Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

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Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Rockatteer » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:15 pm

In first episode we saw Mike Trucer killed off to become Micheal Knight because people where after him, but now we see him going back to visit old friends etc and basically letting them all know that "Psych! I'm not dead after all."

Then we hear him talking about sharing his first drink with his father, even though in the pilot we're told that he didn't know who his father was.

Whats going on with the story lines here? Are they being ignored? have they been dropped? what?

Surely a little consistency isn't too much to ask for.. is it?
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Honeykitt » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:26 pm

Mike said "Your Father" as he talked to Sarah.

He was referring to Dr. Graiman as the person who took him for his first beer.

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by K.A.C.I. » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:28 pm

Rockatteer wrote:Then we hear him talking about sharing his first drink with his father, even though in the pilot we're told that he didn't know who his father was.

I think you're a tad confused here. In the scene you're talking about, Mike wasn't talking about his father - he was talking about SARAH's father - Charles Graiman.

As to the reboot ignoring the pilot, well the series has pretty much ignored the pilot, except for a couple of the most important plot points concerning Mike, basically from the get-go, so I see no reason the reboot wouldn't follow that precedent. If anything, the reboot's probably following the ideas established in the pilot more closely than the first part of the series did.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Rockatteer » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:59 pm

hmm... ok. I was confused in that case. I thought he said my dad.

any-hoo... I think my second point still stands though right? Mike shouldn't be going back to old friends when he's spose to be dead and has a new identity.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by ssilipino » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:16 am

Yeah but perhaps they don't know he's dead. He still goes by Mike, not just Traceur

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:37 am

Except that it made the news and Mike's "old friend" in the second episode heard about it and yes, something like that would reach further than Washington D.C.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by R.I.T.T. » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:58 am

Well, he didn't use the Knight name in the last episode so for his old friend he would be Traceur(or maybe I missed it).

And I'm sure when I die not everyone I ever have known in life will learn about it even if it makes the news.(because not everyone watches the news, pretty easy to miss some stuff that is going on in the world)
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by davidknightrider » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:58 pm

Why do people call the change in storyline a "Reboot".

That is a totally incorrect term to use. It was actually a "retooling", simply a quick change in storyline and style.

"Reboot" means you start from scratch with a completely new story, new cast etc.

Examples are: Batman Begins, which was a complete restart to the Tim Burton, Joel Schumacher films.

For KR08, there has been no reboot,

all they did was simply do a quick change in plot direction over the course of 3 episodes by killing off some characters and letting one other go.

The Pilot is Not being ignored by the series at all.

How come people cannot understand such a simple thing?

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by WIBoomer1 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:13 pm

davidknightrider wrote:Why do people call the change in storyline a "Reboot".

That is a totally incorrect term to use. It was actually a "retooling", simply a quick change in storyline and style.

"Reboot" means you start from scratch with a completely new story, new cast etc.

Examples are: Batman Begins, which was a complete restart to the Tim Burton, Joel Schumacher films.

For KR08, there has been no reboot,

all they did was simply do a quick change in plot direction over the course of 3 episodes by killing off some characters and letting one other go.

The Pilot is Not being ignored by the series at all.

How come people cannot understand such a simple thing?


It's more like Retcon, or retroactive continuity. Here's a link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

As it's been beaten to death, GST took elements from the Pilot. He then refashioned them, losing elements. So what we have now is a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, but nothing straight from either KR TOS or KR Feb 08. The list of changes are like a laundry list now, and we just need to accept that what we got in the last 5 eps should have been what we got the entire time.

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Lost Knight » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:16 pm

People have trouble understanding this because the show has been so hopelessly and utterly confused with its own continuity ever since it aired. It's best to say that only particular elements were picked and continued off of both from the original series and the backdoor pilot. For instance, in the backdoor pilot Sarah was a simple college professor and K.I.T.T. had an iPhone touchscreen and only nanotechnology. Now, he has a new dashboard and has transforming abilities on top of the nanotechnology and Sarah knows how to fight. On the same token, Mike mentioned in a recent episode that his mother was shot and killed in front of him last year, so that element of continuity has been retained. Certainly switching the episode order around hasn't helped the case, either.

But you're right that "reboot" isn't the correct term to use. Gary Scott Thompson initially called it that and I guess it's a little easier to just say reboot than retooling, but that's the term I use to refer to it.

EDIT: Ugghh it's been getting annoying when I post at the exact same time as another member and points get brought up by someone else!
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Rockatteer » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:32 pm

davidknightrider wrote:Why do people call the change in storyline a "Reboot".

Because thats what GST and his cronies called it.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Lost Knight » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:50 pm

Rockatteer wrote:
davidknightrider wrote:Why do people call the change in storyline a "Reboot".

