Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

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Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Shadowy Flight » Sun May 31, 2009 3:46 pm

Up to this point, I wanted to keep my opinions and reservations about the new KR to myself as I didn't want to add fuel to the fire to add negative comments to the new KR during such a critical time for the show, but since now it doesn't look like the show is coming back, I thought it's safe to ask questions like this. It just seemed they put alot more effort into the old series (despite its flaws of seeing miniatures, stunt doubles, mistakes or cast and crew in the shot). But it just looked like they pulled all the stops for the overall production value. There's something very "camcordy" about the new series (even though there are hardly any technical flaws or difficulties). The old one felt like they broke out the Hollywood Panavision cameras.It felt very "Hollywood". The new one feels very "tv". Something about it just felt very epic back then. Was it because I was 10? But then I ask 10 year olds in my class and they felt goosebumps when they saw an old episode, but nothing when they watched the new one. I guess, I'm trying to ask, do our "tastebuds" in television change. Or are we spoonfed things nowadays and "forced" to like something? I don't feel I naturally enjoy the things I used to enjoy as a kid. Is it all in my head that it was more fun to buy a record, tape or CD than to download it? Or is it just in my head that Popeye's Fried Chicken used to taste better?
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by DevonStyles » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:02 pm

The old KR was made in the real world... The new KR was made inside a computer :lol:
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Crumbling Down » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:46 pm

The original had real stunts done and not all cgi. When you saw a car doing something cool like jumping over a truck, flipping upside down or exploding 9 out of 10 times it actually was. The only time they "faked" it was with the KITT models. Maybe there is something wrong with me but I would rather watch the kitt models over some of the cgi in the newer show. I still get that feeling like I did when I first saw KR when I was young. It takes me to a place few shows can. While watching the newer KR that feeling did not return. I think to answer your question yes the original KR was more high budget than the new. Actually doing stunts, setting up ramps, hiring stunt drivers, repairing damaged cars was expensive. CGi graphics I am sure isn't cheap however I can guess that they are a lot cheaper than actually performing the stunt in real life. I would have to say that the original KR grabbed us and pulled us in because of all the cool real stunts they did and all the cast members of the original helped seal the deal. At one point during watching the new kr I felt as if I was watching a soft core porno and that the show was designed for teenagers.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Shadowy Flight » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:56 pm

Oh my God, thank you so much Crumbling Down :good: , that's what the acting of the new KR was like. I couldn't put my finger on it (no pun intended...ok intended) that it was like skin-amax acting without the nudity. And I agree with the poster above as well.....................we're watching a computer video game. Thanks guys, otherwise I thought I was imagining things.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by MikeBKnight » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:02 pm

I know exactly what you mean. I didn't get that old fuzzy feeling when watching the new show, either. The new KR had WAY too many "green screen"/CGI shots, and it showed IMO. The old show was hands down a classic in every way. True, you saw the stuntmen at times, models, etc. but to me, that just added to the fun of the show. Even now, I still can't get enough of the old KR series. It's just something you can watch over, and over, and the episodes never get old. As was mentioned before, CGI wasn't even around back in the 80's (or, if it was, they didn't use it that much in KR), and I actually prefer the real deal to CGI any day of the week !

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by blowersho » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:56 pm

I agree with everybody, the old show was done with a "in your face, give it 110%" attitude which is why we all loved it, they made sure KITT was bigger than life. In today's world the task of making a car into a believable character is much more difficult, the talent required to do this is rare.

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by whet » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:14 am

The old Knight Rider was better in evrey way I can think of.
The new one was just done without anyone seeming to care much, it's no wonder season 2 never happened..

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Chief Oddball » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:04 pm

I got the same "vibe" as Shadowy Flight and I think the reason why KR:TOS felt so "Hollywood" is because, as others have mentioned, it was actually shot on film using real cars, people and situations. Then again, so were most shows back then -- take Airwolf, for example. Can you imagine what that show would look like today on a relatively low budget? Like an Xbox game.

