used for military use,how a simple missile to the front chasis didn't blow him away years ago?All it took was a projectile of 2-3 tons to ram the creation and poof bye bye karr.I mean theirs no healing nanoskin or MBS coating on this thing.
Last edited by Knight Racer on Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Skav
FLAG Operative
Posts: 1999
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: England, UK
Contact:

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Skav » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:22 am

Knight Racer wrote:Anyone else wonder why this exoskeleton called karr was used for military use,how a simple missile to the front chasis didn't blow him away years ago?All it took was a projectile of 2-3 tons to ram the creation and poof bye bye karr.


Yes, I did wonder why it didn't have the nano skin considering it could morph. Or at least some form of the MBS.

bige
Rookie
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:09 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by bige » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:22 am

That is how the orginial series was kind when KARR first appear in Trust Dosen't Rust, in TOS when Devon tells Michael about KARR, he kind almost says some similar, but in the TOS Devon just mention that KARRs programing had a glitch in and then they had to shut down KARR and that is why Wilton Knight Built the kitt in the TOS.


I'm wondering could Dr. Graimen, be part of the Wilton Knight Family

Or Dr. Graimen was just second in command at F.L.A.G, since it anything happen to Wilton Knight Graimen would take over.

User avatar
KamenRider
Recruit
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:34 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by KamenRider » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:24 am

I agree with the idea that it should have been a two-parter. One to tie off the thing with the SCC and Torres. The other to focus on KITT vs. KARR action.

I think to that the advertising for the show was a bit misleading because it acts as though the entire episode is going to be about the showdown with KARR and KITT when really what it does is introduce the character into the main plot. It'd be kind of like if the very first appearence of the Borg had been advertised to look like Best of Both Worlds. Remember they debuted in an episode where Q was the main villain. (Okay, now I'm up two mentions of Star Trek in the same damn thread. Sorry.)

User avatar
goldbug
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:31 pm
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: A world where criminals operate above the law

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by goldbug » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:25 am

SerenityNow wrote:So, why did KARR need KITTs personality and program? Did they get it? Was it "copied" or "moved" to the internet? I know they said it was needed to override KARR's evil personality, but why not remove the original personality altogether? Why would KITT not wake up in that chassis? Did it have any effect at all?

Mike explained that they needed KITT's AI to make a more "compliant" AI, so the hope was that by putting KITT's AI into KARR, it would make him easier to control. However, since KITT beamed himself to the internet, there was no "compliant personality" there to keep KARR in check. Chaos ensues. 8)

SerenityNow wrote:Why did KARR *need* to bond to a driver, and why would he want Mike back now that he has Torres (surely Torres has superior information).

KARR was originally designed to work in tandem with a driver, so it's core to his programming. Specifically, he was designed to work best with Mike, not Torres. While Torres was "acceptable", it didn't make him "ideal". Any physiological/technological reasons are up to speculation however.

SerenityNow wrote:How did KARR know Michael Knight was Mike Traceur? As far as I can tell, he never saw the driver inside KITT, unless someone told him, if he searched databases, he'd find Mike T is dead?

Torres knew Mike's real identity, so considering him being bonded to KARR it makes sense. As for seeing inside KITT, I doubt it was hard, all he would have to do is use his handy dandy scanners and look inside KITT's windshield.

SerenityNow wrote:KARR caught KITT awful fast? Did KARR have a Attack Mode (other than super robot, which was LAME!)?

In "television time" KARR actually had plenty of time between grabbing Torres and all the stuff that happened in between. I didn't feel or see any real time disparity.

SerenityNow wrote:Why the hatred of KITT? Fear KITT would shut him down, the original KARR was never afraid of KITT, he felt him inferior...

I didn't see it as "hatred", which I liked. Instead of an emotional reason for wanting KITT dead, it was purely because he was an obstacle for KARR getting to Mike, giving this KARR a very interesting motivation instead of just being "evil" or feeling KITT was an "inferior line copy".

SerenityNow wrote:This could have been an amazing 2 parter, or a great setup for a recurring villian. Having a 2 minute battle and ending with KARRs destruction was lame!

