Season 4

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Season 4

Post by occhile1984 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:12 pm

Ok, so I've been watching the first 5-6 episodes of Season 4, and i wanted to see what everyones thoughts were. Not only was it the final season, but the last episode that aired was without a doubt disappointing. What were your favorite parts or least favorite parts.

I'll start things off...

Favorite Parts:

-SPS/EBS
-C button
-Scent of the Roses
-RC3
:kittconv:

Least Favorite:

-Voodo Knight
-too many episodes had a protype that was either stolen or hijacked
-not as many memorable moments as say Season 2 and 3.
-sometimes it felt like the show became more Mission Impossible, instead of, ONE MAN CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE...


Well, it's a start. Also, what are everyones thoughts on Supervising Producer - Burton Armus. I never really heard anyone speak of him. I know he came on at the end of Season 3 and was a part of Knight Rider til the end. Did he make the show more interesting, or did you notice a change when he came on. And, for anyone who doesn't know who he is, he also produced Airworlf and Kojak.

Let me know what you think.

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Re: Season 4

Post by Knight Rider Archive » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:47 am

It's interesting you bring up the Mission: Impossible feel - Bruce Lansbury was also a producer on that show. He's the real-life brother of Angela Lansbury from Murder She Wrote.

I think it's ironic that the show fell into the hands of producers who worked on the various Knight Rider imitators. Lansbury had previously spent time on Street Hawk; Armus worked on Airwolf and Street Hawk. When they came on board, the tone and feel of the show certainly changed, not always for the better.

I've always had one criticism for Armus's scripts: They are very well written (a rare case of first-drafts being almost completely shootable) but he just didn't seem to "get" Knight Rider. His episodes always end with Michael rounding up the "henchman", and letting the cops get the big bad guy - he tapes a confession from Flood that implicates Grebbs in 'Custom Made Killer'. He tapes a confession from Curtis that implicates Shatner in 'Ten Wheel Trouble'. He fights Velez in 'Knight Song' while RC3 confronts Lawson. The only exceptions are Tanika in 'Knight of the Rising Sun', an episode where the story was co-written with Lansbury and the script was by E. Nick Alexander; and 'Knight of the Juggernaut', co-written with Robert Foster (although Michael and Bonnie still need outside help to rebuild K.I.T.T.)

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Re: Season 4

Post by Skav » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:25 pm

I think season 4 is quite underrated!

There are a lot of gems in this season, including KOTJ, Killer KITT, Scent of Roses, Kittnap, Sky Knight, The Wrong Crowd, KnighT Behind Bars, Redemption of a Champion and Out of the Woods.

Compare that with the most memorable episodes of season 3, Junkyard Dog, KITT vs KARR, Halloween Knight, KOTD, Knights of the Fast Lane, and perhaps throw in Dead of Knight for reasonable measure, then it's clear in my opinion that season 4 had more better episodes.

Of course, we all have our own favourite episodes so those lists will differ from person to person.

A lot of people say that SPM jumps the shark but it's no more believable than a car jumping over a truck in the middle of a busy street. In comparison to other tv shows, the SPM concept was quite a mild "jump the shark" area of season 4.

Convertible mode? Didn't bother me much. It was hardly used in the season, and even when it was, it was only used during Michael's "relaxing moments". If it were used during action scenes then I'd have a beef.

Season 4 also had some great writing! The villains were more hard edged and the series went back to the tone of the pilot. It was dark and the light-heartedness that was adopted by the first three seasons was mostly gone, save from a few moments here and there.

Lastly, let's not forget that they brushed up on the camera angles and the position of the seat so it was more difficult to see the "invisible driver" when KITT drove himself. I never spotted the "invisible driver" as a kid, but it's plain to see now when watching the first 3 seasons!

As for Voodoo Knight, I believe Knight Song was the worst episode. I think people are more disappointed at the fact that the series ended on a routine mission episode rather than an episode that made the series go out with a bang. However, I just think of Scent of Roses as the last one.

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Re: Season 4

Post by crashb648 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:00 pm

Its funny this topic appearing when I was thinking the same thing myself. Many people think that the season 4 was the worst series, which i think it is, but its no way near as bad as people say it is.

