The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

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The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:27 pm

I thought I'd start a thread to hopefully address some of what we like and maybe even would like to see changed in the voice globe display. Hopefully the VFX guys will read the thread and maybe think over some of the ideas in case they ever have the idea to make changes.

Overall, I'm not crazy about a globe. And it's too busy. The only thing I liked about it was the original 3-bar vox. The thing is, that was so faint and everything else going on in there kinda made it hard to see what exactly is going on.

My suggestions if you're going to use the globe are:

1. Get rid of the ghosting and the sine-wave red lines.
2. Make the 3-bar SLIGHTLY more prominent. Not too out there but so we can see it more.
3. The red light is a nice idea, that points to the person that is talking. Kinda reminds me of KR2000 movie where KITT was disassembled and a red light looked at Micheal. BUT, why not instead of that, and the sine waves, this:

How about a faux scanner that goes back and forth (not like on the front) through the 3-bar, and when someone is talking or KITT is talking, the scanner eye stops and holds steady in that direction?

Just some ideas... anyone else please feel free to join in. What did you like about the new vox? If you feel things should be changed, what would you like to see changed? How would YOU have designed it?

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby Taichi » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:09 pm

One feature that I really liked was that "eye", but also the fact that the sine-wave lines were thicker in the direction he was looking and trailed off the other way, not just his "eye", but his voice was being projected to the person as well.

But I definitely agree it's too busy, not to mention it'll be really hard for people wanting to make replicas to have an actual working vox.

I say leave it the globe, take away the sine-wave, make the 3-bars more prominent, leave the "eye" and tone down the rippling effect.

I just really like the "eye". I think it gives KITT more personality, in the fact that the viewer knows who he is directing his attention to.

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby krenigma » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:18 pm

Hey Fuzziedice,

This is Krenigma, from the Knight Rider VFX team. As one of the people who designed the current Vox, so far we've gotten quite a good reaction to it, but I totally understand your concerns. We made sure to include the bars as a tribute to the original Vox, but when designing an element like that we tried to balance the wishes of fans and making something new and different for the new generation. In fact, the whole show is like that, hopefully balancing the two.

I like to think the blue data disappearing into the ether is Kitt's processor accessing and downloading countless amounts of data, the new KITT needs to be so much faster and access so much more than the old and we needed to show that. It has to be complex without looking too busy... the whole graphic had to feel purposeful and intelligent.

What'd you think of the way KITT uses his eye to scan the documents on the seat?

To fuzziedice and anyone else, feel free to post your own designs for the Vox, it'd be fun for us to see other ideas!

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby Michael Pajaro » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:44 pm

I confess, I stepped through some of the vox scenes frame by frame looking for hidden words in the swirling data... nothing so far, unless it's all in binary :)
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby PHOENIXZERO » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:48 pm

I liked that effect, I think I have to look at it again but it came out as a single beam, was it just a the lighting against the white background on the front of the folder or did the beam split in two or somehow spread out on the folder while scanning?

Scanning that way could certainly have other uses as well I think the most obviously is people in the vehicle for internal injuries or something. Though that probably wouldn't be necessary.
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby neps » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:02 pm

kitt_vm.jpg
kitt_vm.jpg (30.96 KiB) Viewed 36782 times


Just adding the VM for people to have it in front of them.

Overall I dugg it. It feels organic and dynamic overall.

I like the Code in the background - though it looks like it's stationary - and just the ripple above it gives the feeling that it's moving?

I too wish the old school VM was more visible. We really appreciate it being included at all - but it seems only be there a tenth of the time the VM was on screen. I know you mentioned to us when we met that the VM is tied into be dynamic with the audio file - so it actually responds correctly - maybe the old VM just needs a little + value in that document?

I didn't realize the Dot was his eye until it was mentioned here. I don't think there is actually a part where we see it move from one person to another or track something, so it just seemed like a glare or a flare intitially - but now I get it as an eye. If you saw it move from one position to another or change focus on things, it might read better.

