What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:23 am

I don't see where the confusion is other than confusing recognition to an extent popularity, with the number of fans each show has and this topic going down the toilet because of it. Recognition, popularity and fan base are not all one in the same, someone can recognize something yet not be a fan of it or even seen a single episode. The argument going on here is stupid because like I said, they are not all one in the same, as almost everyone else who hasn't turned this into a high strung fanboy wank argument of "mines bigger than yours" understood.

The question was which one was more recognized around the world such as if you just went up to random people on the street and ask them either if they've heard of "Doctor Who" or "Knight Rider" and what you'd think more people would knowledge that they've heard of it. As well as if you were to show a picture to also random people on the street of something iconic from each series such as KITT and the TARDIS. How many people would either KNOW what it is by name or just flat out recognize it, even if they couldn't remember that name. Same deal with Hasselhoff or one of the many actors who played the Doctor or a piece of music. How long something has been around or been on the air which, let's be fair, KR has been on the air for more than just the four years of its initial run as Doctor Who has for around 45 years, really doesn't matter. There are shows out now that have been around and on for longer than either that the general public wouldn't have a clue of.

It's not about fan base size because I'M SURE that KR would be blown out of the water due to all the things that create a fanbase, it's about which one is more recognizable and ingrained into the public conscience and just because something might have a large one, it doesn't mean the public has heard of it or gives a ****.

I'm just going to say it, in the US I'm willing to wager that a lot more people wouldn't recognize the TARDIS than wouldn't recognize KITT, hell I'd bet a lot of them would think of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and the phone booth from that one movie (the sequel doesn't matter) before they would ever come close to thinking of Doctor Who.

Obviously in the UK where Doctor Who's main audience is and been a staple of mainstream television there for decades and is a institution of its own would certainly have a larger awareness and recognition, but I'm sure plenty of those same people would recognize KITT as well. There's no rule that one can recognize one and that would cancel out the other. The amount of crap sold on eBay doesn't matter either because those are things that are sought out by fans, not some random person. I think it would be foolish to say Knight Rider would beat a home grown show. It would be like walking around with a photo of Gordon Brown and Barack Obama and asking random people if they know who they are. Actually, in this case there might be more people in the UK that would actually recognize Obama due to just how much damn attention he gets. Maybe Joe Biden would be better. :lol: In the US though, it certainly wouldn't be a contest, especially when many people still wouldn't know who Joe Biden or really most VPs from a picture or any other politicians other than the President and sometimes even that's shaky.

In my OPINION I would and already have said that I'd bet more people would recognize something from Knight Rider before they would Doctor Who. Though the number of people who would recognize neither would probably be higher.


EDIT: An example that just came to me that I remembered. It's like many years ago where it was reported that Mario became more widely recognized than Mickey Mouse around the world. Does that mean more people played a Mario game or watched a Mario cartoon than a Mickey Mouse one? Of course not, but even though Mickey had been around for decades and decades before Mario, more people knew who the character was, it doesn't mean Mario (and the games) had or has more fans than Disney's mascot. It just entered into the public conscious around the world in a way Mickey for some reason, didn't.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:46 am

UGH! Curse you edit time limit! I just did a quick search on my edit with the Mario/Mickey Mouse thing and it was only a national survey done 19 years ago and only with children. But still though, it doesn't matter how long something has been around it matters is how the public takes notice of it.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Skav » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:11 am

Mike, I apologise but I see no lecturing between us, merely a debate with some heated exchanges.



Victor Kros wrote:Skav, Stop placing words into my mouth that I did not say. To be quite honest, your "movie/tv" examples outside of Dr. Who/Knight Rider tend to be inaccurate (like Power Ranger, Terminator 2, Star Wars etc.) and I think you have to accept at this point, you don't have all the answers and therefore don't have all the facts.


Victor, please don't try to purposely grate on me by saying my other movie comparisons are innacurate. You state that in a way that it's also fact. You neither said "I think" or suggest that was your opinion otherwise. When it comes to T2 and The Crow (both movies that I am a hardcore fan of and have done extensive research on) I like to think my Cult Classic term is correct when it applies to The Crow and an outright classic when applied to T2. That's going off topic but I felt I needed to point this out. I think it was a sensible comparison - both KR and Dr. Who are both classics but one on a smaller scale, the other on a bigger one. I suppose you will also call that my opinion only but I don't really need to state IMO every time do I? I am willing to stop with the cheap shots if you are.

