Is Knight Rider 2000 truly canon?

[ConwayGilligan1993]

Is Knight Rider 2000 truly canon? Honestly, I could imagine Michael becoming somewhat disillusioned after the death of Stevie, but so much so that he would leave the Foundation? For that matter, why didn't Michael take KITT with him when he left? Obviously the Foundation didn't have much use for him, considering Russell Maddock later has him dismantled, and surely they didn't attempt to find a new partner for KITT?

[Michael Pajaro]

We all have our own definitions of canon.

Some people say Universal Studios defines canon - they own the properties, they create canon. Some say Glen Larson defines canon - he created the franchise, he gets to define it. Some say the novelizations are included in canon.

The timelines for all the spin-offs are mutually exclusive: Knight Rider 2000, Team Knight Rider and Knight Rider '08 do not co-exist in the same universe. (KR2010 is basically irrelevant.) But you can certainly choose to accept multiple parallel universes, all in-canon if you like.

For me personally, I go along with the parallel universe - as long as it was on screen somewhere, it's canon. I think we as fans have a need to include Knight Rider 2000 as canon because it gave us a chance to say goodbye to Devon, and also Edward Mulhare. I don't care at all about Shawn or Maddock, but Devon? Sure.

[MrSmith]

It had Edward Mulhare, Hasselhoff, it used Daniels voice for KITT, which are musts for me.

The story was weak compared to the original series, I really couldn't see Michael Knight leaving FLAG, but that is just what I want to believe, everyone gets tired and disillusioned with things, everyone needs change in their life and a break, But it did fit in with the original show I suppose, KR 2008 was too sexed up, the violence, it didn't feel at all like the old show. It was just a TV show that happened to be called Knight Rider, it had very little in feel to the original show.



So I would say that KR 2000 is canon yes.

[Deveo]

I'd say Knight Rider 2000 is more canon than every other movie based on Knight Rider. Because it had all the neccesary items - William Daniels as KITT, the Hoff and Mulhare - despite of the story being rubbish. KR 2008 does fit in with the storyline of the original series but always seems to me as a caricature of the original. It does certainly have good things, but when I saw KITT as a HAL-3000 clone in the 1st season I passed.

Speaking of canon, the Knight Rider Fan Game will have a story which incorporates Knight Rider, KR2K, TKR and KR2008 into one big storyline (with a major focus on the original series). With some tiny adjustments to the KR2K and TKR story they fit in to create one big storyline for the Knight Rider universe. Once you've seen it I hope it will make more sense

[Tbird100636]

In terms of cannons, I'd say the 2008 Series is more of a cannon than KR 2000. (KR2010 was a total cannon) Based on the story line of 2000, it was a continuation of the original story line, and if you paid attention Shawn points out he left around 1990 when he burned out. Stevie's death was during the 4th season, which was set (and aired) in 1986. Here's some points I made elsewhere back in 2008 when the pilot movie for the 2008 series aired.

Wilton Knight funded the creation of KARR and KITT. They were both his idea but he had scientists build the 2 cars. This new story is leading you to believe this Charles Graiman did it all.
Michael Long had a wife and a child??? So what was Stephanie (Stevie), his mistress?!?
Anybody notice the TPI 305 or 350- 1982 T/A didn't have TPI, KITT didn't have a stock motor supposedly according to the storyline of the original series.
So where does this movie storyline fall into as far as time, because Knight Rider 2000 was supposed to be around year 2000... and that was the Knight 4000... the car in the new TV movie is the Knight 3000... so what happened to The Foundation for Law and Government being run by Russ Maddock and KIFT being driven by Shawn McCormick???
So how are they going to bring back Goliath, they gonna say Mike Traceur has a long lost evil twin brother named Garthe???
These are the questions die hard fans ask when you change a story line.

[Jürgen]

Reading the above posts, you might not agree with what I will say, but you ask for my opinion...

I, of course, have my own version of my canon, and I could never swallow KR2000.

