PLEASE! Let it die!

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Mr.Marcus
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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Mr.Marcus » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:56 am

CJaguar442 wrote:give the new series a chance dude
knight rider will never die :mrgreen: :kitt:


They've had 3. How many more should I give them? Seriously, how many more times? 5,10,15 chances? The KARR episode was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:08 pm

how many it takes!! :mrgreen: :twisted:
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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Shapeshifter » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:26 pm

Knight-Armen wrote:
I think this is a bit of an Oxymoron.

Flawless to whom? The original show certainly wasn't flawless. And, you HAVE to update it, but how much? Anybody's vision for the show is sure to displease someone, but at the end of the day, someone has to take the reins and make a TV show. And then it becomes a stationary target for anyone with a computer and a dream.


Who is to say that TOS is flawless? I didn't say it was! All I'm saying is that everyone would like a flawless season of Knight Rider. Now, what you consider to be flawless I might not and vice versa. PunkMaister said that there are people in this forum who wants the show canned along with the franchise and all I'm implying is that there are various types of likes and dislikes in this forum. I bet you yourself would like some things changed in the show. If not then if you would be the director of this series I bet you would have done it differently than GST (given that you haven't seen GST's version of it).
How many Knight Rider fans do you know of who'd like to end the franchise? I'm guessing very few (if none)!
How many Knight Rider fans do you know of who'd like GST's version to end? I'm guessing a lot more!


Listen, I think we're really arguing the same thing here. If fact, you said in your response what I'd implied--that flawless is really a subjective term. I was really saying that, in general, it's easy to criticize. It's a lot harder to actually do it.

Having said that, I agree that the feeling here is that someone else might have done a better job with the franchise. Andron might have been a good choice in retrospect, but NBC would never have given the reins to someone with so little experience. Remember, they weren't going to make the series at first, after the critical drubbing the 2-hour received. They had offered Andron a script deal only. They didn't commit to a full-blown production order until GST was brought on board.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Mr.Marcus » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:30 pm

CJaguar442 wrote:how many it takes!! :mrgreen: :twisted:


Forget that. That's not how progress is made.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:41 pm

Mr.Marcus wrote:
CJaguar442 wrote:how many it takes!! :mrgreen: :twisted:


Forget that. That's not how progress is made.


neither is giving 900 billion in stimulus packages to bankrupt companies who contiune to lay off and give themselves bonus when the first bailout failed :roll:
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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Shapeshifter » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:47 pm

Mr.Marcus wrote:
CJaguar442 wrote:how many it takes!! :mrgreen: :twisted:


Forget that. That's not how progress is made.


I'm not sure what that means. One thing to keep in mind is that, once this goes off the air, it will be quite some time, if ever, before a new version of the show is seen, whether TV or feature. So, I think it behooves all of us to support this show while it is on. After all, the die is cast; all the shows they are going to do this season have been done.
Bitching about it will do nothing to change what we're going to see over the next few weeks, except perhaps hasten it's demise. And once it's gone, it's gone. For the forseeable future, anyway.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Mr.Marcus » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:17 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:
Mr.Marcus wrote:
CJaguar442 wrote:how many it takes!! :mrgreen: :twisted:


Forget that. That's not how progress is made.


I'm not sure what that means. One thing to keep in mind is that, once this goes off the air, it will be quite some time, if ever, before a new version of the show is seen, whether TV or feature. So, I think it behooves all of us to support this show while it is on. After all, the die is cast; all the shows they are going to do this season have been done.
Bitching about it will do nothing to change what we're going to see over the next few weeks, except perhaps hasten it's demise. And once it's gone, it's gone. For the forseeable future, anyway.


