Fact Or Fiction

Supersonic Lorry · Post by **Supersonic Lorry** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:23 am

Hi folks,
Now, I own a car and have done for a long time but in no way, shape or form am I an expert on cars or even in possession of basic knowledge.

I'd like to put a question to you all. K.I.T.T.-fact or fiction. Now, I have enough sense to know that somethings what K.I.T.T. did could never be duplicated in real life. But I'd like to see what people think. Could there ever be a car with a human like intelligence capable of driving itself (if only for short distances)? What about ski mode? I'd be interested to hear what you think is fact and what is definitely fiction.

Supersonic Lorry

Katt · Post by **Katt** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:16 pm

well, anyone can do Ski Mode, you just need a ramp to launch one side of wheels into the air, though the trick would be keeping the car from falling over on it's roof or side. They actually have cars with computer in them, and with certain systems they can talk back to you, so I think in a couple of decades we could have a RL KITT with how advanced computers are getting these days.

CB2001 · Post by **CB2001** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:17 pm

Some time ago, I heard about this scientist and his group working on a car that could drive by itself. Basically, they installed a computer with software into the trunk of the car and installed electromagnetic sensors on the bottom of the car in order for it to sense electromagnets that were installed in the road. They tested it out on a stretch of freeway, a small space wide enough for the car to drive down. It was long ago, but I'm not sure what ever came of the project (I know that it did work, seeing that they even showed the scientist himself reading a newspaper as the car was driving itself down the gap)

SPEEDBREAKER · Post by **SPEEDBREAKER** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:36 pm

Hi there,the driving buy it self can be done.The job I work for,well the parent company Delphi Automotive Systems has developed some thing like it .It takes a video image of the lines of the road and keeps the van in between them.I think it has three hard drives in it. As for that magnet one
that is not really driving buy it self. It may as well be on rails like a train.

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:22 am

A car that drives itself isn't too far away. Just give me a few years, hehe...seriously, though, making a car drive itself isn't too far away at all.

AI is a totally different issue in many respects. However, it would need a body, and a car would serve quite well. I personally don't believe in the full consciousness and self-awareness of a machine, because I believe the human spirit is more than just nerve impulses. Also, I believe that humans can only propogate human-level intelligence through biological reproduction. Attempting to start from scratch and build from the ground up a totally new "living" being is inherintly doomed, in my judgment. Whether you believe in evolution or creation, or some mix (I personally believe strongly in divine, intelligent creation), it took amazing circumstances to create humans, and science is only tipping the iceberg of what really makes humans tick. To believe that we can create something equal to ourselves by logical design without the intelligence and power of God, and without the time intervals required by evolution greatly overrates the abilities of mankind. We can't even get a man to Mars yet, or cure the cold, or get to the very bottom of the sea, but we think we can create true intelligent life? Hoo boy. These scientists really are full of themselves these days.

With regard to most of KITTs other systems...they can be built, and they will be built, eventually;)

DK

Rockatteer · Post by **Rockatteer** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:55 am

Thank god Knight Imortal isn't here anymore!! LOL

Remember how seriously she took AI.

I think many of Kitts functions could be put into a car...oil slicks, smoke screens, ski mode could be done using a hydrolic wheel which lowers from under the car and lifts the car.... (Movie world on the gold coast of australia use this trick in one of their shows)

the problem is the car would have to front seats and no room for anything else as all the verious bits and peices needed for all these features would take up the rest of the car.

My honest opionion for a car driving itself in the way Kitt did is probba;y not in our life time... think about how much information you take in when yoru driving... road, obsticals, surroundings.. things happining up ahead of you..people on the road side... in short there really is a hell of a lot of stuff we take in without even thinking about it when we drive.

The processes required to take in all this information... make sense of it.... and make instent desisions based on all this information are probably already here in the form of super-computers.... but we are a LONG way away from having all that power in somethign small enough to fit into a car.

You also have to ask Why would anyone build a car with all these features?

Self drive I can understand as this could help give vision or physically impaired people more freedom, but as for the rest...hmmmmm don't know.