As already mentioned, season 4 had a number of classic episodes such as:

> Knight of the Juggernaut (action packed, KITT vs Juggernaut, the future of the foundation under threat, Devon copy)
> Kittnap (one of my favourties from the entire series run. Also liked Janine Turner who starred in northern exposure, another one of the favourite tv shows)
> Sky Knight (certainly in my top 10 of knight rider episodes, great stuff!)
> Knight Racer (some good scenes, such as kitt racing round a f1 style race track, michael driving a f1 style car)
> The Scent of Roses (do i really need to explain why i like this episode?)
> Killer K.I.T.T. (when kitt turns bad is always great episodes, and this is his worst yet.)

Even then, there are a few good episodes too, that i quite liked:

> The Wrong Crowd (good storyline for learning more about the semi)
> Knight Sting (all the flag team teaming up, and interesing plastic concept)
> Many Happy Returns (just a great action packed episode)
> Knight Song (i quite liked the music theme to this episode)
> Deadly Knightshade (i think one of the better villians of the series)
> Fright Knight (One of the first episodes i liked when i started watching this when i was younger)

But then you had some proper stinkers too, but not really that many more than season 3.

There is one way i thought of to describe season 4:

It's not that there are more bad episodes, its just there isnt as many classic episodes.
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Re: Season 4

Post by Skav » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:06 pm

crashb648 wrote:Its funny this topic appearing when I was thinking the same thing myself. Many people think that the season 4 was the worst series, which i think it is, but its no way near as bad as people say it is.

As already mentioned, season 4 had a number of classic episodes such as:

> Knight of the Juggernaut (action packed, KITT vs Juggernaut, the future of the foundation under threat, Devon copy)
> Kittnap (one of my favourties from the entire series run. Also liked Janine Turner who starred in northern exposure, another one of the favourite tv shows)
> Sky Knight (certainly in my top 10 of knight rider episodes, great stuff!)
> Knight Racer (some good scenes, such as kitt racing round a f1 style race track, michael driving a f1 style car)
> The Scent of Roses (do i really need to explain why i like this episode?)
> Killer K.I.T.T. (when kitt turns bad is always great episodes, and this is his worst yet.)

Even then, there are a few good episodes too, that i quite liked:

> The Wrong Crowd (good storyline for learning more about the semi)
> Knight Sting (all the flag team teaming up, and interesing plastic concept)
> Many Happy Returns (just a great action packed episode)
> Knight Song (i quite liked the music theme to this episode)
> Deadly Knightshade (i think one of the better villians of the series)
> Fright Knight (One of the first episodes i liked when i started watching this when i was younger)

But then you had some proper stinkers too, but not really that many more than season 3.

There is one way i thought of to describe season 4:

It's not that there are more bad episodes, its just there isnt as many classic episodes.


And just to add that I think people like to hate up on a final season of a tv show just for the sake of it. There are valid reasons for disliking a final season, but as you said, you think there isn't as many classic episodes. I am wondering if Killer KITT, Scent of Roses and KITTnap would have been "more classical" if they were not in season 4.

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Re: Season 4

Post by occhile1984 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:05 pm

But somehow the producers kept the formula...one man, one car, he never uses a gun, turbo boost in almost every episode, a damsel in distress, a family/group/murder that has to be solved or helped, the theme that was constantly played throughout each and every episode (let's see other shows do that now adays), kitt interacts with some funny character like the mehanic in knight racer, or chuck from many happy returns.

I think after i'm finished watching this season, i will go through and pick my favorite episodes from other seasons and see which ones had the most.

The more i continue watching season 4, i realize that i have my memories of these episodes from when i was a kid. Knight of the Juggernaut, KITTNAP, Many Happy Returns, Killer KITT, and Scent of the Roses (which will always be the last episode in my mind).

Just like other shows that ended...it's not that we didn't like the season, it's that we weren't ready for the end...

By the way, how funny would it have been to see KARR come back in SEASON 4 and become equipped with SPM???