- Knight Rider still has new merchandise being released, it's just not as broadcasted or numerous. As stated before Ertle has re-released the 1:18 Knight 2000 due to demand. Japan continues to release new Aoshima K.I.T.T.s. and Mio came out with a KR themed GPS, therefore your point about Universal being "finished" with releasing new merchandise for KR, is invalid. Furthermore the, Knight Rider: The Complete Series dvd box set which came out October 2008 continues to sell.


If you really want to play the mechandise card, then it does not really mean much as both shows are classics and both will have merchandise for the fans. It doesn't prove KR is bigger than Dr. Who. The 1:18 KITT demands only came into effect after they sold the first batch. Was there a demand for a Ertle 1:18 KITT before it even came out? The Series boxset will continue to sell, that's not proof of anything when compared to Dr. Who. The A-team sets also continue to sell. Japan are heavy on KR merchandise, which strongly indicates it has a massive following there. You may have got your answer to your geographical question in regards to that country.


Television shows and movies prior to Knight Rider did not feature cars that were both controlled by a A.I., (not "living" - Herbie was not a computer or AI) and jumped without the need for ramps (from a story standpoint) or functions like Ski Mode that happen at the press of a button (again, story standpoint). You could however claim that advanced features in a car did exist, mostly in James Bond films which as Glen stated were part of his inspiration for Knight Rider. Based on these points, I would disagree that Knight Rider was not the first of its kind. Again the rest is your OPINION, not fact.


Potato - Potahto. That's nitpicking as to whether the cars are "living" or not. I even think some other KR fans would have a bone to pick with that statement. And I said there were movies before KR that had "living" cars (note the speech marks which suggests that I don't care to get technical in whatever you want to call it), not that KR was a show that was a first of its kind. It had many elements that did make it a first. But KITT was the centre piece of the show but it wasn't exactly original as other movies had cars with advanced tech.

Lastly, I don't deny that my last few points were my opinion. They are.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:53 pm

Skav wrote: I am willing to stop with the cheap shots if you are.


That's exactly my point. There shouldn't be any cheap shots. Debate the topic, and only the topic. Thanks.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:10 pm

That's it? He's in clear violation of your second warning by continuing to request my response and you're just going to give Skav a slap on the hand? You publically lecture me with a full on paragraph and you give him one sentence? Really? That's really balanced Mike.

You and I both know that if I continue to respond to this guy it's going to get out of hand because he's already proven he can't have a civil discussion at this point.

So because he states this:

"Mike, I apologise but I see no lecturing between us, merely a debate with some heated exchanges. "


Then continues to defy you by addressing me (by name mind you), because he put it that statement at the beginning, it's ok? I put I agree with you in the end of my reply and that makes me the one at fault?

You know what? I'm going to save you the frustration as mod, save him the temptation of continuing to defy your warnings and take this matter into my own hands and just place him on ignore. My "old ways" would be to continue to debate with him and disect his credibility until he has nothing left.

I'm not taking that road anymore on KRO and I want people to understand that as well. Whatever conclusions people have about me based on my past conduct in this community does not hold water today. I came back to respect the community and its moderation but I also came back to be part of the community, not against it.

Disagreeing is human nature and it will always be there no matter who you are or how you choose to handle it. It's a fact that someone out there will not like your for whatever reason. The world isn't a perfect place and neither is the internet. If people don't like me for whatever reason, they can ignore me. The rest of the people who support me (not always agree with me) are people I call friends, those are the people I really care about, they make a difference and they know who they are.

As I stated to you in private I don't want any friction between us, especially at KRF. Some guy on the board who doesn't have the respect or self discipline to hold a civil discussion is not worth my time or effort to linger over.

If he wants it so badly, he can have the last word.

Bottom line is I kept my word, I'm a man of integrity and I always have been. I'm not going to break it by responding to him. This is an open discussion about the topic raised, it's not about him or I. He can debate to his hearts content with other people because if he continues to debate with me, I risk angering you further or "reverting to my old ways".