The first rule: Knight Rider, the original series, from Season 1 to Season 4, is canon as it is. (Though when I watch the whole series in a row, I change Voo Doo Knight and Scent of Roses as I feel it to be the right order. I can't really imagine Michael being all funny and joking around after his wife died, or going on missions. I know he went back to the Foundation, but still, I believe he must have needed some time to reignite his own fire.)

Now, everything else for me falls into the partially canon category.

For Knight Rider 2000, Michael's, Devon's and KITT's personalities are canon for me. They are really themselves and I love them. But:
1. I remember how I felt as a kid when I watched Devon die such a meaningless death. I think I decided it in that moment that I will never fully accept this to be true.
2. There are so many plot holes they never explained, like why was KITT just thrown away like that, why didn't anyone do anything about it... it just bugs me.
3. I never understood why they placed it in a "futuristic" year 2000. I think everyone could have already suspected in 1991 that in the year 2000, people won't be cryogenically frozen and shot by stun guns, with chips in their heads. That whole future seemed wrong to me - the original series had its story in the same time it was made, and it was perfect. What was wrong with 1991, with a normal environment? I always liked Knight Rider to be "believable" in the era it was created in, except for some of the sci-fi kind of technology of course, though some of those actually proved to be possible in the 21th century with small computers with huge hard disk and memory capacities, GPS, and so on. Knight Rider 2000 had almost nothing believable about it for me.
4. The red Banshee lookalike... come on, it's a great concept car, but who the hell would go on a to-be-kept-secret operation with a huge red boat on small wheels?

For Knight Rider 2008: too much sex (like, there is Knight Rider and there is porn, but why make them one?), even for me. Of course, I love looking at sexy girls as a more or less grown up man, but when I'm watching Knight Rider, I'm the same kid I was when I first watched the original series. And that kid wants to look at action, a cool guy and a super car, and maybe some bikini girls, yes, but not in that dosage.
Also, the whole storyline started out wrong. I know they had a kind of reboot near the end of the first season where they changed the story to be more like the original series, not saving the world from terrorists Jack Bauer style, but actually helping the innocent and saving ordinary people from criminals above the law, Michael Knight style. It was too late, unfortunately. I could also never accept KARR as a transformer, like it didn't really made sense at all, however I want to put it, it just doesn't work for me.
I loved the series for the characters though, the new KITT, Mike, and the rest. The Mustang was hard to stomach first (could have accepted it more easily if the original KITT were a big freakin Dodge Charger or something, not a sleek, streamlined sports car), but I got used to it. Attack Mode also made sense to me as the modern version of Super Pursuit Mode. I wish the series could have had time to mature and live up to the original one. I'm sure if we've had five or six brilliant seasons, we could have forgot the little errors of the first season. Sadly, it wasn't given justice.

TKR... let's say it had a few good episodes and a few good ideas, but I wouldn't say much else about it. Oh yeah, on second though: KRO was cool.

Well, that's what I believe...

[ConwayGilligan1993]

Wilton Knight funded the creation of KARR and KITT. They were both his idea but he had scientists build the 2 cars. This new story is leading you to believe this Charles Graiman did it all.
Michael Long had a wife and a child??? So what was Stephanie (Stevie), his mistress?!?
Anybody notice the TPI 305 or 350- 1982 T/A didn't have TPI, KITT didn't have a stock motor supposedly according to the storyline of the original series.
So where does this movie storyline fall into as far as time, because Knight Rider 2000 was supposed to be around year 2000... and that was the Knight 4000... the car in the new TV movie is the Knight 3000... so what happened to The Foundation for Law and Government being run by Russ Maddock and KIFT being driven by Shawn McCormick???
So how are they going to bring back Goliath, they gonna say Mike Traceur has a long lost evil twin brother named Garthe???
These are the questions die hard fans ask when you change a story line.

I was thinking the same thing... So, we're to believe that Charles Graiman built both KARR and KITT? If they knew they were going in that direction, there could of least been more of an effort to connect the two series in terms of continuity, like having newly created flashbacks of a young Graiman during the construction of the original KITT, for example. Have several guest appearances by David Hasselhoff, and the original KITT voiced by William Daniels if possible, have nods to the original series, that sort of thing. Charles Graiman built the original KITT, that should be a big deal, but its not treated as such, nor is it elaborated upon more, just something the writers pulled out of thin air.

