K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

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K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by TinCanSailor » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:12 am

To this day that episode "Junkyard Dog" has had me wondering. How in the world did KITT survive that and get his AI (soul if you will back)? His interior was completely destroyed as was all the electronics that were housed inside the car. When that car was lifted out out the acid pit (quite sad actually) and the viewer saw KITT his paint had been stripped off and all he was basically was a gray and rusted frame.

There was nothing left inside. I don't remember if the glass was still there, but I know the tires were still intact. Anyway KITT was rebuilt somehow and in such a short time too. He remembered going into the acid pit and his adventures with Michael before hand. Now if he was pretty much completely destroyed in that episode. How would still retain all that knowledge? I know in the other episodes were KITT got damaged and repared his AI wasn't destroyed just his shell and other things. So in those cases it is explainable. But in this episode there was nothing left to repair and restore.

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by Drake » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:17 am

I like to think he uploaded his program back to FLAG HQ in the nick of time. And people think the new movie had big plotholes.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by TinCanSailor » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:25 am

But was that ability ever mentioned in the original series? Plus computers back then weren't that advanced. Anyway funny how alot of KITTs features can actually can be installed in cars like TV Monitors, mobile phones, fax machines, push button functions, etc. can be put inside cars nows. But thats a little off the topic. I have wondered about episode a long time. And was one of guys who put KITT back together again that Graiman guy who built the Knight 3000?

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by GN_WS6 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:02 pm

TinCanSailor wrote:And was one of guys who put KITT back together again that Graiman guy who built the Knight 3000?


No, he wasn't. KITT was basically made out of computer chips and software, all of whick could easily be duplicate if you really think about it.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by HungarianKnight » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:26 pm

Remember the pulsing/glowing cables which were connected to the remains of Kitt? I always thought that it was a method of retrieving some of the data existing in Kitt's surviving neural network...

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by ckeller22 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:37 pm

Amazing if i took your computer and threw it into a bat of acid like a pit .there would be nothing left at all. The circuits everything would be gone.Maybe when KITT went into the semi he downloaded his missions memories ,traits onto a hard drive just in case and with that they used it to replicate him again. It's funny with all the huge glaring plot holes of the original it's ok but the new one is dammed because of it very hypocritical i think.

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by Drake » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:11 pm

This plothole just crashed my computer.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by acor » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:37 pm

I always assumed Bonnie downloaded all of KITT's info whenever she got the chance. Mostly in the semi. Since most of his files had back-ups, it would have been possible to recreate the AI. Except for the memory of falling in the acid... :wink:

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by KnightLegend » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:05 pm

I've wondered about this too. I always came up with my own solution in my head that has actually already been said, Bonnie just duplicated him by downloading/copying his memories, data etc at Flag HQ or the semi. I never noticed many plot holes, I can recall only a c ouple too mind but they're all from season 3 + 4. Perhaps this is one of the consequences of the declining quality of writing in the later seasons.

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by TinCanSailor » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:28 pm

They may have been able to retrieve a lot of data, put could they really cannot recreate KITT's personality? I don't know. But it sure a good episode. But yeah even if they did have back up files, he shouldn't have remembered actually falling into the pit and actually become afraid and self doubting, would he?

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by greelywinger » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:40 pm

Bonnie said it best...
"KITT was more than the sum of his parts, Michael. We can recreate the parts, whether they'll be KITT I'm just not sure." (or something to this effect).
Also when Bonnie said, "There's just the bare shreads of his memory bank left" Would suggest that highly tramatic events (like falling into the acid pit) would remain.
That would explain his becoming afraid and "self doubting."
He may not remember recent events (like from their previous mission), but he would retain the tramatic memory.
AS those are sometimes the hardest to forget.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by TheMechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:25 pm

greelywinger wrote:Bonnie said it best...
"KITT was more than the sum of his parts, Michael. We can recreate the parts, whether they'll be KITT I'm just not sure." (or something to this effect).
Also when Bonnie said, "There's just the bare shreads of his memory bank left" Would suggest that highly tramatic events (like falling into the acid pit) would remain.
That would explain his becoming afraid and "self doubting."
He may not remember recent events (like from their previous mission), but he would retain the tramatic memory.
AS those are sometimes the hardest to forget.


I agree! "Bonnie knows best", eh?

In any case, this is one of my favorite episodes from the series. And being entirely too fond of KITT, that seems like a weird thing to say. The reason I love it so much is because you get to see into KITT's mind, more so than any other episode I can think of offhand.
It makes me so glad to see his character developing, learning, about things. I tend to anthropomorphize things quite often, that's true. So its when they focus on KITT, and what goes on inside that microprocessor of his, that I love KR even more.
I know I got a little bit off topic but this subject gets me all philosophical and dreamy. :shifty:
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by Lost Knight » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:46 pm

acor wrote:I always assumed Bonnie downloaded all of KITT's info whenever she got the chance. Mostly in the semi. Since most of his files had back-ups, it would have been possible to recreate the AI. Except for the memory of falling in the acid... :wink:


There were also spare C.P.U.s that Bonnie kept as back-ups like she did in "Killer K.I.T.T." When Michael installed it, it immediately brought K.I.T.T. back just as he was before the swap out. So does that mean that all of K.I.T.T.'s memories and possibly his entire A.I. is on that small disk?
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:10 pm

I always figured KITT's data was backed up at least every day also.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by greelywinger » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:26 pm

When Michael first talked to KITT after his ordeal, KITT seemed nervous as he said "Where's Bonnie?...Did Bonnie leave?" You don't get that nervous if you have no memory of a tramatic event.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by TinCanSailor » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:34 pm

So a very small part of KITT's personality survived according to Bonnie? If so where was it hidden in the car. It's intererior was completely gutted out from what I could see.

