Was the new KARR a Halston drone?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:25 am

Everyone knows of Halston's drones in the Season 3 opener.

That version of KARR in KvK was just not KARR. The new coat of paint, the yellow lights, the scanner noise, Darth Vader instead of Optimus Prime as a voice, even a California KARR licence plate! So I ask, was the new KARR a Halston drone? Kept under sand specifically for having a go at Michael and KITT?

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:31 am

Arjun wrote:Everyone knows of Halston's drones in the Season 3 opener.

That version of KARR in KvK was just not KARR. The new coat of paint, the yellow lights, the scanner noise, Darth Vader instead of Optimus Prime as a voice, even a California KARR licence plate! So I ask, was the new KARR a Halston drone? Kept under sand specifically for having a go at Michael and KITT?

I think that´s good thinking, Arjun but K.A.R.R in the episode called K.I.T.T vs. K.A.R.R wasn´t created by Dr. Halston. The color of the K.A.R.R was different simply because John (the guy who helped K.A.R.R in the episode) had painted it or had it painted. The yellow scanner light was the result of being in the sea-water for a long period of time. The sea-water had damaged K.A.R.R´s systems so that´s why the skanner light was yellow.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:04 am

I don't think John could have got the car painted when he found it under sand, already painted.

I have read about this 'red going yellow due to sea water' for a long time. Don't know how sea water can make red go yellow, especially glass. And that voice. Definitely, it's something different.

Joe Huth · Post by **Joe Huth** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:59 am

A reasonable explanation for both the scanner changing color and K.A.R.R.'s altered voice is that the seawater and beach conditions corroded certain circuits. As far as the paint job - there's a scene that is cut from syndication (but was aired on NBC in '84) where K.A.R.R. asks John to alter his appearance. The next time you see him is when he pulls up to that ATM machine, where he is black and grey.

Joe

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:01 am

Arjun wrote:I don't think John could have got the car painted when he found it under sand, already painted.

I have read about this 'red going yellow due to sea water' for a long time. Don't know how sea water can make red go yellow, especially glass. And that voice. Definitely, it's something different.

Was K.A.R.R already painted when John found it? I remember it was all black, just like K.I.T.T. is. In the end, I remember K.A.R.R was partly grey. However, I can remember wrong.

About that "sea-water"-thing. I think it´s meant to be in Knight Rider-logic that sea-water has had effect on the K.A.R.R´s scanner-light. It´s impossible, at least unpropable, that the sea-water can have that kind of effect in the real life. However, there has been all kinds of impossible things in other Knight Rider-episodes.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:39 pm

Still, you cannot count out the personality factor.

KARR was a shay, evil machine that could talk and think in this episode.

But the original KARR was just an aggressive machine whose main aim was self-preservation and it served anyone who reactivated it. For some time, that is.

knightimmortal · Post by **knightimmortal** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:58 pm

If you were abandoned in the surf for so many years, how pleased would you be with those who you presumed left you there for dead?

KARR is more than a machine, as is KITT. KARR is an AI. A being that evolves. Just as you would most likely be ticked off, so was he. KARR could talk and think in Trust Doesn't Rust, too, but he didn't have the anger.

KI

KFCreator · Post by **KFCreator** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:38 pm

I agree that the logic behind the scanner changing yellow and the voice being different is reasonable. You see it all the time in the real world, where a red sign that has been out in the sun for a long time can turn yellow and it's definitiely possible that the seawater eroded some internal circuits and caused the voice to be different. However, I have always wondered how John could paint K.A.R.R. on top of his molecular bonded shell. I always assumed that the molecular bonded shell was applied AFTER the paint, because otherwise when K.I.T.T. got shot by bullets or hit by some blast, wouldn't the paint chip off? In Junk Yard Dog Michael applies K.I.T.T.'s paint last, presumably after the MBS was already coated onto the skin of the car. But if that's true, wouldn't the paint chip off or wear off gradually?

