PLEASE! Let it die!

[Knight-Armen]

Dude, did you see the fight? KARR had HUGE machineguns on his shoulders, not to mention missiles. If you watch the extended PreVis on Youtube, you'll also see that he had a laser. Additionally, "swinging his arms" isn't really trivial - he did a lot of damage to KI3T just by hitting him. I dunno, man, but a car fighting a huge battle robot and winning will always be epic in my book.

KARR can easily return - he is an amalgamation of KI3T's programming and KARR's base form. This was a government project; the robot was just a shell. What will stop them from building a new exoskeleton? How do we know that the NSA didn't make a backup of KARR's final programming? There are a lot of ways for KARR to come back - we just have to wait and see what happens.

KARR is KI3T's prototype in programming only. There's no correlation between their physical forms.

I must have missed it! It all went so fast

[lunchmeat]

Dude, did you see the fight? KARR had HUGE machineguns on his shoulders, not to mention missiles. If you watch the extended PreVis on Youtube, you'll also see that he had a laser. Additionally, "swinging his arms" isn't really trivial - he did a lot of damage to KI3T just by hitting him. I dunno, man, but a car fighting a huge battle robot and winning will always be epic in my book.

KARR can easily return - he is an amalgamation of KI3T's programming and KARR's base form. This was a government project; the robot was just a shell. What will stop them from building a new exoskeleton? How do we know that the NSA didn't make a backup of KARR's final programming? There are a lot of ways for KARR to come back - we just have to wait and see what happens.

KARR is KI3T's prototype in programming only. There's no correlation between their physical forms.

I must have missed it! It all went so fast

Ah, yeah, sorry.....well, it was supposed to be swinging arms of death, HUGE machineguns, and missiles, but NBC edited it so it was more like armsodeathHUGEgunsmissileBOOM! Can't really fault you there.

[Victor Kros]

DISCLAIMER - I'm just going to say this because I don't want to get involved in the whole politics of who likes this show and who dislikes it, lord knows there's enough of those threads already. Just so there is no confusion here, these are my personal opinons based on experience and research, they are opinion and not factual unless noted.

Regarding "KARR?" however (KARRE/KARR? Which is it?)

That brainless GoBot was related to the original KARR in name only. This KARRE, or KARR or whatever they wish to call it lacked everything that made KARR a formidable nemesis to begin with. No personality, no real independent thought and the genetic marksmanship of a Stormtrooper. With such so called advanced weaponry, his missiles couldn't hit the broad side of a Universal Studios Tram bus.

At least he managed to get a few bullet hits on KITT's hood although it seems said damage did nothing to the function of the car itself -- a car that didn't have any protection at the time it was hit since the bullet holes did not repair themselves.

So the prototype weapon of the future allegedly recreated by the NSA doesn't have state of the art targeting equipment? Really? Oh maybe you're thinking, but they needed to show SKI MODE in a cool way! So I guess sacraficing probably one of the more effective weapons in KARR's arsonal was the trade off eh?

Let's not forget that KITT's nanoskin/shields were disabled which pretty much means turbo boosting through the center of a 18? foot tall solid steel robot is like slamming head on into the front of a mac truck -- With a head on collision like that, KITT should have crumpled up like a soda can...but that's the "television magic" Glen loves to refer to.

The fact that they continue to toss TOS bones to the fans by dropping names and not giving us any character substance to the names they continue to refer to is another reason that original fans who gave Knight Rider its value before this show came around will continue to dislike this series and its "new direction". Perhaps the "new audience" doesn't care about original mythology or history but mark my words, this show is and continues to be Knight Rider in name only and whether the "new generation" embraces or rejects this series it will be what people wish to make of it for better or worse.

Whether you like it or hate it is really irrelevant at this point because NBC is going to do what they wish to do, not what the fans continue to ask them to do. The suits at NBC do not care about story, character, depth, etc...they care about money and how they can milk every dime out of a show that's been built around showing off their sponsor's car. Ratings are just used as an excuse to discard a show after it has served its money making purpose.

