The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by knightny » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:34 pm

Where do I begin?...........

I remember a fan fiction series online almost 10 years ago. It was called "Knight Rider Legends". The basic story was that FLAG was reopened. But this time they wanted two vehicles instead of one. So FLAG rebuilt and reprogrammed KARR. Michael Knight returned temporarily, while a man named Jon Black was hired to drive KARR. During the series, people were out to get Black for reasons unknown. KARR was now good but found himself thinking negatively at times and had no explanations as to why. Finally at the end of "season 1", KITT, KARR, Michael and Jon were tricked into entering an abondoned warehouse where Garthe and Goliath were waiting. KITT was destroyed, Michael was shot and Garthe hacked into KARR and exposed him to his old memories. To prevent Garthe from killing Jon, KARR reluctantly agreed to leave with Garthe and Goliath hoping he could learn more about his deadly past. As Jon and Michael lay dying, another car enters the warehouse. Before Jon passes out he notices a blue light moving back and forth on the front of the car. And just like that, KRL was no more.

I found myself hooked on this story. Cant say the same for the new show.

Things that need to change:

Not much continuity- If you miss an episode, you dont miss much. One episode doesnt connect to the other so far. The current formula is "terrorist of the week". Smallville had it originally with the "meteor freak of the week" and it wasnt working. Then they changed and had the seasons have their own individual story. That's why it is currently in its 8th season. That's why shows like 24, Lost and Heroes are successful. You dont just get hooked on the characters, but the storylines as well. KARR was mentioned once, Mike has a past but barely anything more has been done about it, KITT scanned some files in the series premiere but nothing was said of it again. I just dont find myself thinking "I wonder whats going to happen next".

Sexual innuendo- We get it. Sex sells. But it's too much. Tired of Zoe always having to say something provocative. It seems at least one cast member has to have sex in every episode. TOS had it but it was done in a comedic way. For example, in "Trust doesnt Rust" while Michael and KITT are on their way to the old Knight Labratory they are talking about how they could have done it earlier as opposed to 2:30am......

KITT: And speaking of dates we could of performed this task earlier in the afternoon if you hadnt visited that Rosaline woman.
Michael: It's Rosalie KITT, Rosalie.....Rosaline is the other one, she lives down by the beach.


You can give a show sex appeal without showing girls in bikinis every 5 seconds or forcing Charles Graiman's sex life down our throats. When you pair KR with Life and Law & Order, and present it in this fashion, it wont work.

Where is KITT?- I thought this show was called Knight Rider, yet we see more T & A than we do the car. The pilot, while lacking in action, at least showed the car 99% of the time. KITT drove himself, had lots of interaction with the main characters. This new series doesnt show enough of it.

More copycat, less KR- This show has everything! A little bit of Transformers, mixed with Ocean's 11, Fast and the Furious and Torchwood. Everything except KNIGHT RIDER!!!!

I have much more to say but I need to get back to work for a bit..........

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Knight-Armen » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:59 pm

knightny,

All true! However as neps said, when we were watching the first episode they were already shooting the 9th so there was no way they could go back and change what they already did. Now that they have been informed about the flaws of their creation maybe just maybe they can alter those parts we didn't like and replace them with stuff that we've missed so far in the series. The fact that they're having a reboot puts pressure on everyone including the cast and the viewers of course who have very high expectations. If the reboot turns out bad the future of Knight Rider will not look very promising, i'm sure you already know. We've had eight episodes so far and the last one had the lowest viewers ever according to the chart, 5.1 million to be exact!
Michael: Kitt what matters to me is who you are not what you look like. Sure we don't have the car so we can't turbo boost so we can't go over 200 miles an hour but it was all icing on the cake anyway

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Shredder565 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:46 pm

What about this:

Could they have a 'fan input board?'

Even if Season 2 takes a bit longer....Why not use the online Knight Research website as a giant polling center?
A sort of, 'What would YOU like the show to be in Season 2?' They could also do a convention in CA and NYC to help gauge public opinion. Then NBC could promote the hell out of Season to as being 'for fans suggested by fans'....

BTW, Anyone know if KR will have a presence at the New York Comic Con?

Later
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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:15 pm

I do think they seriously lacked the human element behind episodes with the big brother involvement. Maybe they finally get that with the retooled episodes. You know, we don't really need any "Mary Beth, the hot MILF's farm from the evil developers who are poisoning her cattle and the police are the developer's dimwitted lackeys" and they could still easily enough do the save the world type episodes with very limited, as in we rarely if ever see, government involvement. Does the old "someone comes to FLAG for help" angle not work now? I'm sure it can and does and they could easy enough to stories influenced by real life.

