Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

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Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Sun May 01, 2016 4:49 pm

Just the other day at work, I was shutting down my netbook and realized a small connection to Kitt. Software shutdown.

Sure. These days, a whole lot of tech just goes to sleep or 'shuts down' internally. We use some kind of interface or press a button to safely shut down all these electronics. But, think about how things were, back in 1982/3/4. Practically everything was hard wired. Turning off a PC meant throwing a hard switch. Back then, when you turned something off, you literally discontinued all flow of electricity. Why, it's possible that there was something that internally went to sleep in some mainframe on a college campus. But, as far as I know, Kitt was the first electronic machine that was able to 'sleep' or shut down via commands...vocal commands, at that.

I bet, back in the day when Michael had to tell Kitt to 'shut down' for the sake of avoiding a far more dangerous plot situation, barely anyone even questioned the notion of the car internally deactivating itself without the need of throwing physical switches. It just felt natural...despite the notion that barely...if anything at all, shut down like thiat in those days. (I don't know...maybe some remote control TV's had remote on/off. Or was that a newer function? Maybe I should ask Siri?)

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by RafaelLOJ » Fri May 06, 2016 6:47 am

Maybe most here remember "It's now safe to turn off your computer" screens... But I bet a lot of the public doesn't (or never seen it)... wow I'm getting old :)

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Sat May 07, 2016 2:44 am

"Now it's safe to turn off your computer."

Hmmm...was that a finishing screen of Windows 95, by chance? I vaguely remember something like that. But, I went from Windows 3.11 to Windows 98. What I can't recall is if the 98 machine had a physical switch. The 3.11 most certainly did and exited to the DOS prompt. I do remember that, because I ran an IRC bot, back then. And Windows would grow so unstable that everything but the chat programs would crash. So closing out mIRC would go right to DOS without the Win shut down command. But, I'm thinking that even Win 3.0 was post 1990.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by KITTfan » Sat May 07, 2016 8:29 am

I still have one desktop PC with Windows 98 Second Edition and it shuts down or goes to sleep mode like computers still do today, from Start -menu. Currently have Windows 10 in my laptop, updated from 8.1 a week ago.

It indeed felt completely natural that KITT could shut itself off by voice command, without physical switch even when there was nothing like that available in real world at the time.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Mon May 09, 2016 4:19 am

It is interesting to go and revisit those early '80s shows that have some remote function around computers. Like with Airwolf. There's this one bit from a single episode where it's mentioned that the heli's computer has a rather advanced feature; the ability to record it's operating memory. Not some kind of text data sheet, but actual audio/video recordings of the heli's flight time. This was an era where A/V recording was all magnetic media and laser disc based. Very limited recording time. But, the episode was clearly representing something more like YouTube with an undefined, but intentionally huge amount of memory created for full frame recordings. It went so far as to state that the pilot/co-pilot had no idea the computer had such a function. So, forward thinking of great big storage mediums that required very little space.

Another example comes from The Greatest American Hero. Sure. It's US federal government computing power that is represented in one scene. But, via two computers, the show's star and co-star have a live chat with full visual and audio capacities. While there are older examples of video chat in science fiction, this scene hits it really on the dot for today's streaming video chats. (And...Kitt had this, too. Video conferencing with Devon on a regular basis.)

Yet another show from the late 70s is a British sci-fi called Space: 1999. Not only did they have audio/visual conversation technologies, but it was contained in a kind of hand held unit that could super loosely be a forefather to a smartphone. Such devices not only made calls, but could remotely operate doors/locks, monitor vital stats, interact with the main frame computer and probably do other things the show only reserved for possible plots.

In our real world...we're still waiting for those dash board ATM's, though. ;P (But, at least we have remote engine start tech. Even to the point of voice recognition.)

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by RafaelLOJ » Mon May 09, 2016 10:28 am

Don't remember exactly which OS asked that, but I may have been a combination of mother boards / power supplies that could do that, so if detected, then it would shut itself off, or do it itself...

Laser disc, yikes... I loved those :)

Commodore Amiga, anyone ?
I started with TRS-80's and a cassette drive, Tandy Color Computer, Apple II's, personally had an Apple IIc, analog modems, then the Amiga, then into IBM compatibles.... For me the Amiga was the LEAP into modern computer, with great color pallet, animation, stereo sound, multitasking, etc... I loved that computer too...

Been working on my Kitt PC, small 6.5 x 6.5 Asus motherboard, i5 Processor, 8GB Ram, 256GB SSD, it's so fast and small...
Never thought (as a kid) I'd see self driving cars in my life time... It is all pretty amazing...

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Mon May 09, 2016 5:06 pm

A few weeks ago, I was making a reply that mentioned the history of some tech. And was rather surprised on how old the Laser Disc truly was...

