A few questions that have bugging me.

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Victor Kros » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:37 pm

Paul, I greatly admire your passion for expanding coverage of a series we all adore - you made a great site and an informative one. You're a great archivist and your efforts allow fans to further delve into what made this show so great. Don't tarnish those positive aspects by demonstrating a dismissive attitude towards me or using my dislike of your personality as justfication for dismissing my opposing viewpoints. It's not personal.

I responded to what you said, you stated Glen's mythology was overruled, you said what he did - "didn't make much difference" if you view his work based on just the pilot. You said that, not me and then you went off on a tangent that if I only considered the pilot canon - then everything else that followed which Foster established was "revisionist history" and not an "expansion" which I found that response rather foolish. Clearly you didn't understand where I was trying to come from - instead you dismissed my points in favor of stating your own.

I don't see anywhere where I said you said "Glen was wrong and you could do things better" - I made general statements that had nothing to do with you - it had to do with Foster, Andron, Glen, and GST and supported those with examples, clear examples. What I stated is what you believe is your opinion and I do not agree with it based on the explainations you provided to support that belief. Pleae do not put words in my mouth.

You stated, "I will say that I think the idea of Devon recruiting Bonnie for her role after the pilot story happened doesn't make much sense" - clearly I disagree and I explained why with the example regarding Foster or his people choosing not to establish she was intended to be there according to Foster's continuation of the mythology (a point which you continue to dismiss). It puts a significant flaw in your theory. We can do this song and dance forever.

I've said my view, you've said yours and clearly you have no interest in exploring futher - leave the attitude and your "experience in the fandom" at the door. We're not going to see eye to eye which can only lead to friction which would turn this discussion into an argument and I have no desire to go that route - so let's open up this discussion for others to contribute to and keep it civil.

Thanks.

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(P.S., if anyone is interested in reading some of my stories I've written to not only study story but also demonstrate what I've learned in practice (some stories are better than others), feel free to read some of my fiction here: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/valaryc/ ... _Main.html .

Before I chose to involve myself in Knight Rider,I was heavily into exploring and expanding the Star Wars universe. I am planning on writing a series of novels which I intend to publish professionally that have nothing to do with either Knight Rider, Star Wars, or anyone else's established concepts.)

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Michael Pajaro » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:02 pm

I think the issue here is one of scope - how big the Knight Rider universes are.

A universe is defined by its canon. The original series to me is one universe. And as far as canon is considered, it doesn't matter if Glen was around for 1 episode or 13 or 90. If I'm understanding you correctly Nick, you're opening up the possibility of multiple canons within the original series:

Victor Kros wrote:"what happened on screen after (Glen Larson) chose to leave would be considered "our" canon as long as it doesn't go against where Michael started."


I don't see it that way. If Robert Foster came in and revealed that all this time Michael was a Comtron spy planted to tear apart the Knight Foundation, we might hate it but it would still be canon. Knight Rider canon isn't confined by Glen's vision.

Again, I don't think anything of significance was changed throughout the series (does it really matter if Michael Long had a Trans Am? No.) But when talking in generalities about what defines an entire series, I think canon is free to evolve and sometimes undo/reverse/contradict the original creator.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:09 pm

No, I think the issue here is rather blatent for all to see - And I didn't even have a hand in it this time.... interesting.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Michael Pajaro » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:11 pm

chrisjones wrote:No, I think the issue here is rather blatent for all to see - And I didn't even have a hand in it this time.... interesting.


Don't even go there.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:14 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:
chrisjones wrote:No, I think the issue here is rather blatent for all to see - And I didn't even have a hand in it this time.... interesting.


Don't even go there.


I haven't nor do I have to, but thanks for the reminder.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Victor Kros » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:27 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:I think the issue here is one of scope - how big the Knight Rider universes are.

A universe is defined by its canon. The original series to me is one universe. And as far as canon is considered, it doesn't matter if Glen was around for 1 episode or 13 or 90. If I'm understanding you correctly Nick, you're opening up the possibility of multiple canons within the original series:

Victor Kros wrote:"what happened on screen after (Glen Larson) chose to leave would be considered "our" canon as long as it doesn't go against where Michael started."


I don't see it that way. If Robert Foster came in and revealed that all this time Michael was a Comtron spy planted to tear apart the Knight Foundation, we might hate it but it would still be canon. Knight Rider canon isn't confined by Glen's vision.

Again, I don't think anything of significance was changed throughout the series (does it really matter if Michael Long had a Trans Am? No.) But when talking in generalities about what defines an entire series, I think canon is free to evolve and sometimes undo/reverse/contradict the original creator.