Don't believe me? What was the main marketing point of the backdoor pilot? What was the main marketing point of the new series? Was it the stars? No, you know what everyone kept hearing? How damn impressive and great the almighty Shelby GT500KR is and the constant quoting of stats over and over again, 500 HP time and time again --- Then they had to sell us on liking the concept of the Attack KITT which arguable was met with mixed reaction. It has and always will be more about selling a product than selling substance with this network.

I got news for you fans, unless I'm mistaken the GT500KRs run has been sold out so you really have to ask yourself what is left for NBC to sell to want to keep this series going? Perhaps a GT500KR 2010 model or the 2010 Mustang?

I'll get more into that and the episode in another thread on another site.

Yes it is called "Knight Rider", but as far as "KARR" goes I believe I agree with what the original KARR has to say regarding his predecessors:

"What you saw was merely an inferior production line model; a pale copy of the original."

=VK=

[Faithful Car KRO]

"What you saw was merely an inferior production line model; a pale copy of the original."

OH YAY! This crap again!

[Victor Kros]

"What you saw was merely an inferior production line model; a pale copy of the original."

OH YAY! This crap again!

- So let me get this straight, are you wishing to say that this statement is inaccurate? As a matter of opinion I have a right to say what I wish as long as its respectful and complies with the rules. I am expressing that right. Your response was less than respectful. If you have something useful to contribute to the topic, I'm all ears.

Furthermore when you compare 5 minutes of screen time to about over an hour of screen time collectively with Trust Doesn't Rust and K.I.T.T. vs. K.A.R.R., the original K.A.R.R. was both superior in character development, verbal comprehension, and presentation (you actually had K.A.R.R .interacting with K.I.T.T. in verbal exchanges, you saw K.A.R.R'.s VOX, etc.)

Given that they did not actually link this new KARR(E) to the original KARR save for one line spoken by Billy which was then contridicted later by Graiman, I stand by my original view that this was a "pale copy" of the original name and character persona.

If you want to debate weapons and transformation technologies, then by all means the new K.A.R.R.(E) is superior in that department.

=VK=

[Jay]

Nick, please watch the KARR battle pre-vis that Master Key put up on YouTube and try and tell me again KARR had no character...

[Sky_Blue_Civic]

When it came to KARR in this episode, I have to agree with VK here. We don't even know if it's a new AI just bearing his name, or if it's 80's KARR. We hardly got any KITT vs KARR...heck, in this episode we hardly got any KI3T to begin with. All he had was a couple of lines protesting, and that's until the end... when there's hardly anything going on with KARR. I was expecting some more. The plot was great, in my opinion, and it's been the best plot for any episode so far. The thing that in a way does sadden me is how they bash the KR VFX team, and the actors. They have little control of the storyline. The biggest blame is NBC. They're cutting budgets, and they didn't give any effort in supporting the show, and also they didn't give much promotion. I saw the pre-vis, and I found it amazingly well done considering that this was made for a TV show. KR in the end does have potential, and it still does because I know that there is more that KR can do as a show. We need more effort, and more good plots like what we had in the last 3 episodes. And what kind of Knight Rider fan would tell people to let this show die?

But maybe there's a possibility that this episode was a test to see if people still have any interest in KARR.

[Victor Kros]

Nick, please watch the KARR battle pre-vis that Master Key put up on YouTube and try and tell me again KARR had no character...

I did watch the pre-vis footage and it is irrelevant. The sequence wasn't in the script as MKF pointed out in their long webchat video. I think MKF gets what K.A.R.R. should have been and built their pre-vis work around it versus what he actually became after the editors and NBC suits got ahold of it.

What he became is what is now "canon" in their "new mythology" and I base my opinions upon that presentation not the "what could have been" theories. Based upon what was the final presentation, my points about their KARR(E) being a pale copy of the original remain justified.