Honestly, I think it WAS a set up for KARR's return. One thing all people (whether they liked or did not like the ep) is that everyone wanted more of KARR. Bringing him back would be awesome. :)
"One man can make a difference." - Michael Knight (2008)

User avatar
sarfraz
FLAG Assistant
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: London, UK

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by sarfraz » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:32 am

I'm going to try to make some sense of this KARR so bear with me. The way I figure it, the original KITT and KARR existed in this series. KITT is the more compliant (said so in this ep) of the two. From a miltary point of view, it would have made more sense to use the original KARR as the basis for THIS new KARR. How or what this means interms of tech I'll leave that aside for the moment. KARR's hardwired program was to self perserve at all costs compared to KITTs human preservation. Okay, thats been blurred in this new series but stick with it as we would be talking about TOS KITT. KI3T has obviously had a revised hardcoded program.

So from TOS point of view, it would have been a more reasonable choice to use the KARR unit as it had already shown a destruct nature. They would have tried to tame that, rather than dismantle a KITT still potentially in operation and with a different hardwired program.

This gets us to this point. We don't know whats happened to KI2T. KARR proved to be difficult to tame thus the whole KI3T project......makes sense right :?

Anyway, I did really enjoy the whole ep. Yes the ending felt short but the battle felt intense. I suppose they could have held off at stand point for a witty banter but this didn't quite feel like it needed it.

Sarfraz
"I would not sell yourself short Michael, you are much more than a horse"

Mr.Marcus
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:13 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Mr.Marcus » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:34 am

Mike Knight wrote:Well, that was the single biggest disappointment I've ever had related to a television series, let alone this whole series. What a rushed, wasted opportunity.

I personally think the people who were overall pleased with the episode are certifiably insane. And I don't care how cruel that sounds.

I had my smaller problems with the episode, such as the pacing and the cramming-in of information that should be important to us but isn't because it's all thrown at us. The revelations in Mike's past should have been more meaningful, but was blurted out as fast as possible for time. The contemporary music was atrocious. Wouldn't the resuce of KITT have been better with the Knight Rider theme playing triumphantly?

But my biggest problem? The bait-and-switch, just as I had feared it would be. And was fooled into thinking it wasn't, for a while. KARR-in-name-only. What a waste. All signs point to the show being a continuation of TOS (even in tonight's episode!), and the BIGGEST part, the thing that could have tied KR08 and TOS together, KARR, wasn't even the same character!

It wasn't important to me that they explain how he was resurrected from the bridge site. I didn't care about that. As long as they confirmed it was the same AI, I was content to fill in the blanks with my imagination (a'la KARR surviving at the end of TDR). But the idea of a doppelganger form, the yellow scanner, the name and ESPECIALLY the re-casting of Peter Cullen, was all to go toward the biggest bait-and-switch in TV history. All signs pointed to the same AI, finally, a recurring character, a drawing-on of TOS mythology, and it turns out it was all just to hook fools like me into being interested. GST/NBC latched onto the name of a well known piece of KR history/mythology, and just used it to draw interest, without even giving a damn about what kind of expectations it stirred. How sickening.

But worse than that was how unimpressive KARR-E was in the grand scheme of things. He was just a one-off, completely unmemorable villain. Nothing special in his introduction. He was just... there. Transformed, rolled out. No fancy reveal. Nothing atmopsheric or dramatic or even intimidating. And then the fight is woefully short. Was the CGI impressive? Hell yes. The guys at MasterKey outdid themselves, but for what? I couldn't give a damn about the character in the end. There was nothing special about KARR-E or the fight, period. The coolest part was the Turbo Boost-in-regular mode (something that looks MUCH better than ugly Attack Mode TB), but it was such an easy defeat for a character that was hyped up as so "awesome and intimidating," when he was neither. And not even a bone thrown to hope for his return, not that I care to see it. Two minutes of a useless fight that I had no emotional investment in. The battle of TOS's 'KVK' was infinitely better, and NOT because it was TOS, but because it was simply handled much better, by, well, people who know better how to make television.

The disappointment of this has turned me off to the show. Not even the end tag about Wilton and restarting FLAG will keep me watching. I'm done with it, not going to even ride out the rest of the season. And it wasn't even that bad of an episode! But the fact that my expectations were used to trick me (basically) actually angers me a lot, which is a surprise even to me.

