What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

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What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:40 pm

Greetings,

I've been having a little discussion on another forum community and it has raised an interesting question so I wanted to ask everyone out there for their opinion. I believe that a show's recognition (and to some extent popularity) is partially dependent upon on region, especially where it is made and how a studio chooses to handle the property. There is no question that the BBC has marketed and merchandised their properties better than Universal or NBC has with Knight Rider. No one disputes that Dr. Who has more episodes or property spin-offs in production.

With that being said there is a question over which property is more recognized and "more popular". So I invite you to post your opinion about which property you feel personally is more popular or recognized to you between Dr. Who and Knight Rider.

Which do you feel you know more about? If you could go to a convention, which would you prefer? Do you recognize Dr. Who characters at conventions more than you do a Trans Am as K.I.T.T.?

I'm not going to turn this into a debate or anything, I am genuinely curious to hear your thoughts and opinions about the matter. I'm sure people will have opposing view points but let's keep it respectable eh?

It would also help if you could post the country you're in as this is also a question of regional recognition.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by weeezl » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:04 pm

I'd shoot for Dr Who here in the UK being more recognized than KR, as for popularity I would'nt have a clue. Me personally? well I think you already know that answer :)

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Lost Knight » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:07 pm

This is not a biased opinion coming from a Knight Rider fan, but I would go with KR. Personally, while I've heard the name Dr. Who mentioned occasionally, I have no idea what the show is about, nor have I ever seen an episode. KR does seem to have a universal worldwide appeal (partially thanks to David Hasselhoff) not to mention an entire community of replica owners, classic toy lines and one of the most popular televison theme songs of the '80s, which has been sampled numerous times in hip-hop songs.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Mr. M » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:00 pm

In the UK, Dr. Who. In the US probably KR, but that's only a guess. I'm basing it off of me who only learned of Dr. Who a few years ago and started watching repeats of the new series then.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Rockatteer » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:11 pm

World wide I would say Dr Who.

It's been around since 1963. I don't know when it first appeared in the US but in other countries it was a family classic long before KR was even thought of.

How many people don't recognize the metallic voiced "Exterminate!" call of the Daleks, or the blue police box of the Dr's Tardis?

People may not know what the show is about, or may not have even watched it, but they recognize the icons of the show when they see them.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:26 pm

I'm not being biased, but I never heard of Dr. Who until I came into the Knight Rider fandom last year. But before I became a member of the KR fandom, I did hear about the original series, once or twice, but I never to bother to find out about it.

I think it depends on where you live. No one I know here in the US has ever heard of Dr. Who, although after I found out what it is, I want to find a legal way to watch it.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by knightprobe89 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:04 am

i am going to say knight rider, i really dont know anything about dr who.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:58 am

Hmmm, I'd say that around the world people more people would recognize KITT or Hasselhoff as Michael Knight than one of the many actors who played the doctor or the TARDIS. The only thing is that since Dr.Who has been on TV for for over four decades and had many spinoffs and I'd imagine it has probably been more consistent in its quality over that time, its certainly built up a stronger and probably larger fan base in its home country and actually I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot more fans around the world. It's certainly got a much better, more detailed Wiki entry, heh.

I'd guess I'd say (actually I already did, oh well) more people would recognize KITT or Michael Knight, even if they didn't watch Knight Rider but Dr.Who has a overall larger active fan base..
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Skav » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:29 am

This is an easy question.

That's like questioning the popularity between Terminator 2 and The Crow. T2 is a straight out classic but The Crow is a CULT classic, meaning that it shoots for a certain group of people.

Dr. Who is easily the most popular and more famous series with fans the world over, it started something like 20 years before KR.

I don't need to post my country to give information about each property's popularity, I KNOW Dr. Who is the more recognizable and more popular franchise the world over.

KR is an acquired taste and has a lower fan base. Fact.

It often gets lumped with "those other cheesy 80's shows like A-team and Airwolf".

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Mr. M » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:59 pm

Skav wrote:KR is an acquired taste and has a lower fan base. Fact.

It often gets lumped with "those other cheesy 80's shows like A-team and Airwolf".