- I agree with that to the extent that what is canon is what is shown on screen/heard in terms of what exists in the world of Knight Rider but it doesn't necessarily mean it holds itself true to the original concept Glen began with or what "mythology" Foster expanded with. As fans we determine what canon means to us in terms of the mythology and not so much just the propery itself and the many hands its been passed on to since its creation which created these other universes to explore within the property itself. For me, I would like to consider the original mythology of the original series as "canon" and disregard the attempts to revise or expand it beyond where it was left to conclude in 86. As poor as KR2000 might have been, I would even go as far as to say I would consider that where the "original mythology" actually ended and the others were their own seperate worlds that branched off in other directions that just so happened to cite some aspects of the original series without staying exactly true to it.

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Skav » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:59 pm

Michael Pajaro touched upon an interesting point.

How many of you actually consider KR2000 "canon"? I think that's an interesting question considering the movie contains Michael and KITT.

I am reading this discussion and I am finding this interesting. Let's keep the blows above the belt. :wink:

KR2008 was the best attempt at reviving the franchise (IMO!) and I do now consider that "canon". I'm not fond of the Mustang, and in retrospect, that car is quite ugly, especially it's dual scanner. I don't consider TKR "canon". I remember quitting watching the show after about 3 or 4 episodes.

My opinion of "canon"? What is heard of and seen on screen.

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby weeezl » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:11 pm

If too much information is setup as fact in the pilot it leaves no room for expansion in further episodes. If Pheonix was intended to be a one off then fair enough but there was obviously plans for more episodes right from the get go. I guess we all could argue all day about whats considered canon and what isn't but in my mind Knight Rider was never meant to be a show that required massive amounts of thought to figure out, it was meant as a fun show that appealed to an audience that in it's time loved cool $h1t. We would happily accept some minor inconsistencies, and most probably it wouldn't even be thought about. We had a cool futuristic car we could all geek over and the ladies had a good looking lead actor to oogle over. Everything else fell into place and it worked out really well hence why we are still so passionate about the series. I bet scrutiny 20+ years later never even came into their heads?

IMO, No point in arguing canon, the producers would tailor the story line as they felt fit to do so to further the series. Us real fans didn't really care about the story line changes so much but more about the cool car & characters that made the show such a hit in the first place so we forget the minor stuff. Knight Rider for me was the most memorable show of it's day and when I watch it now I don't care about the politics, I just love the car, the characters, the story. It's beyond awesome even this many years later.

Man, I hope the movie gets made so our next generation can feel the same way we do, It's a shame the 08 remake didn't have the impact of the original but then again how could they match a show that was so futuristic for it's time and still keep it fresh? If the movie does get made then I hope the producers spend the time researching what made the show such a hit in the first place. 8)

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Knight Rider Archive » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:57 am

Victor Kros wrote:Paul, I greatly admire your passion for expanding coverage of a series we all adore - you made a great site and an informative one. You're a great archivist and your efforts allow fans to further delve into what made this show so great. Don't tarnish those positive aspects by demonstrating a dismissive attitude towards me or using my dislike of your personality as justfication for dismissing my opposing viewpoints. It's not personal.


To quote Devon from Knight Rider 2000, "Respect cannot be dictated, it has to be earned." But, since that's not canon, I guess it doesn't apply here, right?

But it's okay, I get it now. It's not personal, but for whatever reason there is some kind of personal issue with me - so you ignore my points, take a contrary view to everything I say (even making a point to argue the exact same thing in some cases), and repeatedly imply that I'm slandering Mr. Larson and his work (even though all my posts clearly say the opposite). Wow. That's some serious stuff right there, and sends out a pretty powerful message. I guess I know what to expect should I ever take a different opinion again. I hope the rest of the community takes note, and learns from my mistake.

Victor Kros wrote:I've said my view, you've said yours and clearly you have no interest in exploring futher - leave the attitude and your "experience in the fandom" at the door. We're not going to see eye to eye which can only lead to friction which would turn this discussion into an argument and I have no desire to go that route - so let's open up this discussion for others to contribute to and keep it civil.


For the record, you telling anyone to leave their attitude at the door is a bit too rich for my tastes. I've been here for 15 years and never had a ban, a warning, or even a quiet word from the moderators. Maybe you should take a good look at your own behaviour before you criticise mine. Pathetic.

But no more. You know I never thought I'd see the day, but I've had enough. I'll just concentrate on my own site from now on. Anyone who wishes to remain in contact or needs any help with anything knows how to find me.

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:31 am

Dont leave over him, your points are more than valid and your continued involvement on this forum would be very much appreciated.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Matthew » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:32 am

Paul,

I’m sorry that you feel this way, and I hope you change your mind once you’ve had the chance to mull it over. You’re too good of a friend to the people in this community to simply be allowed to fade away without us putting up a fight. :good:

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:39 am

Matthew wrote:Paul,

I’m sorry that you feel this way, and I hope you change your mind once you’ve had the chance to mull it over. You’re too good of a friend to the people in this community to simply be allowed to fade away without us putting up a fight. :good:

Matt


+1 :good:
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Victor Kros » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:26 am

Paul,

You and I are different people, like oil and water. I could really care less what you've done in "15 years" without a ban or a warning - you've also offered little that's current (besides your site update) to the community other than a website you built and archival information about the series where as I have been in the trenches overseeing things that continue to expand this fandom in terms of artwork, events, and coordinating fans interactions with props, cast, and crew from both series of Knight Rider. Please do not lecture me about "experience" it just won't get us anywhere. With respects to "slandering" Glen, slander is spoken - print is libel and I said "in my opinion", never stated such as a fact. You disagree with my view, fine.

