Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

[coach41]

HA - if KARR's transforming capabilities and personality (aka Peter Cullen) were integrated into a big rig, we'd get our wish.

You know....a thought crossed my mind that "Micheal Knight" might not make a re-appearance. However, a Garthe Knight appearance might work out. Gathe going after the son of Michael Knight and the Foundation would be a good story line.

Goliath with it's transforming capabilities would be the ideal weapon.

YUM.

[rucode4]

OK.. I am lost! Does this mean they are forgetting TOS? I could understand one prototype that went rogue (KARR) but now they have a second prototype named (KARR)? Didnt they learn the first time? And why would they need a prototype, because they perfected the micro processor in KITT (OG).

[Knight-Armen]

But why would KARR be in a Mustang?

In the original series Karr was Kitt's prototype. In the new series Karr turns out to be a cyborg with capabilities of transforming into different objects. IF this new Karr is the prototype of Ki3t, it would be even more than just logical for him to be a Mustang.

Still, why a cyborg? Did Graiman build a robot named Karr with a self preservation programming and then went on and said - hey, let's build a Mustang instead with the same computer systems but with a different programming!

The real concern would be why they made two prototypes with the same kind of programming in the first place. The first one was a mistake but what about the second - yet another mistake?

[NeoRanger]

Still, why a cyborg?

I was led to believe that KARR was made to be deployed in battle by the military. I *assume* that a Mustang would probably not be the best choice for a battlefield. He initiated the Knight Industries Three Thousand project afterwards, but for use in different kinds of operations; similar in nature to those of the original Two Thousand.

Of course, that's just speculation; it just how it strikes me,based on what the episode said.

[Slayer2004]

OK yet another rant from me,

People u need to stop going on and on about things when you do not know whats happening. You need to stop going mad about KARR as they have purposely not given you enough information as to what has happened. They have not forgotten the original series, no one has said this is a different KARR than the original, no one has said he wasnt a car to start with, they have said very little. Its becoming apparent from what I am seeing that a lot of people who are ranting over the KARR issue are not really up to date with TOS anyway as a lot do not even know that KARRs AI wasnt destroyed.

What I have deduced is that this is the same KARR we all know and love (lol)
His programming was self preservation
He will stop at nothing to defend himself

So with this in mind what is the best form to take, something humanoid in form to a degree with limbs will allow him to be more versatile. If he is abel to self program as they have said, as much as people dont like it the opposable thumb situation comes into play. He can do more with hands and arms etc, so its a logical phase for KARR to move more towards that concept.

And one final reminder, KITT and KARR are not the cars themselves but the brain inside it, so the car in the end is just a shell and nothing more, they can be moved to other objects etc (Remember KITT in TOS being put in a radio hehe).

Anyweay sorry for yet another rant but I cant help but feel a lot of the messages are getting lost as people are not paying enough attention and going off ranting over something they have assumed rather than being patient and waiting the outcome. It may be the best episode ever lol.

[KNIGHTCRUE]

KARR RETURNING AS A MILITARY OBJET AND TRANSFORMING INTO ANY VEHICLES OR DISSAPPEARING INTO THIN AIR WOULD BE A AWSOME OR SORTH OF MEAN GOLIATH THIS WOULD DO IT ,AND DAVID RETURNING AS GARTH MORE MEAN THEN EVER,AND DAVID RETURNS TO HELP HIS SON TO GET OUT OF HIS TROUBLES

[Lauzzy81]

And one final reminder, KITT and KARR are not the cars themselves but the brain inside it, so the car in the end is just a shell and nothing more, they can be moved to other objects etc (Remember KITT in TOS being put in a radio hehe).

You're right, I seem to remember that in TOS that the cars/the shell name was Knight 2000 and the brain as u said is KITT! So bottumline is that KARR likely can be the original KARR in someway they retrieved tha AI after the battle in KITT vs KARR! But only the future will tell and the episode was awsome, I thought it was the best yet!

[Knight Racer]

Anyone know what Zoe meant when she said,"Billy is telling us exactly how to stop her"? I was thinking hand jesture,him pointing to the ceiling grate with one hand.Maybe even somehow pointing to he by curious costume.Anyone have any idea how Billy was telling them to stop her from overhead?