Problem solved.

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Last edited by Victor Kros on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by rwmu » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:12 pm

A fascinating discussion which is creating some tempers on both sides. Also it doens't pose the more usual question of which is better

I think you basic problem is the question.

As far as I can see you've eliminated all the quantifiable definiations of recognition.

So what do you define as recognition ?
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:24 pm

rwmu wrote:A fascinating discussion which is creating some tempers on both sides. Also it doens't pose the more usual question of which is better

I think you basic problem is the question.

As far as I can see you've eliminated all the quantifiable definiations of recognition.

So what do you define as recognition ?


- I already answered this question. I didn't eliminate the other definations, I said they are not the question. They are all factors in answering what regonition is as it applies to the topic presented.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Matthew » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:27 pm

Nick,

You say your old ways are a thing of the past, yet you continue to question the way that issues such as this are being dealt with by the moderation team, in spite of you being the instigator of this thread’s attitudinal degeneration.

Rather than attempting to sidestep the issues that have caused this, and place the spotlight onto the actions of others, perhaps it would be prudent of you to examine your own actions, as your initial response to Skav was rude at best, and those that followed were of an inherently arrogant and condescending nature, which is something I expect to have been caused by the fact you’ve been confronted by someone who’s as secure in their own thoughts and beliefs as you are in yours.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by B.R.O » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:35 pm

Here in finland they never showed Dr. Who untill the remake series ("that spun off" the show Torchwood) which didn't really attract that many viever (Dr. Who nor Torchwood) despite they started showing them pretty soon after they were shown in the UK. I guess less than half of my friends have ever even hear of Doctor Who and even less would recognize the doctory by looking at pictures of the actors who have portrayed him over the years, or that redicculous-looking-time-and-space-traveling-police-phonebooth-which-name-I-can't-remember-right-now.

On the other hand if you show them a picutre of the hoff or KI2T they'll immeditely recognize them, even if they weren't born when the show ran (which actually applies to me) in the U.S.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:06 pm

I did not instigate this, he posted his arrogance way before I replied to him (my reply even pointed out his disrespect) and the posts stated support that. I will not accept the blame for this situation and when I am being treated unfairly, I will voice my opinion accordingly.

On this particular call, it was and continues to be unfair to me and I am voicing my right to question the "solution" reached, especially when I have abided by said warning where as the "instigator" of the conflict has neglected to heed such warnings. Why can't you see this?

I've eaten a lot of crow in the past, especially for the sake of peace and harmony but this time I simply will not stand for being painted as the black sheep when I am clearly the victim here, not the cause. Accusing me of reverting to my old ways in this situation is entirely out of context and insulting at this point.

This is out right rediculous that even when I try to do something right on these boards and express my educated opinion like everyone else, somehow people find ways to twist my words around to say that ol VK is wrong, he's just being arrogant or he's being argumentative or whatever. Maybe it's because my words tend to carry more weight and I dislike having to dumb things down for certain people, I really don't know.

Understand that in my view respect is a two way street, when I'm disrespected and I CONTINUE TO BE disrespected, I tend to get upset about it. I'm human, I make mistakes and I've owned up to those mistakes - this matter is not my mistake to own up to.

You want to use this as some basis to lock the thread go right ahead, I'm used to that too.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Skav » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:51 pm

I have written a PM to Victor in an effort to sort this situation out privately as I feel this has been blown a bit out of proportion.

I see no reason for the thread to be closed as it would be unfair to everyone else to debate the topic at hand but it's in the moderators hands.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by rwmu » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:37 am

This subject needs more study, think I'll do some reasearch.

So far we seem to have US, Germany and Findland for Knight Rider and UK, Australia, New Zeland and Canada for Doctor Who.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:32 am

To the moderators and members of KRO,

I would like to take this one opportunity here (of my own free will) to apologize if my difference of opinion with Skav has caused anyone any undue stress. What should have been an open discussion evolved into an uncessary heated exchange of views primarily based upon miscommunication and personal beliefs.

Things were said and decisions were made that could have been handled better. People make mistakes and I'm no different. I will not state that what I felt was wrong but I will conceed that how I chose to handle things was not right.