Clearly they had no idea if the new K.A.R.R. was related to the original one or a brand new seperate entity. I don't blame MKF for their spectacular work --- like they said, they're following the orders of GST and the writers. They don't have control over story direction and anything they want to do from a visual effect standpoint they have to fight for like SKI MODE. As they stated in the video this is another department and that I feel is where the blame continues to lie with the series' shortcomings.

If it didn't make the final cut and it wasn't in the script, it might as well not exist.

=VK=

[Faithful Car KRO]

- So let me get this straight, are you wishing to say that this statement is inaccurate? As a matter of opinion I have a right to say what I wish as long as its respectful and complies with the rules. I am expressing that right. Your response was less than respectful. If you have something useful to contribute to the topic, I'm all ears.

I must apologize, I was not meaning disrespect.
In all honesty, it was mockery.
Not of your opinions, but of you bias.

Furthermore when you compare 5 minutes of screen time to about over an hour of screen time collectively with Trust Doesn't Rust and K.I.T.T. vs. K.A.R.R., the original K.A.R.R. was both superior in character development, verbal comprehension, and presentation (you actually had K.A.R.R .interacting with K.I.T.T. in verbal exchanges, you saw K.A.R.R'.s VOX, etc.)

But the thing is, this episode was only promoted to be a transistion to FLAG, using KARR as the means to do so.
While I do feel they disrespected the original KARR, they had to find away of making a use out of him for this series.
And, in the long run, what they discussed of the KARR project in this episode opens the doors for KARR to come back.
First, KARR was the NSA's little baby, like they'll give their creation up that easily?
In fact we learned that the KI3T project was created for the sole purpose was for the inevitible return to KARR.
Right there it gives the new KARR a real back story, a tie to Mike's, KR&D's and FLAGs past.
True, the character itself was used more as a plot device, but the fact they left KARR out of so much helped the fact it was aquick fight for a throw away character. But I dont think it's that important in the long run. They gave KARR a history, we know what he has done and why he was out for no good.
And as a whole in the series, since KARR was introduced, he provided something the show needed, a focus point. It gave them something to aim for in getting us to FLAG.
For that, I believe KARR was utilized for what they created him for.

Given that they did not actually link this new KARR(E) to the original KARR save for one line spoken by Billy which was then contridicted later by Graiman, I stand by my original view that this was a "pale copy" of the original name and character persona.

How can it be a pale copy? Because it didnt have that many lines? Cause it was only there for a few minutes?
Cause he didnt quote the original show word for word?
I think we're let down because you cant compete with an original evil, and they didnt try.
They did what they've been doing since the show started, giving us little nudges to the original but not letting it take everything completely over.
The original KARR was a throw-away character. He was only brought back by fan demands.
That was the nail in the coffin. They should have kept KARR dead after TDR, bringing him back after he fell off a cliff and blew up was stupid. Did they ever give us an explanation how it survived?
That why I have no problem with there being a new KARR.
Because the first one is gone. We all have made up theories and crazy stupid explainations for 20 some years, but when it comes down to it..... what the hell is the point.
It's a TV show. About a TALKING CAR. That DRIVES ITSELF. And JUMPS 10 FEET IN THE AIR WITH A PUSH OF A BUTTON!!
It's not rocket science, or Pulitzer winning. The show isn't going to set a new standard for broadcast television. How can it be so obsessive?

[Knight-Armen]

Ah, yeah, sorry.....well, it was supposed to be swinging arms of death, HUGE machineguns, and missiles, but NBC edited it so it was more like armsodeathHUGEgunsmissileBOOM! Can't really fault you there.

Hehe, no probs

It's just that when I saw the fight I wasn't looking for missiles or machine guns at first. I expected Karr to use them before I got to think about them (if you know what I mean). Although when he started to use his arms to bash Kitt I started to wonder about his weapons and indeed if he has got any, next thing you know is Kitt turbo boosts into him and the fight is over. At that point I couldn't tell...