*Cue pointless and vague story idea*

Such as an episode where Michael and KITT take on a large drug cartel, with the old set up of either a mother, brother sister, father, friend or whatever coming to FLAG for help against a powerful drug cartel that either their friend or relative was killed by or the person is a part of the gang or whatever.. Just was channel surfing and there was talk, that I've heard before, of the Mexican drug cartels in areas like Juarez and the corruption of the police force and local government, of course the issue is why wouldn't the Feds get involved if it were in the US and how the Mexican government realistically probably wouldn't allow FLAG to do anything in Mexico, but those issues could be worked out I'm sure with simply, if unrealistically, the person in charge of FLAG having connections in Mexico with those in power that could let Michael and KITT do what they need to. There are plenty of problems today that could be influenced from "real life", hell NBC already does that with Law & Order as do other crime shows, they could easily do something similar but with a KR twist.
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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Mike Knight » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:52 pm

Wow. Been a long, long time since I've logged in here. Been lurking, though.

I'm not a fan of the show. At all. I loved the February pilot. A lot. It's was completely in the vein of TOS, but updated and fresh. THAT was the direction I expected the series to take and I was vastly disappointed when it turned out to be a 180.

But I myself also believe in being constructive. So, here goes.

The show's too juvenile.

I mean, granted, the original series was far from Shakespere, but there's something to be said in the fact that the show wasn't deliberately cheesy. TOS's cheesiness stems from the era it was made it, much more than silly plots or goofy acting was (both of which the show had). GST seems to think (and I'm not trying to mock the man) that complete implausability works, and it doesn't. Even at it's worst, TOS was more believeable than KR08.

Making a key out of nothing? Growing mass from out of nowhere to transform into things that make no scientific sense? Submarine mode? Truly, the difference between TOS's level of silliness and KR08's is a wide margin. I suppose it's because of the times being different. There was no CG back in the days of TOS. They had to make the effects work in reality, so they didn't do what wouldn't be physically possible in some form (even if it means having a model do it). CG allows you to go far beyond what's believeable, there's no limits, and I think it hurts things in the long run when GST lets his nerdy teenage sensibilities (again, not meant as a true insult) run wild. A car transforming with mass from nowhere or creating objects out of thin air isn't cool. It's cheesy and cringe-worthy.

Bring the show closer into reality. I'm willing to settle for what can be done in real life. Now, due to the cost of the cars, some CG car stunts would be okay by me, assuming they were stunts that a car could actually do. Granted, there's no talking, intelligent cars like KITT, so some suspension of disbelief is welcome. But too often, the show has me rolling my eyes in disgust. Some of the things on the show would only entertain small children, I think. And if that's the intended audience, then that's cool, I guess. But the T&A sends a different message.

That'd be my biggest gripe. Second biggest is the jokes.

They have to stop.

If you're going to have humor, it needs to be dry. This isn't the 1980s anymore. Borderline slapstick or childish behavior isn't clever anymore, or even cute. TOS took itself far more seriously than the new show does. If you're putting the show up with Law and Order, KR had better become comparably serious, and fast. It needs to be much more of a serious crime-drama, with action/adventure on the side. It doesn't have to be dead serious, but I find it hard to care for characters like Billy or Zoe when they're nothing but complete goofballs. These people are trying to save the free world. Would it be too much to expect them to act like professionals? Mike and Billy playing with squirt guns? C'mon, guys. That's just rediculous. The show needs a great, big slice of verisamilitude. I loved Knight Rider 2000 because it dared to be different, but was still grounded in the lore of TOS, and was very believeable/serious. I think the new show needs to go this route.

Third biggest gripe: KARR. I got very excited when it looked like KARR was returning. Only, this isn't KARR. The name was used apparently only as a trick to get people interested. Unless it's the original KARR's CPU in that monstrosity, I call it a complete wash. I wanted to think of this show as Season 5 of TOS, in a way. Only 20 years later. If I see KARR, I expect it to be KARR, not Megatron. It was almost bait-and-switch. I don't even mind if he was put in a new model car (although being put back into an '82 TA would have been cool), but it needs to be a lot more comparable to TOS's KARR, if not the exact same villain.

I'm not one of those people that thinks it needs to copy TOS bit for bit. Far from it. But TOS looks more and more well written when compared to the new show. A more custom dash would be nice. The all-stock dash with KITT voice box just looks cheap. Attack Mode needs to go. I never liked Super Pursuit Mode (but it was still more realistic, effects-wise), and Attack Mode is unnecessary, and just looks like a bad Hot Wheel. It literally looks like what a 10 year old geek would call "kewl!"

