Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Shredder565 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:17 am

Fans on another message board I visit pretty much agree with the fans and their points here. So it's not just a coincidence. Most felt it was too rushed, and not enough KARR.

And here is another thing.

If the folks new about the history of KARR, let alone DR.Graimen and what happened with KARR mark 1, why would he create another one? Surley there has to be some footage of the original KARR and what he did in the Knight archives. Just a whole lot of missed opportunities here...

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by tosil » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:17 am

NBC said it themselves... " This Wednesday, The Epic Battle Begins"... so, I'm guessing the middle, and the end of the battle are still to come? Right???? come on NBC, throw me a bone here.... :| but I do have to say, except for the battle, the rest is actually a great way to "re-start" the show........again.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Judd » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:21 am

I watched this last night on a HD plasma screen. My hat is off to the effects team. The visuals were very impressive. Deanna looks pretty good in HD too. I was really looking forward to this episode. I was disappointed. They should have titled it "Waiting for KARR." I think they blew a major opportunity to get the series back in the public eye. KITT Vs. KARR was so much better. As fans we find the contunity confusing. I bet casual fans were confused also. The story didn't make snese. Why kill off Graiman and then make him a hologram the next episode? We can speculate but we didn't get a godd explaination of how KARR operates, what KARR is or when/why we was built. It was just a mess. The showdown was way too short and anti climatic. It was too talky and confusing.

I'm guessing the network doesn't care about the show at this point since they are doing zero promotion for it. The formula in the original series worked and could work today but the new team thought they were much smarter than they were back then and did something very different and it just isn't working for the audience.

I'll keep watching but I don't think we'll get another season. They've made too many mistakes.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by _K3000_ » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:31 am

Man what an awesme episode last night! everything from Graiman's holagram telling Mike about his past to him telling sara to rebuild FLAG again whoo! But what i really thought standed out is that Mike called KITT buddy. (TOS Reference awesome :good: ) Now that this FLAG mentions are back you kinda wonder will they bring in Hasselhoff? who knows NBC WAKE UP DAMMIT nows the chance! The whole battle between KITT and KARR was short yes but clearly justified. If you made it to long i really think that would have defeated the purpose of finally killing him PERIOD! Peter Cullens Performance=AWESOME! :good: The ending with graiman congradulating them and than telling them about wiltons dream.come on i did not see that coming i was just like perfect script writing. And now i know some people are saying so much wasted opurtunity's for mike saying one man can make a difference! I think they are waiting for one percise perfect moment for him saying it! Just hold on people its coming! An d my final part that is awesome is that they all agreed to stay and work together and KITT once again telling sara that he will do anything to help calling graiman his father as well. That part again :good:
:kitt: VS :karr: gets a 10/10 in my books! NBC please wake up NOW! bring in the HOFF and save this show!
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Lost Knight » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:32 am

knightendo77 wrote:GST said at ComicCon that KARR would "return". It's the same KARR.


No, it's not. This K.A.R.R. was a military-funded project who was used in Iraq with Mike as his driver and ONLY driver. This means either it's a new timeline, or somehow Charles Graiman completely forgot about the problems with the original K.A.R.R. and somehow the same mistake happened twice with a subsequent vehicle of the same name. I really don't see how people can think otherwise...

knightendo77 wrote:And besides, it's creative suicide to take the pilot and say "right that's the pilot for this series, but we're ignoring this and this and this...". It's the same cast, car, theme etc, talk about confusing the casual viewer if you decided to ignore certain things! You can do that when you bring back a movie franchise years after it's finished, or when you REMAKE an old TV series, but you don't do that with the pilot movie for the series you've been given to produce. So no, I believe GST did change lots of things but he's not contradicting anything put out in the pilot, he's just changed and advanced some stuff like any series does after a pilot.


