Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by WIBoomer1 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:58 pm

In the episode, KI3T specifically spells K A R R...no bloody E (or D, C, B, or A for that matter... just 1701! :lol: )

Here's the thing that strikes me sideways: I think it's safe to say that the majority of KR 82 fans really really really want to see the old actors and characters back in play in KR 08.

But it seems to me that the writers don't or can't do that. Either they can't get the actors to come back on their terms (Hoff came back for the pilot, but how much will it really cost to get him back for a episode? Ditto Mr. Daniels. I don't buy the "We can't locate Patricia McPherson" line. And I think I read somewhere that Peter Parros didn't care for what he saw in the Pilot Movie...and lastly, of course Edward Mulhare is no longer with us)...or to the contrary of GST's public line, they don't want them to come back.

I can understand them wanting to do their own new thing, but let's face it, without KR 82, there'd be no KR 08 (I could go into a Viper 09 tangent, but I'll let that one rest for the time being...).

I think this kind of treatment towards the old fans is kinda what did in last year's Bionic Woman redo...there was very little connectivity to the old show, and the show's focus never hit the same stride as the original. Most of the fan's of that show wanted more of the evil Bionic Woman prototype than the new Jamie Sommers...coincidence?

HOWEVER, having said that, there's obviously new people who have never seen the original show, and they can buy into the new premise, characters, and execution. We the old fans just wish that more care would have been exercised in doing the research and delving into the history to get the little details right. I'm OK with the new ideas, but the past is the past, and they can't change that. Maybe they needed to hire someone to be the continuation expert, what would work, what won't...i.e. KARR was KI2T's prototype, so we need another name for KI3T's prototype...?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by NeoRanger » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:01 am

Maybe new KARR is really the old one, but I think that's way too easy for the writers if they went with that.

Easier than pulling a conceptually (and, hell, namely) identical "evil prototype"? Either way, it's something that has been done. If it's the original KARR, it's at least connection to the mythology and it is by far more welcome.

No, really, if this isn't the same KARR, then Graiman is a hell of an idiot. He (probably) makes a KARR, then realizes what goes wrong with it, makes a KITT and some twenty years later, he makes another KARR, fails again and then makes another KITT? What kind of logic is that?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Ridero_2000 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:12 am

WIBoomer1 wrote:In the episode, KI3T specifically spells K A R R...no bloody E (or D, C, B, or A for that matter... just 1701! :lol: )

Here's the thing that strikes me sideways: I think it's safe to say that the majority of KR 82 fans really really really want to see the old actors and characters back in play in KR 08.

But it seems to me that the writers don't or can't do that. Either they can't get the actors to come back on their terms (Hoff came back for the pilot, but how much will it really cost to get him back for a episode? Ditto Mr. Daniels. I don't buy the "We can't locate Patricia McPherson" line. And I think I read somewhere that Peter Parros didn't care for what he saw in the Pilot Movie...and lastly, of course Edward Mulhare is no longer with us)...or to the contrary of GST's public line, they don't want them to come back.

I can understand them wanting to do their own new thing, but let's face it, without KR 82, there'd be no KR 08 (I could go into a Viper 09 tangent, but I'll let that one rest for the time being...).

I think this kind of treatment towards the old fans is kinda what did in last year's Bionic Woman redo...there was very little connectivity to the old show, and the show's focus never hit the same stride as the original. Most of the fan's of that show wanted more of the evil Bionic Woman prototype than the new Jamie Sommers...coincidence?

HOWEVER, having said that, there's obviously new people who have never seen the original show, and they can buy into the new premise, characters, and execution. We the old fans just wish that more care would have been exercised in doing the research and delving into the history to get the little details right. I'm OK with the new ideas, but the past is the past, and they can't change that. Maybe they needed to hire someone to be the continuation expert, what would work, what won't...i.e. KARR was KI2T's prototype, so we need another name for KI3T's prototype...?



