Knight Rider Parallels

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Post by knightimmortal » Sun Aug 25, 2002 7:16 pm

We know you have all seen something familiar in other movies and shows, and yet, you probably can't quite figure it out. Elements of Knight Rider can show up everywhere. How many others can you spot?

KR: KITT the innocent AI that is learning.

Wargames: Joshua (WOPR), an innocent AI that is learning.


KR: KARR, the AI that lived by self-preservation of himself and his interests.

Electric Dreams: Edgar, the computer who just wanted to preserve himself and his interests.

More! More!

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Post by Janeway » Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightimmortal:
<STRONG>
KR: KITT the innocent AI that is learning.

Wargames: Joshua (WOPR), an innocent AI that is learning.


KR: KARR, the AI that lived by self-preservation of himself and his interests.

Electric Dreams: Edgar, the computer who just wanted to preserve himself and his interests.
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much the same parallels can be drawn between Data and Lore in TNG. The vicious, selfish prototype - and the gentle, 'innocent' new and improved model.

Anyone ever noticed that the 'evil' twin is always the prototype????

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Post by KRR » Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:46 am

KITT and KARR were both innocent, learning computers. KITT fortunately had the loving care of Bonnie, but KARR was misunderstood and was hurt by his deactivation, which was ordered by the only people who were supposed to love him. Plus he was given lessons about trust and life by Tony and The Rev.

If KITT had been stolen and taught the way of the criminal while he was still an innocent learner in the world, he would have shared the same fate as poor, misunderstood, innocent little KARR. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:31 pm

Mmmm, there is a more technical, and deeper reasoning behind KARR's mentality. Their primary programming. KITT's was to protect human life and the life of the driver. KARR's was to save his own chassis. KITT gave to others, while KARR was looking out for his own interests.

Obviously before KARR was stolen by transients, there was something wrong with him, since Wilton did have him deactivated, and was supposed to dismantle him, so the criminals probably had a minimal part to it. They just enhanced KARR's behavior, and gave him examples of bad manners.

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Post by KRR » Mon Aug 26, 2002 4:27 pm

KITT didn't give to humans; he was restrained from running over them. With proper care and nuturing from Michael and Bonnie he did eventually grow to love and be loved, and then he would not have harmed life even if he could have.

However, KARR didn't have any of this love and care; all he learned was hate: his very own creator, a father figure, wanted him to be destroyed, as did Devon.

Influenced by his new drivers, he was taught that he could trust no one. It wasn't his fault; all he ever wanted to do was live. And when he finally got that chance, Michael and KITT tried to destroy him; this caused him to learn more hate.

So, in the end, what had KARR really done wrong? Influenced by two wrong-doers, he grew up in a world full of people who wanted to destroy him, just because he was more human than KITT could ever hope to be.

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Post by SadArticle » Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KRR:
<STRONG>KITT didn't give to humans; he was restrained from running over them. With proper care and nuturing from Michael and Bonnie he did eventually grow to love and be loved, and then he would not have harmed life even if he could have.

So, in the end, what had KARR really done wrong? Influenced by two wrong-doers, he grew up in a world full of people who wanted to destroy him, just because he was more human than KITT could ever hope to be.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heyyyy. I like this direction! Interesting. A little pessimistic, maybe, that KARR was the more 'human', but I like the slant on Kitt. What would he have done to Berrio in 'Killer KITT', if he hadn't have had his original programming returned? He did like ramming people with his fenders and doors, that's for certain. And perhaps he wouldn't have wanted to take anybody's life, but he was never given the choice. KARR had that option, but was deemed to have a proverbial screw loose, and was shut down by Wilton Knight.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:53 pm

The direction is interesting, but slightly wrong.

Wilton Knight obviously had to have reason to deactivate KARR in the first place. Something went wrong. I wouldn't say it is because he is more human, but because of the aspects of programming that made KARR drastically different. I don't think feelings came into it at all on the AI's standpoint, until much later when he could use it to his advantage. If he did have feelings, like that, he would have broken out of the lab way before that, and fought to keep from being put in that lab.

The only real difference (sorry to disappoint all of you out there who are into the emotional aspects of things) was the primary programming, and it went from there. If KITT had been taken by Tony and the Rev, he would have driven them nuts by asking them why. With KARR, if it looked beneficial to his existance, he went for it.

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Post by Skav » Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:33 pm

I agree with you, KI, but what we are trying to say is that KITT should have been given a choice since he does have a heart and a mind of his own. What would happen if he didn't rely on the dominant programming? What choices of killing someone or doing something bad would he have chosen?

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Post by BabsBunny » Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:48 pm

I've found a weird little parallel.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Knight Rider, and Lilo and Stitch.

K.A.R.R: Programmed to be a certain way and acts as such, unaware that the mass destruction he's causing is bad. Foundation wants him destroyed as a result.

Stitch: Created to be a certain way and acts accordingly, unaware that the mass destruction he's causing is bad. Intergalactic Federation wants him destroyed as a result.

Remember folks: Ohana means family. Family means no one gets left behind or forgotten..or locked away in a warehouse. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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Post by KRR » Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:56 pm

Yes, the programming made KARR drastically different; I was pointing out the irony that KARR's prime directive gave him the human instincts of self preservation, thereby making him more human than KITT.

As the series 2000 computers are so easily reprogrammable (Killer KITT), I still wonder why Wilton Knight didn't have KARR's programming changed, instead of wasting an AI and a car.

