New Knight Rider on the Upswing

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New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by wingsnbcusa » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:08 pm

With all the changes to The New Knight Rider going back to some of the old roots of the 80s show bringing back FLAG and another good epsiode last night this show may just make it. :good:

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by My_Friend_KITT » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:26 am

I agree Wings...I love the changes and am sooo excited with the turns KR is taking!
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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Knight007 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:45 am

This is what we hope for, something that will make people watch the show and the ratings will go up :kitt:

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Lost Knight » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:09 pm

I wonder if anyone would even notice a difference in the show if nobody knew about the retooling. People are saying "Exit Light, Enter Knight" was much more in tune with the original series, but I disagree. The only 'retooling' I saw was less cast members. The remaining people were still in the S.C.C. and giving K.I.T.T. orders left and right. Michael never even actually drove K.I.T.T. in the episode and the plot was more like 24 than anything else. It still didn't feel like Knight Rider to me. Aside from no T&A and a somewhat darker feel, there's really not much of a difference.
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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by honnziva » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:10 pm

thank god you have your Dvd's then right!
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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Mr.Marcus » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:30 pm

Lost Knight wrote:I wonder if anyone would even notice a difference in the show if nobody knew about the retooling. People are saying "Exit Light, Enter Knight" was much more in tune with the original series, but I disagree. The only 'retooling' I saw was less cast members. The remaining people were still in the S.C.C. and giving K.I.T.T. orders left and right. Michael never even actually drove K.I.T.T. in the episode and the plot was more like 24 than anything else. It still didn't feel like Knight Rider to me. Aside from no T&A and a somewhat darker feel, there's really not much of a difference.


I disagree. I have been a vocal opponent of KR08 and even I acknowledge they got it right with the last episode. Its far from perfect and there's many improvements that need to be made. But last week's episode was the closest the show has come to TOS's basic episodic plots of Michael and KITT on the road running into trouble and saving the day. The difference is that where Devon and Bonnie were usually passive players giving a piece of guidance or improvement to KITT, Sarah Billy and Zoe were far more active in assisting Michael and KITT.

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Rockatteer » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:17 pm

I disagree with you. I think this last episode was far from right.

We're still seeing Kitt used as a tool instead of a character. For example why the hell did Kitt just sit there through the whole bank robbers arrive scene? Kitt should have been in the middle of all that action, showing us what he's made of, bullets bouncing off him, lasers firing, saving people.. it could have been an awesome scene, but what do we get? Kitt calling 911 and a quick scene of bullets hitting him. WTF!!??

This show still has far too much focus on the people in my opinion.

Kitt needs to be the co-star of this show, not the car of the show.

I'm glad they've reduced the cast and the show is headed in the right direction, but they still have work to do, and they still[ don't seem to understand what Knight Rider is about.
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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Lost Knight » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:27 pm

Rockatteer wrote:We're still seeing Kitt used as a tool instead of a character. For example why the hell did Kitt just sit there through the whole bank robbers arrive scene? Kitt should have been in the middle of all that action, showing us what he's made of, bullets bouncing off him, lasers firing, saving people.. it could have been an awesome scene, but what do we get? Kitt calling 911 and a quick scene of bullets hitting him. WTF!!??

This show still has far too much focus on the people in my opinion.


And therein lies the problem. The worst episodes of the original series also featured K.I.T.T. as more of a tool instead of a co-star ("Knight Sting" comes to mind).

And speaking of the whole 'bank robbers arrive' scene, that in and of itself made no sense to me. Why would any group of people just show up and start shooting at everything moving for no real reason? Nobody was a threat to them at the time. And then for the main bad guy to not immediately shoot Mike when he acted up wasn't consistent with shooting everything just a few minutes earlier. Wouldn't the overall goal be to slip in undetected, rob the bank and get out?
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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Mr.Marcus » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:35 pm

Rockatteer wrote:I disagree with you. I think this last episode was far from right.

We're still seeing Kitt used as a tool instead of a character. For example why the hell did Kitt just sit there through the whole bank robbers arrive scene? Kitt should have been in the middle of all that action, showing us what he's made of, bullets bouncing off him, lasers firing, saving people.. it could have been an awesome scene, but what do we get? Kitt calling 911 and a quick scene of bullets hitting him. WTF!!??

This show still has far too much focus on the people in my opinion.

Kitt needs to be the co-star of this show, not the car of the show.