Sorry, trying to remain constructive. The KITT Cave must go. Part of the appeal of TOS was it's theme, obviously. One Man can Make a Difference. There's too many people in the cast, even with the cast cuts. And Bruce Davidson NEEDED to stay. He lent the show an aire of legitimacy. Billy, Zoe and the FBI were the necessary cuts. There should be an HQ like the mansion from TOS, and Mike and KITT should be solo, out on the road at all times (for the msot part), waiting for their next mission. We need to get a loner quality back into the show. That was a big reason why TOS transcended it's cheesy trappings overall. It had a cool "black knight" thing going for it.

Really, I've said all I can. These are my biggest problems with the show. I think if it just drops the cheese and gets serious, ratings will pick up. It's probably too late now, but if word of mouth turns around, then the show may gain enough interest to warrent season 2.

The best way I can sum it up: I have friends who write KR08 off as "a stupid show" that's "lame." When shown TOS, they say "It's a little cheesy, but pretty cool." Knight Rider needs to get serious.
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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:15 pm

I think I can more or less agree with that, the transformations I could live with if it weren't just a method advertising more of Ford's product line. But KARR being a Trans-Am, specifically an '82 Trans-Am would make little to no sense given the events of KITT vs KARR, I could live with KARR being turned into a military robot if it were handled right with some good explanations behind it, but a new AI and a new KARR would possibly be the third strike for me. We'll just have to wait and see where they take the show with the changes.


To follow up on my last post...

[spoiler=]Haha, I forgot about Fly By Knight, they've done a drug lord episode.[/spoiler]
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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Mike Knight » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:53 pm

PHOENIXZERO wrote:But KARR being a Trans-Am, specifically an '82 Trans-Am would make little to no sense given the events of KITT vs KARR,


Obviously, it would have to be because someone put him back into one, which they probably wouldn't do, but I'd love that emphasis on KARR being out-of-date (even down to what make/model of car he is) compared to KI3T, and still being a measurable threat.

I could live with KARR being turned into a military robot if it were handled right with some good explanations behind it


I could probably, too. But it's just too over-the-top. And it just reeks of trying to tap into Transformers. But if it were the same KARR AI with the same memories, I could deal.

I just think a major opportunity is wasted with a greatly mythic legacy that KR has (surprisingly) through TOS. KARR returning (the Foundation's original mistake) and even Garth reappearing are all great ideas and could really tap into the fact that it's years later. Things like the mention of "25 years ago, there was a myth about a supercar that Charles Graiman built for Wilton Knight" in the pilot was a great start. TOS was about a "man who did not exist," and an amazing supercar that remained fairly out-of-the-spotlight. That's really mythic. They could really draw on the whole mysterious side of the KR image. The intro to TOS sets it up perfectly. The theme and the image of this car just driving out of nowhere, at sunset, by itself.

But the show obviously must stand on it's own, and that is fine. But for extended story material, they can draw greatly from TOS in inventive ways. Garth, the real KARR, KI2T, Michael, Devon's legacy, Wilton himself (Boy, what a missed opportunity that is) or even other old enemies we might not have seen on TOS, but you after-the-fact insert as enemies of KI2T and Michael. That, to me, is why I wanted and agreed with the "sequel series" direction in the first place. I love continuing continuity, as you can tap the older materials to see how the characters (etc...) have evolved. It's character development, pure and simple. The past reflects the present and future. A restarted continuity does nothing for me, and it's an easy way out.
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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:10 am

If KARR is the same KARR from the 80's, I'm done with this show. Period.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by ghidorah15 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:58 pm

KnightINSTINCT wrote:If KARR is the same KARR from the 80's, I'm done with this show. Period.


What do you mean by "the same KARR"? Do you just mean the same AI/CPU, or the same Trans-Am body as well? I'm pretty sure the latter's not going to happen, so that leaves the implication that you don't want this to be the KARR who did battle with the original KITT and Michael Knight. Why not?

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Vegasmike » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:52 pm

ghidorah15 wrote:
KnightINSTINCT wrote:If KARR is the same KARR from the 80's, I'm done with this show. Period.


What do you mean by "the same KARR"? Do you just mean the same AI/CPU, or the same Trans-Am body as well? I'm pretty sure the latter's not going to happen, so that leaves the implication that you don't want this to be the KARR who did battle with the original KITT and Michael Knight. Why not?