Rockatteer · Post by **Rockatteer** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:57 am

Are self drive and AI linked? wouldn't the process of driving require an AI of some sort to make descisions about what to do and when to do it?

Supersonic Lorry · Post by **Supersonic Lorry** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:50 am

Some good comments there, folks. I liked Rockateer's thoughts on ski mode. Obviously, any car can do ski mode with the help of a ramp but I always thought it'd be impossible to do instant ski mode like K.I.T.T. did.

I don't think a car should ever replace a driver because despite what some people say, we humans and our brains are far more intelligent to any computer brain. A computer may be able to do complex mathematical sums in seconds but us humans can think, deduce, reason, evaluate etc.

But a self-driving car would be invaluable to physically challenged people as Rockateer pointed out.

Supersonic Lorry-(Definitely an impossibility)

SPEEDBREAKER · Post by **SPEEDBREAKER** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:13 pm

preprogrammed responses an lazer sencers for distance & braking I do not
think are A I.We are way too far behind computer wise to get something to think for it self.What if it did not like us? Would it not talk to us? Or something worse.

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:38 pm

I think you'd need sensors better than lasers. Lasers are very good for very specific measurements, but to create moving 3d computer images for computer guided navigation, you need transmitters and receivers of several different types that can illuminate a wide area (invisibly, if possible). Lasers don't have that ability without a diffusing lense, and if you're going to diffuse a laser, you might as well use some other type of radiant energy. Because different conditions, media (fog, pollen, smoke), and distances favor different wavelengths and waveforms, a self-driving car would ideally utilize infrared, microwave(radar), ultraviolet, ultrasonic, X-ray, as well as regular light imaging capabilities, all fed into a CPU for interpretation to tell the throttle, steering, suspension and brake servos and/or hydraulics exactly what to do. The CPU would need to recognize the difference between cars, people, various surface conditions, various traffic conditions, among other things, and it would have to have wisely crafted instructions on how to deal with those things. In the event that the computer could not deal with the circumstances, it would ask to give control back to the driver. If the driver did not respond, the car would seek to find a safe place on the side of the road, and it would dial 911 or something. This type of system would be best suited at first for interstate travel, rather than in highly congested areas, just to be on the safe side.

DK

rusti_knight · Post by **rusti_knight** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:20 pm

Rockatteer wrote:Thank god Knight Imortal isn't here anymore!! LOL

Remember how seriously she took AI.

*growls* What the hell is wrong with you? KI takes everything she does quite seriously, and that includes her studies, the sites she pays for and upkeeps for us, including Knight Radio, which you all could stand to listen to once in a while. It's only getting better.

Have you forgotten that she still reads this board? Or do you even care? Feelings don't matter to you at all do they? All she ever did was try to explain what it all meant...from her *educated*, mind you, point of view. If you had questions, or thoughts, it would have been the very least you could do to listen to what she had to say withing scoffing at it, since she actually knew what she was talking about.

If you thought that comment was a joke, it was lame. And Neil, for shame! You don't like it when people slam you, why let it happen to others?

Rusti

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:29 pm

I agree, Rusti. That comment was in bad taste, unnecessary, and it raised my blood temperature for a moment, but it has nothing to do with how many people listen to Knight Radio, or the fact that KI pays for her sites. I've personally tried everything I can to get Knight Radio on my computer, but it just won't work for me.

I appreciate and admire you defending her honor, but please don't pull her websites into the matter. They're two totally different issues.

DK

Centaurus17 · Post by **Centaurus17** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:16 am

I've seen just about enough of this. Ridiculous comments like that show just how unappreciative people around here can be. Darknight, i think the websites and Knight Radio have very much to do with this. It shows the amount of commitment and effort that she put into this community, and when people badmouth her like this, it's really anger inducing. I think it's seriously time that people begin to thank those who have done so much instead of being such ingrates.

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:46 am

Listen, before you get on a high horse against me - I didn't badmouth her, and I didn't take up for anyone who did. Now, it's one thing to defend someone, but it's another thing to chastise people because they can't or don't choose to tune into Knight Radio. When people undertake such projects, they have to realize the risks, and the fact that they might not draw as large of an audience as they would like. KI knew the risks, and she doesn't need Rusti here getting on people's cases. The board doesn't need it either.