And? I think I've made my point abundantly clear. I would rather have no KR than a crappy version masquerading as Knight Rider. You mention the phrase "the die is cast" which Seutonius records as being uttered by Caesar just before he crossed the Rubicon. But Caesar knew that if his attempts to secure power failed, he would be completely annihilated. He weighed the risk and chose civil war anyway. He was victorious b/c he made good decisions. KR was not b/c bad decisions were made. Its now time to pay the piper. And if that means no KR for sometime, so be it.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Shapeshifter » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:32 pm

Hmmm.

First of all, kudos for the Caeser reference. You're well read. Nice.

As far as 'bad decisions', again, according to whom? Decisions were made that you don't agree with. The value judgements are purely subjective.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:55 pm

The thing is, there are still alot of people, including myself, who actually like this show and do not feel it is a crappy version masquerading as Knight Rider.
I actually love this, and after watching this and watching the original and the other attempts to bring the franchise back, I'm gonna state that version is my favorite rehash of the KR name.
In some cases I actually like this show better than the original.
Does that make me a bad fan? No.
Should it? No.
Everyone has their own ideas what KR should be, it doesnt mean yours is wrong, it doesnt mean my is right.
It's a matter of opinion.
It becomes disrespectful to say other's opinions are invalid when brought up against yours.
And going right out and saying the show should die is disrespectful to the franchise.
Because, whether you choose to accept it or not, this show is Knight Rider. Not a show masquerading. That's not opinion, that's fact.
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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Mr.Marcus » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:29 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:Hmmm.

First of all, kudos for the Caeser reference. You're well read. Nice.

As far as 'bad decisions', again, according to whom? Decisions were made that you don't agree with. The value judgements are purely subjective.


Yes but the subjective opinions on the show have practical effects. It may not be right or fair, but those are the rules of a tv show whose existence is solely dependent on ratings. In this case the people have spoken and its ratings aren't doing well which means the people don't like it which means creative decisions were poor since a product that the public would like and watch was not made.

Also, this isn't a show where all KR fans are on board. Usually, a soon to be canceled show has a loyal cult following and just doesn't strike the right cord with the masses. KR08 is in the peculiar position of having divided support of the fanbase as evidence by the numerous dissenting opinions here from loyal KR fans. This speaks volumes about the quality of the product.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by t.b.77b » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:59 pm

CJaguar442 wrote:give the new series a chance dude
knight rider will never die :mrgreen: :kitt:


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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Shapeshifter » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:05 pm

Mr.Marcus wrote:
Shapeshifter wrote:Hmmm.

First of all, kudos for the Caeser reference. You're well read. Nice.

As far as 'bad decisions', again, according to whom? Decisions were made that you don't agree with. The value judgements are purely subjective.


Yes but the subjective opinions on the show have practical effects. It may not be right or fair, but those are the rules of a tv show whose existence is solely dependent on ratings. In this case the people have spoken and its ratings aren't doing well which means the people don't like it which means creative decisions were poor since a product that the public would like and watch was not made.

Also, this isn't a show where all KR fans are on board. Usually, a soon to be canceled show has a loyal cult following and just doesn't strike the right cord with the masses. KR08 is in the peculiar position of having divided support of the fanbase as evidence by the numerous dissenting opinions here from loyal KR fans. This speaks volumes about the quality of the product.


To your first paragraph, I give you "Pushing Daisys" and "Friday Night Lights". Both critically acclaimed shows, shows that you might argue made a lot of good decisions, and yet no one watches (watched) them.

As far as the split KR community, I'll give you that, but I think you're talking apples and oranges when it comes to loyal cult followings. Updating a 25 year old show that was very much a product of it time is very tricky, I'm sure you'll concede. A literal update would, in my opinion, alienate almost all but the KR fan base. To the extent you vary from the original formula you create differences of opinion at to the validity of the update, hence a fan split.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by knight14 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:23 pm

Mr.Marcus wrote:
Shapeshifter wrote:Hmmm.

First of all, kudos for the Caeser reference. You're well read. Nice.

As far as 'bad decisions', again, according to whom? Decisions were made that you don't agree with. The value judgements are purely subjective.