Also, was the KARR in the 2008 series supposed to be the original rebuilt from his last encounter with Michael and KITT in KITT vs. KARR?

[Michael Pajaro]

It's hard not to include KR2000 as canon since it had most of our favorite actors in it. But as a "spiritual successor" to the original show, I actually think Knight Rider '08 was much better than KR2000. All of the character dynamics, the pacing, the action... everything just seemed off in Knight Rider 2000 but a lot of it was recreated in '08.

There is no in-story connection between the two KARRs. KARR in 2008 was not meant to be the same computer/program/whatever that we saw in the 80s.

[Jürgen]

There is no in-story connection between the two KARRs. KARR in 2008 was not meant to be the same computer/program/whatever that we saw in the 80s.

That's actually how I saw it, too, but why use the name KARR to build another AI then? Like, would you vote for a politican called Hitler or Stalin today? That's why I suspect that the KR08 series was intended to be half a continuation, half a remake. They did not want to appeal to hardcore fans who actually saw all the episodes multiple times, know details and are enraged when something is way off. They did not want real continuity between the two series. Who else would want that besides hardcore fans? They wanted to appeal to people who remember and loved the original series' atmosphere, recalled a guy and a shiny black talking car called KITT, also a bad evil twin of it called KARR, but nothing specific. They wanted to create a story that's kind of the modern version of the original series, and in that sense, I think they did pretty well. But still, these are the reasons I also can't imagine that the original series and KR08 are in exactly the same universe. Then, does this mean I consider it to be canon or not? Hard questions, really. I wouldn't say there is one real continuation of the original Knight Rider, as it is. I love all of its offsprings in a way, but I don't think any two of them belong to the same universe, timeline, or whatever we want to call it. They are just different interpretations of the same "Knight Rider feeling", with some characters that are the same as the original ones, and some that are based on them.

To get back to the topic, it's true that Knight Rider 2000 stands the closest to the original series in a way, because of loveable Hasselhoff, brilliant Mulhare and of course, the one and only William Daniels.

[blowersho]

Even though KR 2000 was just wrong on so many levels it is the only true post Scent of Roses episode/movie ever made, so it is absolutely canon.

There is no in-story connection between the two KARRs. KARR in 2008 was not meant to be the same computer/program/whatever that we saw in the 80s.

That's actually how I saw it, too, but why use the name KARR to build another AI then? Like, would you vote for a politican called Hitler or Stalin today? That's why I suspect that the KR08 series was intended to be half a continuation, half a remake. They did not want to appeal to hardcore fans who actually saw all the episodes multiple times, know details and are enraged when something is way off. They did not want real continuity between the two series. Who else would want that besides hardcore fans? They wanted to appeal to people who remember and loved the original series' atmosphere, recalled a guy and a shiny black talking car called KITT, also a bad evil twin of it called KARR, but nothing specific. They wanted to create a story that's kind of the modern version of the original series, and in that sense, I think they did pretty well. But still, these are the reasons I also can't imagine that the original series and KR08 are in exactly the same universe. Then, does this mean I consider it to be canon or not? Hard questions, really. I wouldn't say there is one real continuation of the original Knight Rider, as it is. I love all of its offsprings in a way, but I don't think any two of them belong to the same universe, timeline, or whatever we want to call it. They are just different interpretations of the same "Knight Rider feeling", with some characters that are the same as the original ones, and some that are based on them.

To get back to the topic, it's true that Knight Rider 2000 stands the closest to the original series in a way, because of loveable Hasselhoff, brilliant Mulhare and of course, the one and only William Daniels.

The writers just threw KARR in there because they really had no understanding of the KR mythology or what made the show work. They thought that because KARR is KITT's ultimate adversary bringing him into the mix would fix a disastrous show. The KR 08 pilot had KITT and Hoff in it even though their combined on screen time was less then two minutes so in some strange way I think they did exist in the same universe.

