Moderators: neps, Matthew, Michael Pajaro
Dude...you think too much. Reading through your post, I think that you make some valid points, but I don't see how you can enjoy any TV show if you overthink the scenes.Victor Kros wrote:Boy seriously you people are easy to please and that's ok. I for one found this episode very lacking in several ways. It wasn't a "bad" episode as say the first 9 or so but it wasn't as spectacular as people make it out to be either. It was another step down from the previous episode.
You mention the sideways turbo boost defying logic. I cannot agree with that. Whenever you watch a show like this, you create your own logic. You were apparently able to justify the turbo boost in TOS, which had no real explanation for it working - the car magically jumped. The logic you created allowed you to enjoy the moment. KR08 requires the same suspension of disbelief for viewers to enjoy it.The Turbo Boost, come on are you serious? Yeah its cool and all if you thought the movie Speed Racer was not only fun but realistic. I agree that this "jump" which is more of a "flip" defied all measures of logic but I have come to expect this from this show so like many of you, I just "roll with it". You look at Knight to Kings Pawn during the battle with KARRE and you see similair gravity defying logic.
You nitpick the gatling gun and the bullet holes. KI3T fired at the bridge for a few seconds, and then we saw the bridge. Did you notice that KI3T kept firing after we saw the bridge? What we saw was a shot of the first few bullets hitting the bridge after KI3T fired - we did not see the scenes in real time. (Otherwise, we'd have missed Mike running to the car; the entire sequence took more than 7 seconds.) This is another hallmark of TV that requires suspension of disbelief.How about KITT's gatling gun? Yet another reason to show off visual effects for the sake of eye candy. First and foremost I don't believe he fired off 4000 rounds or whatever and at what? Did it look like there was 4000 bullet holes in the bridge? Secondly the gun came out of the CENTER of the hood of KITT where as last week they came out of the side corners of the hood. What are there three guns under there then? Or is this another example of the mystical "nanotech" magically conjuring up more gear out of thin air? You notice that unlike last week's guns, this one also had an extending barrel? I bet you could have trimmed some money off the ol budget here with a more creative solution than whipping out the big CG gun to squeek through another scene.
The CO2 - think about TOS, and how they showed Michael hitting the button before Turbo Boost. It's the same concept here, only for a different application. It's easier than explaining to new fans that KI3T has CO2 emitters under his chassis - and it's also quicker. Additionally, someone out there would have questioned how KI3T could spray CO2 from under his chassis if he's got the kickplate under there. I believe they took the right route on this one.The CO2 bit? Classic Knight Rider for sure but do we have to see special tubes coming out of the headlights and all that? Is it really necessary to say you know, shooting out the CO2 from under the car? This is yet another reason to show off visual effects that didn't need to be there. I wonder just how much that little bit costs to create.
The thugs served their purpose. They were comic relief and they contributed to the story. As for why KI3T didn't detect the methane concentration around the place? I don't know. There may not be a logical explanation for that (except that methane is generally harmless and is a component of natural gas, so perhaps KI3T didn't scan it or ignored it) but I enjoyed the plot arc.I had trouble following the story at times. I understand the bit with the car thieves being a nod back to Knight of the Phoenix but the problem here is they didn't go anywhere. At least in the pilot as other members pointed out, the thieves stole KITT and were taught a lesson. Here they're just horrendously incompetent comedy relief.
I guess you could debate well they were there to reveal the whole "methane" connection but I still don't understand how this even matters? Why didn't KITT detect this sooner? Isn't KITT consistantly scanning around to help out Mike?
The scanners....from what we saw, this was a new sniffer program uploaded to KI3T from the SSC. I got the impression that Mike started to go on foot because the trail led into a building - but he didn't end up going inside. I think that's why KI3T suggested that Mike continue on foot. I could be wrong....but I think that in this case, the limitations are set because this was a program uploaded into KI3T.Case in point I get the whole "scanners" thing, yet I found it interesting that KITT's almighty technology could not scan up to a certain distance which forced Michael to have to get out on foot and scan the rest of the way. It just seemed to give KITT even more limitations than he really needs.