But that's exactly what happened. If you think it's not, try making any sense of plot points established in this new series with that of the original aside from the mention of Michael Long in the first episode. If there's anything this series is a continuation of, it's the backdoor pilot and it's even pretty much ignored that as well. How about some follow-up information on that mysterious Jenny character who happened to be Mike's mother? Or what of those scattered Knight 2000 parts hanging in Graiman's garage? You are correct that he didn't technically change anything in the backdoor pilot, but he's also done nothing to answer any questions presented in it, either.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:36 am

You are correct that he didn't technically change anything in the backdoor pilot, but he's also done nothing to answer any questions presented in it, either.


Gary Scott Thompson provide answers, especially straight ones? That would be a first! :mrgreen:

kitt2k wrote:Again the writer/director/whoever can NOT pace a show to save their lives.....we can waste a whole bunch of money taking the cast and some crew to Hawaii to waste a bunch more episode time to film poor Sarah dealing with the loss of Daddy, and then rush/cut back on the whole reason I and many others were excited about the show, KARR's return, because there was no more time or money.


Dammit, that's something I forgot to mention even though I had been thinking it since I saw that pointless scene. What was the point of shooting in Hawaii for less than five minutes? Did GST want to take a short vacation? They could have easily faked Hawaii and probably done so for a fraction of the cost. It's no wonder the show's order got cut due to budget issues, if that truly is the case. Not to mention how excessive the SSC set is itself, I hope much of the items there were free from whatever companies have their logos slapped on them..
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by epc1122 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:50 am

well to say that i was dissappointed would be an understatement, but after watching it again today, im making this into my own timeline. i'd like to think tos did exist with this new kr. in last nights episode they still say how karr was kitts original prototype, so im thinking maybe it was the original karr. they found his computer chip again and put him into the war machine. im also thinking that this kitt is the original kitt. in the backdoor pilot we see two trans ams, im thinking graiman wiped out the original kitt and tried to create a new version, thus giving us kitt three thousand. but for some reason, when he placed him into the mustang, he lost feelings and was just robotic. thats why he had to learn to be human again, so to speak. with the new karr, he was looking for michael knight becasue kitts cpu was placed inside of him. i thought he should be looking for michael traceur, but it makes sense since he had kitts cpu inside of him. when the government found karr in his original form, they may have erased his programming to fit into the war machine, so thats why karr still believes that michael traceur was his first driver. ugh, well to me this makes sense lol

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by kitt2k » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:56 am

im making this into my own timeline. i'd like to think tos did exist with this new kr. in last nights episode they still say how karr was kitts original prototype, so im thinking maybe it was the original karr. they found his computer chip again and put him into the war machine. im also thinking that this kitt is the original kitt. in the backdoor pilot we see two trans ams, im thinking graiman wiped out the original kitt and tried to create a new version, thus giving us kitt three thousand. but for some reason, when he placed him into the mustang, he lost feelings and was just robotic. thats why he had to learn to be human again, so to speak. with the new karr, he was looking for michael knight becasue kitts cpu was placed inside of him. i thought he should be looking for michael traceur, but it makes sense since he had kitts cpu inside of him. when the government found karr in his original form, they may have erased his programming to fit into the war machine, so thats why karr still believes that michael traceur was his first driver. ugh, well to me this makes sense lol


Sad thing is, if the show had been well done, you, or any viewer should not have to figure out how to make the pieces fit, it would have been spelled out in a clear way, ......but hey Hawaii was beautiful..... :D

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Shredder565 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:59 am

Anyone think a new Director, possibly someone who worked on the original show, might be needed for one final shot on a season 2? As folks stated, so many things where done wrong, and so many viewers lost, NBC would have nothing to loose if they tried someone new for a last ditch effort of Season 2.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by ronni3 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:16 pm

initial ratings give knight rider a 3.2/5...they may improve.....showing tht KR has a steady fanbase.....yes i agree the episode was not living up to the hype where the battle was concerned....but lived up as to how the story line progressed. i hope NBC realise that KR has a steady fanbase....and build on for a second season....albeit a try for 9 eps.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by ianruk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:27 pm

ok i am going to defend the writers of this show a bit here

first off the people to blame seem to be nbc for the fact that they keep changing epsiodes around,cutting things from epsiodes, not hyping the show enough and so on.