Skav and I have reached a peaceful compromise to this situation. No one will be ignored at this point in time.

Mike and Matthew, even though we don't always see eye to eye on things please know that I respect you. If you have a concern about my conduct, I ask you please consult me in private first. Often we can find an alternative solution that does not involve public involvement.

Thanks.

I invite people to continue to explore this topic if they so choose. Remember this is an open discussion.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by rwmu » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:59 pm

Well that was humbling I knew that Doctor Who was big, I'm from the UK so more that aware of the effect it has on my fellow countrymen, but not the Scale of it World Wide.

First things first we're all quite proud of the is Model KITTs and Converted KITTs etc that the fans build, it’s like nothing compared to what these guys do, check this out

http://www.projectdalek.co.uk/files/index.html

And that’s one example only. I think we've missed what raises Doctor Who above all else and its one word "Dalek" I'm beginning to think that you could have Pics of the Doctors actors and even the TARDIS and take them round the world and people might not know them, take a Dalek picture and the answers different.

On to other recognition Steven Spielberg is a fan of the show and has been quoted as saying "the world would be a poorer place without Doctor Who".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgr ... truleoutdo

The Current version is showing in 42 countries, still looking for country stats on the first run bet I'm guessing it will be at least the same if not more

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... -21331115/

I'm guessing after 26 seasons for its first run and 4 season and still going for the current run I should have expected it but not on the scale that it is.

Is Knight Rider more recognisable I'd like to say yes but I’d be deluding myself, these three easy to find examples really put the points for Doctor Who. I'm sure I could dig alot more but I think I'll depress myself.

Sorry Victor but I've learned today the Doctor Who is a Phenomenon not just a TV show, and I don't think Knight Rider comes close, I beginning to wish I'd not looked into this.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by J_Spaced » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:34 pm

rwmu wrote:Sorry Victor but I've learned today the Doctor Who is a Phenomenon not just a TV show, and I don't think Knight Rider comes close, I beginning to wish I'd not looked into this.


Embrace it. Learn to love the Who. :good:

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Toni Nummela » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Google search stats for Knight Rider and Doctor Who:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=knight+r ... doctor+who

Interesting stuff, especially the "Languages" section.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by rwmu » Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:36 am

Never seen those graphs before but they do make intresting reading/veiwing (pretty depressing reading too).

Apart from one major spike which is around the time they announced the remake and a much smaller one around the time movie aired Knight Rider still under performs Doctor Who year on year, I used the drop downs for the country stats and Doctor Who was still bigger apart from even those spikes in the USA.

Since we can't actually go out on the streets of the whole world with pics of icon from each show, I think the level of internet traffic might be a good approximation.

Willing to listen to opinions (desperatre to find proof against).
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by wyzard53 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:49 am

I'd like to add to the post about the Daleks being recognized. I also think that specific generations of the Doctor would be more recognizable than others. For example, Tom Baker. He was the first one I saw, and also was the longest running incarnation. The ridiculously long scarf (I had one knitted for me for a halloween costume based on the pattern BBC released once) is another easily identified icon. It's really a very complex question Victor asked. YOu say "Doctor Who" and people look at you, then you show the TARDIS, or a Dalek, or maybe one of the Doctors, and then you get the " Oh, yeah, NOW I remember" reaction. Knight Rider also has some of this. Show them Hasselhoff, and they might say, Wasn't he on Baywatch?" Show them KITT and they get the same " Oh, yeah, NOW I remember" reaction. Personally, I'd like to see them both keep rolling. I'm one of those, and this is another category, that would easily recognize both series from pretty much whatever you show me. And lets not forget the themes. Both Doctor Who and Knight Rider have (I think) instantly recognizable themes. You know them from within the first couple notes.

Oh yes, and for those who wonder, I'm still indebted favor wise to the creator of my scarf. I certainly didn't have the patience or skill to create it. It's part of my collection, along with my genuine RC version of KITT (MK I) and the original DVD's. And yes, I've corrupted my son with BOTH series. See I'm equal opportunity. :D

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by jup » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:20 am

Indeed, a good question.