Rockatteer made a very insensitive statement, and I called it such. Just because some of you are still resentfull that KI no longer posts here doesn't give you the right to take it out on others. She chose to leave, plain and simple.

Whether you find my comments anger inducing or not, this board has been peaceful except for a few sore bellyachers over the last little bit.

It's not about appreciation, or any perceived lack thereof. I appreciate everything KI has done in the KR fandom, but that doesn't mean that she as a person is inseparable from her sites. I sure hope people don't determine my worth by my sites. I think most people would agree on that. The fact is, Rockatteer made a crude attempt at a joke based on the fact that KI did get very passionate over issues like AI. He was making a sort of personal jab, if anything (which I in no way, shape or form support), but Rusti turned it into a larger issue, bringing her sites into the picture. I was just saying that if you're going to defend a friend's honor, then do so, but don't go bringing in other irrelevant topics to use as a scattergun directed at the general KRO population. She has also been chewing at Neil as often as possible lately, finding fault as much as she can, simply because she resents his decision to go without appointed moderators.

She has made the claim that lots of people are afraid to post here since KI is gone, but it looks to me like the board is doing just fine. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think she's been trying to start something to "prove" how the board needed KI as moderator. At any rate, this board doesn't need bitterness of this extent.

DK

Centaurus17 · Post by **Centaurus17** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:12 am

You gotta be kiddin me.... First of all, before you snap at me, go back and read what i wrote. I wasn't referring to you now was I? NO, i was referring to Rockatteer's comments about her. I never stated that your comments were anger inducing, i made a general statement regarding comments made by people badmouthing her, which really tends to tick me off. Maybe because i know of the countless hours that she puts into the work that she does.

It's not about appreciation? It absolutely is about that. It's about people not realizing how much she has put into this community. Rusti brought up Knight Radio and KI's other sites as an example of the fact that she has contributed a HELL of a lot to the community, a lot of time, money and effort, and that due to all that she has done, she deserves a whole lot more respect than has been given. So don't give me any BS about people determining her worth just by her websites.

Regarding Knight Radio....I really don't care whether it works on your pc or not. Did the project have it's risk? Yea, i'm sure she knows the risks of this,but when people tend not to appreciate the risk that a person takes, but rather just criticize and criticize, it makes those who are genuinely interested in it to wonder if it was worth it at all.

You think that Rusti's out to prove how the board needs KI, you can believe that all you want. The truth is, she doesnt even need to do that, garbage like this proves it by itself. You know what, it doesn't make a difference anymore. KI is gone, she's not here, but that doesn't give people the right to step on her reputation, and make comments like that every time her name is mentioned over here. It's respect and honor, and if any one person deserves it, it's her.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:25 am

MOVING BACK ON-TOPIC...

Well, a somewhat-related topic at least. On The Osbournes this week (yeah, I watch it) Ozzy was in a new BMW that had voice recognition control. It was programmed to recognize anyone's voice, but of course it couldn't understand Ozzy. Ozzy kept trying to say "Radio on" and the car would try to dial the phone. Then Ozzy would start yelling "F*** Off" and the car would reply "pardon me?" I really think Ozzy thought he was arguing with the car.

We will have acheived true A.I. the day a computer can understand what Ozzy is saying. And then maybe the computer can translate it for us mere humans.

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:30 am

First, if you weren't talking to me, why was my name the only one mentioned in your post? Immediately following my post, you say, "I've seen just about enough of this. Ridiculous comments like that show just how unappreciative people around here can be." then immediately following that, you address me by name. The original offender isn't mentioned by name at all. I'm not a mind reader. Clearly, at least 75% of your post was intended toward me.

We can appreciate KI all day and all night, and that's fine and dandy, but Rockatteer was jabbing at her character, not her contributions, therefore the relevant issue worth defending is her character. He didn't attack her sites, therefore her sites don't need a champion. Everyone knows how much she has done for the community. That has never been in question.

About Knight Radio, that was clearly addressed to Rusti, since she decided to get on the case of everyone here for not tuning in enough.