Ah, yes, the A-Team. The A-Team may have been cheesy, but it was still fun. Good opening credit music as well.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Toni Nummela » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:57 pm

Finland goes to Knight Rider.

Dr. Who is more like "doctor who?" in here as KR was (and still is) a hit series.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by cloudkitt » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:27 pm

I only really learned of Dr. Who 2 years ago, and at least in the States, when I mention it, people usually say "Dr. Who?"

Of course, the most widespread and successful television show of all time is Baywatch...as sad as that is.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:16 pm

And another Hasselhoff project :lol: and he said that KR was more well known than Baywatch from the places he traveled. Never underestimate the power of hot women in skin tight swimsuits... Especially Pamela Anderson back then when she was at her peak.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:18 am

Skav wrote:This is an easy question.

That's like questioning the popularity between Terminator 2 and The Crow. T2 is a straight out classic but The Crow is a CULT classic, meaning that it shoots for a certain group of people.

Dr. Who is easily the most popular and more famous series with fans the world over, it started something like 20 years before KR.

I don't need to post my country to give information about each property's popularity, I KNOW Dr. Who is the more recognizable and more popular franchise the world over.

KR is an acquired taste and has a lower fan base. Fact.

It often gets lumped with "those other cheesy 80's shows like A-team and Airwolf".


Skav,

Let's get one thing perfectly straight. You know nothing on this subject matter as a fact, you have an opinion just like everyone else on the board so do not present your opinion as an undeniable fact unless you're willing to go through the effort of posting links and articles of research to support your claims, you have an opinion just like everyone else here.

You cannot declare something as fact until you have the evidence to support it.

If it was a fact that Dr. Who was more recognized world wide, there wouldn't be an open discussion about it because it wouldn't be worth addressing, clearly there is a differential and I am exploring that differential accordingly.

I respect your right to disagree but there are no right or wrong answers here just opinions and I don't much care for your tone. Also you may not disclose what region you are from but it's common knowledge you are international and not in the states.

Keep it respectful please.

Thanks.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Skav » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:27 am

Victor Kros wrote:
Skav wrote:This is an easy question.

That's like questioning the popularity between Terminator 2 and The Crow. T2 is a straight out classic but The Crow is a CULT classic, meaning that it shoots for a certain group of people.

Dr. Who is easily the most popular and more famous series with fans the world over, it started something like 20 years before KR.

I don't need to post my country to give information about each property's popularity, I KNOW Dr. Who is the more recognizable and more popular franchise the world over.

KR is an acquired taste and has a lower fan base. Fact.

It often gets lumped with "those other cheesy 80's shows like A-team and Airwolf".


Skav,

Let's get one thing perfectly straight. You know nothing on this subject matter as a fact, you have an opinion just like everyone else on the board so do not present your opinion as an undeniable fact unless you're willing to go through the effort of posting links and articles of research to support your claims, you have an opinion just like everyone else here.

You cannot declare something as fact until you have the evidence to support it.

If it was a fact that Dr. Who was more recognized world wide, there wouldn't be an open discussion about it because it wouldn't be worth addressing, clearly there is a differential and I am exploring that differential accordingly.

I respect your right to disagree but there are no right or wrong answers here just opinions and I don't much care for your tone. Also you may not disclose what region you are from but it's common knowledge you are international and not in the states.

Keep it respectful please.

Thanks.

=VK=
:dash:


Excuse me, Victor? I don't need to present articles and what not to prove Dr. Who has the bigger fan base and is larger in popularity, yet, I can still call it a fact. It's actually common logic.

It's like comparing Star Wars with Knight Rider. Okay, so Star Wars might have just that little bit of a bigger fan base but you get my drift.

Believe me, I know this, shall we say, comparison, very well. Don't tell me I don't!

How do you know I'm not a hardcore Dr. Who fan?

You don't know what I know and don't know. You only see words from me on a screen. To tell me that is fool hardy and and quite frankly, embarrasses you.

There was nothing wrong with my tone, I said it's an easy question to answer and it is.