Yes but the subjective opinions on the show have practical effects. It may not be right or fair, but those are the rules of a tv show whose existence is solely dependent on ratings. In this case the people have spoken and its ratings aren't doing well which means the people don't like it which means creative decisions were poor since a product that the public would like and watch was not made.

Also, this isn't a show where all KR fans are on board. Usually, a soon to be canceled show has a loyal cult following and just doesn't strike the right cord with the masses. KR08 is in the peculiar position of having divided support of the fanbase as evidence by the numerous dissenting opinions here from loyal KR fans. This speaks volumes about the quality of the product.


Your still here, your kidding me. Your not a hard core KR franchise fan your just a troll who likes to bash the franchise. Why does this thread even exist mods?

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Mr.Marcus » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:57 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:
Mr.Marcus wrote:
Shapeshifter wrote:Hmmm.

First of all, kudos for the Caeser reference. You're well read. Nice.

As far as 'bad decisions', again, according to whom? Decisions were made that you don't agree with. The value judgements are purely subjective.


Yes but the subjective opinions on the show have practical effects. It may not be right or fair, but those are the rules of a tv show whose existence is solely dependent on ratings. In this case the people have spoken and its ratings aren't doing well which means the people don't like it which means creative decisions were poor since a product that the public would like and watch was not made.

Also, this isn't a show where all KR fans are on board. Usually, a soon to be canceled show has a loyal cult following and just doesn't strike the right cord with the masses. KR08 is in the peculiar position of having divided support of the fanbase as evidence by the numerous dissenting opinions here from loyal KR fans. This speaks volumes about the quality of the product.


To your first paragraph, I give you "Pushing Daisys" and "Friday Night Lights". Both critically acclaimed shows, shows that you might argue made a lot of good decisions, and yet no one watches (watched) them.

As far as the split KR community, I'll give you that, but I think you're talking apples and oranges when it comes to loyal cult followings. Updating a 25 year old show that was very much a product of it time is very tricky, I'm sure you'll concede. A literal update would, in my opinion, alienate almost all but the KR fan base. To the extent you vary from the original formula you create differences of opinion at to the validity of the update, hence a fan split.


Apples and oranges. Unlike the shows you've mentioned, every media outlet has blasted KR for being a poor product. So not only do the masses hate it but the critics as well. Now I can see the argument that the masses not liking it doesn't mean the creative decisions were bad, after all the critics for the shows you mentioned liked the creative directions of those respective shows. But when you don't have any critics supporting your show at all, can you still lay the claim that the creative decisions are not bad? Do you really want to go there? What's next, some kind of massive conspiracy by the media to bash KR?

I think supporters of KR08 misunderstand what people in my position want. We don't want a literal update of the 80s series. We want a good KR series that retains the essence of what 80s KR was all about. Instead what we have is a mystery meat product that takes from a lot of sources but doesn't get the combination right. It emulates transformers with its attack mode conversion, it tries to match the Clark/Lana angst of Smallville by pitting Michael and Sarah together, etc. But none of these things fit the series or the concept hence the multiple reboots. Not only that but it doesn't take advantage of the abundant story opportunities in its own history. Rather than develop KARR and flesh him out they spend time on Billy playing XBOX or Billy and Zoe exchanging useless dialogue. There's something really wrong with this current formula. It doesn't work, it doesn't make sense, it isn't good, and most importantly it doesn't live up to its potential.
Last edited by Mr.Marcus on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by t.b.77b » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:59 pm

Why does this thread even exist mods?


I think a lot of people have asked this question. This thread has turned into a war-zone.
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Re: PLEASE! Let it die!

Post by Matthew » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:45 pm

I think it's fair to say that this thread has not only reached, but also passed the point of no return.

Please do not attempt to continue this volatile subject of discussion in other threads, as we'll be forced to place warnings onto the account of anyone that attempts to do so, and remove the posts in question.

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