I agree with both you and Rusti that people shouldn't step on KI's reputation, but I wasn't doing that, Rockatteer was. If your beef was with him, you should have addressed him.

I do wish that you two wouldn't try to reignite a situation that has already been settled, and that you also wouldn't use profanity just because you're upset. There are many young members here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, Mike, that's hilarious!

DK

Centaurus17 · Post by **Centaurus17** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:55 am

I already told you once to go back and read my post, this time, please listen to it. I stated your name before the quote that pertained to YOU. The entire previous discussion was regarding Rockatteer's comments, and if you go back and actually read what i wrote, i stated that "I think it's seriously time that people begin to thank those who have done so much instead of being such ingrates." If i was pertaining that to you, i would you have put "you" instead of "people", so don't make things about you when they aren't.

Yea Rockatteer took a shot at her character, and her character directly relates to her contributions. As someone who knows her, i can tell you that her contributions express her character in a great way, and what Rusti was trying to do was bring up the fact of what she has done to deserve respect, something that she still doesn't receive.

Rusti just suggested that people tune into KRadio. She told people that the station was getting better and better, which it is. You are the one who created the fight out of thin air that she was getting on their cases, telling them they HAD to tune in. Once again, it would really help if you go back, and READ what was previously written.

If i had used profanity, the filter would have blocked it out. If there's an issue regarding censorship, have Neil look into it, you're not the moderator. This situation is far from settled DK... Oh, and for the record, I'm younger then you are, so don't tell me about the young members here.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:03 am

I caught a quick blurb on CNN about an upcoming race sponsored by General Motors... It was something like a 30 mile course to be raced by driverless cars. I assume it was off public roads. The cars could use GPS or any other technology as long as they acted independantly without remote control.

I haven't been able to find any other info on the race, but when it happens it should really give us a good idea regarding what the current state-of-the-art is when it comes to self-driving vehicles.

Mike

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:20 am

You're younger than me, all right, and it's showing. You have to be careful how you say things on here. If you have a problem with someone, address them by name, please, rather than inference. That way you avoid a lot of problems.

Sure, character relates to contributions, but her contributions weren't in question. Character relates to a whole lot of facets of a person, but we can't discuss them all. We have to stick to the main issue. It wouldn't matter if KI had never made any web site, she didn't deserve that remark, period. I'd like to think that any member would have the same type of sympathy after such a comment, regardless of whether or not he or she had contributed anything at all. Rockatteer's remark was very wrong, and I'd guess that he feels pretty bad about it. If he does, I hope he says so.

It was obvious that Rusti was scolding the entire KRO community for not tuning in enough to Knight Radio. I don't know how you missed seeing that, except perhaps by not looking.

So anyway, because we have a filter, you're just going to find the closest thing to outright profanity that you can, and put it all in CAPS, and expect that to be ok? I've something to tell you. Profanity isn't limited to words like d*mn, f*ck, and the like, even though the filter focuses on them. Any word can be substituted. The meaning behind the word makes it profane or not. Words without meanings are just symbols and sounds.

By the way, you're the one who earlier said that it didn't matter - that she was gone, and it couldn't be changed. So what are you trying to do now by proclaiming that it's "far from settled?" Why are you threatening the peace of the community? Either you're fighting to get KI reinstated, or you're fighting for some personal vengeance or revenge, or you're fighting just for the sake of fighting. In any case, you'd be best advised to drop it.

Oh...by the way, I'm not the only moderator, but I am A moderator, because this is a self-moderated board now. Neil is the cheif moderator, and administrator, but the day to day care of the board is in the board members' hands. If things get too far out of hand, Neil will take care of it.

DK

P.S. Again, if you don't want people to think they're being attacked, then don't make it look that way.

_____________________________________________________________

Mike, I heard about that race, too. From what I gather, the winning design will be mass-produced for military use. The military has, of course, long been interested in vehicles that could avoid obstacles and penetrate deep into enemy territory without risking soldiers' lives.

Post by **Michael Pajaro** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:31 am

Darknight wrote:Mike, I heard about that race, too. From what I gather, the winning design will be mass-produced for military use. The military has, of course, long been interested in vehicles that could avoid obstacles and penetrate deep into enemy territory without risking soldiers' lives.