KR is an 80's cheesy action show that has a fan base on a MUCH smaller scale. The original series of Dr. Who had started approx 20 years before.

And how about this, if you really want "proof" of some kind (you ask of articles to prove the comparison of fan bases which I think is impossible) then how come the new tv show took off and the new series of KR is on thin ice? You can say whatever you absolutely want about them not getting the aspects right of the show but the fashion of not having a talking car show in today's world also has something to do with it whether you accept that or not.

How about the fact I see various Dr. Who books, audio tapes and whatnot in various stores? How about the fact that Dr. Who has much more merchandise on Ebay than KR? I even checked how many bids on each set of merchandise was on the first page and KR was outnumbered 14-8. This was on the american Ebay as I thought this would be appropriate given that America has the larger nation.

Dr. Who merchandise has 467 pages on Ebay UK and 12 live auctions on the first page where as KR has a PALTRY 10 with 6 live auctions on page 1!

As I said before, it's an easy question to answer and that is not being disrespectful, I am stating a logical fact.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:13 pm

Skav wrote:
Victor Kros wrote:
Skav wrote:This is an easy question.

That's like questioning the popularity between Terminator 2 and The Crow. T2 is a straight out classic but The Crow is a CULT classic, meaning that it shoots for a certain group of people.

Dr. Who is easily the most popular and more famous series with fans the world over, it started something like 20 years before KR.

I don't need to post my country to give information about each property's popularity, I KNOW Dr. Who is the more recognizable and more popular franchise the world over.

KR is an acquired taste and has a lower fan base. Fact.

It often gets lumped with "those other cheesy 80's shows like A-team and Airwolf".


Skav,

Let's get one thing perfectly straight. You know nothing on this subject matter as a fact, you have an opinion just like everyone else on the board so do not present your opinion as an undeniable fact unless you're willing to go through the effort of posting links and articles of research to support your claims, you have an opinion just like everyone else here.

You cannot declare something as fact until you have the evidence to support it.

If it was a fact that Dr. Who was more recognized world wide, there wouldn't be an open discussion about it because it wouldn't be worth addressing, clearly there is a differential and I am exploring that differential accordingly.

I respect your right to disagree but there are no right or wrong answers here just opinions and I don't much care for your tone. Also you may not disclose what region you are from but it's common knowledge you are international and not in the states.

Keep it respectful please.

Thanks.

=VK=
:dash:


Excuse me, Victor? I don't need to present articles and what not to prove Dr. Who has the bigger fan base and is larger in popularity, yet, I can still call it a fact. It's actually common logic.

It's like comparing Star Wars with Knight Rider. Okay, so Star Wars might have just that little bit of a bigger fan base but you get my drift.

Believe me, I know this, shall we say, comparison, very well. Don't tell me I don't!

How do you know I'm not a hardcore Dr. Who fan?

You don't know what I know and don't know. You only see words from me on a screen. To tell me that is fool hardy and and quite frankly, embarrasses you.

There was nothing wrong with my tone, I said it's an easy question to answer and it is.

KR is an 80's cheesy action show that has a fan base on a MUCH smaller scale. The original series of Dr. Who had started approx 20 years before.

And how about this, if you really want "proof" of some kind (you ask of articles to prove the comparison of fan bases which I think is impossible) then how come the new tv show took off and the new series of KR is on thin ice? You can say whatever you absolutely want about them not getting the aspects right of the show but the fashion of not having a talking car show in today's world also has something to do with it whether you accept that or not.

How about the fact I see various Dr. Who books, audio tapes and whatnot in various stores? How about the fact that Dr. Who has much more merchandise on Ebay than KR? I even checked how many bids on each set of merchandise was on the first page and KR was outnumbered 14-8. This was on the american Ebay as I thought this would be appropriate given that America has the larger nation.

Dr. Who merchandise has 467 pages on Ebay UK and 12 live auctions on the first page where as KR has a PALTRY 10 with 6 live auctions on page 1!

As I said before, it's an easy question to answer and that is not being disrespectful, I am stating a logical fact.