Good question!
Why not ,indeed :?:

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Knight4life » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:06 pm

Will agree with most of things being mentioned above.I also feel the need to bring that i pod screen back.I am not against the HUD,but they should have kept the HUD only for the attack mode.Instant chat windows popping up on the windshield is distracting and a bit unacceptable.Prefer Morphing (for stealth camouflaging) over transformations.Stories should be character driven and this includes the KI3T's character development (being concerned abt mike is not everytime is not the only character growth).Intense missions ( look out for Prison Break and 24's intense environments).NO CHEESY SEX MATERIAL neither immature attitude.Most of the things have been said above.Need some real butt-kicking action -Insane Car chases,explosions,fighting in tight corners (look out the fights in bourne movies).I am referring these names just as references and not to rip them off please.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Knight4life » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:16 pm

Also the need for Attack mode seems pointless when Ki3T can already attack in a normal mode.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by steventje » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:31 am

Knight4life wrote:Will agree with most of things being mentioned above.I also feel the need to bring that i pod screen back.I am not against the HUD,but they should have kept the HUD only for the attack mode.Instant chat windows popping up on the windshield is distracting and a bit unacceptable.Prefer Morphing (for stealth camouflaging) over transformations.Stories should be character driven and this includes the KI3T's character development (being concerned abt mike is not everytime is not the only character growth).Intense missions ( look out for Prison Break and 24's intense environments).NO CHEESY SEX MATERIAL neither immature attitude.Most of the things have been said above.Need some real butt-kicking action -Insane Car chases,explosions,fighting in tight corners (look out the fights in bourne movies).I am referring these names just as references and not to rip them off please.



I agree with you but I think the producers are budget driven and there is no money for the things you mentioned.
It is easier to hire some lousy actors and put them in a room acting like immature adults.
I hear the producers think: Let's use CGI for the driving, saves us money on fuel.
They can do wonderful stuff with KR, the filming technology that is available but I think money is the big problem.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:04 am

ghidorah15 wrote:
KnightINSTINCT wrote:If KARR is the same KARR from the 80's, I'm done with this show. Period.


What do you mean by "the same KARR"? Do you just mean the same AI/CPU, or the same Trans-Am body as well? I'm pretty sure the latter's not going to happen, so that leaves the implication that you don't want this to be the KARR who did battle with the original KITT and Michael Knight. Why not?




80's KARR returning for another bout against Mike and KITT? RUFKM???? That makes no sense that Knight Industries is going to settle on bringing back to life outdated technology for war combat. I honestly do not like the new story as how I interpreted it in Knight of the Living Dead that there is another KARR that Knight Industries had fumbled on with blotchy programming. No, this KARR has to have a program that was destined for war fare. If they go with a screw up (THE SAME SCREW UP) as that with 80's KARR, or using 80's KARR just because he was already a self-protecting sentient, then I'm done with the show. KITT is not KI3T, thank God. So why should 80's KARR be today's KARR?

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by KittKattBar » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:04 pm

My only suggestions are to reduce the number of people to maybe Grayman, Sarah, Michael and KITT and then focus almost exclusively on Michael and KITT's partnership. KITT's personality is a little bland, but I think he will grow and become more human as he interacts with Michael and Sarah.
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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Handzus' Stupid Fro » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:33 pm

My biggest gripe with KR08 was that it wasn't very believable. KITT transforming into an F150, or some other Ford is simply rediculous and totally unbelievable. Who was the target audience for these transformations? Who did the writers have in mind when they brainstormed this? Kids, teens or adults? As best as I can tell, a 10 year old would be enamored by it, but the redundant sex scenes and the like pretty much negate any chance a parent lets their kid sit through this show. And to most parents and adults, I would wager they'd think the transformations are retarded.

KITT actually had the acronym "KR" on him. Seriously. On the seats, on the underside of the car. Correct if I'm wrong here, because I could be - but I don't recall TOS, outside of the show intro, ever using the term "Knight Rider" in the show. I don't know, this just reeks of cheesiness to me.

What's with the crystal ball for a voicebox? And why Val Kilmer? The only voice more boring to hear than his is probably Ben Stein. Atleast his is funny.

Typing this just ticks me off so I think I'll stop here. I'm just really glad I have my four seasons of TOS to rely on.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by steventje » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:59 am

Handzus' Stupid Fro wrote:My biggest gripe with KR08 was that it wasn't very believable. KITT transforming into an F150, or some other Ford is simply rediculous and totally unbelievable. Who was the target audience for these transformations? Who did the writers have in mind when they brainstormed this? Kids, teens or adults? As best as I can tell, a 10 year old would be enamored by it, but the redundant sex scenes and the like pretty much negate any chance a parent lets their kid sit through this show. And to most parents and adults, I would wager they'd think the transformations are retarded.


