To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

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To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:08 pm

Hi to the VFX team(Master Key Productions) working on KR 2008,
As one of the VFX guys said in one of the topic threads that we can freely point out the things that we did not like in the VFX category,here's my list of things,hope the team or someone from the team will reply soon.

1-The Chroma/Green Screen Studio shots were very unrealistic to be honest.First of all why isn't the 'studio lightning' not matching to the lightning in the background plate or background?
2-The stripes of the mustang are grey,but due to the artifical studio or the over exposed lightning it appears to be white which is clearly NOT.most of the real driving shots the ones where u can see the hood have white stripes,but as soon as you switch to a 'real' driving shot,the stripes are grey.
3-One of the main reasons the shots aren't looking realistic is because of the 'floating' camera effect used when focusing on justin.
4-The car and the interior are so sharp at times and exterior is not sharp neither it's blur.I believe it should be blur which will make the shot more 'believable'.When you view things as background and that too a driving shot the background gets blur.
5-The Asian guy's driving shots are even more poor.Notice in one of the shots where the view is horizontal the window of the lambo on the right side is black where as the window on the left is a regular one.Why make such a mistake?Were you guys in such a hurry that u forgot to fix it?
6-The shots where the Asian guy is facing the camera,just notice the movement of his long hair,i am implying to the direction of the wind.There's a flaw i believe,i think the fan used to blow his hair is in the wrong direction as opposed to the nature of the entire scene.
5-The shot where KITT transforms has a motion blur to it.But what happens as you view the view outside the window from the inside? it's very clear whereas it should not be.Plus whenever you are cruising at such a high speed in the attack mode i believe there should be a shaky camera effect too look a bit realistic.
6-The same childish KR logo on the bottom,and seemingly the bottom is empty?Just a metal plate?That's very unrealistic

I wish i could have uploaded the photos here and pointed out the mistakes.But don't know how to upload them.Can anyone of you plz do the job for me so that the VFX team could understand more clearly the flaws i pointed out.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by tamatt27 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:25 pm

There are several valid points here. I don't know if I would point them out as flaws, only observations. I do agree on most of your points, namely that the green screen driving sequences were of poor quality. My main concern is the KR logo on the bottom of Attack KITT.
All-in-all, though, you guys are doing a great job! We do appreciate everything and hope you look here for constructive criticism, and not bashing.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:40 pm

That's a constructive criticism tamaatt27 can u plz or someone upload the photos of these shots.Yesterday i introduced a friend of mine to the new KR and he was disappointed a bit by the VFX shots saying that they were 'video game like' in nature specially the turbo boost in the 1st episode and those green screen shots looked like as if the actors were sitting in an arcade driving simulation.We all love KR and want to lose these flaws ASAP.I need the VFX guys to answer my question.Just watch the episode again and note the things i said.You will agree with me entirely.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:50 pm

The Original Series had a real camera mounted/rigged over the hood.It would not be true to easy that the 20 year old method is expensive these days.Just keep the in studio shots for HUD and most of the flaws will be covered in that fashion.The second episodes race was ruined because of the things i mentioned above.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by weeezl » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:53 pm

Before all you guys start pointing out flaws and your dislikes of their work,maybe you should also point out what your likes are also, they are trying really hard to make us fans happy and its not fair to make one sided comments.

They frequent these boards and share inside info with us and it would only be right to point out what they do right also.

From me personally, VFX team a big thumbs up! :good:

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:00 pm

weeezl as i mentioned that this is pure constructive criticism maybe u aren't taking these flaws seriously.i am expecting them to respond in a postive manner by bringing abt the changes i have mentioned above.i did not use harsh language neither there was any element of negative criticism in my post.a lot of ppl have already applauded the vfx team for their work.i need not to do the same.Need i have to repeat what ppl praised? the HUD,a little bit of improvement of the turbo boost?All of these things have been already said.one more thing to add is that idea they used for KITT's hood as a 'surface' program didn't appeal to me much.But gives me an another idea that KITT can map an entire image of the engine or other parts under the hood to map it over the hood and stating what needs to be changed or maybe repaired etc....or it can project an HUD in the fashion where you have seen in the movie IRON MAN where tony stark is 'removing' or 'deleting' unwanted items from his suit. etc.... by no means i am saying it to rip-off that IRON MAN scene,it's just an idea.These changes have to made and to be taken seriously.IThey are for the good of the show.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by weeezl » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:24 pm

For all your criticisms and complaints its a TV show budget and for that I respect them.