The worst part of the whole affair was that it was not KARR. Had it been confirmed to be the same AI? That would have made the sting far, far less. Had they just NOT committed the bait-and-switch and called it "KRO," without the Peter Cullen casting? I wouldn't have had a problem with the episode, at all.

The use of the name and the voice was PURELY to decieve. And that says it all about the show. GST has no idea how to handle the show right for it being a continuation (which every sign, including tonight's episode, has indicated that it is supposed to be). The pilot showed that David Andron had infinitely more intention of being faithful to the continuity of TOS in HIS continuation concept. If he had been handling the series version in the first place, the show would have been written better from the beginning, and KARR would have been the same AI, with the carry-over explained enough to properly appease the fans that expected it. This is just the icing on the *?$# cake that is GST's Knight Rider.

At this point, I don't care if we get a second season, and up until tonight, I was all for it. If you're going to use TOS concepts (like, well, a character FROM TOS), do it right or don't do it at all.


Very well said. I was hoping the KARR episode would be it. The one that completely changed my opinion of this show. But it was a wasted chance. Like I said, I don't mind the exposition but if you're gonna spend that much time going through the techno babble then spend the next hour showing KITT and KARR duke it out. Just a few quick sparring sessions and the climax they did at the end would have done wonders for the episode. They don't have to be more stunts or CG, just having the Mustangs face each other and exchange words in confrontation would have been fine, which is what they did in TOS. The ending of the episode wasn't bad and the CG was well done. But it felt rushed b/c there was no buildup to it. No chance to have KITT and KARR exchange animosities. The last part you said is how I feel as well. If they still can't figure it out after 3 tries at it, I'd rather they cancel it than keep going on.

User avatar
PHOENIXZERO
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2363
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:20 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: MI

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:37 am

damianinpa wrote:This episode started out great, but, was a dissappointment. Kitt Vs Karr battle was so quick, if you got up to get a drink, you would missed it. The original series did a much better job with this. The whole thing made no sense..I guess Karr didn't have his molecular bonded shell anymore. Also, huge missed opportunity when they are showing Kitt's life on the monitors...they should have paid homage to the original series there by showing pics of the old KItt and the Hoff. Fans would appreciate that. Overall, Kitt has very little personality in this series and I'm not that impressed with the chemistry with him/Michael Jr. I say, Get the Hoff to guest star and try and save this thing!
On a side note, the chick in the series is Smoking HOt! Showing her skin every week does keep me coming back. lol


Why would they do that when this KITT isn't meant to be the original KITT? That is if the Knight Industries Two-Thousand ever existed at all in this new series. Where would this KARR get the MBS?
The new and again improved evil's advertisement is currently too long and too badass to display here. But let's just say that with now 50% more evil, this **** is great! :twisted: :skar:

Lexicon
Operative
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:28 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Lexicon » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am

Okay, it's time to have a master FAQ on KRO for the new series. People are clearly misunderstanding what is going on.

User avatar
Lost Knight
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2716
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:45 pm
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Lost Knight » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 am

Mike Knight wrote:Well, that was the single biggest disappointment I've ever had related to a television series, let alone this whole series. What a rushed, wasted opportunity.

I personally think the people who were overall pleased with the episode are certifiably insane. And I don't care how cruel that sounds.

I had my smaller problems with the episode, such as the pacing and the cramming-in of information that should be important to us but isn't because it's all thrown at us. The revelations in Mike's past should have been more meaningful, but was blurted out as fast as possible for time. The contemporary music was atrocious. Wouldn't the resuce of KITT have been better with the Knight Rider theme playing triumphantly?

But my biggest problem? The bait-and-switch, just as I had feared it would be. And was fooled into thinking it wasn't, for a while. KARR-in-name-only. What a waste. All signs point to the show being a continuation of TOS (even in tonight's episode!), and the BIGGEST part, the thing that could have tied KR08 and TOS together, KARR, wasn't even the same character!