Anyways, now I know

[Knight4life]

The original KARR was a throw-away character. He was only brought back by fan demands.
That was the nail in the coffin. They should have kept KARR dead after TDR, bringing him back after he fell off a cliff and blew up was stupid. Did they ever give us an explanation how it survived?
That why I have no problem with there being a new KARR.
Because the first one is gone. We all have made up theories and crazy stupid explainations for 20 some years, but when it comes down to it..... what the hell is the point.
It's a TV show. About a TALKING CAR. That DRIVES ITSELF. And JUMPS 10 FEET IN THE AIR WITH A PUSH OF A BUTTON!!
It's not rocket science, or Pulitzer winning. The show isn't going to set a new standard for broadcast television. How can it be so obsessive?

Agreed

[PHOENIXZERO]

Of course it's not Pulitzer winning, nothing on TV is since Pulitzers are for authors of articles in newspapers. If you're going to go that way about it, you might as well use an award the show could actually get nominated for such as an Emmy. Why can't it be Emmy worthy? Because the writers deemed it a stupid, silly and absurdly cheesy show? Here's a shock just because it's Knight Rider doesn't mean it can't be well written.

But the thing is, this episode was only promoted to be a transistion to FLAG, using KARR as the means to do so.
While I do feel they disrespected the original KARR, they had to find away of making a use out of him for this series.

No it wasn't, all the promotion, well what little promotion NBC did was completely centered around KARR. They even went to say on the website that "KARR is back!" Yeah, he was back alright, for less than four minutes.

That was the nail in the coffin. They should have kept KARR dead after TDR, bringing him back after he fell off a cliff and blew up was stupid. Did they ever give us an explanation how it survived?

What? Being a nearly indestructible car that landed on a beach and was buried isn't enough? They might not have went out of their way to explain how the Knight 2000/KARR survived the fall but I think it's obvious enough. As for the exploding issue, at least they actually mention it in KvK, even if there's no explanation one could come up with one that works within just a single sentence. But at least they had the balls to address it and not ignore that he went off a cliff they saw him "explode" where as this new series would likely sweep such a thing under the rug due to their completely inconsistent writing where they contradict themselves almost every week. The original series wasn't perfect in this regard but there at least seemed to be some effort to keep things straight. Not to mention they didn't try to shove two hours into an hour long program, resulting in making things seem rushed with horrible pacing either like this show, they actually knew how to write a beginning, a middle and an end. There seems to be only two, maybe three decent writers on the staff and its no surprise that they're the ones who have written more than one episode.

I find it funny how you have to rush right in here and jump on VK for stating his opinion as if he's saying something that hasn't already been said or isn't true.

Then again it seems like you think this new show is superior to the original, from the theme to the VFX (which are going to look even more dated than the original series's in the same amount of time due to the nature of CGI) to the writing, in pretty much every way.

For over a year now that I've regularly been here I was defending the hell out of the backdoor pilot and the new series but I can no longer do that and haven't been able to since I took the blinders off months ago. In some areas I will still and continue to defend the new show, but I'm not going to be a blind fanboy and act as if this show is living up to its potential in the least bit. Their use of KARR was a complete and utter joke and a blatant slap in the face to fans of the original series and KARR, which like it or not make up what's left of their audience. There's a good reason why the backdoor pilot had nearly 13 million viewers and the new show only started out with seven, then five and now less than five million with this last episode. It's NOT because of competition or preemption, it's because NBC (and GST) FAILED in delivering the show they should have from the start, hell I'll even take that back to the pilot which also failed in giving people what they actually wanted. This episode is a bit like the pilot in bringing back KARR, like Hasselhoff, they completely wasted that opportunity too. You can blame the ratings drop on AI, you can blame it on the Lost premiere, just like the the Dancing with the Stars and Bones excuses before it, but you're kidding yourself if you think this show is "holding strong" when it's getting beaten (and on a regular basis) by a show on Univision in key demos and occasionally in total viewers, no it's not holding strong, it's just holding on, barely. Stop making excuses and put the blame where it belongs, on NBC and more so it seems Gary Scott Thompson for the direction this show took. People do know it's still on, they just choose not to watch it, especially if there's something better on.