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Re: Season 4

Post by jyd85 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:59 pm

Knight Rider Archive wrote:It's interesting you bring up the Mission: Impossible feel - Bruce Lansbury was also a producer on that show. He's the real-life brother of Angela Lansbury from Murder She Wrote.

I think it's ironic that the show fell into the hands of producers who worked on the various Knight Rider imitators. Lansbury had previously spent time on Street Hawk; Armus worked on Airwolf and Street Hawk. When they came on board, the tone and feel of the show certainly changed, not always for the better.


Now didn't Bruce Lansbury also work on The Brady Bunch? Because I remember seeing the name in the credits a couple years ago, and wondering if that was the same guy.

While Season 4 wasn't Grade A stuff, I still like it slightly better than Season 1. Partly because of the scenes that Kitt had with strangers he'd come across. (The blonde from Deadly Knightshade. The homeless guy from Hills of Fire. Chuck from Many Happy Returns, and so on…) Plus S4 didn't come across as...what's the word I'm looking for? Campy as the first season? Not that that's a bad thing.

Of course there's the episodes we all enjoy. KOTJ, Killer K.I.T.T., The Scent of Roses. Though for me, I feel that Sky Knight and Redemption of a Champion are two very underrated episodes. Sky Knight was suspenseful, and reinforced that the FLAG team was a group of people who really cared about each other and had faith in one another. ROAC I feel really got back to what Wilton Knight wanted to accomplish with the Foundation. There's others in the season I like, but those two stand out for me.

As far as the worst episode, I would have to say Knight of a Thousand Devils. The last two times I put that in, I could barely stay awake.

I didn't mind SPM. It came in handy at times. I wish though that they had made RC at least a little more rough around the edges.
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Re: Season 4

Post by ShadowRider » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:06 am

I didn't like much about the convertible mode since it could've been achieved to some extent with T-Tops or as Michael called it "sunroof". But as mentioned, it was't used during action scenes so it didn't bother me that much.

SPM didn't bother me that much either but I disliked some scenes where they just sped up the footage and it looked kinda silly.

I didn't like in Knight of the Juggernaut that some random crew of street mechanics could rebuild KITT and even add new features. I mean a normal car they could customize for sure, but KITT, a computerized supercar?! In "Goliath" Garthe and Elizabeth went throught a whole lot of trouble to get the MBS formula and in KOTJ they just "had it".

However that was just one episode and one scene, and I tend to skip the thought or I get annoyed.

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Re: Season 4

Post by Amir » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:00 am

ShadowRider wrote:In "Goliath" Garthe and Elizabeth went throught a whole lot of trouble to get the MBS formula and in KOTJ they just "had it".


They never actually put the MBS back in KITT in that episode. Obviously the assumption is it was done later (as without it KITT is too volunrable), but it's hardly a problem. Aside from the fact Devon has half of the formula, the person or people who have the other half (as there were three originally and one died) would have no problem giving it to the foundation. Garthe and co had to get it out of them in different ways...

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Re: Season 4

Post by ShadowRider » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:39 am

Oh yeah, I have heard that they didn't apply the MBS untill later but it had slipped my mind. Well that gives some consolation and KITT didn't need to be rebuilt entirely, only repaired. But ghetto-crew adding new features to KITT - convertible and SPM- is too much (even with Bonnie's supervision).....

And how long did it take them to complete that?

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Re: Season 4

Post by Skav » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:10 am

ShadowRider wrote:I didn't like much about the convertible mode since it could've been achieved to some extent with T-Tops or as Michael called it "sunroof". But as mentioned, it was't used during action scenes so it didn't bother me that much.

SPM didn't bother me that much either but I disliked some scenes where they just sped up the footage and it looked kinda silly.

I didn't like in Knight of the Juggernaut that some random crew of street mechanics could rebuild KITT and even add new features. I mean a normal car they could customize for sure, but KITT, a computerized supercar?! In "Goliath" Garthe and Elizabeth went throught a whole lot of trouble to get the MBS formula and in KOTJ they just "had it".

However that was just one episode and one scene, and I tend to skip the thought or I get annoyed.


I have to admit, that was one of the bad things about KOTJ. However, I believe that RC3 only came up with the convertible mode. He did show Michael some plans and said that "the car will do some great things", but perhaps they were just Bonnie's plans that he was showing.