This sounds like a real-life cross between Knight Rider and Airwolf... The military develops a super-high-tech machine for war, but it gets stolen to be used for more "local" crimefighting.

Mike

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:33 am

Well, I think it was meant primarily for recon, but it could also be mounted with weapons for a sniper mission, or whatever else they would want, I reckon.

DK

knightimmortal · Post by **knightimmortal** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:15 am

Gee, I wonder why I left this place. (I am back once again just to assure that my rep at least gets defended, without having blatent crap thrown in it's direction. Oh, sue me, I cursed according to the great world of Darknight.)

For one: Rocketeer: You might want to make sure that the person you are making an insensitive quote about isn't still watching the board. I do such to assure that my rep isn't being slandered behind my back. *chuckle* Love how this happens. If it were your job, and your educational background, you would be just as equally as passionate, but it is easier to 'quip' about people behind their back, isn't it?

Darknight wrote:You're younger than me, all right, and it's showing. You have to be careful how you say things on here. If you have a problem with someone, address them by name, please, rather than inference. That way you avoid a lot of problems.

Darknight, that is uncalled for. And you have always had a problem with this. Most people can accept the fact that when they are called by name, then it is a reference to them, and whatever else is said, is in reference to it. Of course, the only reason why you would take offense is if you felt that you were guilty of such. (You taught me that.)

Sure, character relates to contributions, but her contributions weren't in question. Character relates to a whole lot of facets of a person, but we can't discuss them all. We have to stick to the main issue. It wouldn't matter if KI had never made any web site, she didn't deserve that remark, period. I'd like to think that any member would have the same type of sympathy after such a comment, regardless of whether or not he or she had contributed anything at all. Rockatteer's remark was very wrong, and I'd guess that he feels pretty bad about it. If he does, I hope he says so.

Let me remind you. This is online. This is the internet. The only thing people see is what you put out there. Not what you dictate is how it should be. My contributions were in fact, in the crosshairs, because it was my contributions that caused the comment in the first place. My contributions to this board when it came around to straightening out fact from fiction when it came to AI. Mike got the same kind of scorn when he did it as well, I just happen to be easier now that I am out of the crosshairs. I do believe that I am grandly different, and others accept that. Not every member has dedicated (as Rusti and others have pointed out) as much and more to this community as I, and a few others have. Yes, nobody deserved that remark. But it wouldn't have been made for anybody else, either.

It was obvious that Rusti was scolding the entire KRO community for not tuning in enough to Knight Radio. I don't know how you missed seeing that, except perhaps by not looking.

Maybe because it wasn't there, and only apparent to your rather creative imagination when it comes to these situations. Here are Rusti's exact words.
KI takes everything she does quite seriously, and that includes her studies, the sites she pays for and upkeeps for us, including Knight Radio, which you all could stand to listen to once in a while. It's only getting better.

If she were demanding that people listened to Knight Radio, she wouldn't have minced words. Anybody who has seen her would know this. For anybody who wasn't creating their own interpretation and forcing on others, they see the fact that she was just mentioning it as a sideline to the fact of what I have done for this community. Which leads to my character. Which is what was being picked on.

So anyway, because we have a filter, you're just going to find the closest thing to outright profanity that you can, and put it all in CAPS, and expect that to be ok? I've something to tell you. Profanity isn't limited to words like d*mn, f*ck, and the like, even though the filter focuses on them. Any word can be substituted. The meaning behind the word makes it profane or not. Words without meanings are just symbols and sounds.

Anything to try to take away the focus of the subject again, eh? Anything to try to re-interpret it for the public view? Would you have had a kitten over HECK? It was a word for emphasis, not as a curse. I do believe that the whole world would be a whole lot more content without you giving them your form of language lessons. Not only is it highly pompous, it is arrogant, and just uncalled for.

By the way, you're the one who earlier said that it didn't matter - that she was gone, and it couldn't be changed. So what are you trying to do now by proclaiming that it's "far from settled?" Why are you threatening the peace of the community? Either you're fighting to get KI reinstated, or you're fighting for some personal vengeance or revenge, or you're fighting just for the sake of fighting. In any case, you'd be best advised to drop it.