Was this episode terrible? Hell no, it's one of the better ones but that doesn't change the fact that it's so far the biggest disappointment also.. I said months ago that the KARR episode would make or break this series and I still think I'm right. We'll see how next week's shuffled around episode is and what the ratings are. I'm sure they'll probably rebound a bit but it's not going to be some massive improvement. Oh and has anyone seen a Knight Rider commercial on NBC yet? No? Oh....

[KnightINSTINCT]

PHOENIXZERO is correct on one thing. Knight to King's Pawn is being scrutinized over the tactic for promotion, and it's focus. But this episode obviously wanted to focus on the uniforming of a new team, not a battle with KARR and KITT.

NBC used to pump out the commercials featuring just KITT. Justin Bruening advertises Knight Rider's web page for KITT on NBC.COM. And this is KARR's (probably) only appearance to the series. THE FANS were anticipating this like it was going to be their only real meal out of the entire week. So, the only marketing value for this episode of course was going to be KARR, regardless what the rest of the story was going to involve..and it involved a lot.

Victor Kross, your points are right on. I can't throw any contradiction to any of it, except I don't believe this show necessarily exists for the sake of Mustang sales. If you want to recall, Pontiac actually advertised the Trans AM using Knight Rider clips....effing unreal!!! How can people on here, and even you, insist on claiming this show to be a Ford commercial? It's got the brand during the intro.....I suppose it's worthy for some more crackin' ain't it?

[GT500KR]

"I got news for you fans, unless I'm mistaken the GT500KRs run has been sold out so you really have to ask yourself what is left for NBC to sell to want to keep this series going? Perhaps a GT500KR 2010 model or the 2010 Mustang?"

What are u talking about? KR are having a hard time going off the lot, its because the economy. At least Ford isnt adverstising like it was for the Pilot. If it gets a second a season, KITT will probably change into a 2010 GT500 or Mustang, unless Shelby and Ford still wants to keep the GT500KR still going.

[Skav]

hell I'll even take that back to the pilot which also failed in giving people what they actually wanted

But even you must admit the KR 08 pilot was much better than any previous attempt at re-incarnating the series. It might not have given us everything that we wanted but it succeeded in most areas.

[PHOENIXZERO]

Is it better than any other KR incarnation since the original series? Absolutuly, but it's not really saying much seeing how bad KR2000, KR2010 (counting the unused scripts also) and TKR were. I'd even go as far as to say it's better than all of them combined.

[necrophilissimo]

One question to ALL haters; If you don't like it, why don't you go watching something else instead and let us enjoy the show? Not like the sole existence of one TV show makes your existence an agony or anything

EDIT: Personally I never understood hate towards TV shows, especially 'let's sent cancel-appeal-letters' kind. If you don't like a show, you don't have to watch it. It doesn't mean you're entitled to trying to kill the show for those who do like it.

For instance, I can't stand CSI:MIAMI (as opposed to loving the original). For me nothing in the show works; Zero character chemistry, sub-par scripts and so on. But I don't campaing for the cancellation of it, I just don't watch it.

[cazman101]

If people who watch the show tend to fans of KR but when things go bad you can't expect people to just sit there and take it they are allowed their opinions and if they points are valid ones and the production see it and take it on board then and critisism that makes the show better is surely worth while.

[suave6565]

I have to agree with Victor 110%...i see eye to eye with you!

I can compare all i want and this place becomes an all out war of comparison.

My opinion, I'm looking at this as totally new show: no reference to the old...but i can't help to see how bad is the acting and the writing is. Do you really think they can continue like this?

