Molecular Bonded Shell

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Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Stealthwalker » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:08 pm

It has been stated in numerous episodes throughout TOS, that the key components to K.I.2T.'s molecular bonded shell were broken down into three parts and given to three people (Dr. Karl Elliot, Devon Miles & the third man, who was stated to be residing in Switzerland & the name was never mentioned). The question I would like to have answered is, could Dr. Graiman be the third man that knows how to make the formula for the molecular bonded shell? And why was it not applied to K.I.3.T's shell while he was creating him or was it?
The reason why I posted this topic is because of my intrigue with the character of Dr. Charles Graiman and how exactly is his link between KR'08 & TOS is really truly being established. And what was his real role at F.L.A.G. other than a scientist, who developed & created K.I.T.T. ?
If anyone has any theories or answers feel free to "post". :kitt: :kittside: :kittconv: :karr: :kitt2: :dash: :dash4:
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:59 pm

I am going to guess he was not #3.

In Juggernaut, they established who the 3 people were and Graiman wasn't one of them. We know that KITT had the MBS after Juggernaut, so one of two things happened. I think #2 is most likely:

1) The formula died with the 2 people killed in Juggernaut, so the Foundation could no longer create any NEW bottles of MBS coatings but they already had enough manufactured in stock to apply to KITT afterwards.

2) There was a mechanism in place to pass along the pieces of the formula to new people. Perhaps when one of them dies, a key to a safe deposit box is passed along to someone else, who then inherits 1/3 of the formula.

In theory, Charles could have been one of the people who inherited the formula, but I doubt it.

I would say that the MBS would interfere with the nanotechnology. If you can't dent the metal, you can't bend/morph it. So I don't think the Knight 3000 has MBS. But nanotechnology is serving the same function today as the MBS did in the 80s. We do know the nano-skin is VERY strong; it survived a rocket blast in the Surfer episode. It may or may not be stronger than the MBS, but it gives the Knight 3000 some abilities that the K2000 didn't have. So it would be a trade-off.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Knight Racer » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:18 pm

I think that the stuff must have been bottled and re applied to kitt after juggernaught.The MBS system wasn't mentioned in TKR,KR2000, or this series.There must have been a reason why Graiman went with the nanoskin instead of MBS.We all know how much damage the car took in 80's so maybe the formula did get lost.

In the backdoor pilot we see kitt being shot towards the end when the computer is turned off in the chase scene.Sarah explains that the nanoskin can't repair itself with the computer offline.It would have been great if the mbs coating was a backup idea for when the computer is off.We also see what sort of deamage was repaired right after kitt stops the suv at the end of the show then the nanoskin repaired everything.

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Stealthwalker » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:24 pm

Thank you all for your insightful information & input.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Vegasmike » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:02 pm

Woulden't you think KI2T would know the formula by now? Perhaps stored some how he didn't know how to access it. :?:

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by knightdogg » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:39 pm

KI2T knows what the formula is. KI2T almost revealed the formula to Sherry in Good Day at Bad Rock.

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Knight2000 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm surprised KITT would know the formula. Of course he could analyse himself and find out even if he didn't know but with all the info KITT had, it would have been a bad thing to keep things like that in a computer that could be hacked. I'd rather KITT be unable to identify the compound because of some programming, similar to his primary function, which would render him unable to analyse it.

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by jup » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:32 am

Knight2000 wrote:I'd rather KITT be unable to identify the compound because of some programming, similar to his primary function, which would render him unable to analyse it.


That's what I have always presumed. With all the complicated sensors that could analyze chemicals present on the ground, in the air and inside the cabin, then how easy would it be for this network to break down what the MBS consisted of? Whatever the reasons, it is certainly known that the sensors could identify when the complete MBS compound had been destabilized and rendered inept.

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by knightfever » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:14 pm

Knight Racer wrote:The MBS system wasn't mentioned in TKR,KR2000, or this series.


In fact, I remember that in the final episode of TKR, Kyle's vehicle, Dante, was almost completely destroyed.

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by knight ryde 07 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:15 pm

i think dr graiman was more involved in the ai component of ki2t and ki3t. this would explain why he wasnt part of the original series when they mentioned the three people who had the pieces of the MBS. :kitt:

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by sebhaque » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:55 pm

I just noticed, in TOS "Knight Flight to Freedom" that KITT drives through some lava saying his MBS can't handle the heat.

However, in the first epi of KR2008 KITT is hit with an organic missile-type thing that basically sets him alight - maybe this is proof that KI3T doesn't have an MBS?

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Stealthwalker » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:03 pm

[quote="sebhaque"]I just noticed, in TOS "Knight Flight to Freedom" that KITT drives through some lava saying his MBS can't handle the heat.