As for the scanning - to be constructive - I'm not sold on it - but I'm not sure what you could have done either? You guys went to great lengths to make the Turbo Boost believable - and we've heard that alot from interviews that if they were to do turbo boost, it had to be logically possible and explainable.

KITT scanning the document, as well as transferring the files didn't seem to have the same attention to detail on it. I get the scanning of the document - placing it on the dash and there can be some transfer element inside the console - but the visual of it floating into the HUD either seemed a bit disconnected.

But this is world is pure fiction - and I only critique cause we were asked. Nothing I've said would take me out of the episode if I was watching it unchanged from it's current state.

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby PHOENIXZERO » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:07 pm

I saw the beam as, well I don't want to say "X-Raying" through the pages but able to go through them layer by layer, page by page that way.
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:42 pm

krenigma wrote:This is Krenigma, from the Knight Rider VFX team.


Welcome! :) Good to see you looking in on the threads.

krenigma wrote:As one of the people who designed the current Vox, so far we've gotten quite a good reaction to it, but I totally understand your concerns. We made sure to include the bars as a tribute to the original Vox, but when designing an element like that we tried to balance the wishes of fans and making something new and different for the new generation. In fact, the whole show is like that, hopefully balancing the two.


And you folks done that so well. In other threads we were just discussing some of the things we found familiar in the new show. There's a LOT there that is VERY Knight Rider. Loved it! :)

I think it's great you're trying to please everyone. And you did good. But I think in trying to please everyone, it sometimes reminds me of the saying "Too many cooks spoil the pot." I'm not saying the vox is bad. Obviously people do like it. I personally am not crazy about it. But that's just my opinion. In trying to please everyone you have to sometimes put your foot down and say "ok, this is finished, even if we left some things out."

I just thought from my viewpoint (and was also wondering if others thought the same) that it was too busy. Also was wondering what folks liked about it so maybe I could see things that I might have missed after 3 viewings (I probably will view it several times more. That's how much I really liked the show overall! :) )

krenigma wrote:I like to think the blue data disappearing into the ether is Kitt's processor accessing and downloading countless amounts of data, the new KITT needs to be so much faster and access so much more than the old and we needed to show that. It has to be complex without looking too busy... the whole graphic had to feel purposeful and intelligent.


I'm sorry to say that I totally missed that. It was after Neil posted the image (thank you Neil :) ) that I see what you're talking about. To me, it looked like distorted moving fractal graphics and made everything else (particularly the 3-bar vox) hard to view. When the action is going so fast and things are not shown on the screen for only seconds at a time, I tend to miss a lot of things. Some people are far more observant than I am, I'm sure. To me, I just see a conglomeration of things on the screen and it sometimes confuses me. I have to confess, that is a flaw of mine. I have a hard time with fast action so my mind seems to have compensated by just taking in the gist of things and eliminating a lot of detail. I just need someone to point things out to me sometimes or I miss stuff.

I think the data thing, plus eye, plus vox bars, plus sine wave lines is a bit too much. The matrix data thing probably would be nice on the HUD instead, while he's calling up data or storing it for later.

krenigma wrote:What'd you think of the way KITT uses his eye to scan the documents on the seat?


That was his 'eye' that did that? Dangit, I missed that too. :? I thought the beam came from 'somewhere' but didn't catch exactly where. Also I was left thinking (being a computer programmer, that gives me the bad habit of over-analyzing some things :roll: ) 'how can a computer scan a document under the pages'? I thought he wasn't going to get far just looking at the top cover. But just as I type this, I just remembered how they are using computers to scan and interpret the Dead Sea Scrolls *through the layers*. So it would suffice that KITT would be able to do the same thing, even better since he'd be higher technology. So the logistics is a good one.