---
Optical video recording technology, using a transparent disc, was invented by David Paul Gregg and James Russell in 1958 (and patented in 1961 and 1990). The Gregg patents were purchased by MCA in 1968. By 1969, Philips had developed a videodisc in reflective mode, which has advantages over the transparent mode.
---

...according to a Google fact check. So I added it to the Airwolf example.

And, yes. Amiga's were amazing machines. The high end model's famous mark was as the effects machine for that SeaQuest DSV show on NBC. Kind of sad that ole Commodore Computers couldn't have remained a competitor in today's computing choices. After all, why just settle for two CPU's when we could have had a hundred primary and a thousand secondary chips on board that no amount of multi-tasking could ever slow down. ;P

Not just self driving cars. Tons of science fiction is becoming fact, these days. Why, just the other week, I was reading up on this guy that just got a bionic arm. Was saying he could actually feel what the faux hand was holding and able in insure that he wasn't gripping too tight. Another kid has just got his body back after a life threatening injury wrecked his spinal chord. Instead of being in the same boat as Stephen Hawking, he was able to play Guitar Hero and walk on a tread mill instead of blowing into a tube to tell his chair to move in some direction. Plans for a colony on Mars is going strong. Drones are now flying about in the air. Medical robots may be around the corner. 3D printers promise to become like the 1.0 version of the replicator. So much more. Oh...even those Superman memory crystals may be coming soon to the computers of all our tomorrows.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by KITTfan » Tue May 10, 2016 9:01 am

Still have my Amiga 500 in working condition :) It was the talking computer of the 80's ;)
Here's a KITT drawing I once made with Amiga DeluxePaint 3:
Image

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Tue May 10, 2016 3:59 pm

Looks amazing.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by tharpdevenport » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:42 pm

Speaking of two-way communication, there's another forward thinking KR example:

Michael could communicate with full color and video wirelessly in K.I.T.T. with Devon.

People thought it was impressive the Batmobile has a phone in it.



Then of course we have a laser mounted on K.I.T.T. in one or two episodes for battle. The millitary today still not only doesn't have vessels, land and sea, fully equiped with laser weapons, but they still don't seem to have the power that K.I.T.T. demonstrated.


And of course the very idea of K.I.T.T.'s intelligence is not only forward thinking, it's still unmatched. Just this year fancy A.I. programs online -- almost 30 years later -- are dumb as a doorknob, from one saying it will collect human being and put them in it's "people zoo" (for our protection, of course), and another from Microsoft that went by what people were saying on Twitter (the online gutter of society in general) and immediately became a racist and disgusting. Even the most intelligent ones still don't hold a candle to K.I.T.T.


And damnit -- my car still doesn't turbo boost.
And when things appeared to get better, they got worse, and everyday was a day to cry.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:32 am

You can put more data and more RAM into the equation. But, access to knowledge doesn't equal intelligence.

Reminds me of a video I recently saw. Someone built one of those 'intelligence chat bots' into a Commodore 64. It didn't take too many lines of conversation to see the thin veil of trickery that was in use. And even with programming like Siri for the phones, it's just a cleaver use of word processing and access to Google's vast database of entries and internet search bots. But, who knows. We may be just on the verge of finding true AI. After all, a machine was just mastering the game of Go against that game's world master. I still say that true Artificial Intelligence may be met when the computer can ask 'Why it is doing things' without needing a subroutine to make it state the question with. You know...like the way that 'Evil Kitt' argued with Michael's logic to favor another course of action in Killer K.I.T.T. (Or...perhaps he was more like 'Annoyed Kitt' at that stage of the viral attack.) However, just a few months ago, all these leaders in the field of deep thinking had signed to a declaration of warning that computers were just years away from truly obtaining real thought. So, who really knows. It might just be a matter of how the program works to achieve the goal of "thinking". And not so much on how the program uses tricks to create an illusion of trying to hold a conversation. Personally, I've always held the notion that if we'd see true AI emerge, it would be from the need for deep space travel. Because those deep space probes are very expensive. Way too expensive to be lost over a simple error of not translating meters to feet. Because...it would be far more useful to have a distant machine that thought for itself out there over waiting for instructions that were hours away in the transmissions.

As for Hollywood Skype of the '80s...it was popping up in a few other, select venues of entertainment, too. Right off hand, I can note The Greatest American Hero for using government computers to host real time audio/video for a conversation in one scene. Plus, Space: 1999 had their characters carrying around a super early concept of a SmartPhone that placed real time audio and video communications. (Black and white screens. But, these props had to run real tube monitors and work with transmission feeds. Very impressive for the day. (If it really was a green screen trick, it never looked like it.)) I know the notion popped up in other spots, too. But...still qualifies as forward thinking.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by tharpdevenport » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:45 am

Artificial intelligence has to start somewhere. I'm sure at some point an early version of K.I.T.T. was rather equal to today's Siri.

Now you can buy vehicles with automatic trunks that open and close by themselves, but it was revolutionary in KR.