Proving who is the better fan or greater contributor is counter-productive and will only result in friction. We've both done great things to help fans - that's what making a difference is all about.

I question your behavior towards me, not the community. We make our choices, we pay for them and I've paid for mine in spades. I told you it's not personal but you choose to make it personal.. You've done so since the first time I've encountered you on the internet and for some reason you take great satisfaction in correcting me when I'm wrong - you're almost always there to do it. I get it, you're a tome of Knight Rider knowledge - bravo.

I gave you a sincere compliment and you chose to spit it back in my face with your continued sarcasm - fine. I don't need your respect - you chose to enter into the discussion, we had a debate but as I originally stated not an arguement. I've no desire to prove myself to or otherwise quarrel with you.

You go your way, I'll go mine and we'll leave it there. To impy that I'm the sole reason you'd choose to declare you've "had enough" with the community is unecessary. I shouldn't be your only reason for contributing to the community, negative or otherwise. Just like my recent rough seas with KRO shouldn't be a reason for me to give up entirely on Knight Rider.

Best of luck with your website updates.

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Skav » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:12 am

It's a bit cringe-worthy if somebody attempts to claim a higher status over another in regards to who has the most knowledge of a 30 year old television show. Those people need perspective!

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He-man, Thundercats and Transformers

Postby chrisjones » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:26 am

Skav wrote:It's a bit cringe-worthy if somebody attempts to claim a higher status over another in regards to who has the most knowledge of a 30 year old television show. Those people need perspective!


Tell me about it, by the way my He-Man collection is way bigger than yours... :good:
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby magictorch » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:45 pm

why is it that valued members are not going to post and leave, valued members that have more information to share than the ones who cause the bad smell, what does Nick Nugget have to do to get a ban.



Paul it will be so sad if you leave this forum because of one person that attacks the rest of the posting members



Captain Nick, can I ask why you as a fan which had the saying attached one man can make a difference, why do you feel you have to fight with every member here



Maybe its time to show the members of the cast and crew really what a jerk off you are! I know this will be my last post as I know I will be banned, but just think of what you are saying to others, you ARE JUST A FAN! your nothing special, not a VIP, nothing



does Glen A Larson give you his permissions to post in such a manor, maybe its time to ask him???





This is all rather upsetting for everyone! STOP IT!!! and stop posting 4 page boring arguments to try dig yourself out of a hole.

I have countless PMs and Emails saying thank you for saying this in public, you have 1 or 2 followers and my guess is they want the Glen Larson contact too, does that exist? get him on here to say yes I agree with everything nick has said, then I will say sorry to you in public

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby magictorch » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:46 pm

And to add, how come SO MANY people have this same opinion of you? are they all wrong???

think about that!

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Skav » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:52 pm

chrisjones wrote:
Skav wrote:It's a bit cringe-worthy if somebody attempts to claim a higher status over another in regards to who has the most knowledge of a 30 year old television show. Those people need perspective!


Tell me about it, by the way my He-Man collection is way bigger than yours... :good:


:mrgreen:

Well, I got a bigger Thundercats collection than your He-Man. :twisted:

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Michael Pajaro » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:57 pm

magictorch wrote:Maybe its time to show the members of the cast and crew really what a jerk off you are! I know this will be my last post as I know I will be banned


Maybe you did learn something after all. Yeah, you're done here.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Michael Pajaro » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:00 pm

Victor Kros wrote:I could really care less what you've done in "15 years" without a ban or a warning


Well that's kind of the problem, isn't it... you SHOULD care.
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:01 pm

Skav wrote:
chrisjones wrote:
Skav wrote:It's a bit cringe-worthy if somebody attempts to claim a higher status over another in regards to who has the most knowledge of a 30 year old television show. Those people need perspective!


Tell me about it, by the way my He-Man collection is way bigger than yours... :good:


:mrgreen:

Well, I got a bigger Thundercats collection than your He-Man. :twisted:


Thundercats blow goats! :lol:
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby weeezl » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:12 pm

Ya'll aint got $h1t on my Transformer collection. :mrgreen:

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:15 pm

weeezl wrote:Ya'll aint got $h1t on my Transformer collection. :mrgreen:


Image
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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby Skav » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:21 pm

chrisjones wrote:Thundercats blow goats! :lol:


It's a good job that I'm not into Thundercats afterall, then. :mrgreen:

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Re: A few questions that have bugging me.

Postby chrisjones » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:24 pm

Skav wrote:
chrisjones wrote:Thundercats blow goats! :lol:


It's a good job that I'm not into Thundercats afterall, then. :mrgreen:


Why are you a Image
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