Darknight, one has to wonder why YOU (ooooh, me bad, me used caps) are the one who is threatening the peace of the community. For one, the peace of the community has been far from really being there, though Neil and I are trying to work on it from two vantage points now. You didn't jump in about my facet of things until somebody else brought it up, and suddenly, you are the grand crusader again. All you had to do was ignore it, and it most likely would have gone away. Rather interestingly, that is how it has always been. I'll tell you the truth. I don't want the job back here on KRO. Nobody is fighting to get me reinstated anymore, because they have found out that the real me away from here is a whole lot calmer person when I am not being stretched in twenty directions in moderation. People also don't need to be accused of what you are accusing them of, for the simple reason that if you just dropped it and walked away, it would stop. I came back to deliver these words, because maybe, just maybe everybody should learn from them, especially when they have a reputation as you do. And as I do, and am trying to rewrite, if people would just give me one bloody chance. Nobody is threatening anybody.

Oh...by the way, I'm not the only moderator, but I am A moderator, because this is a self-moderated board now. Neil is the cheif moderator, and administrator, but the day to day care of the board is in the board members' hands. If things get too far out of hand, Neil will take care of it.

Uh, I think that you need to re-read this whole concept. Neil said that you can moderate yourselves. That does not give you license to moderate over others like a self-appointed dictator. You are NOT A moderator. You moderate yourself from flying off the handle and starting fights. The day to day care of the board is NOT in the board member's hands, and it really shouldn't be on the basis of Neil having to step in to take care of it. That is defeating the whole concept of self-moderation. Neil shouldn't have to clean up messes that are caused by the few who decide that they have the power. He took those away. The concept of self-moderation is to watch YOURSELF and not dictate to others.

Take a look at what Mike has been doing, before you get back in your saddle, Darknight. Mike has been trying to help, by changing the subject, trying to get it back on topic, and by trying to push this subject down so that it might be out of sight, out of mind, to try to stop it. That is self-moderation. He is not forcing anything on anybody, he is just trying to help the board. I will post in at least one other topic before I leave here, because I am not out to harm this board. It is up to all of you to do that, not fuel the fire by getting the last word in, because you have to be right, Darknight. All appointing yourself as a moderator and parading around to tell others what to do is going to cause, is more heartache.

DK

P.S. Again, if you don't want people to think they're being attacked, then don't make it look that way.

If you think you are being attacked, then don't attack back. And read carefully without diverting the concept, you might find that there is no attack at all. And, not to mention, spreading the attack out to divert attention from the original concept only makes the problem worse. Rusti and Centaurus17 were just trying to stand up, presenting the best argument for their stance, and didn't need to be judged by you. Sometimes, the best thing to do in these situations is to turn away, and let Neil be able to handle it, if he so chooses. Self-moderate yourself a bit, Corby, and try to restrain yourself.

I have only done this, because I don't appreciate seeing anybody get run over, and basically, it's my rep that has been drug through the mud here. If anybody looks like they are trying to start a war here, then it is up to Neil to do something about it, because to be honest, anybody else is just going to get a battle started. I am sure that I am going to get cut for this, but basically, since I am the focus of this problem, I thought that I should have a word in too, a word that I can only hope will keep this from accelerating. It will probably do the opposite if past patterns repeat themselves. It was this kind of thing that made me leave. Not all the problems have been solved, and no matter how many times people try to fool themselves into thinking they have, they are covering the problem and making it fester. (this refers to the problem that isn't over yet.) But at this point, pithy comments, and attacking every word that comes up about those who still have the heart to defend me is not the way to go. Just let it go. Please. Close the pain, and stop justifying my reasons for leaving in the first place.

Oh, and Mike, an AI that could decipher Ozzy? That isn't an AI, that is a miracle.

As for what is Fact from Fiction? Almost everything KITT was can be fact, as soon as the science can catch up to it.

KI

Post by **neps** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:17 am

Yes, a direct attack at someone who isn't here to defend themselves (for what ever reason that may be) is uncalled for. It shouldn't have to matter what the person has done for the community, because we all should be treated fairly and not personally and directly attacked.