You know, that reminds me: all that talk from Apple (or was if Microsoft?) about the revolutionary touch screens and how you can drag with your fingers, meanwhile, cut to an episode of "FX: The Series", and there's Angie touching the work station screen and dragging an icon, circa 1996/1997.
And when things appeared to get better, they got worse, and everyday was a day to cry.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:38 pm

Touch screens really do just seem to make sense. And, when it comes to the movies, I'm sure that they all get the inside notions on what 'tomorrow's' tech could be. (And it sure seems like many have stated 'no Windows' and something more akin to a hybrid icon interface and DOS-like simplicity of the look.) I even noted that Space: 1999 gave rise to the touch screen. Granted, it was just for one moment in a (their) future Earthen society. But, the illusion of touching a screen to make things happen was presented. And that was from the '70s.

Some years ago, I made mention of some '70s movie that could have held the origins to Kitt's AI. (I don't even remotely remember the movie's name.) And here is several reasons why I would bind the two. 1) The prototype AI program was being created by a branch of the US military in the '70s. 2) It was vocally interactive and proved far more intelligent then just some interface. 3) Wilton Knight was dying and pushing gobs of money into creating Karr. So, he didn't have a whole lot of time left and with a bottomless wallet, probably would have snatched up such a highly promising piece of software for his dream car. 4) It has been stated that KITT was Bonnie's work. However, Kitt was clearly a redesign from Karr with Bonnie's updates. So, theoretically, she worked with the tools given her...which would have included the base program for Kitt to build a personality with. (One that included saving life over just itself and having a fear of flight.) 5) Developing such a robust AI in the 70s & 80s would have required quite a lot of resources and funding. So it just makes sense for the AI base to be government funded, then have wound up in private hands whom had lots of power to find out about such projects.

So, I don't disagree with you in the slightest that stuff like Siri is a baby's step towards tomorrow's Skynet. (Or a far more friendlier AI...we can hope.)

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by tharpdevenport » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:09 am

You know, interesting tidbit, since we've talking touch screens.

Years ago somebody posted a video on youtube where they snuck into the set of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" back when it was still on the air and filmed things before a security guard showed up and the video ended (I guess the guy had to run). There were two interesting thigns about the set I didn't know:

1. That little computer box in the middle of the curved window in Engineering -- it moves along the end of the curve. I can't recall that ever being done on screen.

2. A number of the computer stations, likes the ones Data and Wesley sat at on the Bridge -- work. You can actually press the buttons (and while I didn't see it on this video, some do make noises like on screen, as I recall from another unrelated video). There's even a tiny bit of interaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjffpMV3Q30
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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:10 am

I do remember hearing about ST: TNG's truly functional touch screens. Which actually does make sense. Because technologies don't just happen, overnight. First, someone must dream them up. Then, really smart people have to figure out how to bring them into reality. From there, it almost seems like a combination of publicity stunts, meeting the right people for promoting and funding the tech and finding the right ways to introduce the tech to the world. Historically, most tech takes years to truly emerge. (I was shocked to see how long the world actually had the Laser Disc for.) And now, upper class vending machines use them. (Not to mention a half useless laptop that won't even accept upgrades from Microsoft...which includes that upgrade to Windows 10. I should alter it to Linux and Wine.)

Case in point. One of the buzz words of emerging technology is about the 3-D printer. It's kind of the new toy for science and creation of physical things. Alas, many years ago, it was a curiosity for a prop made in that Jurassic Park movie. And, even Knight Rider soft of/kind of had the general notion hinted at. It was that magic pop up door prop on Kitt's dash that just kind of appeared. While a really easy bit of Hollywood magic, it did represent the ability to make three dimensional things happen. Like the time when Michael needed official paperwork & a laminated badge. Or when an item was uncovered after years of being in the sea and needed cleaning. They didn't exactly know what to call it. But, with just a couple clues, it could so easily have been named as a printer of three dimensional objects.

Another forward thinking tech found in Knight Rider was the invention of self operating black out windows. I'm not sure if the car really had the stuff or was Hollywood magic, but the stuff does exist. Nor am I sure if it ever found a place, outside of the movies for use in glass rooms that could create privacy. But, it seems like it utilizes a crude form of LCD that just forms one solid zone of black when charged or becomes transparent when the current is turned off.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by tharpdevenport » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:23 pm

Oh, yeah -- 3D printers have been around for a few years now, but it's only until recently the cost has come down enough for more people to get one and use it.

But it's days are numbered. Right now it's an achievement of free market capitalism, but I predict in probably about ten years, the government will regulate it to death, driving up the cost and make people be disinterested.

Right now you can print out anything you have a design for (self-created or somebody's else's): spare parts of equipment, ships and action figures to films and TV series, goods that are banned for sale or ownership in the U.S., and even a functioning gun.