I loved it that he 'thought' to look at the document after the conversation. It was a nice effect, showing that KITT was curious of what the contents of the file was, and that he was not just looking but possibly storing the information. Much better effect than, say, showing the document on the seat and playing some kind of music as if something is happening, etc. So yeah, I liked that part. Worked quite well in the scene. And the scan lines were great - reminds you of an actual scanner (instead of thin laser lines for example, which work better in other areas).

krenigma wrote:To fuzziedice and anyone else, feel free to post your own designs for the Vox, it'd be fun for us to see other ideas!


I hope you won't mind I grabbed the image from Neil's post. :) I may play around with it maybe this weekend. I still would like to see how my faux scanner idea would work out (with animation and all). I might do it and decide "na, that wasn't such a great idea". But then again I don't know. I'll try some stuff out. I am just curious what some of my own ideas really would look like, is all.

Of course if you and the crew think things are good as they are and you like the feedback it's getting, then of course you know you don't need to change anything or change what you like. Like I said, you can't please everyone. :) I will be happy no matter what you do. Even if I do miss a few things or things seem a bit off to me. It's a great show and it's entertaining.

Keep up the great work! :)

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:11 pm

Ok, here are a couple mockups I did. Personally, I like the 2nd one once I started playing with it. I'll put my descriptions under the images.

Image

This is what I was thinking. I hadn't at first superimposed the original VM into it though and thought it looked to "blank" ironically. LOL! So I made the rest of it very faint. I was complaining of it having TOO much and being too busy. So I don't think I like my idea here either, as it just adds more to it with the scanner. Sorry I couldn't animate right now. Too much work for tonight. Anyway, I put it here anyway for viewing but I don't think I like this one.

Image

The more I played with it, the more I realize that maybe I just was seeing too much. So I thought about how others were saying make the vox prominent and the rest more subdued. So I did this one. I actually think the FX guys should maybe leave everything they did after all (see? I don't always know what I'm talking about on first impressions. LOL!) but much more subdued with the vox more prominent as in here. It's like KITT floating in space.

I didn't experiment with the eye yet. But maybe instead of a bright red dot, more of a lens flare type thing? Maybe I'll play with it again another day.

But I think this vox thing is more what I was thinking as for the 3-bar thing.

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby BlueChaos » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:56 pm

FuzzieDice, that second VOX design of yours is magnificent! I loved it. For the eye maybe they can keep the original design, plus maybe adding a horizontal thin line through that 'eye' to act like a 'track' for it to move left and right.
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:56 pm

Maybe something more like this?

Image

Used a regular blurred red line layer blended the opacity down a bit, and then added a lens-flare red eye.

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:58 pm

Here's KITT staring straight ahead (center). The vox eye is visible behind the 3-bar but doesn't distract from it, I don't think.

Image

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:00 am

I have a PSD of this, if the FX guys are interested in the PSD, please do PM me and I can arrange for it to be given (via link or email). There aren't any effect layers it's straight PSD and some layer blends like screen, etc. and opacity settings and done in Paint Shop Pro but will open in photoshop just fine. (I also have PhotoShop Elements 5 so I can test it there too, if needed).

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby BlueChaos » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:08 am

Yeah, maybe something like that! Would be more interesting if the VFX team could make the horizontal red line scanning left and right, just like you had originally suggested in your first design.

Another idea would be to make the red line not horizontal, but somewhat circular, like the line is on the outer part of the globe, kinda "wrapped" around the globe. So thinking in 3D, it would be like the bars are in the center of the globe (maybe they can achieve that look with shadow effects), while the 'eye' is in the outer part of the globe.

Something like this as a basis of design:
Image

And imagine if you watch it directly from the top down so it looks like a 2D circle, the 3 bars would be in the middle (center) of the circle while the eye would be in the circle's outer line (the orbit). I'm not sure if I can put it into words correctly so I hope you would be able to understand me well, but I think the original VOX made by the VFX team (picture by Neil above) nailed this 'circular' idea pretty well already.
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby Sue » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:53 am

Humm I think that dot is his eye! That’s just a little creepy it reminds me of Sauron.
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby BlueChaos » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:55 am

Sue wrote:Humm I think that dot is his eye! That’s just a little creepy it reminds me of Sauron.