Again, dude, thinking WAYY too much. It's a happy ending! Go with it. If you must have your explanation, remember that the fires were a recent thing, implying that they didn't happen before the interference from the "bad guys". Maybe it won't happen again. Maybe it will. But really, I'll call this for what it is - a major nitpick.That's all well and good and I can understand being stubborn but if your bar is sitting on highly flammable gases, all the nostalgia in the world isn't going to stop it from some day burning down in fireball of chaos that will no doubt kill everyone in said bar and result in said lawsuits that will close said bar if said bar isn't destroyed in the process --- yes real logic at work here folks.
I agree that it is a little weird with the whole Traceur/Knight thing - and really, I wish they'd just stuck with Traceur and reintroduced the "Knight" surname a little ways after FLAG was introduced - because I personally like the stories where an old friend knows Mike. I loved the character interaction between Mike and Julie (I think that was her name) and that wouldn't have been possible if they didn't know each other.Then there's the "everyone from Mike's past comes to visit him" angle. Really? How long is this going to keep happening where you have to seperate "Mike Traceur" and his gang o' friends from "Michael Knight" the man who isn't supposed to exist? Yet it seems like every other episode or so there is someone (in the reboot now?) that asks for Mike's help or knows him in some way or another from his "early days".
I no longer believe that this is geared toward children. If anything, it's geared toward teens and adults now, as are most network shows after 8:00.I dislike the continued introduction of slang that shouldn't be taught in a tv show geared towards "children" -- really do you need to teach your kids what "hoochies" means did you cover "douche" yet? how about "assclown"?
Remember- KITT was in normal mode this time around. The chrome bottom with the (blacked-out?) KR logo is only in Attack Mode.DJGM wrote: The chrome underside with the Knight Research logo is gone! Although, it seems KITT's
mad scream was enough of a distraction for most people not to notice that one of the
most complained about parts of KITT's outer shell is has been removed.
Unless this was an oversight, and KITT's chrome underside is back in the season finale.
) and i think this is my first time posting. Having just watched the episode, and read through all 5 pages of discussion, I think that there are a few things that people are forgetting:If i recall correctly, this was originally meant to be the first post reboot episode. taking that into account, the quality has improved and they have nailed it, because the last few episodes have been fantastic, and really turned the whole series around.Lost Knight it was an OK episode, but they STILL haven't nailed it which is frustrating because they're closer than ever to doing so.
- TOS was in a single word, "tangible." This show is not. If you have to continue to suspend disbelief in order to buy into the logic of advanced nanotech effects, if you have to look past glaring plot holes, if you have to just "go with" things more than freely accept them as possible, that is mindless entertainment and that is a choice you make. It's not a question of what choice is right or wrong, it's the simple matter that you decide what works for you and in NBC's case, you keep watching.lunchmeat wrote:Dude...you think too much. Reading through your post, I think that you make some valid points, but I don't see how you can enjoy any TV show if you overthink the scenes.Victor Kros wrote:Boy seriously you people are easy to please and that's ok. I for one found this episode very lacking in several ways. It wasn't a "bad" episode as say the first 9 or so but it wasn't as spectacular as people make it out to be either. It was another step down from the previous episode.
- What's to over think? The fundamental structure of good writing is having answers for the who, what, where, when, why, and how. If these questions are not answered it causes plot holes and other problems. I would expect a show that is striving to be a hit to better address these problem areas "as the series goes along" and in some ways they have while in other ways they just do what they want to do and expect the audience to just "go with it."
I don't know. Maybe that's a consequence of your profession - you are the one making the Knight Rider movie, no? So maybe you catch the things we don't, or maybe they mean more to you. Perhaps we are easier to please because we can let ourselves be immersed in the moment.
- I'm not making the movie, Glen A. Larson wrote the script and I happen to think given his track record of successful television series, his ideas are more structurely sound than what has been presented with respects to the Knight Rider property today. He knew what worked then, he knows what works now. Ask yourself why Knight Rider can't get the ratings it keeps shooting for week after week. If it was getting better the ratings should have recovered from said "slump", instead its been on life support.