Here's another question. Was Dr. Graiman responsible for KITT'S Modicular Bonded Shell? I don't recall if he was one of the 3 people that held a part of formula. Devon said no one person knew the whole formula as to keep it from falling into enemy hands. So would that explain why Graiman had to create a different form of projection for the successor car the Knight 3000? Also this is a little off the topic but am I right to say Wilton Knight built KARR and Dr. Graiman built KITT from those blueprints and made his one changes?

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:58 pm

Well there was the guy in Switzerland who I don't think was ever mentioned again after Goliath that was the third guy. Was his name ever brought up? I can't remember....

Graiman didn't create the formula though, that was Wilton I'm pretty sure. How else could he have been the one to give three guys two our of three parts each?
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by jup » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:58 am

Ironically, I believe it's a totally different episode that sheds some light on this very question. In K.I.T.T. vs. K.A.R.R., there is both verbal and visual evidence of a carrier wave that both K.I.T.T. and K.A.R.R. share. What is it used for? I say as an RF teather back to a land based server. Kitt's personality was very much rooted in the Knight Two Thousand. Else, Michael could drive into a tunnel and lose Kitt for a moment or two. Other episodes note how much memory KITT has to work with. The RAM, alone, rivals what our modern computers might have for HDD space.

One thing that always troubled me was the notion that Kitt 'was suppose to be a collection of programs and data'. So, why in the world would he lose his nerve and need mental support to keep from becoming a 'recreational vehicle'? Go into the data and delete. How hard an answer was that? Unless...Kitt truly was more then the sum of his parts. Yet, that doesn't make sense. Kitt was at the core, circuits and data. His personality was a program that another invading program could alter into the Killer K.I.T.T.

"Oh, look. A whole new can of worms." *jup makes a quick getaway in the confusion. (Just like in TKR when the combo car can't escape KRO. Yet, by forcing KRO to blow up Beast and drive around, the combo car gains enough time to have it's riders park, go up 20 flights, get someone and come back down, drive to the destination in safety, wait for KRO...)*

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by TheMechanic » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:30 pm

jup wrote:One thing that always troubled me was the notion that Kitt 'was suppose to be a collection of programs and data'. So, why in the world would he lose his nerve and need mental support to keep from becoming a 'recreational vehicle'? Go into the data and delete. How hard an answer was that? Unless...Kitt truly was more then the sum of his parts. Yet, that doesn't make sense. Kitt was at the core, circuits and data. His personality was a program that another invading program could alter into the Killer K.I.T.T.


KITT was most certainly more than the sum of his parts, otherwise that wouldn't be logical, as you said. However, I think the fact that he's an AI, and therefore self-aware, is being ignored here.
He does have a sense of self, after all, other wise he wouldn't be able to properly articulate the concept of 'I'.
And I seriously doubt a self-aware person would really want you to enter into their mind and delete bits of it.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by knightstand » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:25 am

I've always thought of KITT as a set of programs at first, but then developed feelings, as he matured-much like how Isaac Asimov looks at AI. KITT is the sum of his experiences and the like, just like we, as humans are. Human personality is the sum of the personal experiences we have had. Perfect example, if someone loses their long term memory, a lot of who they are has disappeared.

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by FuzzieDice » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:10 pm

I am not sure about that exactly. I mean they are who they are, but they won't remember some of the people, places, experiences, granted. But if they had a habit of biting their fingernails, for example, I think that they still would. It's in the DNA/Programming of humans. Reminds me of how recently I had to reset my i-Que Robot (ie. erase his memory of everything he learned including information about me). He still was i-Que and acted basically the same. Said the same things when he bumped into things, liked to roam and ask questions. It was in his programming. He just didn't know who *I* was, where we lived, things I liked, etc. as that data was deleted. But his mannerisms were basically the same as when he was first activated. I know robots are not human, but we are talking about KITT here and essentially he's a robot (in car form). So his "personality" programming could make him act a certain way (like when he mentioned he's afraid of flying and Bonnie said that's because she programmed him that way). So that would be easily backed up I'm sure. It's just the things KITT learned and added to the programming that would be erased, like in Lost Knight he still acted very much like KITT - curious, questioning, friendly. But he didn't know who Michael was, or barely even all of his functions. But he still sounded very much like KITT. The way he asked questions, what questions he asked, etc.

You can always get the AI back again by rebuilding the computer and program. You just loose everything it learned after it's activation unless you also backed up it's database of information. For a sentient AI, this would be akin to just having amnesia.