I like to believe that Bonnie came up with SPM, not RC3.

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Re: Season 4

Post by occhile1984 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:17 pm

knight song...an interesting episode. No turbo boost, no ski mode, no SPM, etc...

Actually I kinda liked it. This was more of a realistic episode. As in, there was no sci-fi or any prototype of any kind. Just a neighborhood that is trying to fight against the big bad guys (who used a gun maybe once).

The story was actually good, and it was more down to earth. It kinda reminded of me an A-Team episode.

And I counted about 3-4 scenes re-used from KOJN. Just sharing...

The only disturbing thing was RC3's low cut shirt...

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Re: Season 4

Post by Lost Knight » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:57 pm

Skav wrote:I have to admit, that was one of the bad things about KOTJ. However, I believe that RC3 only came up with the convertible mode. He did show Michael some plans and said that "the car will do some great things", but perhaps they were just Bonnie's plans that he was showing.

I like to believe that Bonnie came up with SPM, not RC3.


I believe she did, especially when she told Michael she thought she could achieve a 40 percent speed increase. Convertible Mode was clearly R.C.'s idea since it was intended for recreational use.

The idea that a bunch of street mechanics could rebuild K.I.T.T. (especially after other episodes where a team of scientists were required) always bothered me, too. But the way I like to think of it is that those guys mostly 'pounded out the dents' and built a few extensions for the SPM fins, and just followed Bonnie's blueprints. After all, without the MBS, to some extent, K.I.T.T. was physically just a regular car on the outside (as painful as that is to say).

The MBS then clearly had to be applied immediately after the episode while K.I.T.T. was stationary with the SPM fins extended, and each extension had to be applied individually so his body could change modes.
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Re: Season 4

Post by Skav » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:37 am

Lost Knight wrote:
Skav wrote:I have to admit, that was one of the bad things about KOTJ. However, I believe that RC3 only came up with the convertible mode. He did show Michael some plans and said that "the car will do some great things", but perhaps they were just Bonnie's plans that he was showing.

I like to believe that Bonnie came up with SPM, not RC3.


I believe she did, especially when she told Michael she thought she could achieve a 40 percent speed increase. Convertible Mode was clearly R.C.'s idea since it was intended for recreational use.

The idea that a bunch of street mechanics could rebuild K.I.T.T. (especially after other episodes where a team of scientists were required) always bothered me, too. But the way I like to think of it is that those guys mostly 'pounded out the dents' and built a few extensions for the SPM fins, and just followed Bonnie's blueprints. After all, without the MBS, to some extent, K.I.T.T. was physically just a regular car on the outside (as painful as that is to say).

The MBS then clearly had to be applied immediately after the episode while K.I.T.T. was stationary with the SPM fins extended, and each extension had to be applied individually so his body could change modes.


That turbo boost in the juggernaut chase at the climax has bothered me ever since I found out about the MBS issue.

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Re: Season 4

Post by occhile1984 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:35 am

yeah, how could kitt land and not get damaged after landing a turbo boost jump like that???

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Re: Season 4

Post by Amir » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Lost Knight wrote:The idea that a bunch of street mechanics could rebuild K.I.T.T. (especially after other episodes where a team of scientists were required) always bothered me, too.


It was about repairing him - I guess they took care of the 'car' issues, like you said, while Bonnie dealt with the electronics - rather than rebuilding him. In Junk Yard Dog it was neither. As Bonnie said, 'It's not a question of repairing him, it's a question of recreating him'.

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Re: Season 4

Post by occhile1984 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:13 pm

I don't know what was funnier in Redemption of a Champion...Michael vs. Bernie Lomax or Don King's hair...

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Re: Season 4

Post by ShadowRider » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:04 am

I watched some season 4 episodes and I have to admit I do dislike the convertible mode. I for one like the Trans Am as T-Top or even hardtop better. The panoramic rear glass-hatch and sail B-pillars that convertible lacks are just so....well they belong in the car.

Anyway, I always loved the driving scenes at the start of almost every episode and now with it's the convertible in some of them (and I'd rather see the T-Top KITT). Luckily some episodes still have it.