I'm glad they've reduced the cast and the show is headed in the right direction, but they still have work to do, and they still[ don't seem to understand what Knight Rider is about.


All true which is why I said the show is far from perfect and many improvements need to be made. I think last week's episode was a big step in the proper direction though and they got it right relative to what we've been shown so far.

Sadly, I don't think KITT getting in the middle of the action will ever become a reality unless its all CG. The days of full blown practical stunts seem to be gone. Its funny b/c I was watching the A-team the other day and was amazed at the amount of real time car flips, explosions, fights, etc. that were done in one episode. Its no wonder it cost a fortune back then to produce one episode but this was when people were actually tuning in to watch and the shows had widespread appeal and success. Nowadays everyone just turns to CG b/c its less of a headache and easier to create something in a 100% controlled environment on a computer. Unfortunately, even the best movie quality CG still looks artificial. So until technology advances to a point where you can't tell at all whether something is CG or real and its cost effective enough to use on a weekly series I think every incarnation of KR will come up short if the guiding principle is to make KITT the star of the show and by extension one who is constantly in the middle of the action.

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Lost Knight » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:48 pm

Mr.Marcus wrote:Nowadays everyone just turns to CG b/c its less of a headache and easier to create something in a 100% controlled environment on a computer. Unfortunately, even the best movie quality CG still looks artificial. So until technology advances to a point where you can't tell at all whether something is CG or real and its cost effective enough to use on a weekly series I think every incarnation of KR will come up short if the guiding principle is to make KITT the star of the show and by extension one who is constantly in the middle of the action.


Well, that may be partially true, but Gary Scott Thompson brought up a very good point in one of his videos. He stated that television budgets are now much less than what they used to be because there are many more networks now than there were in the '80s, thus the money is more spread apart across more networks. And while C.G.I. is also expensive, I believe it will permanently be the way of the future for this reason. In the end it has to be cheaper than wrecking countless Mustangs and coordinating dangerous stunts throughout each episode.
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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Mr.Marcus » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:08 pm

Lost Knight wrote:
Mr.Marcus wrote:Nowadays everyone just turns to CG b/c its less of a headache and easier to create something in a 100% controlled environment on a computer. Unfortunately, even the best movie quality CG still looks artificial. So until technology advances to a point where you can't tell at all whether something is CG or real and its cost effective enough to use on a weekly series I think every incarnation of KR will come up short if the guiding principle is to make KITT the star of the show and by extension one who is constantly in the middle of the action.


Well, that may be partially true, but Gary Scott Thompson brought up a very good point in one of his videos. He stated that television budgets are now much less than what they used to be because there are many more networks now than there were in the '80s, thus the money is more spread apart across more networks. And while C.G.I. is also expensive, I believe it will permanently be the way of the future for this reason. In the end it has to be cheaper than wrecking countless Mustangs and coordinating dangerous stunts throughout each episode.


Of course its cheaper relative to practical stunts. I remember reading somewhere that just a small explosion requires closing down the street, paying businesses, having fire and medical on site ready to intervene if necessary, getting permits, having engineers come in and asses the technical aspects of the stunt, you also have legal and liability issues to deal with, etc. Its just simpler and easier to have someone at a computer create the explosion. This alone will make it the permanent way to go. CG or practical stunts isn't the issue, its the fact that CG looks fake. So if your guiding principle is that KITT should always be in the middle of the action then you have to accept that fake looking CG is the way networks will accomplish it. That's why until the technology advances to the point where CG actually looks completely real, any incarnation of KR will come up short. Unless you change the guiding principle to be that KITT is more prop than star of the show which hasn't worked well so far.

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Amir » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:41 pm

Lost Knight wrote:And speaking of the whole 'bank robbers arrive' scene, that in and of itself made no sense to me. Why would any group of people just show up and start shooting at everything moving for no real reason? Nobody was a threat to them at the time. And then for the main bad guy to not immediately shoot Mike when he acted up wasn't consistent with shooting everything just a few minutes earlier. Wouldn't the overall goal be to slip in undetected, rob the bank and get out?


Since they had to find a certain compartment in the vault and needed to convince the 'fifth guy' they brought along to talk, it was never going to be a short bank robbery.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. I watched 'Knightmares' from TOS today, and I could nitpick it for hours. But I wouldn't, because it's television, and I want it to be entertaining, not perfect.

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by ex812 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:49 pm

Considering there escape plan hinged on using the hostages to dupe the police into thinking they were the robbers it was logical to shoot up and get the polices attention.