As far as K.A.R.R. being a Halston creation, it might make for an interesting fan fic but I don't think it would hold up very well using logic. It's unlikely that Halston even knew about K.I.T.T., let alone K.A.R.R. And it is true that the drone cars were just that--drones. Remotely controlled cars, just on a larger scale but with absolutely no AI. Besides, it's unlikely that Halston would have either ahd the funds to take on such a project or even had the engineering expertise to create a perfect replica all by himself. And besides, there are other clues within KvK that hint that it was in fact K.A.R.R. from TDR, such as right at the beginning when K.I.T.T. notices that K.A.R.R. is broadcasting on their private carrier wave, which wasn't supposed to be possible except if it was a Foundation-created vehicle. And, K.A.R.R. had knowledge of his previous encounter with Michael and K.I.T.T., which makes it even more unlikely that he had been pre-programmed by Halston with those memories. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

knightimmortal · Post by **knightimmortal** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:46 pm

It would have been almost more logical to say that KARR x2 or KARR period had to have been Marco Berio's creation, huh?

And I agree, the concept of John painting KARR is a little over the top in our continuity world, but it is how they did explain it in the episode. Of course, John also suddenly acquired the knowledge to install a laser too.... It's gotta be the Michael Knight spontaneous knowledge phenomena. Sort of like UFO's and Yeti, quite unexplainable.

KI

nivek · Post by **nivek** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:01 pm

It's gotta be the Michael Knight spontaneous knowledge phenomena

KI you mean the thing that drives kitt mad about micheal.

Knicks4973 · Post by **Knicks4973** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:03 pm

To what the MBS really is, I don't think a real answer has been given.

Throughout the series, many explaination have been given.

In the pilot, Devon explains KITT's MBS as follows:

"It isn't paint. It's a finish bonded into the molecular structure of a new substance. It isn't metal, and it isn't Fiberglass."

In Goliath, the MBS was explained as a spray when it was applied to Goliath. In JYD, I don't think it was explained and in KOTJ, the MBS was neutralized by a spray.

As for paint being applied OVER the MBS, in Custom KITT, KITT was repainted slightly. In KvK, the gray color was painted over KARR's MBS.

That paint would probably chip after time, leaving the undercoat perfectly fine.

The biggest problem I had with KR, after seeing and reading about it now, is consistency. After seeing KvK, you now have to assume KARR had his KARR licence plates in TDR, when in fact when u watched he didn't. In the world of KR, he did. And same for his voice. To us it changed. In the world of KR, it didn't, or nobody said anything about it.

His scanner being yellow in KvK might be a consistency error. In the world of KR, it might have always been yellow, when in fact, it was red, then now yellow.

The David Halstrom theory for creating KARR for KvK is an interesting one, but with very little chance of happening. There are too many variables for him to have known. Unless Bonnie told him everything when she was working with him. Even then, to create KARR would take enormous amount of money which Halstrom probably never had. Bonnie never knew the formula for the MBS. It's an interesting theory, though now that I think about it, Bonnie new everything there is to know about KITT, and could have inadvertently passed it on the Halstrom. But the chances are very slim. What you have here is KARR being buried under the sand for almost 3 years. Plain and simple.

Kaine · Post by **Kaine** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:11 am

well, the explanation that sea-water changed the colour of the scanner was not given in the episode. it is more a product of the fans trying to find an explanation for the new scanner in the TV-show.
actually in "trust doens't rust" KARR's scanner was red because they used the same car for shooting that they used for KITT because of budget issues in the first season.
when Knight Rider got more popular and they saved a lot money by using models instead of crashing real trans ams every day they had a bigger budget in season 3. so they took the "older" season 2 KITT car and changed the voice box and the scanner to get an individual KARR.
you could only guess that KARR was always ment to have a yellow scanner but budget reasons didn't let them do it in the first episode.
and the different voice... well it's obvious that Peter Cullen had no free time or was not interested in speaking KARR a second time...
well, if it makes you happy believe it was salt-water or whatever, but you are searching for an in-series-explanation where there is none.

(hope i didn't take away anybody's visions

)

KITTfan · Post by **KITTfan** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:51 am

As for KARR's scannercolour, I'm not so sure it was a budget thing. I mean, how much can a peace of yellow plexiglass cost? Not too much for tv production I think and the 2-tone paintjob must've been more expensive than that.
I tend to believe that the changes were made on purpose so the viewers would know easier which one is KITT and which one's KARR.
<Edit>
Anyway, TDR and KvsK are the greatest Knight Rider episodes in my opinion

</Edit>

-KITTfan-

PS: Thanks KalEl for the correction

Skav · Post by **Skav** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:29 pm

that's true.

i guess, when i think about it, there is no excuse not to include the yellow scanner in TDR. they put red scanners on the KITT TA's, so why not yellow?

unless yellow cost a bit more than red? the KITT scanner was unique anyway, so a yellow one, being as they would have only had to have used it once (TDR time point), it might have cost more. i don't know.

but if not, i can't think of a reason why they couldn't afford it.

they did the voice box yellow, after all.