Still, the only difference between KITT and KARR (besides the scanner and vox colors [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]) is one line of code, which puts two priorities in a different order; KITT's microprocessor values human life higher than his own in his calculations, while KARR reversed that order.

Although that would have caused some problems when he was on a mission for FLAG (covering his own rear while leaving Michael in danger, et cetera), KARR wasn't on a mission. In normal circumstances, would he have killed anyone? Granted, he would not have gone out of his way to save people, but would he randomly go about doing harm?

The answer is no, not without influence. He was still "growing up," or so to speak, just as was KITT in the first season. As I said before, KITT learned trust and love because he was trusted and loved, but KARR learned hate and fear, because he was hated and feared.

With the same care that Bonnie gave KITT, and a chance to choose for himself, I think that KARR could have become an ally. He just wasn't given that chance, not by Michael and KITT, who destroyed him, not by Bonnie, who shot him with a laser, and not by Devon nor Wilton, who both wanted him deactivated.

Oh well; I guess that's why we have fanfics. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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[ August 26, 2002: Message edited by: KRR ]

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Aug 26, 2002 8:06 pm

But who is to say that KARR didn't get that same type of attention back when he was under Wilton's care? We don't know, because it wasn't documented. In fact, KARR would have been the labor of love, and KITT would have been (as KARR said) 'the production line copy'

The one line of code (actually several lines of code in AI programming) if you changed it, may not have created something equal to KITT, because the personality had already been developed.

And yes, that is what good fan fics are for.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Aug 26, 2002 8:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babs Bunny:
<STRONG>I've found a weird little parallel.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Knight Rider, and Lilo and Stitch.

K.A.R.R: Programmed to be a certain way and acts as such, unaware that the mass destruction he's causing is bad. Foundation wants him destroyed as a result.

Stitch: Created to be a certain way and acts accordingly, unaware that the mass destruction he's causing is bad. Intergalactic Federation wants him destroyed as a result.

Remember folks: Ohana means family. Family means no one gets left behind or forgotten..or locked away in a warehouse. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Babs Bunny</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Babs! I love it! Keep it going! I had that one lingering in my mind, but wasn't sure how to state it. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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Post by BabsBunny » Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:32 pm

Well I do have anotehr parallel: Knight Rider and Calvin & Hobbes.

In both you have a young impulsive human male character (Calvin and Michael), whose best friend is a conserably more sensible and wiser non-human male character (Hobbes and K.I.T.T.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img])

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Post by SadArticle » Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:43 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KRR:
<STRONG>Although that would have caused some problems when he was on a mission for FLAG (covering his own rear while leaving Michael in danger, et cetera), KARR wasn't on a mission. In normal circumstances, would he have killed anyone? Granted, he would not have gone out of his way to save people, but would he randomly go about doing harm?
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not a happy medium? After all, Michael did say in 'Scent of Roses' (I can't believe what I'm quoting): "Kitt, I've never known you not to cover your own backside". Kitt's cautious behaviour could be interpreted as wanting to protect his own circuit boards, as well as Michael's life. When it came down to the crunch, Kitt would have given his 'life' for that of his driver's ('Knight of the Drones'), but sometimes a human will make the ultimate sacrifice for a relative or a friend.

I think I'm just trying to make Kitt sound more 'human' here, because KARR's programming would not have allowed a similar compromise.

Sarah

PS Love the 'Calvin and Hobbes' parallel, Babs - following on that line, would that make Bonnie into Calvin's neighbour Susie? I think so! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Post by JL » Tue Aug 27, 2002 1:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janeway:
<STRONG>

Much the same parallels can be drawn between Data and Lore in TNG. The vicious, selfish prototype - and the gentle, 'innocent' new and improved model.

Anyone ever noticed that the 'evil' twin is always the prototype????

Janeway</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah... Data & Lore, Michael & Garthe, KITT & KARR. It doesn't always work out that way, but then it turns out to be an imposter rather than an evil twin (the guy altered to look like Devon in "Knight of the Juggernaut".

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Post by Amianda » Tue Aug 27, 2002 1:52 pm

KARR was a prototype but I think KITT was also a prototype. I mean, according to the information provided by the show, KARR was basically scrapped and they started completely over with KITT. They kept similar things with the custom TA and by then they had developed a means to create an AI, so the base (and I'm talking way down here) programming was probably quite similar, but the personalities were different, programming is different, quite alot was different. And KITT had his own quirks and problems, which they worked on throughout the show, always fixing and upgrading and tweaking here and there.

So while KARR was most definitely a prototype, KITT was no where near a Production Line Model, because although he had been redesigned and was much better than KARR (I'm not talking cooler here, KARR fans, just in the sense that he could be worked with better than KARR originally could), he was in no way perfect, nor was he, I think refined enough for mass production. If there were to be a mass producton of AI controlled supervehicles, I believe KITT would be the prototype for them, not KARR.


Main Entry: pro·to·type
Pronunciation: 'prO-t&-"tIp
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Greek prOtotypon, from neuter of prOtotypos archetypal, from prOt- + typos type
Date: 1552
1 : an original model on which something is patterned : ARCHETYPE
2 : an individual that exhibits the essential features of a later type
3 : a standard or typical example
4 : a first full-scale and usually functional form of a new type or design of a construction (as an airplane)

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PS sorry for the tangent on a tangent [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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