Its not a 100+ million Hollywood blockbuster...bear that in mind.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:58 pm

What I dont get is that everyone here has what they think "Knight Rider" is in their heads, but the problem is it's not their show.
It's the writers, GST and NBC's show.
They're the ones who are putting their hard earned time and money into that show every week.
They have to the right to have KITTruck in it if they want.
They can have the KITTCave, and Billy and Zoe.
This is their show that they're making and we're getting the privlage to watch.
They obviously know where this show is going and people just need to give it time to work everything out.
The show just started and we're only 2 episodes in, but all people wanna do is change everything so that it's a carbon copy of TOS.
This is a new Knight Rider with a new set of rules. And chances are they like what they have made or else it wouldnt be broadcasted, so I dont think they're gonna change things just because some fan thinks they "dont work."
They have a TV show budget and are trying to do what they can with it.
I'm actually amazed with how much they've been able to do, since the first episode had more FXs in one show than any other show on TV ever....it was like 400, right?
I'm sure if you sent them a couple million dollars they'd probably be able to make this a true movie every week, but chances are you, or I, or anyone else here cant do that. So why are we treating this like it's "Our Show" when truth is this is their show.
They pay for it, we dont.
Therefor, I think they have right to make this show how they want.
They've still given us alot of the things we've asked for.
But it seems alot of people are really greedy and cant be satisfied with what given, because it's not exactly what they want.
So everyone's been whining and moaning because it's not the 80s version.
Or because it's a team instead of one man/one car.
Or that the CIA runs it.
Or that they go on secret service missions instead of just helping regular people who call in a favor.
People cant get times have changed.
Television has changed.
The ways they make Television shows have changed.
And this show is NOT just for the fans of TOS, it's for everybody.
Hell, most of the people I hang out with cant stand the original, but when I showed them these first episodes, I've got them hooked on this series.
They love the transformations.
They LOVE the KITTCave.
They really love all of Billy's and Zoe's bantering/sex jokes.
They love the "Mike's Past" storyline they've got going.
And they love the new KI3T. They love watching it learn.

sigh....i care too much about this show.

Plus I noticed most of the "flaws" that you have "pointed out" arent even things the FX crew does....
Last edited by Faithful Car KRO on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by sarfraz » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:04 pm

Well said buddy :good:

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by weeezl » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:26 pm

Faithful Car Kro

I agree also

Thanks.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by DeeKnight » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:32 pm

Well said.and spot on!

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by djshag69 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:25 pm

very well said KRO, its so easy for everyone to complain and complain, well you know what the first 2 episodes of the original that we all love wasn't the best work, and i believe these guys have done an amazing job and it is getting better every week.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by weeezl » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:01 pm

Im glad everyone else can see it also....

This show has SERIOUS potential...best so far, the most likely to do well.

It will be because of people complaining about stupid stuff that gets it cancelled...

Those who want it to succeed, so you can see some more Knight Rider.........

Raise your hands! :good:

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:48 pm

:good:
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WATCH THE SHOW!!!: Wed at 8:00pm on NBC.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by R.E.V » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:46 pm

I belive we should be happy NBC put it on the air myself :good:
Now that's just wonderful. You stick me in mothballs for nearly a decade, and then you sell my parts like I'm inventory for Manny, Moe and Jack.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by DevonStyles » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:46 pm

Knight Rider and nit-picks go hand in hand... lol

The issue is this.... When it no longer becomes "OUR SHOW" for whatever reasons they won't have to worry about puttin hard work and money into "THEIR SHOW" because "BOTH OUR SHOWS" will no longer exist. What people are complaining about should be a cheap fix. From what I can tell the majority of people (KR fans) seem to be complaining about the same things. 2 or 3 certain issues. It's defenetly not all over the place.

I can put up with a bad green screen, but that Turbo Boost has got to improve. It might work for kids, but the majority of the demographic they are trying to hit is old enough to remember the old Knight Rider, and those Turbo boosts look 10 times better and more realistic then the new ones here... ohhh wait a minute... They actually jumped a car. I say keep the internal engine shots... even though it's a fast and furious copy it's still pretty cool. Combine that with a REAL car jump and it's a win win.