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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by greelywinger » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:27 pm

FuzzieDice wrote:I am not sure about that exactly. I mean they are who they are, but they won't remember some of the people, places, experiences, granted. But if they had a habit of biting their fingernails, for example, I think that they still would. It's in the DNA/Programming of humans. Reminds me of how recently I had to reset my i-Que Robot (ie. erase his memory of everything he learned including information about me). He still was i-Que and acted basically the same. Said the same things when he bumped into things, liked to roam and ask questions. It was in his programming. He just didn't know who *I* was, where we lived, things I liked, etc. as that data was deleted. But his mannerisms were basically the same as when he was first activated. I know robots are not human, but we are talking about KITT here and essentially he's a robot (in car form). So his "personality" programming could make him act a certain way (like when he mentioned he's afraid of flying and Bonnie said that's because she programmed him that way). So that would be easily backed up I'm sure. It's just the things KITT learned and added to the programming that would be erased, like in Lost Knight he still acted very much like KITT - curious, questioning, friendly. But he didn't know who Michael was, or barely even all of his functions. But he still sounded very much like KITT. The way he asked questions, what questions he asked, etc.

You can always get the AI back again by rebuilding the computer and program. You just loose everything it learned after it's activation unless you also backed up it's database of information. For a sentient AI, this would be akin to just having amnesia.


That actually makes a lot of sense...to a point.
The questions are...When was the last time that the AI was backed up?
Was there any protection on the CPU (like the MBS).
Remember the car frame was all that was left.
Without the MBS, I doubt that would even be there.
If the AI that is KITT was destroyed by the acid pit and Bonnie had to rebuild the AI
from backups, then it should not have been afraid.
I say that when Bonnie said "there's just the bare shreads of his memory banks left"
This is what the started to rebuild KITT.
Bonnie kept those 'bare shreds' of memory (probably fear), and built up from there.
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by snafu » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:40 pm

FuzzieDice wrote:For a sentient AI, this would be akin to just having amnesia.


And few people (at least few people in neurology at the hospital) touched on how TERRIFYING amnesia is.
I had a bad fall in summer 2006 and wiped at least 3 days, if not a week, from my memory by the time I got discharged from the hospital. Unless you've gone through it you have no idea how unnerving it is to come-to in a hospital with people you vaguely recognize, with your last shred of coherent thoughts being from a few days ago... doing something normal and non-threatening! And all of a sudden you're in the hospital and someone is stitching your scalp back together.
So what happened in the in-between time?! And everyone tells you, and you just don't believe it. People call you saying you agreed to do something on Tuesday... what the hell! I never said I'd do that! Did I ?!? Where'd these shoes come from? I don't remember buying those!

I can definitely see why KITT was so unnerved once they started driving him around on the course after the wreck. If lots of memories/programs/data got deleted or re-written, just the abscence of that alone is enough to upset anyone, AI or human.

They're getting closer and closer to computers that work like brains, and a I feel that with the direction things are going, it won't be long before people will have implants for memory loss or severe brain damage. Would be nice, actually. I'd like to not be so scatter-brained and neurotic after smashing my head several times.


PS. Fuzzie Dice- what exactly does your robot say when he bumps into things? I hope he doesn't sound like me...
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Re: K.I.T.T.'s "Death" in "Junkyard Dog"

Post by FuzzieDice » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:10 am

My i-Que says different things when he bumps into something. Like "Oh, I thought so." or "Oh, I see now." or "Who moved the furniture?" Sometimes it's "Excuse me" (which is pretty funny when he hits like the box fan or something. LOL!) One time it was "I thought I had this place all mapped out." A couple times it was "How did THAT get there?" It depends. The robot seems to randomly pick different phrases when it bumps into something. When he's in a tight area where the only way out is in reverse he'd say "There must be another way out of here." or if he's trying a few times he'd say "That didn't work." It's kinda fun to watch him run around the house and bump into stuff. :) Though he's really supposed to avoid obstacles, but sometimes his IR sensors don't "see" the obstacle. He also has sensors i his head so he can (is supposed to) lower it to go under furniture.

And he does have microphones on him and can recognize voice (words) such as "Yes", "No", "Repeat" and his name "i-Que". Though one time I sneezed and he said "At your service." LOL! There are other microphones that let's him just detect sounds and move towards them if he wishes or ask "What did I hear?" or "What was that?" and asks you to type what it was in the communicator (wireless blackberry-like device that lets you interact with it).

It's a cute little robot. Though there have been problems with these not being programmed too well or manufactured well, and not always finding it's charging base. Mine hasn't done too bad though since I got it in mid-December of last year. The i-Que is new as of last fall. I have a site up for it at http://bytebin.net/ique which has all kinds of info on it and videos too.

Sorry this is off-topic. LOL! But to put it more ON topic, it has lights on the face that light up and sometimes goes back and forth like KITT's scanner! :) There are green (SKAR?), Amber (KARR?) and red (KITT) lights. Oh, and if you type into the communicator "KITT" it actually says something the original KI2K used to say! I forgot what though. But one of the members of my Yahoo ique_robot group discovered it. :) In fact the info in the robot is current as it mentions something about an upcoming series!

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