Actually it reminds me of this:

Image
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby Sky_Blue_Civic » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:00 am

I was reading this post with a friend,and he said that the swirling data reminds him of Cortana from the Halo games when her hologram pops up.
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:08 am

This is crude, I know, and I'm not a great animator. I didn't animate the vox so if it was done with vox it might be way too much. But then the vox would only appear if the light was stable, maybe? (I didn't think of that when I did the frames). But maybe the "eye" would double as a scanner light? Like this? (Please wait for it all to download as the video might stick a bit until it gets done. It loops only once so you might have to refresh this page again with SHIFT+CTRL + refresh to see it right).

Image

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:19 am

Ok, here's another and it's looping, and the vox appearing only when the eye is steady. Maybe something like this?

Image

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby BlueChaos » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:19 am

"That's more like it, Mr. FuzzieDice..." :good:

The second image is amazing, you even nailed the 'circular' thingie I was talking above just right, I can see that the red line is thicker on the front and thinner on the back, giving it a perfect circular look. Now let's see what the VFX team can do about employing this!
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby Faithful Car KRO » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:34 am

i have to say, i like the VOX as is...
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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby FuzzieDice » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:06 pm

BlueChaos: Well, I don't like now how I animated it where it stopped in the center. :lol: As for the lines, the thin line in the back is actually what the VFX guys had in their version. I superimposed their version under mine. So mine I just warped the line in the animation frames to give it a bit of a curve.

In practice, the center dot wouldn't stay lit like that but the scanner would keep going back and forth unless KITT was talking, then it would stop at the direction the person he's addressing and the 3-bar vox animation would start up in sync with the voice. I was also thinking as KITT talks, maybe the swirling binary eddy would slightly brighten and dim in sync with his voice, and when he's not talking, just softly swirl in the background (I bet that's what they did and I missed it in the show though so forgive if it's that way already and I didn't notice. LOL!)

I got things to do today so I don't know if I'll have time to play around with some more of my ideas.

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby Stargazer » Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:53 pm

krenigma wrote:Hey Fuzziedice,

This is Krenigma, from the Knight Rider VFX team. As one of the people who designed the current Vox, so far we've gotten quite a good reaction to it, but I totally understand your concerns. We made sure to include the bars as a tribute to the original Vox, but when designing an element like that we tried to balance the wishes of fans and making something new and different for the new generation. In fact, the whole show is like that, hopefully balancing the two.

I like to think the blue data disappearing into the ether is Kitt's processor accessing and downloading countless amounts of data, the new KITT needs to be so much faster and access so much more than the old and we needed to show that. It has to be complex without looking too busy... the whole graphic had to feel purposeful and intelligent.

What'd you think of the way KITT uses his eye to scan the documents on the seat?

To fuzziedice and anyone else, feel free to post your own designs for the Vox, it'd be fun for us to see other ideas!


Flat out, I like the new one over the 2hr show

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby MR2NR » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:27 am

I do like the Feb. Movie VOX over the "ball". It just looks too kiddy. I know that's where you want a lot of you viewers coming from but I think the parents usually have the remote :). The ball is trying too hard and it really reminds me of Disney's "The Navigator" That thing even scared me as a kid but the corny pee wee Herman voice fixed that :). I agree with the OP it should just be a nice three bar VOX with the other stuff in the background on a flat panel just make it something other than a ball. It also reminds me of my daughters walker she has a clear ball that it looks like as well. The Feb Movie was very close too what you'd expect in the newest Mustang.

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Re: The New Vox - Ideas and Suggestions

Postby bige12 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:44 am

I think after the first couple episode I'm thinking the Voice Module will change just like it did in the orginial series in the first season. in The first season of the orginial series KITTs VM was just a red box, then couple episode late they change it the 3 bars, I have feeling that will probally happen in the new series


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