So much of TV these days (not just the new KR) looks "glossed up" like a retouched photo. Sometimes it looks TOO good. Other times it looks fake, like the old model shots looked in KR:TOS, but a different kind of fake -- like '90s 3DO videogame fake. Personally, I'd prefer the models.

CGI is fairly easy to produce these days, and much less expensive computer equipment is needed today than, say, 10-15 years ago. That doesn't mean that any kid with an HP Pavilion can make good CGI. I studied 3D modeling and animation, worked with software like Maya and Softimage on SGI machines, and I wouldn't call myself anywhere near skilled enough to create television-grade CG. But TV budgets often don't permit the kind of quality work that allows us to properly suspend disbelief.

Personally, I think the new KR took CGI over the top. I guess I can see why Ford didn't want them to jump a Shelby GT500KR over a freight train, but they had to shoot Mike and the Mustang on a green screen when he was just driving down the road chatting with Sarah! It's too much. I want a camera truck or a cam rig on the car, a closed road and some actual wind in the actor's hair. Anything else just looks like I'm watching virtual reality, and I can't get invested in what's happening because it's obvious that it isn't really happening at all.

Perhaps knowing so much about how this technology works makes it easier for me to spot, and thus easier for me to be irritated by it. But I'll always take the cheesiness of the '80s series with real life camera work as opposed to abundant green screen and CG tomfoolery.

Man, I sound really old. And at 29, maybe I am.

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Shadowy Flight » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:50 am

And did anyone feel like David Hasselhoff was REALLY Michael Knight? Its not that he's such a good actor, but it was a role created FOR him. Believe me when I say I'm not taking his side, because when David Hasselhoff appeared in the new Knight Rider '08, it felt like it wasn't Michael Knight. It felt like David Hasselhoff playing Michael Knight. Must've been the cinematography. At first I thought it was the suit, but Michael Knight wore suits before in the old KR and it still felt like Michael Knight.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Skav » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:15 am

Shadowy Flight wrote:And did anyone feel like David Hasselhoff was REALLY Michael Knight? Its not that he's such a good actor, but it was a role created FOR him. Believe me when I say I'm not taking his side, because when David Hasselhoff appeared in the new Knight Rider '08, it felt like it wasn't Michael Knight. It felt like David Hasselhoff playing Michael Knight. Must've been the cinematography. At first I thought it was the suit, but Michael Knight wore suits before in the old KR and it still felt like Michael Knight.


I think that could be due to a few things: He acted better in that one scene than the whole series of the original show, he wasn't his chirpy self as he was at a funeral and his voice was a lot more deeper.

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Garthe Knight » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:56 am

Nah, they just didn't spend the most of their budget on a KITTcave where the car can ride in a rollercoster and they didn't build so many ugly attack mode cars. :roll:

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by MR2NR » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:22 am

Look at it this way it's like KRO was made with an oven and KR08 was made with a microwave. It just doesn't taste as good but it get's done quicker with less energy. Directors are going to do things easier all the time and especially with the financial lacking of NBC you can bet CGI is here to stay. Transformers looks like it was made with an convention oven. Faster, better, but more expensive.

The sad thing is they could have done it retro and probably had a grand slam hit but it was too much of a risk and GST was too F&F too let it go that way :(.

Davids old....that's all i gotta say about that :).
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:14 am

Kids today are more sophisticated than they were in the 80s. Still, I don't thinks kids "saw" the CGI in the new show. They just saw a cool car doing cool things. It was just like back in 1982, when kids didn't see the sped-up footage or the model cars or the hidden back-seat drivers. I was already in high school when Knight Rider came out and I can tell you I DID see those things. The sped-up footage especially drove me crazy. I also wasn't fond of all of the recycled footage of KITT driving down the same road all the time.

I don't know what the relative budgets were between the two shows in adjusted dollars, and the TV universe has changed so much that I don't think you can make a meaningful comparison.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by trissybabes » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:35 am

Michael Pajaro wrote:Kids today are more sophisticated than they were in the 80s. Still, I don't thinks kids "saw" the CGI in the new show. They just saw a cool car doing cool things. It was just like back in 1982, when kids didn't see the sped-up footage or the model cars or the hidden back-seat drivers. I was already in high school when Knight Rider came out and I can tell you I DID see those things. The sped-up footage especially drove me crazy. I also wasn't fond of all of the recycled footage of KITT driving down the same road all the time.