[epc1122]

Anyone know what Zoe meant when she said,"Billy is telling us exactly how to stop her"? I was thinking hand jesture,him pointing to the ceiling grate with one hand.Maybe even somehow pointing to he by curious costume.Anyone have any idea how Billy was telling them to stop her from overhead?

from what i can tell, it was when billy says how "is this another halloween prank". zoe remembered from the beginning of the episode how mike played a trick and planted a device in the ceiling, thats where zoe should go to stop the fake zoe.

[Kram061-1]

Who says KARR is a transformer? Maybe those schematics were the different forms KARR has had since we last saw him. Maybe they tried him in different objects. We'll have to wait to find out.

[PVKR]

When are the writers going to notice they are missing the little things that made Knight Rider great? Specifically, KITT always found himself away from Michael at points during every episode, and KITT (without notifying Michael) helped Kids, Dogs, even horse betters! I'd love for the new series to bring back some of these non-critical yet nostagic moments.

Also, what ever happened to "One man can make a difference"? Seems to me they missed that entire point in this retread of the series. I'm hoping by seasons end they change the series. Possibly, Knight Research looses funding due to something that happens with KARR, and Charles uses KI3T with a relaunched FLAG. Turn the series back to more like the original. No army's of support characters, just Michael and KI3T, helping others who cannot resolve seemingly real life problems on their own...

[sandmanz613]

The most important thing to remember here is that according to TOS KITT and KARR are opposites in "brain only." Remembering that they were identical in car body. KITT was to preserve human life and KARR was to preserve KARR's "life". The entire purpose having KARR was to have an enemy for KITT that tested KITT physically and emotionally! KARR brought made us remember how human KITT had become. As we saw in KotLD episode KITT was showing almost humanitarian characteristics when talking about KITT-self. KARR reminds us of our "bad sides".

KotLD episode purposely, it seemed, kept things about KARR mysterious. Who really knows what happened to KARR from the time "we" left him in pieces at the bottom of the cliff at the end of KITT vs KARR. Remember all KARR needed was someone to find him with some advanced computer skills and put his CPU into something else...KARR would of course then take over and self program...or better yet if his CPU was still functioning at the bottom of the cliff maybe KARR was able to self program to use organic material to rebuild. OR maybe (because we didn't see this part) KARR's pieces were picked up by the Foundation or the Military and they recommissioned KARR for military duty by reprogramming him, only to find out that KARR protected his primary directive of self preservation and took control of his new "shell" and began to self program again...bringing us up to the new series and a new meaner, stronger KARR...

The beauty of this is that there are so many directions to take this story line. The one thing to keep in mind is to be positive about the writers choice of KR08 and don't go super negative about the return of KARR. Just revel in the fact that the stories for the show are intense and fun at the same time...just like TOS!

Drive On!

[cloudkitt]

The fact that this created such controversy and speculation about KARR is probably exactly what the writer's hoped to accomplish and speaks to their abilities at least in that regard.

[Sue]

And one final reminder, KITT and KARR are not the cars themselves but the brain inside it, so the car in the end is just a shell and nothing more, they can be moved to other objects etc (Remember KITT in TOS being put in a radio hehe).

You're right, I seem to remember that in TOS that the cars/the shell name was Knight 2000 and the brain as u said is KITT! So bottumline is that KARR likely can be the original KARR in someway they retrieved tha AI after the battle in KITT vs KARR! But only the future will tell and the episode was awsome, I thought it was the best yet!

Very true, it is interesting the difference between KI2T and KI3T it is apparently much harder to separate KI3T from his shell. I wonder what this neural net is exactly.
Here's an abstract thought I just had. I wonder why KITT can't morph into say a TV set sized object and separate himself from the rest of his shell, especially the part that was going to explode. Must be something in his programing keeping him from doing that. Oh wait.. I guess he can only morph into specific preprogramed shapes since when he first transformed into a truck Sarah said it was a new program she installed.