I gusess that's the reason why the pyroclastic lamenation was added to K.I.2.T. in the episode "Ring Of Fire" from Season 2. Which would give a theory that the MBS can only withstand but so much.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by cloudkitt » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:38 am

KI3T definitely doesn't have it as the vulnerability with the computer off proves. In practicality, I guess they just imagined people would have a harder time believing in the MBS today, although Michael's explanation actually makes perfect sense. A molecular bonded shell would probably completely prevent nanomachines from altering the structure.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by necrophilissimo » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:22 am

Even as fan of TOS, I actually like the Nano-consept better. In real world cars are designed so that in a crash the car body intentionally crushes, taking most of the impact energy, thus saving the people inside.

KI2T's body, however, was indestructible. In practice this means that all the energy of the collision would've been transferred into the driver. In layman's terms; With real physics, the first crash in KR would've turned Michael Knight into mangled, bloody mess.

In this light, KI3T makes a little more sense; It does crush and buckle, but it repairs instantly. The car body does take the impact energy, but recovers from it.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Knight007 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:36 am

necrophilissimo wrote:Even as fan of TOS, I actually like the Nano-consept better. In real world cars are designed so that in a crash the car body intentionally crushes, taking most of the impact energy, thus saving the people inside.

KI2T's body, however, was indestructible. In practice this means that all the energy of the collision would've been transferred into the driver. In layman's terms; With real physics, the first crash in KR would've turned Michael Knight into mangled, bloody mess.

In this light, KI3T makes a little more sense; It does crush and buckle, but it repairs instantly. The car body does take the impact energy, but recovers from it.

very well said. Image :kitt:

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by vampire knight » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:59 am

necrophilissimo wrote:Even as fan of TOS, I actually like the Nano-consept better. In real world cars are designed so that in a crash the car body intentionally crushes, taking most of the impact energy, thus saving the people inside.

KI2T's body, however, was indestructible. In practice this means that all the energy of the collision would've been transferred into the driver. In layman's terms; With real physics, the first crash in KR would've turned Michael Knight into mangled, bloody mess.

In this light, KI3T makes a little more sense; It does crush and buckle, but it repairs instantly. The car body does take the impact energy, but recovers from it.


I would say yes and no. It depends on what he was going through. Often times tanks and other armoured vehicles ram through walls and such without hurting the occupants inside. I don't recall KITT going through anything that was too solid that it was either impenetrable or too big for KITT to push out of the way. Your physics is right, but you'd have to consider the situation. Not to mention KITT knew his limitations and had passive laser restraing =). I believe his indestructibility was well played for the most part, he simply crashed through gates and doors and such, nothing that was too unbelievable. I don't recall any crash on the show that would have left Michael a mangled bloody mess. Other than say Goliath, where obviously both KITT and Michael got hurt which was realisticcally portrayed. I never thought KITT's MBS was completely indestructible it obviously had it's limits. KITT was more defensive and evasive than offensive and remember his main programing? I think if he knew the force of an impact was going to be too strong for Michael to survive he wouldn't go through with it, I'm sure he's able to computate the physics involved.

Also the impact of bullets and slightly larger firearms aren't strong enough to knock KITT away and therefore the MBS is more than sufficient and effective in protecting both KITT and Michael.

If anything the new nano tech defies the laws of physics since matter cannot be created out of thin air, yet we see all these panels and body parts appearing and disappearing out of thin are. It just doesn't seem like all that stuff would fit inside KI3T. I kind of like how it was portrayed in the pilot where it was a bit more organic, not these panels shifting and turning and transforming, that doesn't seem very "nanotech" to me. To me t was a bit more "believable" to have the body panels sort of grow out of KITT. You can picture the nanotech skin being able to form those structures and still physically fit inside the confines of the Mustang body.

Best would be to have both...nanotech skin outside to transform (within reason none of this turning into an F-15) and MBS protected body panels to withstand larger "trauma." The nanotech could help in creating special aerodynamic spoilers or other appendages, or perhaps special shields or other apparatuses given the moment and need, but not a full on transformation. In my mind I would envision the nanotech to sort of work like the transformation the spaceship in the movie Flight of the Navigator would go through.

As for Charles Graiman's role well, I guess it didn't matter enough for the writers since he was killed off. They failed initially to really develop his role. It was wide open, they could have explained what he did and what he was involved with with whatever they decided to come up with and tie it to the old series, but for whatever reason they were just kind of vague. All we got was he designed KITT, they should have been more creative.