Skav

knightimmortal · Post by **knightimmortal** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:47 pm

Remember, for the most part, the voice boxes were filmed as 'in-house props', and even in TDR, and KVK, there are incidences when the lights are being operated on the voice boxes, and they reflect red instead of yellow.

Anything that seems to be out in the field, (the scanner attached to the car, the voice box in the car, rather than on a soundstage) seemed to be more difficult to change in TDR, and considering that Knight Rider was on a much more limited budget in the first season, because it was having to prove itself, they may not have been able to go that extra mile.

KI

KalEl · Post by **KalEl** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:33 am

KITTfan wrote: Anyway, TDR and KvsK are one of the greatest Knight Rider episodes in my opinion

-KITTfan-

No offense intedned but actually they are two of the greatest KR episodes in your opinion.

KalEl · Post by **KalEl** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:16 am

Just an FYI, the voice of K.A.R.R. in TdR is that of Peter Cullen. In KvK it is Paul Frees.

knightendo · Post by **knightendo** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:17 am

i have a question. everyone says that the scene where KARR asks for his appearance to be altered was deleted for syndication. now, i understand that that means the show is trimmed in the US to make way for more adverts. however, in the UK the original-length shows are shown (albeit with trims for any violence or references deemed unsuitable to daytime viewing in rare circumstances), so the scene we're talking about is the scene where KARR follows John out of the hospital car park, yeh? when one of his lines is simply "and i wish to alter my appearance". we never see it happen, in any version, right? just wanted to get this cleared up in my own head lol.

Knicks4973 · Post by **Knicks4973** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:39 pm

I have a full version of KvK that has KARR telling John he wants to change his apperance.

It is the scene right before KARR notices that Eddie has a pacemaker.

knightendo · Post by **knightendo** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:59 am

is it not the scene after eddie has already been administered into the hospital...? just curious so i know if it's the same scene or not.

Knicks4973 · Post by **Knicks4973** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:07 pm

No, before. KARR is in the garage when he discovers Eddie has a pacemaker. I have the version where u see KARR getting into the garage and telling John he wants to change his appearance. John leaves and talks to eddie. Then sees the pacemaker.

ShadowConvoy · Post by **ShadowConvoy** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:52 am

Though I do not have the episode on tape and have not seen it in years can also say that I for a fact remember KARR asking to have his appearance altered. Because when i started researching KR sites for KARR info yesturday [for a model kit I'm building], I kept hearing this same comment about the paint sceme and i couldn't understand why. Now I know. Some of you younger viewers never saw that segment while I clearly remember it. In fact doen't the kid have a buddy of his do the paint because i beleive his girlfreind mentioned that he was once a car thief. I beleive the "buddy" was the guy he used take the stolen cars to back when he was a thief. That part I'm not too sure about, But I am certain about Karr asking to be altered.

Now as far as the yellow scanner being changed by seawater, i'm sure that it is a fan created idea but it works for me. Sun and water bleach crap all the time and the scanner is the weakest part of their chasis [aside form the exhaust pipe]. Voice change? been too long since I've seen both episodes but the there is another simple explaination [even though the sea water one is more convienient]. KARR and KITT both havethe capacity to alter their voice. Perhaps KARR wanted to sound more intimidating since that seems to work well with weak minded humans.

knightimmortal · Post by **knightimmortal** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:49 pm

The paint job is never shown, KARR just asks for his appearance to be changed, and in the next scene, it is changed.

KI

Benjamin Knight · Post by **Benjamin Knight** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:16 pm

Humm... KvK seems to have alot of nitpicks, so to speak. Its like Star Trek, "Enterprise" is rewriting Star Trek history! lol There are lots of sites that try to explain Star Trek nitpicks or as we a call them "inconsitances" they go on for pages, and pages about a one thing. Its cool!

knightimmortal · Post by **knightimmortal** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:06 pm

We have one of our own for Knight Rider. (enter shameless plug) http://www.knightridercollective.com/nitpicks.htm

By the way, Benjamin, I adore you for saying that Enterprise is rewriting Star Trek history. I don't feel so alone in saying it now.

KI

Was the new KARR a Halston drone?

Was the new KARR a Halston drone?

Re: Was the new KARR a Halston drone?

The voice of K.A.R.R.

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