Absolutely agree with you. They throwing us the old fans to the hole and buying new ones with this serie, wich is a goverment team could make a diference.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by knightprobe89 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:22 am

i also agree with you, they dont give a rats ass about the fans of the original series like us. what happened to the talks of nbc bringing hasselhoff and the knight 2000 back for an episode as a tribute to the original series fans. nbc universal and gary scott thompson just dont get it! and the writers of kr 08 have no clue either. :evil:
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by cloudkitt » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:35 am

original_cruz wrote:Is it really so hard to think Dr. Graiman isn't above repeating the mistakes of the past? Bruce Davison is a great actor, and I think it does him more justice to play a character who is not just another stereotypical sci-fi supergenius, but a flawed supergenius who makes the mistake of thinking age and experience has made him better


A)I'm pretty sure the "flawed" super-genious whose well-meaning robots end up killing people is far more stereotypical. B) Even so, there's being flawed, and there's being a freaking moron. Forget about programming, why would he have given another project the same moniker? That would be like naming a cruise ship Titanic, you just wouldn't do it.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by viper_defender » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:26 am

I think this is how it went down...

Back when they picked up what was left of KARR under the bridge someone must have taken that processor and rebuilt it... Something happened and Knight Research recovered it Maybe Mike Traceur was among that did recover it Thats why it looked familiar and according to the FBI Guy it killed 7 people, who where those 7 people... I dont rememer in The original Knight rider KARR killed anyone... I hesitate someone from the past... I hazard to think that person my be Garthe Knight, he must have rebuilt it into something else like that robot that could convert into a Mustang or something else... Remember Ki3t was a prototype of something... Chances are this Ki3t we know could be a 2nd version of the KARR frame but with Ki3t or Kitts processor inside...

Remember we have seen Ki3t turn into serveral things already like a Sub, a Crown Victoria, a Van and a Pickup... Why not a Robot?

All in all this episode was pretty good! Very Ceribral, detective like... Reminded me somewhat of CSI and 24... Much as anyone didnt like it I say it was the best because it moved the storyline bound after bounds... Opening up the door to the final conflict and we may see who's behind the terrorists of the week.

I hope its Garthe (DA HOFF!) We need him BAAAD!
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Re: Knight of the Living Dead NO ORIGINAL KARR

Post by Tony P Knight Driver » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:40 am

All I am saying is from what I have seen and read so far the fans of the original Knight Rider, myself included, have seemingly been mislead, misinformed or have mis understood certain things about the new show. They sold Knight Rider to us as a continuation of the original show, 25 years later.

If this is truly a continuation the original series, there are gaps they need to fill in, and when they bring back a well known character like KARR, because there are obvious inconsistencies that come into play. I think a lot of people were expecting some type of rebirth of the original KARR, and who knows that maybe just what this new thing is, but the fans want to see or at least hear the original KARR.

One thing I think everyone seems to hit on is the question of why would Dr. Graimen build KARR in 1982, program it for self preservation, have it go wrong and then build another one in 2008 program it the same way and add the ability to self program? It doesn’t make sense. We will have to wait and see how this plays out in the upcoming episodes; if they do it right I will be very impressed.

In my opinion what NBC and GST are doing is teasing the fans of the original series with hints and innuendoes, and references to the original show but with out actually directly connecting the two shows together. The only real tie in so far is we know that Mike is Michael Knight’s son, we don’t know why Micheal Knight Sr. would leave Mike and his mom. Was it to become an operative of FLAG? Does the story line now go our hero Michael Knights turns out is basically a loser who abandons the mother of his son and his child?

The fans past and present deserve to know what happened to the original KITT, FLAG and the Knight Foundation. Why and when did Michael Knight stop being an operative, or has he.

We want to understand why the FBI is now running the Knight Foundation and Is there still a board of director for the Knight Foundation that oversees the operations? Who fills the role of Devon Miles had when Wilton Knight past away?

If NBC had came out and said we are bringing back a reinvention of the 80's series Knight Rider, I think we could all live with that, and enjoy the new show for what it is. I mean it worked very, very, well for Battlestar Galactica, but that’s not how they sold the show, they sold it as a continuation.

An example of a continuation that worked would be: Charlie’s Angel’s, both movies, were a continuation of the original story, they reintroduced the Townsend agency with the same Charlie. They paid respect to the original series by not only having a past angel do a cameo, but inside the Townsend agency, hung on the walls are picture of all the past angels.

This accomplished two things. It honored the original shows in a way past fans could relate to, and it introduces the new angels to a whole new audience.

That is the type of "continuation", if you will, we are seeking. I really think that is why alot of people expect a return of the original KITT, the original KARR and Michael Knight Sr. I also think alot of people are going o relay be disapointed.

What most everyone seems to be looking for or perhaps is in need of is a transition show.