was this epsiode good? NO

why do i think it was no good because,, the biggest reason here is the fact that KARR in knight rider was never a freakin robot, but they decided they wanted to do something different, which you cant blame them in 1 way because of the fact its a remake and they wanted to do something new-ish and not just be copying everything from the orginal

however they dont seem to understand the original was a classic and should be the same knight rider in a way but different, they shouldnt have tried to make a classic villan into something different, keep the same stuff that made the show great but make it different BUT DONT CHANGE IT

i think if they kept KARR as a normal car and made it so it was the same AI and give a little story into how he was the same KARR as the orignal would have been good and made people happy.
they just tried to make people excited by using the name KARR when it isnt KARR

i think the ski mode coming back was fun and gave it a little more knight rider-ish feel
just like in the 2 hour movie there was no turbo boost so they put it in for the season, turbo boost is getting better so ,respect to the writers for that.

as said before by other people there was so much that could have been taken out to make a bit more time,like the stupid xbox thing, and showing mike and sarah in bed and so on,the music was also crap in the epsiode

i still dont like zoe as a character i think they should have killed her off and kept CG, but i will admit i really do like billy he is funny and nerdy just the kind of person u need

if the writers read these boards then dont take all this to heart what people are saying,just relise we are all knight rider fans from the orignal and we respect you for bringing knight rider back,,just remember its the fact we are knight rider fans which make us mad with small stupid things you do ,like making KARR a robot (not gonna make us happy at all) because he isnt a robot he is a car just like KITT

in closing nbc are the ones to really blame for the low ratings and messing up the order and making u guys cut stuff and having to reshoot stuff,,if they were smart they would not put the show on at a time and date where other shows are on, its a part of business serious they should go back to business school or something,,u put programs agaisnt weaker programs now put it on the same time and date of other long running popular programs, everyone knows u put it on agaisnt weaker programs till u gain a fanbase of your show,

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by kittxthexcat » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:28 pm

ronni3 wrote:initial ratings give knight rider a 3.2/5...they may improve.....showing tht KR has a steady fanbase.....yes i agree the episode was not living up to the hype where the battle was concerned....but lived up as to how the story line progressed. i hope NBC realise that KR has a steady fanbase....and build on for a second season....albeit a try for 9 eps.


I think they'd see a jump in ratings if they'd stop letting Leno and Conan bag on KR all the time. Seriously. One time Conan asked the audience if anybody actually liked the show, one person cheered and Conan said "Liar!" (it was funny, but disappointing none the less)
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by ronni3 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:34 pm

lol.....man knight rider got a bad name cse of the early eps ....which werent great...like i said ppl expected it to be great...legendary.....nothing less thn tht would suffice...now its getting better....so give it a chance.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by standgeo » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:40 pm

Guys your points are really good. IMO the whole thing about shuting down SSC, Kitt etc. was awesome. So was Graiman's way of giving last directions and restarting Kitt and hopefully FLAG. Great job.
But as far as Karr is concerned is the most awful thing ever showed in KR08. A transformer in KR. Is the only way to explain how a car with nanotech could be a robot of different size!!! Remember the pilot that explain nano. The fight was not even a fight. Kitt just jumped into Karr and that's all!!!!
I also feel tricked!!! They took a name that meant a lot to many people, KR fans, and just ruined it. Why? These people just don't know how to run the show, it's pretty obvious!!!
They would really do a much better job if they gave some attention to KRO. this could be a two part ep and the chance to make KR what should be, according not only to us but to their own pilot!!!
I'm a really big fun of KR, TOS of course but also KR08 but it's like these people do anything they can to let us down!
I will continue to watch just to see where it goes without really hoping of getting better just because they don't want to make it better!!!

Congratulations to all of you in KRO. You really care about KR and you are the BEST!!