I must agree with you.
This show can have so much potential but in one way or another they (producers, writers, NBC) must have screwed the show deliberately.
TOS was fun to watch for all categories, the youngsters liked KITT and the stunts, the adults liked the maturity and sincerity of the Michael and Devon
character. I remember my father at that time was a fan. No way he would like KR08 with all those adolescents ! Mike, an army boy is so immature.
He is a kid driving KITT.
It is a disgrace to call this show Knight Rider. They should call it Team KR or Young KR.
I have absolutely no idea why they gave us such a product. I can't believe people over 21 like this show. There are so many better shows these days, better storylines which appeal
to a wide public spectrum. For instance Smallville, running almost for 10 years and still successfull. Why? There is continuity in the show. Besides 1 storyline like the meteorfreak of the week, there is also the development of characters and how they interact with each other. Not every episode of Smallville is high quality but the weighted average is enviable.
As for KR08 with their terrorist of the week story, there is nothing much left to be honest. This doesn't work anymore in this era. The question is, do we need a KR show with less characters or do we need character development and multiple storylines? To be honest I don't know. If we want continuity through the season, we definitely need solid storylines apart from the main storyline each episode. Can this be acclompished for KR because we want to see a man and his car? KR82 was very easy, every week other actors popping up and basically 1 storyline. Forget character development here. We knew what the actors were standing for and what they were doing.
Personally I think we should only stick with a few characters, otherwise we lose the Mike-KITT relationship. So how do we compensate for the lack of multiple storylines and character development? The Mike-Sarah relationship can be developed, also Mike-KITT and even Mike-Graham-Sarah . But as it is an action series there should be a villain in every episode.
This can be achieved by sending Michael on a mission to save the innocent from that villain.
Apart from that there is also need for a darker sight in KR. A darker force which is present all over the season with a cliffhanger. Forget the KR82 happy endings, that doesn't work anymore. What the substance of this darker force must be, that's for the writers to find out. I could be in the shape of a person or artificial intelligence (KARR),...

To conclude, what we see now on KR08 is just lousy writing and producing. They are definitely writing for a young public. Let's throw in some sex scenes, that compensates for the inabilty to write good storylines. Well, I don't have to say how this show will end?

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:43 am

I want an intact storyline too. The last subtle hint of a storyline in the making was in I Wanna Rock and Roll All Knight, when the congress man's daughter asked Mike if he even knew who he was working for. My opinion with the independent foe of the week is all in all kind of weak. I liked 4 episodes (that stood alone) alot, appreciated the storyline embedding the history of Mike in the first two eps, but strongly dislike the evolution of Sarah's relation with Mike so far throughout the entire series. The way the writers stress the bond between Mike and Sarah bores the living hell out of me...Reminds me of Zach and Kelly from Saved By the Bell.

Continue a story line with more focus, just in case the foe of the week doesn't measure up. Because we all know TOS had some real bad eps here and there. I dig KITT, I like Mike and Sarah, but I don't like them constantly oogling each other. Give them a sex episode and then let it be it for awhile. Does everyone agree?

.........................and give KITT's voice some special voice effects again. Does anybody agree with me on this one!

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Kaine » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:18 am

Mike Knight wrote:Wow. Been a long, long time since I've logged in here. Been lurking, though.

I'm not a fan of the show. At all. I loved the February pilot. A lot. It's was completely in the vein of TOS, but updated and fresh. THAT was the direction I expected the series to take and I was vastly disappointed when it turned out to be a 180.

But I myself also believe in being constructive. So, here goes.

The show's too juvenile.

I mean, granted, the original series was far from Shakespere, but there's something to be said in the fact that the show wasn't deliberately cheesy. TOS's cheesiness stems from the era it was made it, much more than silly plots or goofy acting was (both of which the show had). GST seems to think (and I'm not trying to mock the man) that complete implausability works, and it doesn't. Even at it's worst, TOS was more believeable than KR08.

Making a key out of nothing? Growing mass from out of nowhere to transform into things that make no scientific sense? Submarine mode? Truly, the difference between TOS's level of silliness and KR08's is a wide margin. I suppose it's because of the times being different. There was no CG back in the days of TOS. They had to make the effects work in reality, so they didn't do what wouldn't be physically possible in some form (even if it means having a model do it). CG allows you to go far beyond what's believeable, there's no limits, and I think it hurts things in the long run when GST lets his nerdy teenage sensibilities (again, not meant as a true insult) run wild. A car transforming with mass from nowhere or creating objects out of thin air isn't cool. It's cheesy and cringe-worthy.

Bring the show closer into reality. I'm willing to settle for what can be done in real life. Now, due to the cost of the cars, some CG car stunts would be okay by me, assuming they were stunts that a car could actually do. Granted, there's no talking, intelligent cars like KITT, so some suspension of disbelief is welcome. But too often, the show has me rolling my eyes in disgust. Some of the things on the show would only entertain small children, I think. And if that's the intended audience, then that's cool, I guess. But the T&A sends a different message.

That'd be my biggest gripe. Second biggest is the jokes.

They have to stop.