Skav,

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told people on imdb about this subject and that is if you want to place a reason for not having all the merchandising and spin-offs and whatever else with Knight Rider that Dr. Who has, blame Universal and NBC. They didn't invest in merchandising and production as much as the BBC has invested in with Dr. Who. Clearly the BBC handles their properties and promotion of those properties better than Universal and NBC has with Knight Rider, there is no question about that. That is one fact you can declare as "common logic".

As for merchandising popularity it's fair to say that both properties have merchandise (however limited it may be) that sells very well, especially on ebay. Although Knight Rider does not have as large a range of merchandise as Dr. Who, it is a documented fact that what little merchandise it has, has been highly sought after for years since its release and continued releases since the show's cancellation.

As for your other points like this one here

"Excuse me, Victor? I don't need to present articles and what not to prove Dr. Who has the bigger fan base and is larger in popularity, yet, I can still call it a fact. It's actually common logic."


Your statement is not a fact - I already addressed the ebay comment above. They are your opinions and will be treated as such. Your tone was out of line because you declared your position with a matter of fact attitude and it was and remains an open discussion. I will not change my stance on it.

You have no "logical" fact here short of what I have collectively agreed with. You have conclusions and assumptions.

Lastly, I never said you were not a die hard supporter of Dr. Who so I really don't know where you're getting that information from. I said Dr. Who's recognition is partially dependent on region. Clearly it is bigger or should I say, more publiczed in the UK than it is in the United States.

This comment here is disrespectful:

"You don't know what I know and don't know. You only see words from me on a screen. To tell me that is fool hardy and and quite frankly, embarrasses you."


It is uncalled for and I do not appreciate it. What you do or do not know is not the issue, the issue is you are declaring facts without examples to support them.

Don't turn this subject into more than it is. Once again, please voice your opinion and believe what you believe but do not attack or insult me for disagreeing with you. It's pretty clear from your past commentary that you don't like me much and that's fine but keep your personal bais towards me out of the topic.

Thanks.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by J_Spaced » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:02 am

I see we've managed to veer nicely off topic.

Apologies to anyone who may feel offended by what I say next. It's not my intention to pick a fight.

So... more recognised? That's a heck of a question. What do you mean by "more recognised"? Does this mean "more widely known by Joe Public?" Or does it mean: "bigger fan base with more coming off it and inspired by it?"

I actually met someone last weekend who thought "Knight Rider had something to do with a bike?" But to be fair he only knows about Doctor Who because of the awesome popularity it's currently enjoying. He just wasn't a TV person.

Perhaps you could look at the merchandise. Doctor Who has had a steady stream of stuff marketed by the BBC since the sixites with Annuals produced every year for 20 - 30 years (they've started again), books based on the episodes, followed by new stories, comic strips consistently since 1964 (I think?). Toys since the same year. You could say "that's just the BBC marketing" but then would there be that much stuff if there wasn't a demand?

Conventions: Wooh! You can't move for Doctor Who people turning up at conventions both Doctor Who and general cult/Sci Fi. On your side of the Atlantic, dear Colonials (giggle) we've recently had Comic Con with Torchwood (Dr Who spin-off) and Doctor Who (classic and new) alumni appearing. That was followed immediately by Gallifrey One in LA. I think there's also Chicago TARDIS. Doctor Who conventions are a quarterly or even monthly thing.

Compare to Knight Rider's Festival and Knightcon, there's clearly more mileage to be had from Doctor Who appearances. I mean seriously, how many times would fans turn up to see David Hasselhoff raise his thumb? Whereas I know fans have listened to Nicholas Courtney's "Eyepatch" story on an actual yearly basis!

Fan groups! Does anyone hang out down the pub on a monthly basis entirely to talk about Knight Rider? Every City and a fair few towns in the UK have Dr Who fan groups (as well as the official Dr Who Fan Club). There's a monthly meeting in London to which writers and performers on the current series used to attend. (I'm assuming they don't now in case they get mobbed.)

In Knight Rider's favour you've got the real hardcore fans and entire companies dedicated to replica manufacture. Very, very cool. Would love to own one or three. But over here and in the States (and likely across Europe) we've got TARDISes springing up all over the place. Sylvester Stallone owns one. Fact.