But that won't do. It's only a matter of time before Hollywood lobbies Congression to regulate it. It's only a matter of time before Federal and even seperate state laws regulate it so you can't make something like a gun (or other weapons). It's only a matter of time before some despotic angency in the government complains it's helping to pollute, and wanted it heavily regulated/taxed. Enjoy it while you can, they'll screw that up like they're in the process of screwing up the internet right now.



You know, another forward-thinking idea: closed-circuit TV cameras, to see around you or even zoom in. Now you have cameras on cars to see you backing uu or if you are pulling foward too close to the wall.


And we may be on the cusp of another: I was sure I had heard something about it before, but self-repairing tires may not be that far off now.


And another, but this is a looser comparrison: K.I.T.T. had a "Silent Mode". For a few years now (I'm not sure how long), some of these newer cars, ones with hybrid systems are pure non-gasoline sourced, are so quiet you can't hear them, so to assure dirvers they have speakrs that play out fake engine sounds so it sounds like the car has an engine going.
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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:50 pm

It is an interesting idea to consider. For I can see the 3-D printer becoming super common if the notion can be pushed upon the public, correctly...and quickly. After all, it has the potential to become the Star Trek replicator, version 1.0. Last I even heard, (and this is probably outdated) there were efforts on making electrically conductive traces and food with the things. (Oh yea...the other week, I saw someone printed a 3D pizza. Someone else printed clothing. And yet another person printed up a prosthetic arm.) If someone with a grasp over convenience shopping, say Amazon, were to provide an entire line of ultra cheap things that could go with specialized 3-D printers that utilized Amazon ordering apps, such a thing could spark a whole new way to life in general. Want dinner for four and only pay several dollars? Go to your Amazon kitchen printer and order a super sized pizza via the interface. Minutes later, a flying drone drops off a box with a bunch of tubes. When ordering, the blueprints are pre-installed. Once the tubes arrive, the screen shows which ports to place the tubes into. Press 'GO' and an hour or two later, dinner's ready. Another printer from Amazon can handle various trinkets and electronics. Same thing about super low pricing with drone delivery of the base line raw materials applies.

However, it is very much a race towards which side wins. If the powers that be do get to have total regulation power, then we may never have anything even remotely like a replicator at home. After all, if you can build a massive television for your whole wall for...say, $49 via a printer or $1199 from a physical store, which would you most likely choose? So, if these printers can make all your bric-a-brac, your electronics, your food and maybe even your Kitt car...at unbelievably low prices...why would you ever go shopping? These things could wreck havoc upon the whole world's economy. (Not to mention how easy it would be to hack the things to browse the Dark Web in order to obtain the blueprints to a whole arsenal. A whole list of countries would instantly be banning printers at that one. It's a debatable issue if allowing all Americans the right to printed guns would make for a safer world or not.) I pretty much believe that should the 3-D printers become common, my job is totally lost. (And there may not be too many jobs left. American industry can't hope to compete with overseas lower wages and even it's commercialism is showing early signs of failure. After all, so many 'top of the line' malls are raising the white flag.)

Then again, maybe the Republic of China needs some competition in the field of producing goods for next to nothing. The future is what we all make of it. And since most want the best for the lowest price...

Guess that's another Knight Rider bit of forward thinking. Drones!

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by tharpdevenport » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:35 am

Hollywood didn't even trust us with VCRs, LOL. They thought it would be the end of them.

It's a debatable issue if allowing all Americans the right to printed guns would make for a safer world or not.


It's really not, plus the issue isn't safety for having guns at all or the safety of the world -- that's a non sequitur. Yes, that's a use and a prominent one, but that's not the measure. Further more your wording suggests Americans need permission from the government to print something out; today it might be guns, tomorrow it might be something else if we seek their approval first.

There are millions of gun owners in America, and amongst those there are millions who own ten or more guns, yet very few law abiding gun owners actually commit the gun-related crimes; there simply aren't millions of shootings every year from them. Three times as many people by the F.B.I.'s owns statistics, are killed with bats, knives, fists, and blunt objects than guns each year, yet there is no comprehensive fist laws being bandied about. "Knife reform" isn't escaping the lips of any despotic Congressman.

Between six and eight percent of gun-related crimes are committed by people who legally own guns. And amongst those are domestic violence ones, violence between family members, crimes of passion, and people who are insane. As of 2011, that's over 800 a year from people who legally own guns.

The real issues are how do we assure those who make the guns have proper training? How do we assure those with evil intent don't make them? Do those who make them have to be forced by law to do a background check and register? Will the printers be regulated or printing of guns banned and even blocked by the software? Are the companies who sell the 3-D printers liable if somebody kills another person with a printed gun (or any other printed-out object for that matter)?



You're right about drones, but not just a drone, there was an episode with a flying drone with explosives.