[KITTROCK]

Wow.. just watched the show! Great entertainment.. I was soo happy to hear of the return of KARR.. if you have a good look at the blueprints that KI3T shows, it actually shows a car, possibly the old trans-am that we all love, and it shows some mechanics inside of it, transforming into a robot like thing.

my guess is (and i'm hoping) that someone came along and found KARR's bits under that broken brigde after the hoff and KITT "destroyed" KARR.. and rebuilt him into the same old transam.. but this time added bits to him so he can transform into a cyborg/robot. And all these years KARR has been after revenge..

Now if I was the writer at this point I'd say.. KARR's back for revenge, but not with the new KITT. but with our old friend KITT, who was the only computer containing enough detail to detect KARR's weakness so he could be destroyed again..

cue.. the re-call of KITT, we know Graiman has his parts (from the pilot) and the producer says he want's to bring back the old KITT so it could work out nicely).. and of course if you've got old KITT.. you need the hoff back..

But for any producer or writer reading this.. if you bring back KITT.. then he needs to be in the body of the trans-am!.. it just won't do by putting him in another car.

Right I've said my bits!!..

[Kram061-1]

I saw on the news this morning, Val Kilmer is going to run for Governor, in New Mexico, or Arizona or something. I wonder who will voice KITT if this happens

[PHOENIXZERO]

No, the image of the wire framed side view of the car was a Mustang. However with over 20 years of time between KvK and now, there's plenty of space there to write something to bridge the gap. The silly thing is that before showing those blue prints or whatever, KITT stated that KARR was not a Mustang. He was an exoskeleton, which really doesn't make sense either but from the images, he was a glorified erector set. Maybe he was a suit or battle armor that had limited and less advanced "transforming" capabilities that were more of a mechanical reconfiguration of what was already there, from the images we see I could imagine this being the half way point between the original KITT's "transformation" to Super Pursuit Mode and the new KITT's transforming abilities.


Honestly though, if this "new" KARR has no relation or connection to the KARR we know it's only going to disappoint, well at least it will me anyway. It'd be a horrible bait and switch, not to mention rather cheap. KITT having a successor is one thing and using the K.I.T.T. Acronym again works perfectly, with KARR... Not so much.

And one final reminder, KITT and KARR are not the cars themselves but the brain inside it, so the car in the end is just a shell and nothing more, they can be moved to other objects etc (Remember KITT in TOS being put in a radio hehe).

You're right, I seem to remember that in TOS that the cars/the shell name was Knight 2000 and the brain as u said is KITT! So bottumline is that KARR likely can be the original KARR in someway they retrieved tha AI after the battle in KITT vs KARR! But only the future will tell and the episode was awsome, I thought it was the best yet!

Very true, it is interesting the difference between KI2T and KI3T it is apparently much harder to separate KI3T from his shell. I wonder what this neural net is exactly.
Here's an abstract thought I just had. I wonder why KITT can't morph into say a TV set sized object and separate himself from the rest of his shell, especially the part that was going to explode. Must be something in his programing keeping him from doing that. Oh wait.. I guess he can only morph into specific preprogramed shapes since when he first transformed into a truck Sarah said it was a new program she installed.

I think I mentioned it awhile ago that this KITT seems to be much more integrated into the car than the original KITT was, which would probably make sense. I was going to write something here about the whole neural net thing, but instead of rambling on some more and probably looking a bit dumb in the process, I'll let the almighty Wikipedia handle it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PHOENIXZERO]

I saw on the news this morning, Val Kilmer is going to run for Governor, in New Mexico, or Arizona or something. I wonder who will voice KITT if this happens

Hmm, found this:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/files/2 ... r-one.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT: Err, here's the source of the "story" than just a blog I linked to. Looks like it came from a gossip columnist. So that alone kind of limits the credibility of this..

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11072008/go ... htm?page=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At this point, it's not something that's going to potentially happen for many months, if it happens at all.

[KITTROCK]

Hi guys!