I'm sure someone agrees with me on this.

On another note, I also have to say that IMO 4th season episodes are good (with some exceptions). I recall hearing that the quality of writing went downhill when the original writers left the show after 2nd season or something. But now watching those 4th season episodes they didn't seem that different from 1st or 2nd season eps (though might be due to watching 1st & 2nd seasons more).

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Re: Season 4

Post by Lost Knight » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:10 am

I've always loved Season 4, probably because I first discovered the show as a child from watching Season 4 episodes. I remember I used to get annoyed when an older episode would come on (which I could tell from the different credit sequence and lack of R.C., SPM and Convertible Mode). Even as a child at 5 years old I was more accustomed to the darker, more mature tone of the last season, and loved when SPM was used because it felt like an exciting climax for virtually every episode. (Can anyone really tell me they didn't get amped up every time they heard K.I.T.T.'s engine revving up and that rocket boost being ignited??) That same mature tone carried all the way into Knight Rider 2000, which acted so mature that the fun got completely lost altogether.

I think Season 4 gets a bad rap because as we have aged as fans, we begin to look much deeper into the production, and can suddenly start seeing things like SPM and the frequent guest-stars existing purely for a ratings boost. We start to pay attention to who writes episodes, who leaves, quality of the writing, and before you know it, you can find yourself actually not enjoying entertainment because you're too consumed with changes you're not supposed to be paying attention to in the first place.

Definitely agree on the opening driving scenes. They always were a great way to incorporate that wonderful '80s music and the California scenery.
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Re: Season 4

Post by kitt34 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:03 pm

I Thought season 4 was a major dissappointment, despite some good episodes and stunning improvement on KITT.

the stories were tiresome and some of the writing is not that good.

although season 4 is not nearly as bad as the other later knight rider revivals, but a real dissappointment.

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Re: Season 4

Post by occhile1984 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:01 pm

watching The Scent of Roses...still one of the best episodes. Probably one of the most dramatic episodes in the whole series, the darkest, and the sadest...and still to me and others will be the "official" last episode.

**It was kind of ironic that David Hasselhoff spent majority of this episode on the beach and then would find himself back there 4 years later...cough cough.**

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Re: Season 4

Post by Skav » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:29 am

occhile1984 wrote:watching The Scent of Roses...still one of the best episodes. Probably one of the most dramatic episodes in the whole series, the darkest, and the sadest...and still to me and others will be the "official" last episode.

**It was kind of ironic that David Hasselhoff spent majority of this episode on the beach and then would find himself back there 4 years later...cough cough.**


I know, I always have to laugh when David's running up the beach to KITT at the end. I get that cheesy slow mo footage of him running in the beginning Baywatch credit sequence in my head when I see that. It partially ruined a great episode! lol.

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Re: Season 4

Post by Lost Knight » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:42 am

One other thing about Season 4 I just realized: Michael Knight is more passionate and angry as ever. I find it extremely motivating. I've heard complaints about David Hasselhoff overacting. Call me biased, but whether I realized it or not as a child, it's a key component that sucked me into the series. Whether we want to admit it or not, even K.I.T.T. himself is not enough to carry the entire show on his own.
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Re: Season 4

Post by Knight Rider Archive » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:33 am

Lost Knight wrote:Whether we want to admit it or not, even K.I.T.T. himself is not enough to carry the entire show on his own.


That's been proved over and over with each attempt to bring the show back. The series owes a huge, huge debt to David Hasselhoff.

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Re: Season 4

Post by Knight-Armen » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:17 pm

That's been proved over and over with each attempt to bring the show back. The series owes a huge, huge debt to David Hasselhoff.


You just proved my point with a single sentence. Moderators, please put this statement on the front page of KRO.

Now as for the 4th season of the Knight Rider series, I can't understand why anyone would complain about it. Season 4 was the best, period. They spent over a quarter of a million dollars on refinements to the car, new actors, better writing, even Hasselhoff had cooler hair style.
Michael: Kitt what matters to me is who you are not what you look like. Sure we don't have the car so we can't turbo boost so we can't go over 200 miles an hour but it was all icing on the cake anyway

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