Further more, let's look at K.I.T.T. in a bigger picture: overall. He's used (though not necessarily designed for) protecting people as some kind of law enforcement alternative. Cop cars back then had lights, CB senders, other kinds of mediocre tech' from depending on the counties. K.I.T.T. as a whole is forward thinking, in that regard. The idea, that is. I certainly don't want cop cars that peer into buildings, jump over other vehicles, shoot lasers, so forth.
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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:08 pm

Well, Americans do need permission to buy a gun. It's a short waiting period that allows for a background check to insure the customer is properly fit, mentally, for the responsibilities of owning and handling the weapon. And in that is where the 3D printer can totally destroy all means of safety control. A properly designed unit should only be able to shop from a safe virtual store, so to speak. One where a child can't just obtain Mommy's credit card and place 'GUN' into the virtual shopping cart. However, once these printers hit hard with the mainstream, you are going to have the 'name brand' version (Like the Amazon shop models with their packaged kit tubes of raw material) and then the China knock-offs that go to who-knows-where. (And need mail delivery for the materials.) Plus the 'jail broken' models will seep in that can probably browse darn near anywhere. (Oh...shopping lists for stuff to buy at the grocers...or something like web site warehouses.) In essence, the virtual genie has been uncorked. Outside of complete internet lock down and total censorship of all information, it could be extremely hard to track if the latest terrorist outfit is printing up a stockade of plastic guns to get past metal detectors with or if little Johnnie thinks that a 'bang-bang' would be neat to have and just so easily orders a printed gun...then uses it like a child plays with a toy gun...on the first living thing they can.

Besides, the way that some with power want America to become, we'll all be needing permission to do too much more then breathe. But that's a whole novel for great science fiction to venture into. After all, Americans are losing rights, all the time. It's often just tip toed through and concealed with other things or rights that next to nobody seems to care about. ("Hey! You're not allowed to buy liquor on Sundays" in some places.)

I totally forgot about the little RC plane, packed with explosives. And, isn't that it's own little trouble maker with terrorism and 3D printers? I heard just the other week about the potential of printing up drones for one time use applications. So...terrorist sets up a printer that creates a drone to deliver explosives at a particular time. Perfect sub-plot for an action scene, right there.

What an idea. Cop cars that don't do harm. Next thing we need is a cop force that need never do harm. Oh, wait. That would make them the police force out of Demolition Man.

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:16 am

While making a post in another thread, I recalled yet another bit of forward thinking from the show. In one episode, (if memory serves, KITT and Michael are in a race to save the life of a little girl) a phone call is placed from inside of KITT. (Well...make that two forward thinking deals.) Sure. Car phones were a thing back then. (Heck. I Love Lucy showcased the car phone in an episode.) But having them as a hands free model? Anyhow...what I was getting at is that when this call is placed, an automated voice takes up the receiving side and uses vocal commands to work with. Today, we have lots of automated services that work with both press button interfaces and the spoken word. But, back then, was there anything beyond the answering machine that merely played a tape and then recorded the incoming call?

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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by tharpdevenport » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:42 am

You know, you got me thinking: Siri can't even get things right all the time from voice commands, yet there was K.I.T.T. who seemed to never misunderstand Michael, unless it was some human concept or idea that K.I.T.T. couldn't know from just accessing memory banks.

jup wrote:Well, Americans do need permission to buy a gun. It's a short waiting period that allows for a background check to insure the customer is properly fit, mentally, for the responsibilities of owning and handling the weapon. And in that is where the 3D printer can totally destroy all means of safety control.


Americans don't need permission to buy a gun. They have to pass background checks if they buy a gun from a gun dealer, otherwise they can buy guns from friends, have guns passed down to them from family, other ways.

Well, that's the thing, see. Owning a firearm is a Constitutional right, but what is not a right is the American government regulating a private entity because it sees what they are doing as a threat to how they try and regulate protected freedoms.

Further more, safety controls have not made the public safe, not even in countries where they out-right banned firearms. The problems lie in a ignorant populace who knows nothing about guns, doesn't take any educational and safety classes, and sees them either as toys or scary-looking military assualt weapons. I'm not talking criminals here, because criminals not only get guns even in countries where they are banned or severely limited by "safety controls", but because any crime they committ is already illegal and they don't all do them with guns, or even any weapons at all. Tehre's always a subset of a nation or group that doesn't abide by common sense or the law, but we don't work our lives and liberty around them like a pretzel.

One where a child can't just obtain Mommy's credit card and place 'GUN' into the virtual shopping cart.


I'm sorry, but this is absurdist.

In real life even if a kid gets ahold of her mommy or daddy's credit card, they still have to have the pin number, they still have to fill in information they won't readily know, the order still appears on the card statement which the card holder will see, the items has to be shipped, delivered and somebody there has to get the package and if a kid will be in school during that time. And even then there's the issue of bullets.

And seriously -- no child is going to get their parent's credit card, go online, and order a gun. Maybe Hollywood wants people to think that happens, but in real life that's as likely as me walking into Wal-Mart and being offered a check for a million dollars for being the millionth customer.