You mention the sideways turbo boost defying logic. I cannot agree with that. Whenever you watch a show like this, you create your own logic. You were apparently able to justify the turbo boost in TOS, which had no real explanation for it working - the car magically jumped. The logic you created allowed you to enjoy the moment. KR08 requires the same suspension of disbelief for viewers to enjoy it.The Turbo Boost, come on are you serious? Yeah its cool and all if you thought the movie Speed Racer was not only fun but realistic. I agree that this "jump" which is more of a "flip" defied all measures of logic but I have come to expect this from this show so like many of you, I just "roll with it". You look at Knight to Kings Pawn during the battle with KARRE and you see similair gravity defying logic.
- There's something more believable about a car going off a ramp in a straight line than there is doing a sideways flip and landing perfectly unharmed.Granted KITT is nearly invulnerable and I already pointed out this turbo "flip" didn't bother me as much given the action in the KARRE battle before --- still it doesn't logically work and even in the original Knight Rider for the most parts you saw a jump you didn't sit there and think "that's not even possible" because it had enough realism to sell it as a probable impossiblity, not a improbable one like transforming nano-tech.
When it comes to story there are two scenrios that can make or break a movie. The probable impossiblity like say a flying DeLorean in the Back to the Future movies -- you know it can't fly, it can't go back in time, but you have such an engaging story and solid visual design that you suspend disbelief and go with the idea it can do what Doc Brown says it can do.
Then you have the improbable possiblity. This is mostly in romance movies where a guy hard on his luck just so happens to find a lottery ticket that grants him millions of dollars while running into the woman of his dreams while getting caught in a meteor shower (like in Armageddon perhaps) that all of a sudden burns up the very same lottery ticket and injurs the woman he loves. He tries to get in a car but the battery is dead. Two seconds after he gets out of the car, it explodes for whatever reason. As the guy runs down the street a plane crashes into a building, gas manes break, then it starts raining to put all the fires out. It just goes on and on.
This is what you call the coincidental scenerio, which tends to then fall into the realm of predictability and cliches. While some cliches work, more often than not in an impossible probability you know something can't work, you don't understand how it can work, and yet you decide that for the sake of the storyline you just suspend your disbelief even though everything you see as the plot moves along raises red flags of things that simply don't make any sense or are just too easily given or encountered.
Trust me, this latter scenerio is more common than people think and it has a tendency to tank movies at the box office and shows on television for that matter. The probable impossiblity is what leads to blockbuster movies and consequent "successful" sequels. I would call Transformers a probable impossibility because the aliens are machines and the machines mimic our technology --- we believe that its possible for these robots to disguise themselves into vehicles because it is realistically (for the most part compared to the cartoon) depicted how its possible even though at the end of the day it's alien technology, not our own.
You nitpick the gatling gun and the bullet holes. KI3T fired at the bridge for a few seconds, and then we saw the bridge. Did you notice that KI3T kept firing after we saw the bridge? What we saw was a shot of the first few bullets hitting the bridge after KI3T fired - we did not see the scenes in real time. (Otherwise, we'd have missed Mike running to the car; the entire sequence took more than 7 seconds.) This is another hallmark of TV that requires suspension of disbelief.How about KITT's gatling gun? Yet another reason to show off visual effects for the sake of eye candy. First and foremost I don't believe he fired off 4000 rounds or whatever and at what? Did it look like there was 4000 bullet holes in the bridge? Secondly the gun came out of the CENTER of the hood of KITT where as last week they came out of the side corners of the hood. What are there three guns under there then? Or is this another example of the mystical "nanotech" magically conjuring up more gear out of thin air? You notice that unlike last week's guns, this one also had an extending barrel? I bet you could have trimmed some money off the ol budget here with a more creative solution than whipping out the big CG gun to squeek through another scene.
- So what? This doesn't change my point.
I do agree with the gatling gun in the center - it's a valid point. I would have liked to see it off to the side for the sake of continuity. And as for the extending barrel and "where everything came from", yes, it's the nanotech. Look up molecular assemblers and nanotech assemblers - it's a valid subject and it's been popular in sci-fi for a long time.
-Still not how nanotech is supposed to work and I have been over the whole nanotech vs Transformers technology debate too many times to get into it all again. The bottom line, impossible probability you're expected to just "go with" and if you go with it and you find it "cool" then all the better -- the show does it job to entertain you.