It wasn't important to me that they explain how he was resurrected from the bridge site. I didn't care about that. As long as they confirmed it was the same AI, I was content to fill in the blanks with my imagination (a'la KARR surviving at the end of TDR). But the idea of a doppelganger form, the yellow scanner, the name and ESPECIALLY the re-casting of Peter Cullen, was all to go toward the biggest bait-and-switch in TV history. All signs pointed to the same AI, finally, a recurring character, a drawing-on of TOS mythology, and it turns out it was all just to hook fools like me into being interested. GST/NBC latched onto the name of a well known piece of KR history/mythology, and just used it to draw interest, without even giving a damn about what kind of expectations it stirred. How sickening.

But worse than that was how unimpressive KARR-E was in the grand scheme of things. He was just a one-off, completely unmemorable villain. Nothing special in his introduction. He was just... there. Transformed, rolled out. No fancy reveal. Nothing atmopsheric or dramatic or even intimidating. And then the fight is woefully short. Was the CGI impressive? Hell yes. The guys at MasterKey outdid themselves, but for what? I couldn't give a damn about the character in the end. There was nothing special about KARR-E or the fight, period. The coolest part was the Turbo Boost-in-regular mode (something that looks MUCH better than ugly Attack Mode TB), but it was such an easy defeat for a character that was hyped up as so "awesome and intimidating," when he was neither. And not even a bone thrown to hope for his return, not that I care to see it. Two minutes of a useless fight that I had no emotional investment in. The battle of TOS's 'KVK' was infinitely better, and NOT because it was TOS, but because it was simply handled much better, by, well, people who know better how to make television.

The disappointment of this has turned me off to the show. Not even the end tag about Wilton and restarting FLAG will keep me watching. I'm done with it, not going to even ride out the rest of the season. And it wasn't even that bad of an episode! But the fact that my expectations were used to trick me (basically) actually angers me a lot, which is a surprise even to me.

The worst part of the whole affair was that it was not KARR. Had it been confirmed to be the same AI? That would have made the sting far, far less. Had they just NOT committed the bait-and-switch and called it "KRO," without the Peter Cullen casting? I wouldn't have had a problem with the episode, at all.

The use of the name and the voice was PURELY to decieve. And that says it all about the show. GST has no idea how to handle the show right for it being a continuation (which every sign, including tonight's episode, has indicated that it is supposed to be). The pilot showed that David Andron had infinitely more intention of being faithful to the continuity of TOS in HIS continuation concept. If he had been handling the series version in the first place, the show would have been written better from the beginning, and KARR would have been the same AI, with the carry-over explained enough to properly appease the fans that expected it. This is just the icing on the *?$# cake that is GST's Knight Rider.

At this point, I don't care if we get a second season, and up until tonight, I was all for it. If you're going to use TOS concepts (like, well, a character FROM TOS), do it right or don't do it at all.


Thank you for perfectly articulating what I was too furious to write last night. I also now have my doubts on even watching the rest of the series, but ultimately I know my curiousity will get the best of me. I think I've completely had it with Gary Scott Thompson's excuses like, "NBC keeps reminding me this is an 8:00 show," or "we wanted to add more backstory flashbacks but NBC made us take it out," etc.

I knew there would be people who loved this episode because let's face it, there are many members that will simply like anything that's handed to them with the name Knight Rider on it. I wish I could enjoy the series as much as you guys, but I am looking at things in terms of the bigger picture here, and I think the only way for me to get full enjoyment from the creative decisions of this series would have been for me to never have seen the original series.

Call me cynical, but I'll never understand how anybody can't be furious with the botched up continuity and lack of effort that went into it. How is it possible that what should have been an epic episode (and a fairly easy one to write at that) be done in completely the wrong way? Cut the crap with Billy trying to find K.I.T.T. on some kid's Xbox...it's not a clever idea, it's a lame and odd waste of time. Cut out the excessive technobabble and endless typing and add more scenes of the Mustang if K.A.R.R.'s C.G.I. took too long to perfect. Hell, re-create the entire "K.I.T.T. Vs. K.A.R.R." episode altogether. They blatantly rip off countless other franchises, so why not simply re-create original series episodes as well?
“Gimme maximum turbo thrust and blast me outta here, will ya!?”
:kitt: :dash4:

adamtrek
Recruit
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:25 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by adamtrek » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:14 am

This episode was fantastic.

It had it's emotional stuff at the beginning. Sarah was mourning. They had to show this.