Could say that I've grown up with Knight Rider. Recorded every episode to VHS in a semi-orderly mannor and bought the DVD packages, anyway. I know a fair deal about the show and it's spin offs.

However...I've barely caught more then a single digit's worth of Dr. Who episodes. (PBS and a couple VHS cassettes I managed to stumble across.) Wouldn't recognize the actors. But, the booth that transcends...something, (time/space?) the fact that it has a huge room(s) that is disproportionate to the outside, the concept of a deadly robot species named The Daelecks played a special starring role and the theme song are well known to me, despite next to never having actually seen the show.

To know so much about a show that I've next to never seen, says a lot. So, am I truly qualified to even try and answer this question? Probably not. But, I consider Dr. Who to be something that goes and goes like Bond and Knight Rider to be a show that comes back like Star Trek. (Only, Trek has a far better survival rate for viewers/seasons.)

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by rwmu » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:20 pm

Well after ten days I think we can probably answer the orignal posters question with Doctor Who.

Even though I'm no fan of Doctor Who and I am a fan of KR in all its forms (even TKR) it is obvious what the real situation is.

Lets face it even the current version of Knight Rider nods in Doctor Whos direction by having one of the cast dress up as a Doctor Who companion, Captain Jack Harkness who is also the main star in the Doctor Who adult spin-off Torchwood.

Any more comments are of course welcome, and it would be nice to hear something from the OP.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by The Pursuing Bear » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:48 pm

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster.

The whole "which is more recognized" question is probably impossible to answer without a proper poll of randomly sampled individuals across the world... which is somewhat unlikely :)

However, I would say to any KR fans out there who aren't familiar with Doctor Who, it's well worth checking out.

If there's ever a program that embodies the spirit of "One Man Can Make a Difference", it's Doctor Who.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by jup » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:56 am

The Pursuing Bear wrote:However, I would say to any KR fans out there who aren't familiar with Doctor Who, it's well worth checking out.

If there's ever a program that embodies the spirit of "One Man Can Make a Difference", it's Doctor Who.


Just take this one word of caution into heart before viewing. There's an old saying that Dr. Who is an acquired taste. People either love the show or hate it. For some reason, there's not a whole lot of middle ground, as I've come to understand.

Apart of Dr. Who's roots are based in the limited budget of the BBC. This can make for some rather "interesting" stretches of the imagination on certain visuals. There could also be issues on some of the writing. I did have the opportunity to listen to a Dr. Who script on tape, once. Was dreadfully dull and I hope it's an exception over a regularity on how well their writing staff was.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by knightendo77 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:33 am

jup wrote:
The Pursuing Bear wrote:However, I would say to any KR fans out there who aren't familiar with Doctor Who, it's well worth checking out.

If there's ever a program that embodies the spirit of "One Man Can Make a Difference", it's Doctor Who.


Just take this one word of caution into heart before viewing. There's an old saying that Dr. Who is an acquired taste. People either love the show or hate it. For some reason, there's not a whole lot of middle ground, as I've come to understand.

Apart of Dr. Who's roots are based in the limited budget of the BBC. This can make for some rather "interesting" stretches of the imagination on certain visuals. There could also be issues on some of the writing. I did have the opportunity to listen to a Dr. Who script on tape, once. Was dreadfully dull and I hope it's an exception over a regularity on how well their writing staff was.


That's obviously going by the old series from the 60's to the 80's. The new series (still following on from the old one), begun in 2003, has a good budget and great production values. But most importantly it has the best writing of any TV show anywhere! It's gone from being a hugely popular 60's show, to a cult one in the 80's to a phenomenon in the present day. Today's scripts are miles better than the old ones (although some of the classics are still superb I hasten to add and are very rich in developing the history of Doctor Who) and every year the show wins awards - every year since it's come back it's won "Best Drama" at the National Television Awards, which are voted for by the public, and soaps aside it's the most watched drama on British TV.

No need for caution, new Who is awesome, the love it or hate it mentality ended back in the 80's :)
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by rwmu » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:53 pm

Took the advice given about, watched the Doctor Who special over Easter.

I did enjoy it, reminded me of pitch black a bit and possibly Tomb Raider.
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