[Skav]

Actually, I don't think they ever confirmed whether KARR from the 08 series was from the original, so it's still up for interpretation. As for what's canon, it's a bit difficult. I despise KR 2000 despite that it has most of the familiar ingredients, yet, the recent show missed those ingredients for the most part and did a better job. Hmmmm.

[Nicholas Knight]

In my opinion, each of the spinoffs has something missing. I have my own personal grades, with A being the most Canon to the Original Series.

(B-) The Knight Rider 2000 movie had all the elements of Knight Rider (Devon, Micheal, KITT) but the storyline was TOO drama. Not much action. Too futuristic environment. Not much told of Micheal Knight's decision to leave FLAG, which in my opinion, was extremely important. The partnership between Maddock and Devon of FLAG seemed ok, but Shawn's relationship with KITT seemed kinda weak. The car itself.......well....was tolerable, but as the Classic KITT said, should've stuck with "Basic Black". And should've been more of a combination between the Pontiac Banshee and the 82 Pontiac Trans-Am, with a familiar hood, flip up headlights, KNIGHT license plate and the red voicebox.

(D-) Well the second spinoff......Knight Rider 2010....began with a storyline having the basic elements (one man who made a difference, black supercar --originally "Hannah" was all black, and action filled). But something went terribly wrong. Storyline changed, maybe the director liked Mad Max -- it changed into an apocalyptic movie. The car was totally redone, from a sleek black car with the "Knight" symbol on its CHROME tires......to a junky looking jalopy. Then another custom car was built.......black....stealth-like.....that one of the villians drove. And the movie was given TWO titles: Knight Rider 2010 for the US, and MetalForce -Apocalypse in LA overseas. Either way, It has absolutely NO connection to the Original series.

(C+) The third spinoff, Team Knight Rider, is one of the strangest spinoffs in my opinion. Again, some the elements of Knight Rider are present (talking cars, action,). Marland Industries replaced Knight Industries, but FLAG still Besides that, it becomes weird. No pilot episode explaining how the team got together. All of the team members wear Bonnie styled clothes. very cheap special effects (the ComboCar magically converts into two cycles Domino, the mustang with bulletproof convertible with no top). The episodes were so-so at best, but the mysterious character "Shadow" and the identity of Mobius, the super baddie, kept viewers watching. Some lil additions to the Character of Domino (Ski Mode and the red light on the grill in later episodes) got my interest. My favorite episodes are K.R.O. and the Legion of Doom. But having Jenny's dad Micheal Long seemed kinda outta place to me. The picture of KITT in the last episode was interesting, Hydro 2000 was laughable, and the Long Black Trenchcoated Micheal Knight at the end was cool tho.

(B+) Which leads to the BEST CANON in my opinion. Knight Rider 2008 TV Movie. It has KITT, still intact, and the original Micheal Knight. But then having Jennifer Traceur as the original MK girlfriend that was pregnant and ignoring Stevie and the "playboy single life" of MK and having him as a deadbeat dad is an insult. The sexuality in the story gives the once family friendly series an R-ish rating by having Agent Rivai gay and having Mike sleeping with two women in the beginning of the movie. Honestly by being a fan of Knight Rider, and a parent as well, I explained and watched KR with my son. Having to explain odd situations like this to my son kinda throws off the KR feeling. And no Turbo Boost in this movie was kinda sad, but I knew that the Turbo Boost in the part one pilot of the OS was just a speed boost. But the end of the movie it all seemed logical. Graiman would be the "Devon" and Micheal Knight would mentor Mike Traceur.

(B) The 08-09 Series which ignores all the other KR movies (2000) but takes some of the 08 pilot, but then adds little information of the Original Series besides some codenames. But the elements are there (cool car, cool driver, action). But even with the addition of turbo boost the feeling was still incomplete in this series and the sexuality and constant Ford promotions and transformations dulled this series. Then there was way too many Main Characters. And the KARR episode, Knight to Kings Pawn, was a crammed up storyline mess. But the episodes afterward was "too little, too late" and the series was cancelled.