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by Sue » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:20 pm

This article is off topic just a tad, but it was so interesting I thought I'd share.
About the only bullet dodging we know of is the kind some people engage in to get out of sticky office situations. Now, thanks to a computer company, it's gone and filed a patent (US 7484451) for a bionic body armor that can dodge the real stuff. And it does all this in a most interesting manner--by delivering a shock to the wearer's appropriate muscles to cause a superfast reflexive move away from the bullet's trajectory. Can technology ever calculate faster than a speeding bullet? Who cares? Imagine mere mortals like us able to do a Neo a la Matrix, with the bionic body armor dictating our moves. Just in case, we'd recommend slapping on the new Knight Rider's special bullet-resistant coating as backup. Even better if this can dodge paintballs. Though there'll be no dodging the expected sticker shock if this bionic armor ever rolls off the assembly line.

http://asia.cnet.com/crave/2009/02/17/ibm-s-bullet-dodging-bionic-armor-patent-wow/
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by weeezl » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:30 pm

Sue wrote:This article is off topic just a tad, but it was so interesting I thought I'd share.
About the only bullet dodging we know of is the kind some people engage in to get out of sticky office situations. Now, thanks to a computer company, it's gone and filed a patent (US 7484451) for a bionic body armor that can dodge the real stuff. And it does all this in a most interesting manner--by delivering a shock to the wearer's appropriate muscles to cause a superfast reflexive move away from the bullet's trajectory. Can technology ever calculate faster than a speeding bullet? Who cares? Imagine mere mortals like us able to do a Neo a la Matrix, with the bionic body armor dictating our moves. Just in case, we'd recommend slapping on the new Knight Rider's special bullet-resistant coating as backup. Even better if this can dodge paintballs. Though there'll be no dodging the expected sticker shock if this bionic armor ever rolls off the assembly line.

http://asia.cnet.com/crave/2009/02/17/ibm-s-bullet-dodging-bionic-armor-patent-wow/


Damn, I need to get me some of that!, do they make a similar product that stops you getting face palmed or your butt chewed off from disagreeing with your partners way of doing things? hhmmmmmm

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by cloudkitt » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:24 pm

necrophilissimo wrote:Even as fan of TOS, I actually like the Nano-consept better. In real world cars are designed so that in a crash the car body intentionally crushes, taking most of the impact energy, thus saving the people inside.

KI2T's body, however, was indestructible. In practice this means that all the energy of the collision would've been transferred into the driver. In layman's terms; With real physics, the first crash in KR would've turned Michael Knight into mangled, bloody mess.

In this light, KI3T makes a little more sense; It does crush and buckle, but it repairs instantly. The car body does take the impact energy, but recovers from it.


That's all true, but the original show never really broke physics in that regard. It would only kill Michael if they hit something that KITT couldn't penetrate, stopping him dead. AS long as went through whatever they were hitting Michael would be fine. In 'A Plush Ride', when they're rolling to a cliff, KITT even says "I will survive the fall, you will not."

Besides, it's not like the new KITT rams anything anyway.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by My_Friend_KITT » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:39 pm

Sue,

How cool is that!
I just hope that I would never have to be in a senerio where I would be required to need that brand of muscular help...
But it is a cool idea for soldiers and police...

Thank you for sharing.
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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by jup » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:48 am

cloudkitt wrote:KI3T definitely doesn't have it as the vulnerability with the computer off proves. In practicality, I guess they just imagined people would have a harder time believing in the MBS today, although Michael's explanation actually makes perfect sense. A molecular bonded shell would probably completely prevent nanomachines from altering the structure.


Most definitely.

The MBS formula improves the structure that is already there.

Let's say, for example, you hold an empty soda can in your hand. Give it slight squeeze and it dents. Harder squeezes crush it. If the can was full and unopened, you might still be able to squeeze it. But, it would be very hard to crush and far less likely to dent.

Imagine that same can with the MBS on it. Your hand would not be able to dent it, as the formula is tightening up the density of the aluminum. Even a bullet would make the can fly into the air...keeping the soda inside from escaping.

That formula makes the can dent resistant by making the molecules dense. It doesn't do much against high heat, though. Throw that can into a volcano and it's going to dissolve in the heat. Hince, why a different kind of substance was needed that would counteract extreme temperatures.

It's a kind of science class explanation that would work best, here.

As for the nanobots...I think the MBS could improve to KEEP THEM more secure. But, each bot joins with others to weave a tight net-type grip. The MBS wouldn't do so much for that.

I think there is a vital trade off in effect. The MBS protected a solid body from attack. Kitt could go off line and the shell would still be a battle tank. Where as, those nanobots are tech, in and of themselves. What happens to the body if they go completely off line?

I don't know.

Is the Knight Three Thousand's shell a kind of hybrid? Part physical and part bot? Could the car just "melt" if the right virus got into the works? Is it like a crazy form of Erector Set, where the nanobots are moving around large chunks of body to form all the different looking body styles? I mean, how did KITT stay in one piece when the electromagnetic pulse device nearly put him into a comatose condition, anyhow?

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Re: Molecular Bonded Shell

Post by CJaguar442 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:13 am

Molecular Bonded Shell does exist

here is proof
they use it on humvees in Iraq they say it is better than typical meatal armor


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhuDXpQEgKA
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