Because thats what GST and his cronies called it.


You know, it occurs to me that maybe Gary Scott Thomposon purposely called it that to give unhappy people the impression that the show would be completely changed and not just have a few less cast members. It seems he sure does love vagueness, ignorance and confusion.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Rockatteer » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:50 pm

Yeah he does.

It'd be great to have the Hoff take over his position for season 2.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Knight007 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:16 pm

I think its a Reboot. and the story line has been changed. I mean you really dont see the difference between first episod and the last one??? the whole thing has been changed 180 Degress.
I think you will go back to the first 3 episods after the time off air. these are required because of the viewers. GST cant simply come back with 3 main characters missing and expect us to go as if nothing happened.

any way, for Mike's father reference. Both Mike ans Sarah refered to their fathers. First Mike was talking about Dr Graiman. Then Sarah was talking about Mike dad when he took him to the bar.

but the thing that is confusing is, his old girl friend. did you notice what she called him the first time she saw him??? she called him Michel!!! how did she know??? was she watching the show as we are doing? I mean for them he is still Mike who is supposed to be dead as other members on the board mentioned, but how they now know him as mike?

I think GST was rushing with the new episods to be filmed and aired Image :kitt:

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by captainz57 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:52 pm

If I may, I think i can help clear up the confusion on the "Mike's Dad" line. Mike says "Your dad(referring to Sarah's Dad, Dr. Graiman) took me there for my first beer." To which Sarah responds "and his (Dr. Graiman's) dad took him there for his." I had the same reaction many of you had to that couple of lines and had to replay it lol.
As for the bar owner calling him "Michael;" my name is Michael. I generally go by Mike, but some people call me Michael, Mike being a shortened form of Michael. Has nothing to do with the fact his name is Traceur or Knight. If you recall when Mike first talks to Dr. Graiman in the pilot, he calls him Michael. KITT calls him Mike in the pilot, but by the time of Knight in Shining armor, he calls him Michael even when he's still going by Mike Traceur. Everyone back at the SSC still calls him Mike, but he introduces himself as "Michael Knight" or Mike interchangeably.
If you recall in the TOS episode "A Plush Ride" (one of my favorites), Redmond actually calls Michael "Mike" once or twice. In fact, the other female worker at the bar (sorry, too lazy to look up names) makes a point of Julie calling him Michael when everyone else calls him Mike, but in the context of them possibly having had a "thing" in the past.
As for Mike still interacting with his old friends, I see your point. Doesn't make much sense to fake your own death if you don't keep it pretty airtight.

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by R.I.T.T. » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:58 am

Knight007 wrote:
but the thing that is confusing is, his old girl friend. did you notice what she called him the first time she saw him??? she called him Michel!!! how did she know??? was she watching the show as we are doing? I mean for them he is still Mike who is supposed to be dead as other members on the board mentioned, but how they now know him as mike?



Ehm...his name probably always has been Michael(shortened to Mike by himself and most people), only his surname changed...which if I recall correctly wasn't mentioned by any of his old friends.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Rockatteer » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:10 am

Knight007 wrote:but the thing that is confusing is, his old girl friend. did you notice what she called him the first time she saw him??? she called him Michel!!! how did she know??? was she watching the show as we are doing? I mean for them he is still Mike who is supposed to be dead as other members on the board mentioned, but how they now know him as mike?

That was actually explained when the other bar-maid asked if there was a thing between them.

She said that the old girlfriend called him Micheal, but he introduced himself as Mike, clearly indicating that Micheal is in fact his full name, but he prefers to be called Mike.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by ssilipino » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:19 am

As far as the continuity between the pilot and the rest of the series are concerned, I have come up with a way to keep them both in the same continuity, even though I do respect GST decision to not make them 100% continuous.

Here's how I figured it out (and please try and find holes in my logic, because there probably is and I can fix them if possible):

Mike and Sarah grew up as childhood friends, Jennifer and Charles not living far from each other. Jenn sends Mike off to military school at before the end of high school, and when he comes back, after he and Sarah have graduated, Sarah has already left for Stanford. Mike, disheartened she didn't wait for him, he enlists and is sent to the Middle East.

Meanwhile, the NSA and Torres has recovered KARR from the bridge, and returned him to Graiman to be redeveloped. Charles thinks he can fix the flaws in the AI. Charles, with the help of the military, built KAcRRe with his nanotechnology and the rebuilt AI. Knowing Mike's family history, Charles suggest that they choose the son of the original driver to operate the new model. Mike gets transfered to the new unit and is assigned as the human element of KARR. Mike gets reunited with Charles, and then gets a hold of Sarah finally. They talk and get to know each other again.