--In My Opinion--

[Deveo]

Couldn't agree more with Nicholas Knight.

[Jürgen]

Even though KR 2000 was just wrong on so many levels it is the only true post Scent of Roses episode/movie ever made, so it is absolutely canon.

Well, we can agree to disagree.

The writers just threw KARR in there because they really had no understanding of the KR mythology or what made the show work. They thought that because KARR is KITT's ultimate adversary bringing him into the mix would fix a disastrous show. The KR 08 pilot had KITT and Hoff in it even though their combined on screen time was less then two minutes so in some strange way I think they did exist in the same universe.

They had no understanding of it because they did not want to understand, in my opinion. After all, Knight Rider is not that hard to comprehend.

...

...

Agreed in all points. Wish I had the money and power to make a new series that is a faithful continuation to the original series. I think even David Hasselhoff would approve and join, if possible. I firmly believe that it would be possible to make a series that is faithful to the old one and still enjoyable for today's viewers. All these "sequels" and "spin-offs" had so many great ideas, but in a way, all wasted...

[Tbird100636]

OK, maybe I'm confusing "canon" with "re-boot". I thought a canon was part of the original premiss but differing greatly.

[Jürgen]

Canon is whatever fits into the original story line, whatever actually "happened" in the Knight Rider universe. As there is no "official" canon, I think it's up to everyone to decide what they consider canon and what they don't.

[Tbird100636]

Canon is whatever fits into the original story line, whatever actually "happened" in the Knight Rider universe. As there is no "official" canon, I think it's up to everyone to decide what they consider canon and what they don't.

OK, now I understand. In that case, let me correct my previous statement:

In terms of cannons, I'd say the 2008 Series is less of a canon than KR 2000. (KR2010 was a total knock-off) Based on the story line of 2000, it was a continuation of the original story line, and if you paid attention Shawn points out he left around 1990 when he burned out. Stevie's death was during the 4th season, which was set (and aired) in 1986.

[Army_F_Body]

I've heard that KR2000 the series would have been like Viper and some sources tell me that Viper became what was left of the KR2000 concept. Apparently Dodge wouldn't let them have free Stealths just to modify them into an almost Banshee and to do it all on their own would have cost a fortune for NBC. Remember GM wanted a hour long TV add and supplied the cars for the first show (and I've heard rumors that Ford pulling out pretty much killed the 2008 show). I heard that more movie-of-the-week stuff was planned as it was one of the highest watched TV-movies NBC had that year but they never came to pass. Viper apparently used sets and vehicles that would have gone into KR2000 the series.

To me the 2008 show erases KR2000 from continuity but even though they claim it to be a continuation the 2008 series was not IMO, but NBC claims it too be. It basically treated things like there was another AI car with a driver years before that happened to be Traceur's estranged father, that was the first show wrapped up nice and tidy for continuity purposes. I've heard that they didn't want the writers to have to know all the past history and just wanted them to crank out stories as fast as possible if the show took off without worrying about tieing everything in. Even the exec-producer had no knowledge of the original show because he claimed the first show never addressed who built KITT and that was their way to join to two shows together. Wilton came up with the idea, Devon managed it and dozens of scientists from all over the world made the car. Also, for Tracuer to be Micheal's son he'd have to be from his Michael Long days and after he wakes up at the Foundation mansion he seems to have no regrets about leaving his past life behind. In 4-years he only acknowledges missing Stevie and his old partner when he was a rookie cop.

I think whatever projects that spring up in the future with the KR name will try to retcon all previous spin-offs out of existence and try to tie in directly to the original series unless we get a full reboot of some kind.

[jup]

How do I see KR 2000 fitting in? Like Super Mario Bros. 2 did it. Or, how Bob Newhart did it. Hince, Michael wakes up in a cold sweat and realizes that KR 2000 was just a bad dream, shortly after losing Stevie. Moving on.

2010 can be a sequel nightmare. ;P

[Army_F_Body]

I just see the 1982 KR and separate lines drawing off of it for KR2000, KR2010, TKR and KR2008.