All the questions and speculation could be explained in a 2 part episode or a 2 hour movie event where the past and the present come together (as for the story line who knows, maybe Mike and Mike get trapped trying to stop some mad man from destroying everything, and they need both KITTs to save them, while the are trapped they share a father son moment) but as I stated before I do not believe NBC or GST have any intention of bringing back the original KITT or Michel Knight Sr.

Therefore once again I openly challenge the producers of Knight Rider to prove me wrong
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by J.A.L » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:11 am

goldbug wrote:
J.A.L wrote:It just came to me that this new Knight Rider has nothing to do with the original series. Now I know that they show a Trans-Am in the backdoor pilot but on the new series they not once talk about the knight 2000 and now KARR is a cyborg . So folks this is a remake of Knight Rider so don’t expect to see anything about the original like the bionic woman that NBC had earlier in the year :dash:

List of references to the original series so far in KR08 and its pilot:

1. Appearance of several KI2T parts in Charles Graiman's garage (Pilot movie).

2. References to "Knight Industries" (Pilot movie).

3. Direct reference to Wilton Knight and an "urban legend" about the most advanced AI ever created (Pilot movie).

4. KI3T is the "Knight Industries Three Thousand", meaning he is the next in line after the original KITT who was the "Knight Industries Two Thousand" (Pilot movie).

5. Mike's mother refers to the original "Trans Am" and asks if Charles has built "another" indicating there was one before. (Pilot movie).

6. Several of the robots in Charles Graiman's house had the red "scanner" most often identified with KI2T.

7. Appearance of Michael Knight Sr. and his quote of Wilton Knight's words to him. (Pilot movie).

8. Charles mentions "The Foundation". (Pilot movie).

9. Mike Traceur is revealed to be the son of Michael Knight Sr. who is said to have driven the original KI2T by Jennifer. (Pilot movie).

10. Mike mentions his father's "real name" was Michael Long ("A Knight in Shining Armor").

11. KI3T's scanner uses the original scanner sound effect fro the television series ("A Knight in Shining Armor).

12. KI3T turbo boosts. ("A Knight in Shining Armor", "Journey to the End of Knight").

13. "Devon" and "Bonnie" are used as cover aliases for Mike and Zoe. ("Knight of the Iguana").

14. Though not direct continuity ties, there are some sly visual references to TOS including KI3T having a "ski mode", the tri-bar voice modulator appearing in the orb and the still undecided "nu-KARR or not nu-KARR" issue.

Given all this, how can you even think this is not tied to the original?

Hey most of the thing that you say that they was from the backdoor pilot and I know that they did mention some names and they do have turbo boost but it is still an remake and they are just throwing the fans of Knight Rider a BONE

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Knight Rider 1990 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:04 am

i don`t know if someone has drop this picture but this is the moment when you see the original KARR
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:06 am

That car is the Mustang, not a Trans-Am, despite the fact that KITT told Mike that KARR wasn't a Mustang. Welcome to the forums though.

Watching Trust Doesn't Rust again I think I know where GST got the "cybernetic" thing from. KARR mentions his need for a "cybernetic technician" which in this case was Bonnie. Still would like to know the reasoning as to why that was added to the name...

Also, after KvK where KARR did almost kill Eddie, I don't think it'd be too far off base to say he'd go on a killing spree after another couple decades of basically being a prisoner. KARR's personality would probably continue to go down a more and more sinister path.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by JJSoCrazy » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:06 pm

PHOENIXZERO wrote:That car is the Mustang, not a Trans-Am, despite the fact that KITT told Mike that KARR wasn't a Mustang. Welcome to the forums though.

Watching Trust Doesn't Rust again I think I know where GST got the "cybernetic" thing from. KARR mentions his need for a "cybernetic technician" which in this case was Bonnie. Still would like to know the reasoning as to why that was added to the name...

Also, after KvK where KARR did almost kill Eddie, I don't think it'd be too far off base to say he'd go on a killing spree after another couple decades of basically being a prisoner. KARR's personality would probably continue to go down a more and more sinister path.


I see your point and agree with you on that one. Being locked up and causing to go out of control making yourself kill people sound plausible!