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by krenigma » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:58 pm

Hey, enigma here from Master Key (the company behind the VFX on "Knight Rider").

TV has changed quite a bit since the 80's, your right, and doing practical chases, explosions, jumps, etc, has become exceedingly expensive and time consuming. As you said, police, closing down streets, days of safety prep, are all required to blow up a car or do a jump, and the KITT mustangs are very expensive, more so I would say relatively speaking to the original trans-ams used in the original series.

That said, I personally (and the best directors and showrunners I think agree with this) ALWAYS prefer a practical effect when it is possible. Look at "Dark Knight" and you'll see a director who really understands how to sell reality. But the budgets and time in TV are different, especially nowadays, there are fewer days then ever before to shoot and then post produce an episode, and that forces bottle necks that haven't always been around.

On "Knight Rider" for example, the first few turbo boosts were fully digital. The recent ones have been mixed, some digital but then doing the landing with real stunt car, and I think they work a lot better, and that came from experimentation, trial and error, and examining carefully what was possible on our budget and schedule.

Anyway, just a few thoughts from someone who sees these problems tackled every day...

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Lynda414 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:01 pm

krenigma wrote:Hey, enigma here from Master Key (the company behind the VFX on "Knight Rider").

TV has changed quite a bit since the 80's, your right, and doing practical chases, explosions, jumps, etc, has become exceedingly expensive and time consuming. As you said, police, closing down streets, days of safety prep, are all required to blow up a car or do a jump, and the KITT mustangs are very expensive, more so I would say relatively speaking to the original trans-ams used in the original series.

That said, I personally (and the best directors and showrunners I think agree with this) ALWAYS prefer a practical effect when it is possible. Look at "Dark Knight" and you'll see a director who really understands how to sell reality. But the budgets and time in TV are different, especially nowadays, there are fewer days then ever before to shoot and then post produce an episode, and that forces bottle necks that haven't always been around.

On "Knight Rider" for example, the first few turbo boosts were fully digital. The recent ones have been mixed, some digital but then doing the landing with real stunt car, and I think they work a lot better, and that came from experimentation, trial and error, and examining carefully what was possible on our budget and schedule.

Anyway, just a few thoughts from someone who sees these problems tackled every day...


You guys do awesome work. Especially given your time restraints. The new turbo boosts are better. Hopefully it pays off in the end and we see you guys in another season. That way we can see what other things you guys have refined through experimentation, and trial and error.

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Re: New Knight Rider on the Upswing

Post by Mr.Marcus » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:09 pm

krenigma wrote:Hey, enigma here from Master Key (the company behind the VFX on "Knight Rider").

TV has changed quite a bit since the 80's, your right, and doing practical chases, explosions, jumps, etc, has become exceedingly expensive and time consuming. As you said, police, closing down streets, days of safety prep, are all required to blow up a car or do a jump, and the KITT mustangs are very expensive, more so I would say relatively speaking to the original trans-ams used in the original series.

That said, I personally (and the best directors and showrunners I think agree with this) ALWAYS prefer a practical effect when it is possible. Look at "Dark Knight" and you'll see a director who really understands how to sell reality. But the budgets and time in TV are different, especially nowadays, there are fewer days then ever before to shoot and then post produce an episode, and that forces bottle necks that haven't always been around.

On "Knight Rider" for example, the first few turbo boosts were fully digital. The recent ones have been mixed, some digital but then doing the landing with real stunt car, and I think they work a lot better, and that came from experimentation, trial and error, and examining carefully what was possible on our budget and schedule.

Anyway, just a few thoughts from someone who sees these problems tackled every day...


I know you guys bust your butts doing the CG work and meeting deadlines. If you didn't do quality work then you wouldn't be hired by a corporation like NBC. Its not an issue of poor quality work, but an issue of the technology just not being there right now. The CG still has a strong artificial quality to it even in films with multi-million dollar budgets. But the CG looks better than it did 10 years ago, and in 10 years it will look even better, and so on. Its difficult to balance all this out with an action show whose star is a talking car. In other words, if you want a lot of action in which a car is the star then it has to be done with loads of CG today. People who want this need to understand and accept that reality. For me last week's episode was probably the best balance that I've seen so far of all these elements and an all around good episode. If future episodes are that well played, I'd tune in just to enjoy the episode rather than out of loyalty to the franchise.

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