Outside of complete internet lock down and total censorship of all information, it could be extremely hard to track if the latest terrorist outfit is printing up a stockade of plastic guns to get past metal detectors with or if little Johnnie thinks that a 'bang-bang' would be neat to have and just so easily orders a printed gun...then uses it like a child plays with a toy gun...on the first living thing they can.


Well, terrorists have no problems getting firearms, granade launches, explosives or various kinds, or the materials to make I.E.D.'s right now. Then there's the issue of terrorists actually being able to even print out guns, what with most of them having no access to electricity. And if they get them delivered from somebody who does, they still have to have a successful delivery. But personal freedom and the free market should not be at bay from the latest terrorist whim, airports imply need to do what they do in Israel: profile. Yes, they have people that talk to passengers at various stages, from getting in to the airport, to boarding, looking for suspscious activity, certain types of people, and talking and quizzing them sometiems even multiple times. As a result there have been extremely few incidents over a long time. Meanwhile here in my country (the U.S.), the T.S.A. have consistantly failed at finding guns and weapons smuggled through airport screening, treat people like terrorists for having toothpaste or even daring to film their bad attitudes, sexual assaults to various degrees, old ladies and children forced to strip naked (one old lady in public, as I recall), stealing passenger's property, and causing hellish wait times

Besides, the way that some with power want America to become, we'll all be needing permission to do too much more then breathe. But that's a whole novel for great science fiction to venture into.


Exactly. People in various positions of power, whether Congressional or just people in positions of authority that other people in power listen to, are suggestings things like:

Regulating your pets. They have a "carbon paw-print". Rest assured the world for pets here will be a scary one if things don't shift in a positive way.

Imprisoning people who don't agree with the latest political or social agenda.
Executing people who donm't agree.
Sending people to re-education camps.

Committing genocide against people with disabilities.

Killing off large swaths of the population all over Earth to make it more "sustainable".

Putting cameras and microphones in everybody's home to monitor them and many other things. If you think I made any of that up (anybody reading that), boy do you not know some of the scary elitist in this country who not only think they know better than you, but that they have to imprison or kill you off for your own good and the people's own good.

After all, Americans are losing rights, all the time. It's often just tip toed through and concealed with other things or rights that next to nobody seems to care about. ("Hey! You're not allowed to buy liquor on Sundays" in some places.)


Quite right. Just look at members of the Democrat party on the Senate floor last this week. Despotism in action. Various members want to not only even you second amendment right, but get rid of that pesky little thing called due process of the law. Soem of them, including Presidential hopeful Clinton, want to limit or even suspect and approve freedom of speech. Except for them -- they're special, you see; they get to have guns or security personnel with guns, they get to say whatever inane *?$# comes to their mind, they get to have due process, etc., etc., etc.

I heard just the other week about the potential of printing up drones for one time use applications. So...terrorist sets up a printer that creates a drone to deliver explosives at a particular time. Perfect sub-plot for an action scene, right there.


The potential exists for those with ill intent to use anything to harm others. The reality however is that currently terrorists aren't looking to print guns, as various reports from experts said they want or are trying to:

[*]Get a nuclear device. The radicals stated targhets: #1: Israel, #2: The U.S.

[*]Get nuclear material and set off suit-case sized dirty bombs.

[*]Home-made bombs like that of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

[*]Germ warfare.

[*]And an E.M.P. (like north Korea is practicing to do right now, to the U.S.). Which, by the way, woudl eliminate the use of a 3D printer.

Oh, wait. That would make them the police force out of Demolition Man.


You are hereby requested and required to flog yourself repeatedly for even saying "Demolition Man". Bad poster! Go to your room! :mrgreen:
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Re: Here's some KR forward thinking that we all overlook.

Post by jup » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:41 am

tharpdevenport wrote:You know, you got me thinking: Siri can't even get things right all the time from voice commands, yet there was K.I.T.T. who seemed to never misunderstand Michael, unless it was some human concept or idea that K.I.T.T. couldn't know from just accessing memory banks.


You know...I've never actually used Siri. Not once. Was very impressed to use a voice texting tool that operated through Google via this $29 tablet, though. Took the spoken word and turned it to text...like the original Battlestar Galactica dreamed up. (But then...another Glen Larson production. With yet another forward thinking view point.)

tharpdevenport wrote:Americans don't need permission to buy a gun. They have to pass background checks if they buy a gun from a gun dealer, otherwise they can buy guns from friends, have guns passed down to them from family, other ways.


That is a very good point, indeed. It went outside the scope of my narrowly controlled comment about ways of limiting guns to the hands of the public. And only helps to point out how the 'mythical genie' was long ago released from it's bottle. When the public has so many avenues to obtain guns and even make bullets at home, it's nearly impossible for any legal force to ever eliminate them.

tharpdevenport wrote:Well, that's the thing, see. Owning a firearm is a Constitutional right, but what is not a right is the American government regulating a private entity because it sees what they are doing as a threat to how they try and regulate protected freedoms.