Mike and his unit are shipped out to test KARR, but KARR still has flaws and goes bisserk, reprogramming himself and taking control, and ends up killing 7 people. They finally get KARR shut down, but his team think Mike was the one who commanded KARR to do it. The NSA figures KARR is to much of a threat and shut it down, telling Graiman to go back to the drawing board. After the trauma, Mike calls Sarah, pops the questions. Mike is then ambushed by his unit and his memory is wiped as per NSA's instructions. Mike then has lunch with the friend in Bayruk, not knowing he popped the question. Mike is discharged, Sarah doesn't hear from him for a while and goes to start teaching, Graimen goes recluse again to fix the KARR project by build a new KITT

Graiman doesn't want to return KITT to the NSA to fix KARR, so he leaves many of the systems unchecked but the car is built

Events of Pilot Movie

The NSA finds out about the FBI and KI's partnership, and decide to jump in, in hopes of finished KARR liked originally planned. They halt the reformation of FLAG, and lease KI's airfield and help them build the SSC under ground. They have Charles make some modification to KITT to help beef up his performance and weaponry for terrorist missions. So we get the redesigned interior and the new attack mode. They send all the people associated with the new KR&D through training, which is where Sarah gets all her combat training. KITT is given new features, such as the ability to transform (which can be explained in the first episode when Sarah tells him to run the new program and he transforms into the truck. Mike is surprised by this, so perfhap sthis was the first time KITT ever "transformed").

The series occurs.

I think everything fits. let me know what you think

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Knight007 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:55 am

Its really interesting the way you relate things together. I cant find any thing not ok with your view now, but I will think about it. but for now, your's is the best i heared to date. maybe others can find something to point out. Image :kitt:

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Rockatteer » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:55 am

ssilipino wrote:As far as the continuity between the pilot and the rest of the series are concerned, I have come up with a way to keep them both in the same continuity, even though I do respect GST decision to not make them 100% continuous.

Here's how I figured it out (and please try and find holes in my logic, because there probably is and I can fix them if possible):

Mike and Sarah grew up as childhood friends, Jennifer and Charles not living far from each other. Jenn sends Mike off to military school at before the end of high school, and when he comes back, after he and Sarah have graduated, Sarah has already left for Stanford. Mike, disheartened she didn't wait for him, he enlists and is sent to the Middle East.

Meanwhile, the NSA and Torres has recovered KARR from the bridge, and returned him to Graiman to be redeveloped. Charles thinks he can fix the flaws in the AI. Charles, with the help of the military, built KAcRRe with his nanotechnology and the rebuilt AI. Knowing Mike's family history, Charles suggest that they choose the son of the original driver to operate the new model. Mike gets transfered to the new unit and is assigned as the human element of KARR. Mike gets reunited with Charles, and then gets a hold of Sarah finally. They talk and get to know each other again.

Mike and his unit are shipped out to test KARR, but KARR still has flaws and goes bisserk, reprogramming himself and taking control, and ends up killing 7 people. They finally get KARR shut down, but his team think Mike was the one who commanded KARR to do it. The NSA figures KARR is to much of a threat and shut it down, telling Graiman to go back to the drawing board. After the trauma, Mike calls Sarah, pops the questions. Mike is then ambushed by his unit and his memory is wiped as per NSA's instructions. Mike then has lunch with the friend in Bayruk, not knowing he popped the question. Mike is discharged, Sarah doesn't hear from him for a while and goes to start teaching, Graimen goes recluse again to fix the KARR project by build a new KITT

Graiman doesn't want to return KITT to the NSA to fix KARR, so he leaves many of the systems unchecked but the car is built

Events of Pilot Movie

The NSA finds out about the FBI and KI's partnership, and decide to jump in, in hopes of finished KARR liked originally planned. They halt the reformation of FLAG, and lease KI's airfield and help them build the SSC under ground. They have Charles make some modification to KITT to help beef up his performance and weaponry for terrorist missions. So we get the redesigned interior and the new attack mode. They send all the people associated with the new KR&D through training, which is where Sarah gets all her combat training. KITT is given new features, such as the ability to transform (which can be explained in the first episode when Sarah tells him to run the new program and he transforms into the truck. Mike is surprised by this, so perfhap sthis was the first time KITT ever "transformed").

The series occurs.

I think everything fits. let me know what you think

Except it doesn't actually have anything to do with the topic of this thread.

Is the reboot ignoring the Pilot and first episode?
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by R.I.T.T. » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:48 am

I believe his answer in short would be: No.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Lost Knight » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:00 am

Really, it's a disgrace that things are at the point where fans even have to ask about the continuity, whether from the original series, backdoor pilot, or even the series itself before the retooling.
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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by Lexicon » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:32 pm

I'll lay it out just so we're clear on what is what...