The CO2 - think about TOS, and how they showed Michael hitting the button before Turbo Boost. It's the same concept here, only for a different application. It's easier than explaining to new fans that KI3T has CO2 emitters under his chassis - and it's also quicker. Additionally, someone out there would have questioned how KI3T could spray CO2 from under his chassis if he's got the kickplate under there. I believe they took the right route on this one.The CO2 bit? Classic Knight Rider for sure but do we have to see special tubes coming out of the headlights and all that? Is it really necessary to say you know, shooting out the CO2 from under the car? This is yet another reason to show off visual effects that didn't need to be there. I wonder just how much that little bit costs to create.
- Needless CG was my point and I'm sticking to it. It's about as useless to me as KITT being on fire in the pilot episode (not the backdoor pilot) and being unable to put himself out or put the A/C inside the cabin of the car. Just doesn't make sense other than the old loophole "it happens this way because it's in the script."
The thugs served their purpose. They were comic relief and they contributed to the story. As for why KI3T didn't detect the methane concentration around the place? I don't know. There may not be a logical explanation for that (except that methane is generally harmless and is a component of natural gas, so perhaps KI3T didn't scan it or ignored it) but I enjoyed the plot arc.I had trouble following the story at times. I understand the bit with the car thieves being a nod back to Knight of the Phoenix but the problem here is they didn't go anywhere. At least in the pilot as other members pointed out, the thieves stole KITT and were taught a lesson. Here they're just horrendously incompetent comedy relief.
I guess you could debate well they were there to reveal the whole "methane" connection but I still don't understand how this even matters? Why didn't KITT detect this sooner? Isn't KITT consistantly scanning around to help out Mike?
The scanners....from what we saw, this was a new sniffer program uploaded to KI3T from the SSC. I got the impression that Mike started to go on foot because the trail led into a building - but he didn't end up going inside. I think that's why KI3T suggested that Mike continue on foot. I could be wrong....but I think that in this case, the limitations are set because this was a program uploaded into KI3T.Case in point I get the whole "scanners" thing, yet I found it interesting that KITT's almighty technology could not scan up to a certain distance which forced Michael to have to get out on foot and scan the rest of the way. It just seemed to give KITT even more limitations than he really needs.
Again, dude, thinking WAYY too much. It's a happy ending! Go with it. If you must have your explanation, remember that the fires were a recent thing, implying that they didn't happen before the interference from the "bad guys". Maybe it won't happen again. Maybe it will. But really, I'll call this for what it is - a major nitpick.That's all well and good and I can understand being stubborn but if your bar is sitting on highly flammable gases, all the nostalgia in the world isn't going to stop it from some day burning down in fireball of chaos that will no doubt kill everyone in said bar and result in said lawsuits that will close said bar if said bar isn't destroyed in the process --- yes real logic at work here folks.
- You have your views on what makes a sound happy ending and I have mine.
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well may be here) but I only remember Mike using the name "Michael Knight" in what was supposed to be the season finale. It seems like it's an alias that he only uses with government agents, or people who ask him for his full name. Generally, as far as I've seen, he just goes by Mike.
I agree that it is a little weird with the whole Traceur/Knight thing - and really, I wish they'd just stuck with Traceur and reintroduced the "Knight" surname a little ways after FLAG was introduced - because I personally like the stories where an old friend knows Mike. I loved the character interaction between Mike and Julie (I think that was her name) and that wouldn't have been possible if they didn't know each other.Then there's the "everyone from Mike's past comes to visit him" angle. Really? How long is this going to keep happening where you have to seperate "Mike Traceur" and his gang o' friends from "Michael Knight" the man who isn't supposed to exist? Yet it seems like every other episode or so there is someone (in the reboot now?) that asks for Mike's help or knows him in some way or another from his "early days".
I no longer believe that this is geared toward children. If anything, it's geared toward teens and adults now, as are most network shows after 8:00.I dislike the continued introduction of slang that shouldn't be taught in a tv show geared towards "children" -- really do you need to teach your kids what "hoochies" means did you cover "douche" yet? how about "assclown"?
- Finally someone agrees.
Overall, I respect your opinions, and I think that you have some valid points. I just don't agree with many of them. Note that although I might come across as a bit overbearing, I mean no disrespect to you by any of the things I've said.