I've just had a look at the schematics for the "new" car and initially it's a car that transforms into a cyborg.. ok.. fine we can deal with that..just about.. but we really want this to be the old KARR

it doesn't make sense for Knight Industries to make another KARR with self preservation. why would they make the same mistake twice and call both KARR?

it's gotto be the old KARR, coming back in an updated car.

anyway.. the schematic shows a car, which matches a Mustang GT500KR, the same as KI3T. That is definately not the t-top. so i'm feeling kinda angry..

why on earth would someone go out of their way to rebuild KARR in the same body as the new KITT and further enhance him?.. doesn't make any sense.

so I bet you KARR will be back.. probably the old one, in an updated version. looks like KI3T and will be able to modify his body to become a cyborg.

With regards to Mike Traceur (Knight).. he's having deja-vu about KARR after seeing just the schematics, plus the knight industries are hiding something from him..
Could it be that knight industries rebuilt KARR using his CPU years ago and made him into a warrior-bot? Could it have been with Micheal Jnr in Afganistan and taken some sort of revenge.. causing him to loose his memory?? ooo.. I'd love to be a script writer!!

i'm sad to see the schematics don't show a t-top transam.. I was really hoping for it. and I damn well hope that if Kitt (KI2T) comes back then he returns in his old body!! otherwise I'm tuning off..

[Tony P Knight Driver]

I really feel the need to point out the obvious issues and question here.

KARR the Knight Automated Roving Robot was the prototype to Knight Industries Two Thousand . Programmed for self preservation, turned evil and had be deactivated and eventually destroyed.

If Charles Graimen built the two thousand series KITT and then he most likely would have built the original KARR.

Question being: Why on earth would he build another Knight Automated Roving Cybernetic Robot (KARCR) programmed for self preservation that obviously turned evil and had to be deactivated, as a prototype to the new Three Thousand series KITT?

It makes no sense that they need the new KITT’s files to reactivate the original KARR, and there is no evidence that Michael has a computer chip in his head from KARCR. More likely is the possibility he fought KARCR in the past or KARCR was part of that special operations file Agent Rivi gave him when she “killed Mike Tracuer”

Charles doesn’t seem to be the type to repeat a make mistakes and although there are a few references and teasers relating to Knight Rider TOS.

No my friends, I do not believe will we ever see the Knight Industries Two Thousand or its evil counterpart in this show. As for Goliath and Garth Knight I doubt it.

It is quite apparent to me they have resurrected KARR in name only and we can look forward to CGI special effects in some kind of six million dollar man meets robo tech and transformers. I am sure it will be entertaining and impressive but it wont be the KARR you think its going to be, it will be the KARCR.

The producers seem hell bent on teasing us with names and references, to keep us hooked but are steadfast in doing this their way with new characters. This in itself is not a bad thing it is merely a different thing.

The show is getting better in some areas and different in others, I agree KITT is evolving nicely, but like the ads said "this isn’t your fathers knight rider" it’s a whole new show, so I although I commend you for your well thought out concepts a unique ways to bring the old favorites back. I will be very surprised if we ever see the beloved black trans am again.

Now that being said, I would openly challenge the producers of Knight Rider 08 to prove me wrong.

[pheonix_knight]

we are going to see KARR as a mustang initially, according to the casting call for ep12 because Ki3t's cpu is removed in order for KARR to be reactivated Just a thought on the p/w discussion of 'LEARNS ALO.....' could that apply to KARR rather than Ki3t as KARR can self program, or LEARN ALONE

[sandmanz613]

So it seems true that the Knight Automated Roving Robot has been replaced with the Knight Automated-cybernetic Roving Robotic Exoskeleton...If you read into the KR08 KARR you see just based in his name alone that he was more than just a car...Roving Robot. It makes sense to see KARR evolve into some sort of military vehicle (battle bot) style vehicle. Maybe the 08KARR has evolved in such a way that he craves death and destruction and is attacked to war zones...maybe he was not commissioned by the government or the military but is self serving...

An interesting thought.

[cloudkitt]

I really feel the need to point out the obvious issues and question here.

KARR the Knight Automated Roving Robot was the prototype to Knight Industries Two Thousand . Programmed for self preservation, turned evil and had be deactivated and eventually destroyed.

If Charles Graimen built the two thousand series KITT and then he most likely would have built the original KARR.