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by K.A.C.I. » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:44 pm

The only hype I saw was from self-overhyping fans. NBC certainly didn't hype it, they barely even promoted it.
Bearing that in mind, maybe it was stupid of me to go into this episode expecting it to follow the series's long-since-established precedent of doing its own thing entirely separately from the original?
I mean, when, in 11 episodes, did the series EVER draw from the 1982 original in any meaningful way, beyond character names or minor easter eggs? The answer, of course, is never. So why should this episode have been any different?
Even the pilot never established a firm connection of any kind between Charles Graiman's K.I.3000 and Wilton Knight's K.I.2000, only giving us an off-the-cuff comparative question from someone not involved with the KI3000 project.

zero wrote:My HUGE complaint about this episode is the continuity makes NO sense. They act as if the original KITT didn't even exist. I don't get it.

Because the original Knight Industries Two Thousand is irrelevant as far as the Knight Industries Three Thousand is concerned. The only thing the '2000 and '3000 have in common is the "K.I.T.T." acronym. That's it, end of story.

kittxthexcat wrote:I don't know why, but he sounded like Peter Cullen and not Karr (yeah, that sounds weird, but that's the best I can explain it XD)

He sounded pretty much exactly the same as he did when he voiced the original KARR in 1982, so no offense, but I don't see what your complaint is. But yeah, ski mode was awesome.

Now as to the episode itself, let me start by stating for the record that I find Zoe to be waaay hotter than Sarah. Next, while I do think the battle was altogether too short, I still found it to be pretty well-executed, and I did like the return of Peter Cullen as KARR, the presence of the yellow scanner, and the resolution of Mike's memory problem. I also liked the lack of "Attack Mode" and old-fashioned use of simple systems like Ski Mode and Turbo-Boost.
All in all, not a perfect episode, but still a great one.

As to the "why", of using KITT's AI in KARR and why it failed, that's very simple:
As stated in the episode, KITT was developed from the failure of the KARR project as a more compliant/obedient AI to be eventually used in hopes of creating a KARR that could be controlled.
But remember, it's been stated that KARR was programmed for self-preservation and developed the ability to self-program. Therefore, I believe that during the process of reactivation, KARR overrode the KITT chip and reverted to his own uncontrollable previous programming.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Knight-Armen » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 pm

That's it? A five minute fight with KARR and that's all they are able to bring us?

How come Charles has a message for every single scenario, that's just silly! Regardless of where you're positioned when playing those messages he seems to have eye contact with the viewer.

Other than that the episode did fine except for all the advertisements on bringing KARR back of course and when I finally go to see it the fight it didn't last for more than five minutes!

Hey people, if someone missed the show last night just go to YouTube and watch the trailer, it's all there! :evil:
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by kittxthexcat » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:48 pm

K.A.C.I. wrote:
kittxthexcat wrote:I don't know why, but he sounded like Peter Cullen and not Karr (yeah, that sounds weird, but that's the best I can explain it XD)

He sounded pretty much exactly the same as he did when he voiced the original KARR in 1982, so no offense, but I don't see what your complaint is. But yeah, ski mode was awesome.


I wasn't really complaining...I guess I was expecting the voice to be a little more mechanical? Or maybe sound exactly the same as it did in Trust Doesn't Rust. (which is a stupid wish, but whatever :P) I think it would have been better if he had had the opportunity to actually SAY SOMETHING instead of just repeating himself O.o Don't worry, I'm still ridiculously excited that he got to do the voice again. He just should have gotten a bigger part with better lines.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by WIBoomer1 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:52 pm

knightendo77 wrote:.

GST said at ComicCon that KARR would "return". It's the same KARR.


Nope, GST said that KARR was not forgotten...he wasn't forgotten, he was just retconned into this new version of KARR...