If this show wasn't called "knight Rider", i think half of you wouldn't tune in. but that's just my opinion...

All i see here is,Why this....Why that,Why they didn't....too many "Why's" about this show...

I'm sorry but im being realistic...If the writing keeps this up and the ratings continue to go down, I wonder how many people are going to be surprised if this show doesn't make it to a second season?

I'm glad they are making changes to the show. for the better, i hope so...at least NBC doesn't seem like they are not completely in the dark. This show has the potential to be a great show with All the tools and technology out there. I guess We will have to see...
Does anyone know when NBC plans to announce the upcoming season shows??

[cazman101]

i think its about end of march early april to allow time for the production to bone up for the filming which normally starts in september.

[Mr.Marcus]

I hope this show gets canceled. They've had 3 chances to get KR right and they haven't. Time to accept they don't know what they are doing and move on. I was open to the possibility up until KARR and the way he was thrown in as some token villain clearly demonstrated to me that they don't get it. If you're going to bring back KR it should be as good if not better than the original. Not worse. There's no excuse for that. Time to end it.

[PunkMaister]

I hope this show gets canceled. They've had 3 chances to get KR right and they haven't. Time to accept they don't know what they are doing and move on. I was open to the possibility up until KARR and the way he was thrown in as some token villain clearly demonstrated to me that they don't get it. If you're going to bring back KR it should be as good if not better than the original. Not worse. There's no excuse for that. Time to end it.

You are an idiot if you think it should just be canned because if it does as you wish it is the end of the franchise as a viable one, from then on rest assured everyone that it will be forever on nothing more than another dead franchise only alive in fanclubs for all time, the end, Now you might more than happy for the K.R franchise to end that way but a lot of us here don't feel that way.

[Mr.Marcus]

I hope this show gets canceled. They've had 3 chances to get KR right and they haven't. Time to accept they don't know what they are doing and move on. I was open to the possibility up until KARR and the way he was thrown in as some token villain clearly demonstrated to me that they don't get it. If you're going to bring back KR it should be as good if not better than the original. Not worse. There's no excuse for that. Time to end it.

You are an idiot if you think it should just be canned because if it does as you wish it is the end of the franchise as a viable one, from then on rest assured everyone that it will be forever on nothing more than another dead franchise only alive in fanclubs for all time, the end, Now you might more than happy for the K.R franchise to end that way but a lot of us here don't feel that way.

LOL I'm not the idiot supporting a show that's gonna be AXED!!! Does that depress you to know just how alone you really are? Does it make you feel responsible for KR08's current predicament? They aren't getting viewers pal. I'd rather have no KR than a shoddy product that disgraces the KR history and essence. Its TKR all over again. I'm ecstatic that its gonna get canceled. And if you think otherwise you are on crack. NBC has washed their hands off this abomination. No more promotions, no more episodes, nothing. Can't wait till the fall slate comes out and KR isn't on there!!!!!

[PHOENIXZERO]

Ahh, Punkmaister going after and insulting people again, how nice.

Err, filming usually starts in late spring/early summer so a show can premiere somewhere between late August and early October, though it depends on the show. We will likely no by April, if not sooner. If there's no confirmation before hand we better look out for April Fools jokes.

[PunkMaister]

LOL I'm not the idiot supporting a show that's gonna be AXED!!! Does that depress you to know just how alone you really are? Does it make you feel responsible for KR08's current predicament? They aren't getting viewers pal. I'd rather have no KR than a shoddy product that disgraces the KR history and essence. Its TKR all over again. I'm ecstatic that its gonna get canceled. And if you think otherwise you are on crack. NBC has washed their hands off this abomination. No more promotions, no more episodes, nothing. Can't wait till the fall slate comes out and KR isn't on there!!!!!

The thing that depresses me is that there is people like you on this world that love franchises to forever die and cannot wait for their inminent demise.


Some fan you turned out to be...