Question being: Why on earth would he build another Knight Automated Roving Cybernetic Robot (KARCR) programmed for self preservation that obviously turned evil and had to be deactivated, as a prototype to the new Three Thousand series KITT?

First, it's Knight Autocybernetic Roving Robot, still KARR (even if you want to include exoskeleton it's KARRE).

As for the rest, that's exactly why I think it's the same KARR. If Graiman built the 2000, he built KARR. There is no way he would have even given the 3000 prototype the same name, much less the same flawed programming. It simply would not work.

He may not have the same voice, he may not call himself the "prototype of the car of the future," and he definitely won't be in a Trans Am, but it has to be the same artificial intelligence. How many times have the writers (and Justin) said that it's not a remake, not a restart, but a sequel? As for the Knight Industries Two Thousand, who knows. But remember that it was Gary Scott Thompson that said he didn't see why we couldn't see both KITTs side by side.

[original_cruz]

If KR08 "isn't your father's Knight Rider", then just by that token alone, I'm all for saying that this new KARR is not the old one. The fierce opposition around here to that idea is baffling. A new KARR for a new generation, just like a new vehicle sponsor (Ford), a new method of operation (the SSC instead of the mobile semi-truck command unit), and the next generation of Michael Knight.

Is it really so hard to think Dr. Graiman isn't above repeating the mistakes of the past? Bruce Davison is a great actor, and I think it does him more justice to play a character who is not just another stereotypical sci-fi supergenius, but a flawed supergenius who makes the mistake of thinking age and experience has made him better, when instead, in the midst of his obsession to make amends for his terrible mistake with the first KARR, that proves to be false.

Maybe new KARR is really the old one, but I think that's way too easy for the writers if they went with that. Also, it would show extremely poor judgment for Charles if he incorporated data from the old KARR's CPU into the new one. Unless he's a real gambling man, that would be foolishly daring the old persona to come about again. Nope, he likely started from scratch with new KARR using what he had of KI2T as reference to make the next generation. Of course, somewhere along the line he screwed up without noticing until it was too late (maybe with the development of the Data-the-Android-from-Star-Trek inspired "neural net").

Finally, KARR's new acronym using the word "exoskeleton" tells me that it is not referring to the shell for the KARR CPU, but rather as an armored suit for a pilot...say, perhaps, a certain Mike Traceur (Knight). I'll bet you he was the test pilot for KARR in Iraq, hence why he was so struck when he saw KARR's schematics. But, as usual, something went horribly wrong. Bad enough to make "them" wipe Mike's memories of the incident. Memories that could make Mike super pissed-off at Alex Torres if he were to remember.

[Army_F_Body]

Wow, just saw this and am really sorry I missed the episode on purpose. This has got me intrigued in the show yet again. Having worked for the Government in the intelligence capacity, let me tell you that you can be doing things for them without having the overall picture or scope of the project. It is very likely that Graiman unwillingly helped rebuild KARR as a military weapon. The CPU could have been recovered in 84 and the Government could have used Graiman to construct a new Hunter/Killer shell for it. Maybe that caused him to leave (maybe even shut down the Foundation to prevent such things happening again) and used what he learned to build KI3K in his garage (adding the back doors and self destruct options just in case it turns into another KARR).

Sorry, I haven't had the time to read all 9 pages, yet (sorry to be late to the party), so forgive me if someone else has covered this, but the cyborg part throws me. I know in the old days cyborg was pretty much interchange with robot or android, but we all know a cyborg is a machine that utilizes living tissue. Does this thing have a brain or being an exoskeleton do we have a Star Trek Borg like situation? I can kind of see a human strapped inside that thing and being linked to the main CPU. Maybe Tracuer was it's test pilot and KARR corrupted him (think of Jansen and KRO from TKR in reverse) causing him to go crazy in Iraq and cause massive damage. Maybe he suffered some brain damage from the link and can't remember everything or has blocked it out. It's obvious he did some things over there that he is not proud of. Plus since KI3K scanned his files in the first episode maybe he knows more than he is letting on (this makes since if Graiman was so afraid of what happened with KARR why would he leave documentation in KI3K's files that might give him some ideas, KITT had to glean this information from somewhere else.).