The concept of self moderation is that people hold enough restraint to keep a situation from going nuclear. If a situation does rear its head, we should work to get it back on topic, and point out suggestively, not absolutely, what they did incorrectly. It does not give anyone on this board permission to tell others what to do.

For instance, this thread here has gone way off topic, but understandably so. Lets make one more attempt to bring it back on topic, otherwise the thread will be shut down. This is what happens when self moderation fails.

Ah, that Ozzy... If anyone was in more need of a brain transplant... It was such a great show the first season, but now they are too big, it doesn't seem like the kids have any reality anymore, only the parents.

And back to the original topic, all things that KITT was will be possible. It depends how long you've got though, some say years, some say decades. As you can see from searching the boards, the key part of this debate, AI, is often a very heated debate. But this shouldn't be a platform for whether we think AI is wrong, or what we think AI is. It should simply acknowledge that yes, someday this will be possible.

Darknight · Post by **Darknight** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:12 pm

Well, either you're here or you're not. In any case, I didn't attack you, and you shouldn't come to turn a disagreement into a battle, then blame it on me. I didn't say anything bad about you. I don't deserve you coming back here just to jab at me once more. I defended you. No, I wasn't the first to jump in, but that's because I was going to ignore it. People don't seem to like me defending people very much. They have this tendency to say I'm starting something. Of course, you've never accused me of that, right?

Look, my conscience wasn't the reason I felt attacked as I did, Centaurus's statement was. Only the first two (the shortest ones) of the five sentences had any sort of implication toward rockatteer. The last three were directed to either me personally, or "people," whatever that meant. If "people" wasn't directed at me, then it must have been the whole board.

Now, posts here on the board are one thing, but websites are another. Rockatteer was jabbing at your posting style, not your websites. Yes, we all love and admire what you've done with your sites, but how many times must we say that before you're satisfied? This wasn't about your sites. My point all along was that it was about defending your personal honor, and I would do that for anyone. Neil draws more heat than just about anyone, and he has very arguably contributed the most to the online KR fandom than anyone. How many people defend his honor when others attack him? Few, very few. If the defense of someone depends upon what they've given in terms of posts and sites, that's a pretty broken system. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they've made one post or 10,000, and whether they've ever built a web site or not.

I can't help the reputation you built for yourself with regard to taking things so seriously. It is true that you were rather uptight about certain issues at times, but that comment shouldn't have been made about anybody at all, period. We agree.

Rusti wasn't demanding that more people listen to Knight Radio, but she was using an emotionally charged situation in an attempt to drum up support, and her tone was rather terse, as well.

About the profanity...no, I don't appreciate it in any form. That includes what you have used here in times past as well. Centaurus was being very smart alecky about what defines profanity, so I had every right to explain to him what exactly it is. I don't give "language lessons," but if someone is going to take me to task on my own turf, I will give them the straight of it.

Now, absolute self-moderation works great if everyone abides by it, but obviously, rockatteer did not. In this case, it was rusti who acted first as a moderator. Self-moderation of an entire community has to work by members taking care of each other. I praise her effort for sticking up for you, but she could have easily done so without bringing in all the other stuff about your websites. There is more to you than your websites, you know.

But now, you're setting Mike up as the model member? It was Mike that you couldn't wait to see out of a moderating position. You've never liked anything that he has done, and I don't buy it for a second that you mean what you just said.

I've been very quiet, going about my business as calmly as possible, but rusti has been planting little seeds of discord here and there lately, and that's more threatening to the peace of the board than anything.

You can defend Centaurus any way you like, but how do you justify statements like "it's far from settled DK?" Say what you will, but that clearly reeks of a determination to cause further unrest in the community.

I am not a troublemaker, and you coming back to spend 90% of your post bashing me, 5% defending rusti and centaurus, and just 5% to defend yourself against rockatteer's original jab at you prove that you just can't keep yourself from taking shots at me whenever possible. You just can't stand to see me talking to people in other threads peacefully. You have to draw me into a fight to "expose" how bad I am. I don't need that. Find something better to do.

DK

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