Mike was being supportive and ending up being with her. He does love her as she loves him.

In episodic television, be VERY grateful for the KITT vs. KARR battle that we got, because it's incredibly expensive. They could have added a few more car vs. car scenes, but this KARR meant business. It was quick, Mike and KITT had to be quick about defending themselves and fighting back to defeat KARR, so it was all good in my book.

Knight Research being a part of the government is now gone for good. I say thank God. Creatively, this is the way to go. Like holo-Charles said, they are on their own now and can do what they can as they see fit. It's Sarah's baby now. And Mike is still the operative. Billy and Zoe are the tech wizards helping. Works for me. Most prime time shows are ensemble shows, and having 4 mains is very different, so we'll see how this will work.

Sarah has at least half a billion in funding, and that is probably only a fraction of that she has, as we didn't see the total funds transfer, which makes sense. The point of that was to show that the funding is "endless". Sarah and Charles liked puzzles so Charles incorporated that into her figuring out her inheritance. It was fun to watch.

Sarah will still have to hire staff, and there will be huge obstacles and work to get FLAG going again, so the remaining episodes will be fun to see how they cope with changes and a lack of government resources. In essence, they can almost pick up where they left off, but then again, things will be different.
Watching KITT turbo boost since 1982.

User avatar
Rainack
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:43 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Squaw Valley, CA
Contact:

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Rainack » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:16 am

Knight Racer wrote:Anyone else wonder why this exoskeleton called karr was used for military use,how a simple missile to the front chasis didn't blow him away years ago?All it took was a projectile of 2-3 tons to ram the creation and poof bye bye karr.I mean theirs no healing nanoskin or MBS coating on this thing.

I too wondered how something built for military use could be blasted through by a car and destroyed, when it should supposedly be able to stand up to missles, etc.

I think it was their way of ending the battle that they didn't really want fought in the first place. I mean, if they really wanted that epic battle to take place, they would have had it last longer, and end more spectacularly. Maybe with Torres somehow regaining control and causing the destruction, or something.
To read my fanfictions, go to fanfiction.net and search for my screen name, Rainack.

KRShelby
Rookie
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:25 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by KRShelby » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:32 am

Hmm, do you guys think this was originally planned to be a 2 parter? But got cut due to NBC cutting the ep order, and therefore everything had to be crammed?

User avatar
Taichi
Rookie
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:48 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Baxter Springs, KS

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Taichi » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:47 am

I'm having mixed feelings about this episode... and pretty much agree with what has been said.

For the most part, the episode was great, acting, pace, etc. but when it came to battle time, HOLY HELL, WHAT HAPPENED?!?!?!?! Everything fell apart at the end... not much of a battle at all, which, I thought, was the point of the episode... KITT battling KARR... guess I missed the memo then.

But overall, the story was good, drama scenes could have been cut to allow more time, or at least make it a two parter.

The Good:
- KITT begging not to be shut down... really set in that KITT has "feelings".
- The hologram of Charles... this is why I really love Bruce... his way of expressing emotion is very well played.
- KARR as a Mustang
- The scanner sound for KARR
- Cullen's voice... although sounded like Optimus... he sounded a little more menacing then his first KARR.
- Torres getting what he deserved, and KARR taking advantage... love the "Yes, you are next in control." *grabs Torres* I was hoping he would squeeze a little harder... lol!
- Battle damaged KITT... nice to see.
- Turbo Boost in normal mode... now we know he can do it.
- Ski Mode
- Grappling hook
- Jumping through KARR, nice KvsK moment.
- FLAG, Knight Industries, Wilton Knight... very nice to hear those again.
- Charles telling them to help the average person, no hidden agendas... etc. Very nice.

The Bad:
- THE FIGHT!!! - Damn... it should have been longer... so much hype and this?!!? Not good enough.
- Finding KITT's orb in some XBOX... while a homage to KR2000, it wasn't needed.
- Mike being, as someone stated, "Punisher"... yeah... overkill
- Torres' death. Um... too Darth Vader-ish.
- KARR's time not being longer... poor guy, he didn't get enough screen time... and a Mustang to Mustang battle would have been nice.
- Sarah in bikini... while very, very nice... not needed.


There's probably more... but I don't have time to think right now, at work.