Have a look on YouTube. Type "Doctor Who fan film". Now scroll down. Click Next Page. And next. And next. That's right: legions of us making Doctor Who movies in which we/ our brother/ our toys/ our dog is the Doctor!
Look up user Cyberrob and his awesome new special effects for classic Who or his new Davros project.

Also, to see more fan Doctors in one room than is really healthy: search "PUDSAI". Very cool production and even better if you've seen some of those Doctors in action in their own movies.

Try the same for Knight Rider? Oh look edited clips of KITT to a "rocking track". OMFG FTW ROFL and LOL... really not that inspiring, in my opinion. Some very nice images of people's replicas um... driving... to the store... um... and back. But they are nice looking cars.

I think it's safe to suggest here that Doctor Who has produced more inspiration across the board than Knight Rider. Or maybe we're just bigger geeks?

Countless interviews in Doctor Who Magazine (Do you have a Knight Rider magazine? DWM's been going for 30 years and it's just getting bigger and better) with really big people in the Production have said: "I watched Doctor Who as a child and that's when I knew I wanted to be a writer/ director/ producer/ scientist/ musician etc. etc. etc." Not just Doctor Who either. We have fans all over the place who are (in recent years) very vocal about it.

I think it's had a longer run up. Dr. Who has been going for 46 years now and though it had a brief *coff 16 years coff* break with one not-quite successful US excursion, it's got an appeal that is a lot more solid than Knight Rider. But it's not because it was marketed better, it's because it has the long term appeal of a go-anywhere do-anything story. I think therefore it gets a wider audience than Knight Rider.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Knight Rider, but Dr Who's appeal is so much more universal.

It's not based on any one nation and it's principals, so it doesn't alienate anyone who might look on its host Country with negative feeling.

Dr Who doesn't solve problems with a gun. Again, don't get me wrong. I love action stuff, with Michael and KITT facing huge oppresive odds and KITT whipping out a laser/ rocket launcher/ machine gun is awesome. But seeing a man talking an alien invasion into blowing itself up is somehow MORE impressive. I suppose it's a cultural thing...

Oops, I seem to have turned my post into: "Doctor Who is better than Knight Rider" thing, which I don't believe. They are equally good and different. (Although Dr Who is better ;) )

I think that the only way to really test this would be to get two photos: a TARDIS and KITT and walk around Cities in various countries saying: "What are these?" I'm willing to put money (50p) to bet that worldwide more people would recognise Doctor Who over Knight Rider. But that's because I'm a fool with my money.

Thank you for reading.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Skav » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:51 am

Victor Kros wrote:Skav,

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told people on imdb about this subject and that is if you want to place a reason for not having all the merchandising and spin-offs and whatever else with Knight Rider that Dr. Who has, blame Universal and NBC. They didn't invest in merchandising and production as much as the BBC has invested in with Dr. Who. Clearly the BBC handles their properties and promotion of those properties better than Universal and NBC has with Knight Rider, there is no question about that. That is one fact you can declare as "common logic".

As for merchandising popularity it's fair to say that both properties have merchandise (however limited it may be) that sells very well, especially on ebay. Although Knight Rider does not have as large a range of merchandise as Dr. Who, it is a documented fact that what little merchandise it has, has been highly sought after for years since its release and continued releases since the show's cancellation.

As for your other points like this one here

"Excuse me, Victor? I don't need to present articles and what not to prove Dr. Who has the bigger fan base and is larger in popularity, yet, I can still call it a fact. It's actually common logic."


Your statement is not a fact - I already addressed the ebay comment above. They are your opinions and will be treated as such. Your tone was out of line because you declared your position with a matter of fact attitude and it was and remains an open discussion. I will not change my stance on it.

You have no "logical" fact here short of what I have collectively agreed with. You have conclusions and assumptions.

Lastly, I never said you were not a die hard supporter of Dr. Who so I really don't know where you're getting that information from. I said Dr. Who's recognition is partially dependent on region. Clearly it is bigger or should I say, more publiczed in the UK than it is in the United States.