But it's not the same KARR.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Mr.Marcus » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:04 pm

honnziva wrote:Ughhhhhhhh
you know what's lackluster.... many people's positivity. It sounds like you all have been reading too many comments on aintitcool.com. You all do realize that the original series did not win any emmy's for acting or story right

Gene


Exactly. And yet this series is vastly inferior to the original. So what does that say about the creative forces behind KR08? Either they don't get it at all or they don't give a crap. As a fan of Knight Rider, I don't want that kind of mentality behind anything to do with Knight Rider. If you can't at least match the original, which like you said never won any awards for acting or writing, then don't do it at all.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by ronni3 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:12 pm

Mr.Marcus wrote:
honnziva wrote:Ughhhhhhhh
you know what's lackluster.... many people's positivity. It sounds like you all have been reading too many comments on aintitcool.com. You all do realize that the original series did not win any emmy's for acting or story right

Gene


Exactly. And yet this series is vastly inferior to the original. So what does that say about the creative forces behind KR08? Either they don't get it at all or they don't give a crap. As a fan of Knight Rider, I don't want that kind of mentality behind anything to do with Knight Rider. If you can't at least match the original, which like you said never won any awards for acting or writing, then don't do it at all.


has smallville won an emmy? has one tree hill won an emmy? they are among the highest rated shows and they havent won emmys. knight rider didnt win an emmy and went on for 4 seasons....and if u ask why? then the answer is that it is a CULT following...not a generalised following such as desparate housewives, boston legal etc......cult followed shows have low ratings for a reason...they only appeal to the audience it is made for and KR if u see the ratings is steady and has a steady cult following
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by silverhandprint » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:15 pm

I noticed that Michael Knight types in BRUENING to activate Charles Graiman's hologram, while Sarah Graiman types in DEANNA to view the message.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Shredder565 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:16 pm

But Smallville, up until the last season or two, has REALLY stunk. They've basically dumbed down the character
of Superman to a 'Will he or won't he' angst ridden, hormone driven teenager.

Superman Returns didn't help in that matter either, with a depressed, stalkerish Superman....

Just because it's successful and wins an Emmy, doesn't make it good.

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by Knight2000 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:17 pm

No mega-quotes for this ep.

Like others, disappointed and thrilled at the same time.

I hated the intro with the bikini shots/T&A stuff going on. This is supposed to show a girl in mourning who deals with it through getting drunk. It shouldn't be boner time!

Mike finding out about K4RR and him? Was okay but could have been better executed with more background info. I agree with the comments about using MK to get some more info. I still think it's K4RR rather than KARR, given how little they've shown to try and link TOS to this one.

And Mike going after those baddies in the warehouse? Paint a skull on him and call him the Punisher! The scene would have worked had there not been that crazy-ass rock music. Ruined the scene IMO.

You all loved the ski mode to defeat missiles (it's been done in TOS, think it was Knight of the Drones?) but my fave scene was Mike and KI3T busted through the warehouse. Felt like a junkie who has just injected himself.

Q: If KITT's nanotech wasn't 100%, how did he bust through the warehouse without any damage, whilst still rebooting?

The K4RR moments, like everyone else has already mentioned, was far too short and I agree it should have been a two-parter to draw out the ep. Even if they somehow managed to damage K4RR so he then had to battle in vehicle mode, would have saved $$$ and still been as good. CGI, FWIW was very good.

Loved the ending bit still too little.

I rate this ep below the last two but all three are still miles above the rest of the series!

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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by ronni3 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:19 pm

xactly...emmies are no benchmark as the show is concerned....it complements individuals more than the show as a whole.
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Re: Live Discussion - Knight to King's Pawn

Post by scorbing » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:36 pm

Did you all see the Master Key KITT vs KARR pre-visualization video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxuk-GD18Rc

Shame on NBC for disrespecting us fans with such an edited version of the original cut. That is an insult. Master Key made a perfectly good fight scene with KITT and KARR and those bastards cut most of the good stuff out because of budget issues? Why the hell did they go shoot on location in Hawaii then? They could have used that money to give us the original Master Key fight scene as it was intended to be in the first place!!!!

Shame on you NBC. With editing like that it's no wonder why KR is going down the drain.

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