But we'll see how it progresses.

scorbing
Recruit
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:07 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by scorbing » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:50 am

I am a huge fan of KR but I have to fully agree with you. This was their chance to make things right for the show and they blew it with that sorry 2 minute non-sense fight. Everything was hurried out the door. The visual effects people, God bless them, did a great job and are the only ones that deserve an award on this.

NBC tricked everyone into thinking this was going to be one hell of a fight between KARR and KITT and it was everything but that. The whole episode was focused on the stupid...and I mean stupid...Zoey and the nerd, whom I think are totally useless especially with their stupid jokes, especially Zoey. Zoey never takes anything seriously and it shows. She looks like a total fake. Getting rid of Grainman was a big mistake. They should have kept Grainman, bring in the Hoff and get rid of Zoey. The nerd, his character can be adjusted so can stay, but she needs to go. All they have her for in the show is for her looks. She has a nice body, that's it. Nothing more. No acting abilities of any kind.

This episode should have been focused on KARR, KITT and Mike from the beginning, not the last 2 minutes. Very dissapointing.

Are they going to make it to another season? - I seriously doubt it.





Mike Knight wrote:Well, that was the single biggest disappointment I've ever had related to a television series, let alone this whole series. What a rushed, wasted opportunity.

I personally think the people who were overall pleased with the episode are certifiably insane. And I don't care how cruel that sounds.

I had my smaller problems with the episode, such as the pacing and the cramming-in of information that should be important to us but isn't because it's all thrown at us. The revelations in Mike's past should have been more meaningful, but was blurted out as fast as possible for time. The contemporary music was atrocious. Wouldn't the resuce of KITT have been better with the Knight Rider theme playing triumphantly?

But my biggest problem? The bait-and-switch, just as I had feared it would be. And was fooled into thinking it wasn't, for a while. KARR-in-name-only. What a waste. All signs point to the show being a continuation of TOS (even in tonight's episode!), and the BIGGEST part, the thing that could have tied KR08 and TOS together, KARR, wasn't even the same character!

It wasn't important to me that they explain how he was resurrected from the bridge site. I didn't care about that. As long as they confirmed it was the same AI, I was content to fill in the blanks with my imagination (a'la KARR surviving at the end of TDR). But the idea of a doppelganger form, the yellow scanner, the name and ESPECIALLY the re-casting of Peter Cullen, was all to go toward the biggest bait-and-switch in TV history. All signs pointed to the same AI, finally, a recurring character, a drawing-on of TOS mythology, and it turns out it was all just to hook fools like me into being interested. GST/NBC latched onto the name of a well known piece of KR history/mythology, and just used it to draw interest, without even giving a damn about what kind of expectations it stirred. How sickening.

But worse than that was how unimpressive KARR-E was in the grand scheme of things. He was just a one-off, completely unmemorable villain. Nothing special in his introduction. He was just... there. Transformed, rolled out. No fancy reveal. Nothing atmopsheric or dramatic or even intimidating. And then the fight is woefully short. Was the CGI impressive? Hell yes. The guys at MasterKey outdid themselves, but for what? I couldn't give a damn about the character in the end. There was nothing special about KARR-E or the fight, period. The coolest part was the Turbo Boost-in-regular mode (something that looks MUCH better than ugly Attack Mode TB), but it was such an easy defeat for a character that was hyped up as so "awesome and intimidating," when he was neither. And not even a bone thrown to hope for his return, not that I care to see it. Two minutes of a useless fight that I had no emotional investment in. The battle of TOS's 'KVK' was infinitely better, and NOT because it was TOS, but because it was simply handled much better, by, well, people who know better how to make television.

The disappointment of this has turned me off to the show. Not even the end tag about Wilton and restarting FLAG will keep me watching. I'm done with it, not going to even ride out the rest of the season. And it wasn't even that bad of an episode! But the fact that my expectations were used to trick me (basically) actually angers me a lot, which is a surprise even to me.

The worst part of the whole affair was that it was not KARR. Had it been confirmed to be the same AI? That would have made the sting far, far less. Had they just NOT committed the bait-and-switch and called it "KRO," without the Peter Cullen casting? I wouldn't have had a problem with the episode, at all.