If you're going to have humor, it needs to be dry. This isn't the 1980s anymore. Borderline slapstick or childish behavior isn't clever anymore, or even cute. TOS took itself far more seriously than the new show does. If you're putting the show up with Law and Order, KR had better become comparably serious, and fast. It needs to be much more of a serious crime-drama, with action/adventure on the side. It doesn't have to be dead serious, but I find it hard to care for characters like Billy or Zoe when they're nothing but complete goofballs. These people are trying to save the free world. Would it be too much to expect them to act like professionals? Mike and Billy playing with squirt guns? C'mon, guys. That's just rediculous. The show needs a great, big slice of verisamilitude. I loved Knight Rider 2000 because it dared to be different, but was still grounded in the lore of TOS, and was very believeable/serious. I think the new show needs to go this route.

Third biggest gripe: KARR. I got very excited when it looked like KARR was returning. Only, this isn't KARR. The name was used apparently only as a trick to get people interested. Unless it's the original KARR's CPU in that monstrosity, I call it a complete wash. I wanted to think of this show as Season 5 of TOS, in a way. Only 20 years later. If I see KARR, I expect it to be KARR, not Megatron. It was almost bait-and-switch. I don't even mind if he was put in a new model car (although being put back into an '82 TA would have been cool), but it needs to be a lot more comparable to TOS's KARR, if not the exact same villain.

I'm not one of those people that thinks it needs to copy TOS bit for bit. Far from it. But TOS looks more and more well written when compared to the new show. A more custom dash would be nice. The all-stock dash with KITT voice box just looks cheap. Attack Mode needs to go. I never liked Super Pursuit Mode (but it was still more realistic, effects-wise), and Attack Mode is unnecessary, and just looks like a bad Hot Wheel. It literally looks like what a 10 year old geek would call "kewl!"

Sorry, trying to remain constructive. The KITT Cave must go. Part of the appeal of TOS was it's theme, obviously. One Man can Make a Difference. There's too many people in the cast, even with the cast cuts. And Bruce Davidson NEEDED to stay. He lent the show an aire of legitimacy. Billy, Zoe and the FBI were the necessary cuts. There should be an HQ like the mansion from TOS, and Mike and KITT should be solo, out on the road at all times (for the msot part), waiting for their next mission. We need to get a loner quality back into the show. That was a big reason why TOS transcended it's cheesy trappings overall. It had a cool "black knight" thing going for it.

Really, I've said all I can. These are my biggest problems with the show. I think if it just drops the cheese and gets serious, ratings will pick up. It's probably too late now, but if word of mouth turns around, then the show may gain enough interest to warrent season 2.

The best way I can sum it up: I have friends who write KR08 off as "a stupid show" that's "lame." When shown TOS, they say "It's a little cheesy, but pretty cool." Knight Rider needs to get serious.


that pretty much sums up my opinion, what i think of the show and what i would like to see changed!

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Kram061-1 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:20 pm

Also, need to have a KNIGHT License plate on KITT, no doubt. And KEEP it that way. Have more references to TOS, MK KI2T, but not in every episode.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by coach41 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:02 pm

Contrasting some things in the original KR that KR08 doesn't have:

KI2T vs KI3T

In terms of looks, each car is distinct and in black looks great. So no qualms there. But why Ki2T wins out is that while it looked like a REGULAR car, it did some SUPER things that were believable: Turbo boost, ski mode, 200+ MPH speeds, etc, etc.

Ki3T in comparison should have more advanced functions. So far the only thing we've seen is the transformation of the car into different modes. It would be more believable if Ki3T went into a SPM but transforming into a truck is just plain impossible unless you're a cartoon. But KI3T hasn't shown a depth of functions that Ki2T had.

Bonnie vs the KITT Cave Team

Though some will disagree, I thought Bonnie was mature but attractive. She didn't have to wear bikinis or show cleavage to attract people. The KITT crew (especially Zoe) are young and immature sorts. Zoe is good looking but acts like a teenager. It's hard to believe young kids could maintain some a high tech machine such as Ki3T.

KARR-Goliath-Garth vs ???????

One thing so far in season 1 of KR08 is that there are a lack of memorable villains. I can remember the two Asian dudes (since I've watched their movies before) and the stupid Bonnie / Clyde episode. But beyond that, nothing has particularly captivated my attention. Compare to the old KR. In 4 seasons, you had a great choice of villains.

Action!

For an action show, there is a lot of talking and other activity going on. But the show is ultimately very boring.

That's all for now...let me see if I can think of anything else.

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by jeregano » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:33 pm

I keep reading a lot of criticism that boils down to, "Why aren't they just remaking the old show?". I am a big fan of the old show, and I am a fan of the new show. It has problems, that can be fixed, but it is a good MODERN show.