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Army_F_Body » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:44 pm

I don't know where I know this from (TDR novelization comes to mind, which I know is not cannon, but it's been over 15 years since I read it so the details are fuzzy), but didn't KARR v.1 kill or get killed his original driver and a few technicians on his first test-run/assignment? I know he's killed (directly or indirectly) in the past which is why he was deemed so dangerous and stuck in the research lab waiting for Tonny and Rev to find him. According to that book KARR was built as an post Vietnam military weapon. He boasts his mastery of terrain in KvK but I still think a Trans Am would have some issues navigating the jungles of South East Asia. To me a humanoid robot mode/form makes perfect sense and a logical continuation of the first KARR project. The government had been designing flying wings since the end of WWII and just seemed to have gotten it right a few decades ago. If KARR started out a military project I'm sure the government would be interested if they knew he still existed and was just laying in pieces out under a bridge somewhere and continue the project over the last 20 years. No doubt la ot of manpower and money was spent on the first project so it makes sense to salvage what they could rather than build an all new all Gobot KARR from scratch.

Cannon-wise we know from TOS that the driver was basically all the back-door they needed in case KITT went nuts like KARR, and according to the show KARR was never intended to have a driver, but the novelizations were written by Larson so it gives you some insight into what he was thinking for the show.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:24 pm

Yeah, I remember the killed driver thing too, I was going to mention it but after watching the two KARR episodes again and seeing no mention of it, I didn't bother. But that probably seems right. :good:

Was that the origin of the KARR AI maybe? Hmm.... Need to get a hand one of those old books...
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Army_F_Body » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:18 pm

Yeah, the novels make him out to be a war machine more than an urban defender like KITT. I always like this theory better as KARR was in development for most of the 70s according to the novel and it makes sense that KITT was put together so quick in the pilot since most of the hard stuff had been worked out a decade earlier. The show made it appear that KARR was meant to be like KITT (same mission) but just failed and thus KITT was built from his ashes. However, since we know KARR was intact KITT had to be based on his design only. In fact didn't KITT start out as a government tool as well but didn't get along with the military mentality? I think that was mentioned in one of TOS episodes.

To me it seems that the shell is the easy part and we are dealing with complex AI's. Just because this new KARR is a mech of some kind and not a Mustang doesn't mean they can't share a similar heritage. I'm sure their core programming is very similar just one got stuck in a Mustang, the other a mech body. Maybe also, Graiman felt that KARR v.1 did have some redeeming qualities (he was more independent than KITT) and thought maybe he could work the bugs out and make it work.

Either way, I can't wait to see how this whole thing pans out!
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by _K3000_ » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:39 pm

umm it would make sense that hes both a car and a robot KARR= Knight Automated Roving Robot

Props up to this episode it was pure awesomeness
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Knight2000 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:55 pm

This episode was okay. Some average bits (double body, though I expected Zoe to be outed from SSC), some wierd bits (soundwaves) and some intriguing bits (KARR).

As soon as it was mentioned, I noted the car was a mustang, so realised it could never have been TOS KARR. Kinda a downer but at the same time an upper. TBH, as mentioned, it conflicts with TOS whereby KARR was a prototype that went bad, and was decommisioned. If Graiman was involved in the building of KITT, he probably would have known about KARR.

Basically, unless the writers can link KARR to the new K4RR, they buggered up!

Would have better to call it something else and have no link to KARR. Did like the missing memory thing.

Like I said elsewhere, I want the first season to reveal Mike's background - all of it - the link with Torres, Graiman and K4RR.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by original_cruz » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:44 pm

cloudkitt wrote:
original_cruz wrote:Is it really so hard to think Dr. Graiman isn't above repeating the mistakes of the past? Bruce Davison is a great actor, and I think it does him more justice to play a character who is not just another stereotypical sci-fi supergenius, but a flawed supergenius who makes the mistake of thinking age and experience has made him better


A)I'm pretty sure the "flawed" super-genious whose well-meaning robots end up killing people is far more stereotypical. B) Even so, there's being flawed, and there's being a freaking moron. Forget about programming, why would he have given another project the same moniker? That would be like naming a cruise ship Titanic, you just wouldn't do it.