The use of the name and the voice was PURELY to decieve. And that says it all about the show. GST has no idea how to handle the show right for it being a continuation (which every sign, including tonight's episode, has indicated that it is supposed to be). The pilot showed that David Andron had infinitely more intention of being faithful to the continuity of TOS in HIS continuation concept. If he had been handling the series version in the first place, the show would have been written better from the beginning, and KARR would have been the same AI, with the carry-over explained enough to properly appease the fans that expected it. This is just the icing on the *?$# cake that is GST's Knight Rider.

At this point, I don't care if we get a second season, and up until tonight, I was all for it. If you're going to use TOS concepts (like, well, a character FROM TOS), do it right or don't do it at all.

User avatar
kitt2k
Operative
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:17 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by kitt2k » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:05 am

SO this episode is the one I ran out and hyped on a bunch of other message boards (star wars, star trek, dukes of hazzard, etc.) to save the show......shame on me....what a waste!

Again the writer/director/whoever can NOT pace a show to save their lives.....we can waste a whole bunch of money taking the cast and some crew to Hawaii to waste a bunch more episode time to film poor Sarah dealing with the loss of Daddy, and then rush/cut back on the whole reason I and many others were excited about the show, KARR's return, because there was no more time or money. I was always under the impression that in episodic television the "show runner" makes the hard decisions on how to best budget these two items to tell the best story, if this is so, then I think I know the reason this show fails week after week! You can't tell me that any of Sarah's grieving could not have been done at a local bar, and at Dad's house that is closer to the SSC, and in a way that did not waste so much of the precious few 40 minutes the episodes get now to tell the story. Plus this would have been a logical way to explain how quick Mike and Sarah made it back. Instead, GST was hell bent on doing some location shooting in the island state, and in so doing wasted the resources to make this the great episode it deserved to be.

I have been a huge supporter of the new show, and have done a lot of publicity work trying to get people to watch, guess now I am finally coming to the conclusion as to why they don't, the show is POORLY DONE!

scorbing
Recruit
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:07 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by scorbing » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:21 am

kitt2k wrote:SO this episode is the one I ran out and hyped on a bunch of other message boards (star wars, star trek, dukes of hazzard, etc.) to save the show......shame on me....what a waste!

Again the writer/director/whoever can NOT pace a show to save their lives.....we can waste a whole bunch of money taking the cast and some crew to Hawaii to waste a bunch more episode time to film poor Sarah dealing with the loss of Daddy, and then rush/cut back on the whole reason I and many others were excited about the show, KARR's return, because there was no more time or money. I was always under the impression that in episodic television the "show runner" makes the hard decisions on how to best budget these two items to tell the best story, if this is so, then I think I know the reason this show fails week after week! You can't tell me that any of Sarah's grieving could not have been done at a local bar, and at Dad's house that is closer to the SSC, and in a way that did not waste so much of the precious few 40 minutes the episodes get now to tell the story. Plus this would have been a logical way to explain how quick Mike and Sarah made it back. Instead, GST was hell bent on doing some location shooting in the island state, and in so doing wasted the resources to make this the great episode it deserved to be.

I have been a huge supporter of the new show, and have done a lot of publicity work trying to get people to watch, guess now I am finally coming to the conclusion as to why they don't, the show is POORLY DONE!



Well said. +1

kelwhite22
Stranger
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:17 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by kelwhite22 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:21 am

Can someone tell me the name of the song at the beginning with Sarah in Hawaii on the beach and at the club?

jfall78
Stranger
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:10 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by jfall78 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:35 am

What a huge disappointment. It may not have been the worst episode of the season, but it sure felt like it after all the hype that they built up around it. I grew up watching the TOS and I was really excited when they brought KR back last year. I wasn’t crazy with how the season started.. it felt more like a watching a watered down version of 24 that happened to have a talking car in a few scenes. I was really hopeful after the last two episodes.. even though I didn’t think they were ground breaking, it definitely seemed that the show realized it’s mistakes and was moving back in the right direction. I’m not sure if I’ll watch the remaining episodes.. I’m excited about the idea of FLAG coming back, but from the way it looks.. it’s just going to be the remaining 4 characters working out of the same SSC.. and the idea that Sarah is the new Devon and is running things.. well I’m still not even sure what her role has been up to now, other than a distraction for Michael.. I truly don’t want to see her as the head of FLAG.. unless she’s running things somewhere else off camera.