Hmm, I'd say that kids today WOULD notice that stuff more. A lot of the visual effects obviously were effects in KR08 and stood out a mile. With all the access kids have to games and movies etc. they would be able to tell cheaper effects shots. Just as I did with KR82.

I too was at school when KR first aired in the UK. Me and my mates would obsess over the details of each episode next day - including as you say - sped up footage, reused stock footage and model shots.

Same went with Airwolf, continuity errors over combat mode drove me nuts personally, then there were shots where the rotors had "2 shades" and then "4 shades" (where they'd again sped it up slightly).

The casual observer doesn't really notice the details but the fan most definitely DOES.

However, IIRC as Z00story pointed out, it's the FX shots that you DON'T notice - things like removing blemises or marks from actor's skin, or an unsightly building in the background that would stand out a mile otherwise.

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by DevonStyles » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:22 pm

Even the action in the kr08 movie was 10x better then anything in the new series. They diden't want an action series. What they wanted was a love story between mike and sara with an occasional car chase to catch the bad guy.

Justin (no offense to him) just was not the right actor for the role. I mean c'mon no reactions for turbo boosts. No Whooos or anything. Look at the Karr battle. Kitt is summersaulting from getting hit and Mike never even raises his voice.... It was just bad all the way around. I can list many more examples as well.

Regardless of what justin said he might have loved KR when he was a kid but he was not acting like he was in an action show. To me it seemed like another job.

The Hoff seen the role and made it his.

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:44 am

DevonStyles wrote:Justin (no offense to him) just was not the right actor for the role. I mean c'mon no reactions for turbo boosts. No Whooos or anything.


I have to disagree there. I think one of the strongest selling points of both the the 2-hour movie and the series and was the casting of Justin. It was all about the little things; the way he would roll his eyes or show his frustration when dealing with KITT. This is a show about a talking car so it can't be taken to seriously, and Justin had a really good sense of... how should i put it.... "restrained comedic timing." It wasn't slapstick, but he was acknowledging that the show itself was ridiculous.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Knight007 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:47 am

but I think "Devon" do have a point here.
looking back, in the original series, Michel did go back in his seat when he was using Turbo boost, and he was shouting sometimes when he was having a big fight or calling KITT to make sure he is alright after hiting a missile or something.
Although I like Justin in KR08, but he wasnt doing alot of these things!! did he??? Image :kitt:

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by trissybabes » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:10 am

Knight007 wrote:but I think "Devon" do have a point here.
looking back, in the original series, Michel did go back in his seat when he was using Turbo boost, and he was shouting sometimes when he was having a big fight or calling KITT to make sure he is alright after hiting a missile or something.
Although I like Justin in KR08, but he wasnt doing alot of these things!! did he??? Image :kitt:


That's more often then not down to the episode's Director rather than actor.

I thought Justin was one of the strongest elements of KR08. He got the balance of credibility in his situation just right. He looks great on the screen and seemed to settle into it all very well.

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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by DevonStyles » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:44 am

I dunno to me the Original just seemed so much more natural. For what Justin did have in one area he lacked in others. Just my personal opinion. To me it seems like he never got rid of the soap actor. The Hoff did and ran with it.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:37 am

Hasselhoff did press back into the seat during turbo boost. WAY back.

Maybe it's fair to say that Hasselhoff over-acted as Michael Knight, and Justin under-acted as Mike Knight?
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by Crumbling Down » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:21 pm

I think the hoff did a great job of reacting to the turbo boost. I mean come on the car is probably going from 20 mph to 220mph in a split second. that would throw you back. He almost always seemed suprised when it happened to because that is something you never really get used to. I think david did a great job acting, when he was supposed to be excited and yelling he was excited and yelling and you could feel it.
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Re: Was the OLD Knight Rider more High budget than the NEW?

Post by trissybabes » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:29 am

I wonder if Justin saw Hasselhoff's OTT interpretation of it all and decided to approach it low key?

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