And, should America ever truly fall and the dangerously rumored U.K. ever take over, the 'Right to Bare Arms' is their very first targeted right to forcefully take away. If that notion should ever come to be, I would be justified to be very afraid of 'the new government'. America is nowhere near perfect and has been undermined for way too many years. But, there are far worse things that could come to pass. It's an easy trap to think that the current status quo of the world has played out it's power plays. That's the furthest thing from the truth. Everything we know can change; albeit slowly in a matter of decades or centuries or in minutes with a well executed power play. Why, not so many years ago, a few lawyers changed a few words in a few laws. To summarize that, the whole economy system nearly crashed. A swift, silent blow from the iconic pen that could do as much damage as a whole army.

One where a child can't just obtain Mommy's credit card and place 'GUN' into the virtual shopping cart.
tharpdevenport wrote:
I'm sorry, but this is absurdist.

In real life even if a kid gets ahold of her mommy or daddy's credit card, they still have to have the pin number, they still have to fill in information they won't readily know, the order still appears on the card statement which the card holder will see, the items has to be shipped, delivered and somebody there has to get the package and if a kid will be in school during that time. And even then there's the issue of bullets.

And seriously -- no child is going to get their parent's credit card, go online, and order a gun. Maybe Hollywood wants people to think that happens, but in real life that's as likely as me walking into Wal-Mart and being offered a check for a million dollars for being the millionth customer.


Oh...let's see here. I'm going into e-bay for this example. Typing in gun, water. (No point in being scared about what real gun listings may come up.)

Ahhh...found quite a few. Choosing price point. And...one penny with free shipping. (Really, Hong Kong? How you make money off of just a singular penny???) Erm...I'll go with the .88 cent/free shipping version, as that one is 'buy it now'.

Alright. Clicking on the 'Buy it now' button. Choosing how to pay. Click. Click. And, done. In a week or so, I'll have a plastic gun. No pins or questions asked.

Not such a jump away from the user being some intelligent kid with a desire to shoot over a responsible adult, an ordering process being NOT-e-Bay but the Dark Web, the money source NOT being PayPal but BitCoin, the delivery system NOT being USPS but by a flying drone and the gun NOT being pre-made to squirt water but in a little canister to be printed on a jail broken 3D printer. Honestly, I'm just a little bit scared at how easy that really could be.

Well, terrorists have no problems getting firearms, granade launches, explosives or various kinds, or the materials to make I.E.D.'s right now. Then there's the issue of terrorists actually being able to even print out guns, what with most of them having no access to electricity.


Well, you've got me, there. I have relatively little idea about the conditions that terrorists tend to exist at. No idea at all how hard it is for them to get a hold of car batteries, inverters and solar cells or generators. I'm clueless as to how some can get crazy loads of money to invest in even crazier ideas on conducting terrorism. But, when there are people out there, trying to bring computing to the middle of a third world nation by making Linux machines that have natural sunlight screens that may wind up as apart of our future mobile devices and solar cells/cranks for power sources, plus use low altitude satellites for rural land internet, I wouldn't be sure about anything needing a steady supply from an AC land line, these days.

Also, found a portable 3D printer with internal battery pack. https://youtu.be/IKdMRYLMx4M?t=5m54s Mobilized tech is becoming ever easier with each passing year.

Yes, they have people that talk to passengers at various stages, from getting in to the airport, to boarding, looking for suspscious activity, certain types of people, and talking and quizzing them sometiems even multiple times. As a result there have been extremely few incidents over a long time. Meanwhile here in my country (the U.S.), the T.S.A. have consistantly failed at finding guns and weapons smuggled through airport screening, treat people like terrorists for having toothpaste or even daring to film their bad attitudes, sexual assaults to various degrees, old ladies and children forced to strip naked (one old lady in public, as I recall), stealing passenger's property, and causing hellish wait times


So glad I never have the need to fly anywhere. Sounds dreadful.

tharpdevenport wrote:
Besides, the way that some with power want America to become, we'll all be needing permission to do too much more then breathe. But that's a whole novel for great science fiction to venture into.


Exactly. People in various positions of power, whether Congressional or just people in positions of authority that other people in power listen to...


There's a whole lot of scary concepts, just floating about, out there. It's a wonder our world continues to spin at all.

Killing off large swaths of the population all over Earth to make it more "sustainable".


Ah...what stupid thing did they call that? Plan 2000? Year 2000? Century 2000? Only the chosen 'cream of the crop' are to survive some man made super disaster disguised as war or some BS fantasy. Problem is, the ones being fed this stuff are also fingering the same powers that have made things like ICBM's and other super weapons. Geez...should I dig up that smuggled out footage from a ritual at some government camp where presidents and power types attend? It's kind of like a mixture of college hazing, mixed in with some really screwed up concepts that are the fuel for nightmares.