It’s Ironic.. There are some really well written, award winning shows that come and go, because as hard as they try they never find an audience. With KR, it’s just the opposite.. You already have a huge audience that’s just looking for a good well written, action based story about a guy and his car.. Something so simple, yet they managed to screw it up so badly.

User avatar
knightendo77
Operative
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:10 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by knightendo77 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:36 am

I think when GST said he had carte blanche to do as he pleased after the pilot, that that meant with cast, with how KITT looked and performed, the formation of FLAG (ie. he went and created the SSC etc), it wasn't to ignore plot points and connections to the original and I really believe people have picked that up wrong just because certain things don't match up with how they think it should.

GST said at ComicCon that KARR would "return". It's the same KARR.

And besides, it's creative suicide to take the pilot and say "right that's the pilot for this series, but we're ignoring this and this and this...". It's the same cast, car, theme etc, talk about confusing the casual viewer if you decided to ignore certain things! You can do that when you bring back a movie franchise years after it's finished, or when you REMAKE an old TV series, but you don't do that with the pilot movie for the series you've been given to produce. So no, I believe GST did change lots of things but he's not contradicting anything put out in the pilot, he's just changed and advanced some stuff like any series does after a pilot.
knightendo77
"I'm a Goofy Goober."

I'm on Bebo - knightendo_phil

User avatar
rickth64
Volunteer
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:09 pm

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by rickth64 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:38 am

OMG, i am sooooo very disappointed with this episode........... :| Knight Rider sucks, i thought i'd never say that, but...... :|

User avatar
honnziva
KRO Podcaster (retired)
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:51 am

Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by honnziva » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:13 am

Ughhhhhhhh
you know what's lackluster.... many people's positivity. It sounds like you all have been reading too many comments on aintitcool.com. You all do realize that the original series did not win any emmy's for acting or story right?

we are watching a story on a man and this talking car.... and its fantastic. and for anyone who says you're not a fan then of the original series you can eat your words... I'm 33 years old. I was in my prime to watch this series when i was a kid and have built more than my share of KR related fan stuff and not to mention my replica.

I don't know why we all seem at times to expect so much from this series.... Treating it like its LOST or something else. This is KR and last night... that WAS Knight RIDER in its truest form.... the pacing of the show? is this something that we thought about when we watched the original series

if you didnt like the show fine, if you had a problem cause the fight scene last night was only 3 minutes long... fine... but. to say that episode was not great, and that you have some r kind of renewed hope that the series is now headed in the exact direction it needs to be, then you didnt watch through to the ened and that is just too bad.

TV sucks alot lately. and i know some believe that its easy to say its an hour of thoughtless tv. but it is . knight rider is supposed to be a show where you can get lost in the alternate reality of the action. not upset that kits dash isn't an exact replica of a dash built in 1982 with 1982 adanced technology. or that he isn't voiced by william daniels, or that justin bruening does not have a mullet or afro.

where are devon, why can't bonnie be his mechanic. bonnie would be in her late 50s just as a side note. Things chaange. like underwear. i dont wear tighty whities anymore but that doesnt make my boxers any less of an awesome pair of panties.

I understand some will not like the show. we all do. but you will alwyas have the original series... they cannot take it away from you... Gary Scott Thompson is not raping your childhood as the kids like to say.

this is not the episode 1 of knight rider. I really wish for us to all start to enjoy the show a little bit more for what it is, i know some can't. i know some are too attached . and i know that my words may come off as harsh or fall on deaf ears.

but they are putting alot of effort in to making us happy and making the powers that be at nbc happy.

this is the last series you will get on Knight Rider...
can you honestly envision another? I don't want to start a fight... i just want to point out some problems with the way we sometimes look at things. We get caught up in facts and trtuths and inticacies . it sucks...

thank you to neil, michael, sue and all those that help with keeping us informaed with new things on our show that is over 25 years old... thank you for keeping our passion relevant on your own time.

thank you for trying to keep people excited for how relevant KR is right NOW...

Gene
"To our future. No matter who it may take us up against or where"

Locked