This comment here is disrespectful:

"You don't know what I know and don't know. You only see words from me on a screen. To tell me that is fool hardy and and quite frankly, embarrasses you."


It is uncalled for and I do not appreciate it. What you do or do not know is not the issue, the issue is you are declaring facts without examples to support them.

Don't turn this subject into more than it is. Once again, please voice your opinion and believe what you believe but do not attack or insult me for disagreeing with you. It's pretty clear from your past commentary that you don't like me much and that's fine but keep your personal bais towards me out of the topic.

Thanks.

=VK=
:dash:


Victor, I don't buy into the fact that Universal were just more incompetent than BBC with merchandising. The amount of merchandising for KR fit perfectly with the type of fan base it has and the 4 season show that it was. If you can't clearly see that Dr. Who has a much bigger fan base based on various aspects then I don't know what to tell you. It really is all logical fact. One reason for the larger amount of merchanding for Dr. Who is the fact that it has been around for much longer. You cannot expect Universal to keep pumping out merchandising on a show that only lasted 4 years. It's a trend, people lose interest. Much like how kids were with Power Rangers. It finished, the studio moves on. How long would you have expected Universal to keep pumping out merchandise after KR had finished? There was plenty of it in the show's reign. The studio has to make a profit, sooner or later they would have stopped making that.

Dr. Who is a phenomenon. KR is a cheesy 80's show that had the right amount of merhandising in it's 4 year run to keep the interest alive. It died. Merchandise ended. Was the show a big thing? Yep but simply not on the scale of Dr. Who.

Dr. Who was a show that was a first of it's kind. There have been movies before KR that have had "living" cars ie Herbie. What I am trying to do tell you is that the two cannot be compared both in originality and popularity. It's not a competitive question!

Now, about my statement that you quoted for being uncalled for, excuse me, you insulted me by saying I know nothing on the subject. That is an insulting thing for you to say.

Saying that you don't know me (fact) or what I know and don't know (fact) shouldn't offend you. I was defending myself after reading a shallow statement from you.

You can't expect to be a one way street in your favour.

This has nothing to do with my like or dislike of you, I was pointing out that this was a pretty easy question to answer and I don't think geographical areas matter IMO. I know KR is more popular in Europe but Dr. Who is even bigger there. This one I know as fact.

It's epicness vs a good, campy, fun 80's show.

If you posed a question of which was bigger between, say, the A-team or KR or even Dallas or KR, I could take it more seriously.

But you obviously saw or thought of something that would make the two shows competitive with one another where as I think they are leagues apart and cannot be compared.

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How about Dukes of Hazzard or Knight Rider

Post by Shadowy Flight » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:52 am

Victor's post intrigued me about the psychology that goes into marketing either show and yes, there seems to be more of a push for Dr. Who as far as the BBC goes over NBC's push for Knight Rider. Well that thought influenced me to post this about Knight Rider and Dukes. Not on the psychology of their marketing, but just the 2 shows compared to each other on an entertaining level. I tried to sit through an episode of Dukes of Hazzard as a kid, then again as an adult and I don't mean to offend any Dukes fans but how can anyone sit through this...for eight seasons to say the least. How did it outlast Knight Rider. Not to say that KR had rocket science storylines, but it definitely had more depth than Dukes. Yet Dukes outlives KR by 4 seasons. For entertainment values of "car-related" tv shows and movies (and how the cars are utilized), here's my top 10:

10) Dukes of Hazzard
9) Starsky and Hutch
8) Any Fast and the Furious Movie (Sorry don't hate me for this one)
7) James Bond (with any of his cars)
6) Viper
5) Ghostbusters (Ecto 1)
4) Batmobiles (of any Batman movie or tv show. I know its not fair but I rank them all the same)
3) Transformers (old school only!!!)
2) Knight Rider (old school only!!!)
1) Back to the Future (sorry, I don't mean to say the Delorean beats kitt, but I'm basing this on overall utilization of the vehicle and entertainment value of the films)

and my honorable mentions: Smokey and the Bandit, any car that Steve McQueen drives, Gone in 60 seconds, and of course Herbie the love bug.