The old show had a girl every week Micheal was hitting on, sexiness in prime time was held to a different than it is now. I'm OK with where it stands. The current Mike seems to have LESS implied promiscuous behavior than the old Micheal it seems to me. He has a singular love interest. Remember, the tight jeans the girls in the original show wore were considered sexy in their day.

The show's nature seems very much in tune with a modern show. Characters are developing as the story progresses, as opposed to some old shows where every week there was little continuity with the previous week, just solving this weeks crime. Most episodes in some 80's series need not even be watched in order as the characters never learned anything new that they would EVER again have to use in any other episode. This serialization is more in line with modern television shows.

I think the show is very good for a family, 8pm show. It's not a hard drama, it can and should be fun family fare.


As constructive criticism I think that the transforming into other cars probably should go, but I also see how it is important for the evolution of the KARR story now. Learning/Self-programming allowing him to become a better war machine....i.e. robot. I'm cool with the way that is playing out, as I know a new KITT not only deserves but NEEDS a new KARR. I also like that as a war machine the programming that allows KARR to go rogue would make sense, and make it not "repeating the same mistake". So that I am ok with. But KITT constantly transforming into vehicles of VERY different size is a bit much. At least KARR will shift parts so the same size can be maintained it seems. I am not complaining about "ford using it as a platform to showcase their cars" because I remember that the year TOS came out was the introduction of the new style Trans Am and that nearly every episode in the first season made sure to mention that that is what he was. Only after they got tired of people asking for their TA to talk did pontiac ask them to quit mentioning it. Pontiac placed their car in the original series intentionally (also they made sure a smokey and the bandit 3 got made with the new body style). I just don't think the transformations add to the show.
THAT BEING SAID I DO THINK THE ATTACK MODE DOES. Even if unnecessary, the idea of the shifting nano bots changing the surface/ structure is important for KARR and gives a cool effect that is part of the awe of the show, especially as a family show.

Now the one thing that it seems to me should be brought back from the original series, and that seems from what I have seen might be brought back in this "reboot", is a certain part of the tone. Instead of a weekly terrorist plot I would like more of the feel of a "one man can make a difference" by simply having Mike and KITT help people against the types of criminals they can't help themselves against. Bully gangs. Big corporations. Crooked cops. You know the people who operate above (or below) the laws notice/grasp. This could be an on the road thing, even a world wide thing with the plane, but it would not necessarily require the loss of the cave. I don't think the cave would have to go. It's a fine plot point and a good "home" situation to give the show the ability to not feel like a 1 week, 1 story, 0 continuity kind of thing.

OK, there are my criticisms. I actually tried to be constructive. I don't feel they should bring back everything the old show was because it wouldn't fly now. It would have been cut before My Own Worst Enemy. (I actually think Viper did a better job of being more like TOS, and I think a life of near death in syndication is what it got...because it did that and that isn't what people want..me included). I think a modern show with some of the same components will work fine. You just got to pick the right components, and a talking car isn't the only one. But "The Hof", a Trans Am, The Semi, Goliath, KARR's CPU, Garth, and KITT breaking through walls wasn't the ORIGINAL reason we all liked the original show, that's what we remember about the original show that fuels our feelings of nostalgia. We liked the awe we felt as kids watching a car do things unbelievable to us at the time, the action of Micheal punching people out, the jokes that were funny then (and might be cheesy to us now), and characters we cared about...and maybe we liked those girls in every episode in tight jeans. LOL

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by My_Friend_KITT » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:59 pm

Hello, One thing I miss from TOS that I would like to see in this version is the episode title listed at the beginning.

I know that it doesn't seem to make a huge difference that the title is not shown. However, it makes an easier reference for those who do not know the episode's name. Also, wouldn't it make it easier to bond with your favorite episode if you knew it by name?

Other than this, I realllly enjoy the new KR and the new direction that it is taking with the retool.
That is a computer not a sofa.......Knight of the Drones

A firsthand viewer of Knight Rider '08!
And I LOVED it!

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by lunchmeat » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:35 am

Handzus' Stupid Fro wrote:KITT actually had the acronym "KR" on him. Seriously. On the seats, on the underside of the car. Correct if I'm wrong here, because I could be - but I don't recall TOS, outside of the show intro, ever using the term "Knight Rider" in the show. I don't know, this just reeks of cheesiness to me.


Doesn't stand for Knight Rider, dude, stands for Knight Research.

Now, to voice some thoughts I've been having lately...