You do a good job welcoming new members into the community! (/ sarcasm) Is your ego such that only your sense of logic applies to the story? Anything is possible in science fiction. I was just tossing some suppositions into the fray based on what we saw in just one episode. I guess somebody needed to crush my thoughts liberally into the pavement without trying to build on the possibilities I threw out there. :|

OK, since the popular sentiment is still dead set on new KARR being directly related to the old one, then in order to avoid further conflict with my fellow KR fans, let's just stick with that since other ideas are apparently unacceptable. Tony P is right about honoring your original source material, especially when you bill your show as being a continuation of that source. So by that token, let's hope it's the old KARR that has returned and forget what I said in my last post.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Army_F_Body » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:14 pm

_K3000_ wrote:umm it would make sense that hes both a car and a robot KARR= Knight Automated Roving Robot

Props up to this episode it was pure awesomeness


But technically aren't KITT, KARR and KITT 3K still robots? Wasn't KITT referenced as a robot-car in a few TOS episodes?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by mustang_fan91 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:40 pm

:kitt: Hey guys, just want to say that I like this series and I really do hope NBC doesn't quit on it. This episode was super awesome :kitt2:

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by cloudkitt » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:56 pm

original_cruz wrote:You do a good job welcoming new members into the community! (/ sarcasm) Is your ego such that only your sense of logic applies to the story? Anything is possible in science fiction. I was just tossing some suppositions into the fray based on what we saw in just one episode. I guess somebody needed to crush my thoughts liberally into the pavement without trying to build on the possibilities I threw out there. :|

OK, since the popular sentiment is still dead set on new KARR being directly related to the old one, then in order to avoid further conflict with my fellow KR fans, let's just stick with that since other ideas are apparently unacceptable. Tony P is right about honoring your original source material, especially when you bill your show as being a continuation of that source. So by that token, let's hope it's the old KARR that has returned and forget what I said in my last post.


Okay, there's no need to be melodramatic. I have said things I've regretted on this forum before, but this isn't one of them. At no point did I insult you. The "freaking moron" remark was referring to Graiman if he actually did build a second KARR. Is your ego such that a counter to a 'tossed supposition' is considered a personal attack?

I don't see how I crushed your thoughts literally(?) into the pavement? I could have had I wanted to, but I spelled out two reasons why I thought your supposition wouldn't fit with the character, if you have a response as to why Graiman might build another KARR, feel free to dispute, I don't recall banning you. But next time I see a new member, I'll be sure to treat whatever cockamamie ideas they might have as straight from GST for your sake.

Furthermore, I don't see how the popular sentiment is dead-set on KARR being directly related to the old one. I have seen many opinions as your own. If for some reason my disagreement makes your idea unacceptable, I apologize, but you're not the only one to have suggested what you did.


ANYWAY, I was looking at some of those breast cancer awareness Mustangs, and what KITT turned into was much cooler, with the black rims and hood scoop. I mention that because that's the way it should be. I wish that the normal KITT was altered from just a stock Mustang. (Mostly black rims, actually, I always liked that KITT was all black. I don't mind the stripes, I like them actually, but they're only slightly off-color from the black. And due to the construction of the car, I doubt brakelight blackouts would look good. but I wish there were a way.)
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by steventje » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:27 pm

What an episode.
We saw KITT driving for about 10 seconds :oops:
Why are they still calling the show Knight rider?
Anyway, I think most fans of TOS are very disappointed in this series.
Hopefully the reboot will bring some sunshine to the series 8)

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by arhskr81 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:40 pm

I am a fan of TOS and am very pleased with the new show, the b/c i do not compare it w/ TOS b/c it's not meant to be, any thing that has been remade or cont. from the 70's/80's has been besides charlie's angels.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:30 am

Knight Rider 1990 wrote:
vlcsnap-32809.png

One strange thing I noticed:Why does a lot of KI3T's heads up display look like something from the Halo 2 games?Just look at the screen,then look at the the message box(which says "setting up game")that comes before you join a game.I was playing Halo 2 not so long ago,and I just noticed it.
Congratulations!By reading this signature,KITT's AWESOMENESS has increased by ONE POINT!
So far KITT's power level is OVER 9,000!!!!
Petition #9

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Beyonder
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Beyonder » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:29 pm

I also like the fact that Kitt showed so much emotion in this episode... cant wait for the showdown betw Kitt and Karr. :good:

Jahades
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Jahades » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:58 pm

You guys don't realize this but This KARR is unlike the predecessor of the classic KARR. Graiman said in this episode That KARR Reprogrammed himself thus overridden Graiman's Safety Protocols. Where as KITT's Programming was perfected. Now, about the Name.

KR 82'

K.A.R.R

Knight Automated Roving Robot.

KR 08'

K.A.R.R

Knight Automated Roving Robotic-Exoskeloton.

They didn't want to put an E on the end or it would of been KARRE (cah-ur-ay) so they called it KARR.

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