Can I see your list?
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:47 pm

Victor and Skav: you are free to lecture eachother to your heart's content privately. Please keep it off the board. thank you.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:34 pm

Skav,

Victor, I don't buy into the fact that Universal were just more incompetent than BBC with merchandising. The amount of merchandising for KR fit perfectly with the type of fan base it has and the 4 season show that it was. If you can't clearly see that Dr. Who has a much bigger fan base based on various aspects then I don't know what to tell you. It really is all logical fact. One reason for the larger amount of merchanding for Dr. Who is the fact that it has been around for much longer. You cannot expect Universal to keep pumping out merchandising on a show that only lasted 4 years. It's a trend, people lose interest. Much like how kids were with Power Rangers. It finished, the studio moves on.

Power Ranger is still in production and quite popular with kids, it's far from finished and still has new toys that are carried at Target, Toys R Us, etc and continues to have multiple spin-offs. If you want to say that Power Rangers is not as popular as it was in its heyday like say Knight Rider, I'll agree to that.

As per your other examples above, while you are correct that Dr. Who has more merchandise for reasons I clearly explained, the remainder is your opinion and you're welcome to it.


How long would you have expected Universal to keep pumping out merchandise after KR had finished? There was plenty of it in the show's reign. The studio has to make a profit, sooner or later they would have stopped making that.

- Knight Rider still has new merchandise being released, it's just not as broadcasted or numerous. As stated before Ertle has re-released the 1:18 Knight 2000 due to demand. Japan continues to release new Aoshima K.I.T.T.s. and Mio came out with a KR themed GPS, therefore your point about Universal being "finished" with releasing new merchandise for KR, is invalid. Furthermore the, Knight Rider: The Complete Series dvd box set which came out October 2008 continues to sell.

Dr. Who is a phenomenon. KR is a cheesy 80's show that had the right amount of merhandising in it's 4 year run to keep the interest alive. It died. Merchandise ended. Was the show a big thing? Yep but simply not on the scale of Dr. Who.

Dr. Who was a show that was a first of it's kind. There have been movies before KR that have had "living" cars ie Herbie. What I am trying to do tell you is that the two cannot be compared both in originality and popularity. It's not a competitive question!

- Television shows and movies prior to Knight Rider did not feature cars that were both controlled by a A.I., (not "living" - Herbie was not a computer or AI) and jumped without the need for ramps (from a story standpoint) or functions like Ski Mode that happen at the press of a button (again, story standpoint). You could however claim that advanced features in a car did exist, mostly in James Bond films which as Glen stated were part of his inspiration for Knight Rider. Based on these points, I would disagree that Knight Rider was not the first of its kind. Again the rest is your OPINION, not fact.

Now, about my statement that you quoted for being uncalled for, excuse me, you insulted me by saying I know nothing on the subject. That is an insulting thing for you to say.

- No, I said (at the time) you have an opinion, you know nothing as a matter of fact.

"Let's get one thing perfectly straight. You know nothing on this subject matter as a fact, you have an opinion just like everyone else on the board so do not present your opinion as an undeniable fact. unless you're willing to go through the effort of posting links and articles of research to support your claims, you have an opinion just like everyone else here."


You might want to pay more attention to what I say vs. what you believe I say. It helps if you use exact quotes to avoid confusion.

Saying that you don't know me (fact) or what I know and don't know (fact) shouldn't offend you. I was defending myself after reading a shallow statement from you.

- I'll consider it a miscommunication and move on. Clearly you didn't read the entire context of the comment.

You can't expect to be a one way street in your favour.

- Stop placing words into my mouth that I did not say. To be quite honest, your "movie/tv" examples outside of Dr. Who/Knight Rider tend to be inaccurate (like Power Ranger, Terminator 2, Star Wars etc.) and I think you have to accept at this point, you don't have all the answers and therefore don't have all the facts.