Is it me or was the car chase scenes in the pilot much better then what we are seeing in the series? So far?
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Rockatteer » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:44 pm

Yes they can make the show anyway they like.. but if the audience doesn't like it, then the show wont' be around for very long will it, so it really is in their best interests to listen to what the fans want, and cater to that as much as they can.. isn't it?

And as has already been pointed out.. there only seems to be about 3 main issues that seem to be really bugging people.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:47 am

I have been truly disappointed by the responses by fellow group members,first of all in this topic thread relating to VFX did i bitch about KITT Cave,or crappy acting or the 4x4 mode or the regular complaints by fellow members?i didn't not so how can you justify yourself by saying that my complaints are the same to that of other posters here on this forum.secondly when you are in a green screen chroma shoot a visual effects supervisor is always there with the director on the set to make things sure regarding lightning,fans,explosions whatever might be the scene requirements.If the SFX scene is not executed well,then the VFX supervisor which is the head of team is to be blamed.Faithful car KRO said that my complaints weren't related to VFX? The CGI car with the KR logo and an empty bottom....isn't that a part of VFX? The lightning errors of the background plates is the responsibility of a VFX artist who is in the lightning and shading dept.The studio lightning is to be monitored by the VFX supervisor.So at this point you might understand how much the VFX dept is responsible while executing CGI laden shots.Abt the fan thing when the shot was brought into post production why didn't the editors notice the wrong direction of the wind?

I think the show is getting better the turbo boost was improved KITT has started to grow,these things are good.I hope i have made myself clear as this is a criticism from a fan of the show.i want things to get better and i am hoping that they get better soon.You don't need a 100 mill dollar budget to create decent VFX.Look at shows like Heroes....they don't have a 100 mill dollar budget per episode the VFX on a tv budget on that show is great.In Lost the compositing has been done seamlessly in most cases.I wish if they just use the chroma shoot just for HUD.Things will get much better. :kitt2:

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:49 am

By no means i am comparing the work of (Master Key Productions) to a top notch VFX house like ILM ,Weta or Sony Image works.But i believe that they have a potential and that they'll hopefully do better in future.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by goldbug » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:22 am

I'm going to (sadly) have to agree with some of your points. I was watching "Bones" the other day and they utilize the same green screen/driving effect KR does. They did it so much better than KR it made me kind of sad. Whereas with KR the outside scrolling by is often desturated and blurry, the ones used on "Bones" were sharp and the color tones matched up very well with the interior of the car. I don't think this is hard to do, I just think the VFX guys have a huge job on their hands and need to tweak bit by bit. Many scifi shows have to tweak their FX over the course of the first season til they get it "right", so I have faith the KR guys will do the same.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Taichi » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:12 pm

I'll agree also with some of your points.

Green screen driving is horrid, it takes you out of the reality feel.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by BlueChaos » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:33 pm

Anyone want to send money to the producers so they can do things in real stunt and not CGI? No?
Anyone want to see Knight Rider once in a month as opposed to once in a week like at the moment? No?

Then just wait and pray for them to pass the first 13 episodes with high ratings, so they can get more money and make better FX for the rest of the episodes. Or settle for once a month episode so they get more time to work.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by Knight4life » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:32 pm

Blue Chaos my complaints are mainly regarding to the poor green screen shots,i haven't complained abt the transformation so far though it has flaws but keeping that in mind even a few shots from the transformers had flaws as well.I really don't think rigging a camera over the hood of a 'stang is that expensive.ppl may forgive the transformations effects flaws but those green screen effects are horrible and looks like as if actors are sitting in a driving simulation.They afforded to rig a real camera 20 years ago.Today it shouldn't be a problem.

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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by goldbug » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:08 pm

BlueChaos wrote:Anyone want to send money to the producers so they can do things in real stunt and not CGI? No?

Green screen driving can be done well on a TV show budget. They clearly have the ability to do it, all they need to do is make some visual adjustments to the inserted footage. This doesn't require grandiose hardware or programs, they have everything they need to do it now. They just need to tweak the fx a bit.
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Re: To The VFX team,pointing out their flaws.

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:33 pm

You know, the thing is that I'm sure they're well aware of the issues. I mean, there's no reason they wouldn't be since they themselves saw the finished product before we did. It doesn't hurt pointing it out though I'm sure it's something that will (hopefully) be eventually resolved though it might be one of those things that might take several episodes.
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