- Overbearing and disagreeing isn't being disrespectful and I respect your opinion and your right to disagree with me. Everyone has a different way of viewing things and I find it intriguing to explore those viewpoints and see who does or does not agree with how I perceive things.
A television show of this nature is about suspending disbelief; this is why TOS worked, and it's why KR08 will work. I don't know about you, but I personally tune in to Knight Rider to have a good time and escape reality a little bit. It's a fun show! When we were younger, we tuned into TOS for the same reasons. You say that KR08 is now "mindless entertainment" - I ask you, then, what was TOS?
Lol even TOS wasn't tangible, when I was a kid watching and Kitt used one of his mystic functions (magically opening hand-cuffs for example) I was like "yeah riiiiiggghhhtttt" ummm....that said, now I'm older I believe it more, go figure?Victor Kros wrote:
- TOS was in a single word, "tangible." This show is not. If you have to continue to suspend disbelief in order to buy into the logic of advanced nanotech effects, if you have to look past glaring plot holes, if you have to just "go with" things more than freely accept them as possible, that is mindless entertainment and that is a choice you make. It's not a question of what choice is right or wrong, it's the simple matter that you decide what works for you and in NBC's case, you keep watching.
=VK=
Absolutely California KNIGHT needs to make a comeback....Tony P Knight Driver wrote:Awsome Episode!!
Loved it real old school Knight Rider.
right down to this. Man I love it when a plan comes together!![/color]
lol). And the "baddie" to boot!? awesome! LOL 
Yeah I have to admit the Sdieways TB was top notch! Never saw TOS Kitt do that! LOLSue wrote:Okay I finally got around to watching it a second time. The writing in this episode was top notch. I love all the banter in the beginning, especially KITT reminding Mike that WE are going.
The two thieves trying to break into KITT was very TOS. I even liked this one more than TOS, these thieves were a tad less slapstick. But even more TOS.. did any one notice... Mike was going to have a day off and got dragged into work. That was soooo TOS im sooo happy.
And the sideways turbo boost was cool too.
Oh and I love EMMA FordFilly
LOL) Well putFordFilly82 wrote:
On another note: I'm beginning to think the "hard core" fans are being...well..HARD on KR and are in fact the ones wanting it to fail.
There has never been *any* ...oh what is that word that's going around....Oh i remember "Tangible"...Tangible-ness to KR.
And while I admit I am fairly new to the fandom, I am really getting tired of all the minuscule nitpicking going about how the technology isn't right, or they don't like Billy & Zoe, or Sarah/Mike triangle is getting old..Ok i get that one...BUT, these people are sounding like they want a carbon copy, clone of TOS.
If you're that longing for TOS, go to tvondvd.com and buy the series.
This is Knight Rider for 2008, not Knight Rider for 1988.
And one more "gripe"; While I did kinda cringe when Mike used SOB on screen how many of us did the SAME thing back in 1991 when high and mighty, clean mouthed, KITT said the now immortal phrase: Nothing worse than a smartass automobile?
So no offense intended but stuff your "They can't cuss on TV " theology. It was beginning waaaay back in the 90's.
Ok...I'm done! LOL
All in all, I hope NBC does something to promote KR and I hope that they decide to bring it back in the fall. See some of you in two weeks!
I'll second that, maybe not quite as much as last weeks but I loved it!Sue wrote:Okay I finally got around to watching it a second time. The writing in this episode was top notch. I love all the banter in the beginning, especially KITT reminding Mike that WE are going.
The two thieves trying to break into KITT was very TOS. I even liked this one more than TOS, these thieves were a tad less slapstick. But even more TOS.. did any one notice... Mike was going to have a day off and got dragged into work. That was soooo TOS im sooo happy.
And the sideways turbo boost was cool too.
Oh and I love EMMA FordFilly
Oh my God. Can anyone say DRAMA QUEEN!!Victor Kros wrote:You know what? I'm done. I'm done explaining myself, I'm done trying to explain things to others with an unbaised mind, and I'm most certainly done with defending myself or my beliefs. You want to know my thoughts about any further new series subjects, send me a PM. Feel free to trash TOS or glorify the new one for all its strengths and weaknesses, frankly I don't care at this point. The floors all yours. If anyone wants to take up the mantle of defending respect for TOS, I wish you the best of luck.