This has nothing to do with my like or dislike of you, I was pointing out that this was a pretty easy question to answer and I don't think geographical areas matter IMO. I know KR is more popular in Europe but Dr. Who is even bigger there. This one I know as fact.

- Again it's your opinion.

It's epicness vs a good, campy, fun 80's show.

If you posed a question of which was bigger between, say, the A-team or KR or even Dallas or KR, I could take it more seriously.

- This remains your opinion

But you obviously saw or thought of something that would make the two shows competitive with one another where as I think they are leagues apart and cannot be compared.

- That continues to remain your opinion (statements like "I think" are an opinion). Disagree with me, that's fine but don't declare facts you don't have. This isn't about who insulted who, it's about accuracy.

I respect your opinion about Dr. Who as long as you recognize it's your opinion and while it might be a "fact" to you the point of this thread is an open discussion. There are no right or wrong answers here as you're trying to specify.


I agree with Michael that if you wish to take this particular discussion further, you're welcome to send me a PM.

Thanks.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:13 pm

No Victor, you do NOT agree with me. If you agreed with me you would have responded to skav in a PM rather than continue to fight in a thread after a moderator issued a warning.

I am saying it again: no more lecturing. No more fighting.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:27 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:No Victor, you do NOT agree with me. If you agreed with me you have responded to skav in a PM rather than continue to fight in a thread after a moderator issued a warning.

I am saying it again: no more lecturing. No more fighting.


- So let me get this straight. In an OPEN DISCUSSION forum is it "ok" for someone to come in and declare that they know facts when this particular topic encourages opinion? It is furthermore "ok" for another member of the board to sidetrack the purpose of the discussion and further insult the original poster of the topic (me) by telling them in public mind you that what they post is pointless and shouldn't even be something that is questioned?

Is that what you're saying Michael? I really would respectfully request a clarification.

I will agree to honor your second "request", I typically do not submit to "demands". As a moderator of the board, I will respect your wishes and your authority even if I do not agree with it. I will cease my discussion with Skav.

I belive the subject of this thread is worth exploring further.

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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:09 pm

Victor, let's get one thing perfectly straight...

OK let's stop right there. How do you feel right now, based upon how I started my post? Defensive? Angry? I don't blame you. "Let's get one thing perfectly straight" is an aggressive and confrontational way to start speaking with someone, and that's how you started off discussions with skav.

Skav declared a "fact" without providing evidence. Is that REALLY such a big deal? Why not simply call him on it and say "skav, do you have specific evidence to support your 'fact'"? But instead you were confrontational and accused him of being disrespectful.

You are very quick to tell people to choose their words carefully; perhaps you should do the same. When you start a post with "let's get one thing perfectly straight..." you are putting people on the defensive and that creates conflict.

To answer your specific question: Yes, it is an OPEN DISCUSSION and therefore people may occasionally present a "fact" without evidence. When that happens, then it's free reign for people to ask for supporting data. But we expect people to be respectful in that request.



Regarding the thread topic, it is a confusing question. The thread title is different from the question you asked in your post. Or are you asking several questions? People seem to be answering the question "which show is more popular: Dr. Who or KR" when the ACTUAL question was "which show do YOU PERSONALLY know more about?" That seems like an odd question to ask on a KR-specific board so I don't think you would get accurate data. But if you restated the question maybe you would get more of what you were looking for.
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Re: What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

Post by Victor Kros » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:39 am

As the topic states, the thread is, What is more recognized, Dr. Who or Knight Rider?

It is not "what is more popular", "what makes more money with merchandise", "what studio is better", "what franchise has more airtime/shows/seasons" it is simply what is more recognized world wide by people world wide. Clearly to answer this question with an opinion, popularity, merchandising, series length/spin-offs, and studio handling are all factors to consider but they are not the question itself.

J_Spaced's suggestion:

"I think that the only way to really test this would be to get two photos: a TARDIS and KITT and walk around Cities in various countries saying: "What are these?"


Is an example of being more on topic. Recognition is really dependent on what you see or know about, there are many popular things out there, many seasons of shows, many dvds, but not everyone knows about them in a world wide capacity.

I hope this clarifies things.

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