Putting cameras and microphones in everybody's home to monitor them and many other things. If you think I made any of that up (anybody reading that), boy do you not know some of the scary elitist in this country who not only think they know better than you, but that they have to imprison or kill you off for your own good and the people's own good.


What? You mean they haven't already tricked us all into doing that with the cameras???

*jup types as there's a pre-mounted camera on top of the screen, poised to look him in the eyes.*

Some years back, I was at a concert and was wasting time with a Game Boy in hand. One of the security people approached and asked if I had any recording devices. I assured her the Game Boy couldn't take video and that satisfied her. But, then I thought about it. This DS (I will forever and ever be calling them Game Boys. Name branding, like every soda is a Coke.) has a camera aimed outwards and another at my face. Why both? Honestly. I'm not sure the whole point of the second one. But, I was also carrying a 3DS for when the DS ran low. That has three more camera eyes. And the Cel-Phone had one. The true cam-corder (that wasn't out) qualified as a sixth. And I had even another camera device on my body. Seven cameras. And that was just for the portables.

So many of these modern computers have pre-mounted eyes, squarely above their monitors. Sure. Internet chat streaming convenience. Nah. Big Brother monitoring, more likely. (Be it US of A or M$ or someone else.) They all even have microphones. And so many tend to seek out any connection points. (I tested out that tablet's 'speak to text' feature at the beach to see if it was doing it internally or relaying my voice to a main frame. The thing acted extremely laggy. Giving me my suspected answer. But...that was it. It was still getting some stray internet access. Didn't ask me or anything. Pre-geared to always be on-line. I can so easily see something like Google making these terabyte transcripts of everyone's lives for the use of who-knows-what via all this tech. They gave whole Gigabytes of e-mail to anyone whom asked. (Probably for a centralized point of Big Brothering, suspectfully.))

And then there is this user's entry about the time when he was setting up a brand new Apple computer. In the same room, he had a far older Mac that had come with one of those remote chat cameras. Old enough that it had tell tale LED's for power and activity. According to him, this camera wasn't really used and he never ran the program for chatting. But, for the first time...in a long time...those LED's just switched on. As if the new computer had accessed a back door to the older machine...to have a look around the new place. The government doesn't need to create a law that puts cameras into residential homes. When the things come on some of the most popular electronics that people want...under the guise of being a feature of convenience.

And, to think...I actually thought it was funny when the traffic signals had BOTH the video cameras AND the stop light cameras in place. Because one wasn't replacing the other at all. Oh, I've long suspected that some kind of super computer was running billions of facial ID's to log the comings and goings of people, 24/7 with that stuff.

Quite right. Just look at members of the Democrat party on the Senate floor last this week. Despotism in action. Various members want to not only even you second amendment right, but get rid of that pesky little thing called due process of the law. Soem of them, including Presidential hopeful Clinton, want to limit or even suspect and approve freedom of speech. Except for them -- they're special, you see; they get to have guns or security personnel with guns, they get to say whatever inane *?$# comes to their mind, they get to have due process, etc., etc., etc.


Politicians wanting all the power and control over everyone else? You don't say? And here I am, thinking that the only people in Washington, D.C. were there to do nothing but serve the good people of the country and always had completely honest agendas.

As a teacher I held in high regards would have stated it, "I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them." It be nice to think that some are there with good hearts and want to make a difference. But, let's put a KR twist on this. Michael Knight resided about as far away from Washington, D.C. as he possibly could without stepping on Magnum P.I.'s toes. It seems rather unlikely that the powerhouse of the country has too many Michael Knight types, trying to make this world into a better place for all. More likely, the power of the jobs to be found there, attract those with underlying goals of a great variety of dirty things. And some of the things they might do to achieve their agendas are probably best not thought about.

Having grown up, embracing the more black and white style of writing like from our beloved Glen A Larson, I tend to push off the government agendas of the world, leaving that point of view for the likes of Tom Clancy.

The potential exists for those with ill intent to use anything to harm others. The reality however is that currently terrorists aren't looking to print guns, as various reports from experts said they want or are trying to:

[*]Get a nuclear device. The radicals stated targhets: #1: Israel, #2: The U.S.

[*]Get nuclear material and set off suit-case sized dirty bombs.

[*]Home-made bombs like that of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

[*]Germ warfare.

[*]And an E.M.P. (like north Korea is practicing to do right now, to the U.S.). Which, by the way, woudl eliminate the use of a 3D printer.


So sadly so. So. Sadly. So.

One insight from science fiction warns that any species advanced enough to create super weapons is either doomed to self annihilation by a select point of advancement or learn how to surpass the need for all forms of violence. It is merely a foot race to see which side reaches the finishing line, first.

You are hereby requested and required to flog yourself repeatedly for even saying "Demolition Man". Bad poster! Go to your room! :mrgreen:


Let's all laugh at the subject matter, instead. Shall we? https://youtu.be/efzCBvq3Q98?list=PLvbw ... saaD9w3E1R

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