People have complained about the HUD on the windshield...a lot of people don't like it and would like to see a return to the older dashboard style. Now, I understand this - I'd love to see KI3T have more of a "cockpit" than a simple driver's seat, similar to the original, but updated with LCD displays and touchscreens and stuff. (Think Star Trek: The Next Generation.) But think about this - the windshield HUD has to stay. It is one of the only things that really sets KI3T apart from the cars of today, and is somewhat believable. Back in the days of the original, a computer monitor in a car was unheard of, so the tech seemed really new and had the WOW factor....and it was believable because it was just on the verge of possible. But today...I mean, that's not gonna fly, y'know? People have TVs in their back seats. The windshield HUD really is the wow factor for KI3T's interior. We have similar tech today, and it's definitely possible. Taking it away will really just kill the coolness.

Now, I agree that instant chat things popping up all the time really sucks - KI3T should have control of this and alert Michael. However, that doesn't mean that video chat should be dropped - it's a great idea, it fits with the times, and it's just really cool.

Another thing....a lot of people state that they'd like to see a return to the original format, where Knight deals with small-town issues, criminals who are above the law, and whatnot. I like TOS, and I do support a format change for the new series emphasizing Mike and KI3T on the road. But really....when you think about it, KI3T is super-advanced with amazing tech abilities....he can hack into almost anything, he's got self-healing nanotechnology...I mean, he's a sentient supercomputer housed in the body of a bad-ass supercar. So, really, are we gonna be using said supercar to help Dorothy and her mother escape the clutches of an evil landlord who wants to take their property? It's almost not believable, and I think viewers will echo that.

I mean, I don't know. The terrorist-of-the-week format kind of sucked, but at least it fit the car's current abilities. KI3T's gotta take on bigger stuff, or else it's gonna seem kind of cheesy. I mean, I'm not averse to Michael helping people, or even getting himself into ridiculous situations (like an underground street race or something), but that can't be what the show is all about, for me. There's got to be more going on. I support larger, epic story arcs with the occasional diversion.

coach41 wrote:One thing so far in season 1 of KR08 is that there are a lack of memorable villains. I can remember the two Asian dudes (since I've watched their movies before) and the stupid Bonnie / Clyde episode. But beyond that, nothing has particularly captivated my attention. Compare to the old KR. In 4 seasons, you had a great choice of villains.


Remember that in the first season of TOS, the only really memorable character was KARR (and maybe the bikers). These things take time - you can't compare four seasons to one new season. If, by some slim chance, KR08 makes it to four seasons, then we can come back and compare. ;-)
If I am destroyed... ...so shall you be. -KARR

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Re: The Knight Rider 2008 Constructive Criticism Thread

Post by Starship » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:30 pm

Some people say that this show needs to stand on it's own; that you can't keep comparing it to the original series. But we must remember, the name of this show is "Knight Rider." It can't be a carbon copy of the original series, but there must be strong ties, otherwise, you might as well call it something else.

I'll add my voice to those who say that those ridiculous transformations have to GO! This is not 24th century Star Trek, where there is access to transporter and hologram technologies. While the advanced AI computing technologies that were in the original series did not exist at the time, they were not that far fetched. Computer technology was rapidly developing, so the idea of voice recognition and AI was not so far fetched. But, to the best of my knowledge, we are nowhere near having the ability to make complex car-sized objects turn into completely different objects -- especially in a matter of seconds. I'm sorry, but since this show is not supposed to be set 300 years in the future, it just totally turns me off. However, I have no problems with panels unfolding from the body or sliding around to give the car a different look or better aerodynamics under certain conditions.

Finally, a VERY big part of KITT in the original series was the dashboard. I tell you, that dash in that car probably changed my life! I didn't care too much about cars before seeing KITT's dash, but afterwards, I immediately came up with plans to change the look of my current car and add features to it, and that continues to this day -- 26 years later at the age of 45! And, it's probably at least partly responsible for one of my current part-time jobs, which is installing car stereos! Well, KI3T just doesn't do the same thing for me. Keep the HUD's -- I'm fine with that. But the main dash needs that WOW factor. It needs those LED graphic and digital displays. It needs those dozens of buttons. And the show needs to show those displays and focus on some special feature each week or so, like the original series did (remember, the show is called "Knight Rider").

Yes, people can go to the dealer and buy a car with touch-screen displays and rear seat TV's in them, but they are no match for the original KITT. Even 26 years later, the dash on the original KITT still looks more impressive and futuristic than anything you can buy at a dealership. The only cars that came remotely close, that I can currently remember, were the 1984-89 Corvette, the 1987 Firebird GTA, and maybe the 1984-89 300ZX and mid-1980's Subaru XT (with digital dash options on those cars). Yes, all of those cars were from two decades ago. Except for the addition of touch-screen NAV systems, production cars have gone backward in dashboard tech, not forward.
I try to put a little KITT in any car I own!

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