1. The telefilm (which some refer to as the "Pilot") follows the premise of the original Knight Rider concept without anything to say about the backstory connections between the original series and the telefilm other than the Michael Knight (David Hasselhoff) "could be the same one we saw on TV", FLAG existed and was shut down at some point, and KITT (Knight Industries Two Thousand) was designed and built by Charles Graiman. This does not mean that the telefilm implicitly follows the continuity of the four season run of Knight Rider but rather it simply says "Here and now." and not "Then and there." while acknowledging that the holy idea of Knight Rider we know and love is the groundwork for what would have been the new series.

2. The series takes the basic character, story, and stylistic elements from the telefilm that Gary Scott Thompson found acceptable (or was forced to recycle) and rolls them into his own take on Knight Rider. Overall, it seems he was not satisfied with the execution of the telefilm, David Andron's version of a new Knight Rider, and he certainly does not want it to influence the viewers of his version of Knight Rider, which is why it is no longer available for viewing. Much like the telefilm, his take on bringing back Knight Rider simply acknowledges that there was a Michael Knight, a Knight Industries Two Thousand created and designed by Charles Graiman, and a Foundation For Law And Government created by Wilton Knight but it seems to follow it's own vague continuity and backstory, some of which does gel with the telefilm's backstory, and a lot of other stuff added by GST and others which takes things in a radically different direction.

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:38 pm

I'd say that is pretty accurate. And GST has bended. Poor Gary won't get to see Deanna in skimpy outfits anymore :lol:

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Re: Is the re-boot ignoring the pilot and first episode?

Post by KnightCrusader99 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:58 pm

ssilipino wrote:As far as the continuity between the pilot and the rest of the series are concerned, I have come up with a way to keep them both in the same continuity, even though I do respect GST decision to not make them 100% continuous.

Here's how I figured it out (and please try and find holes in my logic, because there probably is and I can fix them if possible):

Mike and Sarah grew up as childhood friends, Jennifer and Charles not living far from each other. Jenn sends Mike off to military school at before the end of high school, and when he comes back, after he and Sarah have graduated, Sarah has already left for Stanford. Mike, disheartened she didn't wait for him, he enlists and is sent to the Middle East.

Meanwhile, the NSA and Torres has recovered KARR from the bridge, and returned him to Graiman to be redeveloped. Charles thinks he can fix the flaws in the AI. Charles, with the help of the military, built KAcRRe with his nanotechnology and the rebuilt AI. Knowing Mike's family history, Charles suggest that they choose the son of the original driver to operate the new model. Mike gets transfered to the new unit and is assigned as the human element of KARR. Mike gets reunited with Charles, and then gets a hold of Sarah finally. They talk and get to know each other again.

Mike and his unit are shipped out to test KARR, but KARR still has flaws and goes bisserk, reprogramming himself and taking control, and ends up killing 7 people. They finally get KARR shut down, but his team think Mike was the one who commanded KARR to do it. The NSA figures KARR is to much of a threat and shut it down, telling Graiman to go back to the drawing board. After the trauma, Mike calls Sarah, pops the questions. Mike is then ambushed by his unit and his memory is wiped as per NSA's instructions. Mike then has lunch with the friend in Bayruk, not knowing he popped the question. Mike is discharged, Sarah doesn't hear from him for a while and goes to start teaching, Graimen goes recluse again to fix the KARR project by build a new KITT

Graiman doesn't want to return KITT to the NSA to fix KARR, so he leaves many of the systems unchecked but the car is built

Events of Pilot Movie

The NSA finds out about the FBI and KI's partnership, and decide to jump in, in hopes of finished KARR liked originally planned. They halt the reformation of FLAG, and lease KI's airfield and help them build the SSC under ground. They have Charles make some modification to KITT to help beef up his performance and weaponry for terrorist missions. So we get the redesigned interior and the new attack mode. They send all the people associated with the new KR&D through training, which is where Sarah gets all her combat training. KITT is given new features, such as the ability to transform (which can be explained in the first episode when Sarah tells him to run the new program and he transforms into the truck. Mike is surprised by this, so perfhap sthis was the first time KITT ever "transformed").

The series occurs.

I think everything fits. let me know what you think


Wow... that is EXACTLY what the storyline is in my head as well. I am glad you took the time to type it out.

I for one, have not seen any glaring issues with the continuity thus far, everything that has been going on hasn't contradicted anything from the original series or the pilot.... however, it is just we are 'lacking' information. That isn't the same as a continuity issue.

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