Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by DevonStyles » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:14 am

I actually liked the episode. The lack of Kitt in action kinda sucked, but thinking about it I think I was more involved in the plot then I was waiting for kitt to do something. Sure it was a little tacky but I think it was a good eposide. I know with the mention of Karr I kinda perked up a little bit. Yea the Karr thing kinda dissapointed me... I was hoping for a car on car battle scene. Wa karr a segway or somthing?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by 2knight » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:15 am

Overall, I'd have to say this is one of my favorite episodes so far. I really like how KITT's character is evolving, and especially the sequence where he was replaying his favorite memories. At least this episode, there was also some character development among the SSC crew, though in general I'd prefer more focus on KITT and Mike.

Overall, I'm okay with KARR being something more robotic, though I seriously hope they tie up the loose ends on continuity by having it somehow have either the TOS KARR's cpu or programming evolved and upgraded over the years to current levels of technology. It would actually be cool to see KITT battle the robotic thing (as long as he doesn't turn into a Transformer himself). Since Charles is also supposed to have built the original KI2T, it seems extremely likely that he also built the original KARR and even if he didn't he would have been around at the time and certainly would have known about KARR. I really don't see him renaming a new project as KARR. As someone pointed out in another thread it would be bad mojo -- like renaming another ship Titanic -- or another Ford Edsel. If this is supposed to be a continuation of the original series, as we have been often told, the most plausible explanation the writers could come up with is that the government used the original KARR cpu or software to make this robot, either unknown to FLAG or at FLAG's objection. From what I've seen from the writers so far, I'm not sure this will be the case, but I'll keep an open mind in the hopes that they will wrap up all the loose ends in a way that honors this show's continuity with TOS.

While I'm excited about the new show, I sometimes get the feeling that the writers and producers either A) only watched a few episodes of TOS, if at all; B) have watched them all, but just don't have a clue what made TOS so great to all us longtime fans; or C) have totally left any sense reality and continuity behind in favor of wtf moments, action, and CGI effects.

As someone else mentioned, it did seem that they were dancing around saying that KARR had been a Trans Am (if this is in fact the same KARR). I wonder if this has anything to do with GM and not Ford. In TOS, there was some stipulation about not calling KITT a Trans Am after the first season -- perhaps this is some continuation of that and not because of Ford. I've often wondered why they didn't bring back the Trans Am in the Knight Rider 2000 movie - was there some bad blood between KR and GM or were they just trying to upgrade the car to something newer?

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this episode. Overall it was good, but they had better pull the KARR thing together in a good way. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Judd » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:21 am

I did like the episode for the most part. I liked seeing Billy strutting around as Captain Jack. The visual effects were impressive. The plot had a good pacing to it. There were some very effective and suspenseful moments. Seeing Thing was fun too. For a cost cutting episode it was good. It's too bad it wasn't shown on the original airdate.

As for new KARR, which I see as having no relation to the original Pttttt.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by KRAvengerII » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:33 am

BlueChaos wrote:What a great episode, perfectly set for Halloween! Here's my breakdown of my favourite moments:

1. KITT's "memory lane". Honestly, that was so sentimental that I teared myself during that scene. It was like he was really going to "die", like how humans' memories flash before their eyes when they are about to die.

2. Zoe-Claire. Hawwwwtttttttt!!!

3. KITT's personality getting better. I love it when Mike told him to calculate faster and KITT said that because Mike is not injured, then he just calculated fast enough. That's cool.

4. KARR. I think they are not going with the original KARR here, but it's a "renewed origin story" of KARR. Like how this KITT is KI3T and not KI2T, let's just say that this new KARR (KARR-E? Cute name!) is not the old KARR. KI3T got his own origin story and they still name him KITT. So why can't they give KARR a whole new origin story and still call him KARR(-E)? I think it will be very interesting if just like some have stated here, Mike was originally the driver for KARR. I can't wait for episode 13. Maybe KARR will see Mike again and say "Hello, Mike..." and then his memories of Iraq returns. At least now we know he's got something to do with KARR.

Also I can't help to wonder why some people complain he has to be a Trans-Am? I think the way they first showed him as a Mustang is a nice touch. This way the setup of Mustang KITT vs Mustang KARR would be plausible. Only matter is who got the better transformation, that's all (and that's something I think Sarah can handle, since she also seems to know KARR). But let's hope the final scene between KITT and KARR doesn't turn into the Transformers robo-brawl, that would be SO BAD.

It's also a wonder how the writers manage to accomplish more by KITT standing still rather than KITT moving.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by PatrickGSR94 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:40 am

2knight wrote:As someone else mentioned, it did seem that they were dancing around saying that KARR had been a Trans Am (if this is in fact the same KARR). I wonder if this has anything to do with GM and not Ford. In TOS, there was some stipulation about not calling KITT a Trans Am after the first season -- perhaps this is some continuation of that and not because of Ford. I've often wondered why they didn't bring back the Trans Am in the Knight Rider 2000 movie - was there some bad blood between KR and GM or were they just trying to upgrade the car to something newer?


The Knight Industries Four Thousand (in the KR 2000 movie, which doesn't really fit in the sequence of course) appeared to be heavily based upon the Pontiac Banshee concept vehicle, still one of my most favorite concept cars of all time. I would think that GM still had some part in KR 2000.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by cloudkitt » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:45 am

Holy crap, how the hell are you all so convinced its not the original KARR? KITT said "my original prototype," if it's not the original KARR, why wouldn't have just said "my prototype?"

If Graiman built the original KITT, he built the original KARR. There is NO WAY he built ANOTHER KARR with the SAME design flaw. I mean seriously, come on. All they had left of him was the CPU, so the government put him in a robot, adding to the acronym, I'm not even sure he's a transformer. KITT ALSO said "at the time of his last deactivation." Implying that he had been deactivated more than once.

It's the same AI, face it. I admit, I WILL be disappointed if they put KARR in a Mustang for some strange reason.

(And about the Trans Am, it's a little odd they didn't say it. But since it's a GM car that is no longer in production, nor does it have any logos on it, Ford shouldn't have any problems with it. They did say Trans Am in the pilot)
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by MR2NR » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:54 am

PatrickGSR94 wrote:
2knight wrote:As someone else mentioned, it did seem that they were dancing around saying that KARR had been a Trans Am (if this is in fact the same KARR). I wonder if this has anything to do with GM and not Ford. In TOS, there was some stipulation about not calling KITT a Trans Am after the first season -- perhaps this is some continuation of that and not because of Ford. I've often wondered why they didn't bring back the Trans Am in the Knight Rider 2000 movie - was there some bad blood between KR and GM or were they just trying to upgrade the car to something newer?




Much less almost every car was GM. Hell who in there right mind would use Beretta's?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by JJSoCrazy » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:59 am

cloudkitt wrote:Holy crap, how the hell are you all so convinced its not the original KARR? KITT said "my original prototype," if it's not the original KARR, why wouldn't have just said "my prototype?"

If Graiman built the original KITT, he built the original KARR. There is NO WAY he built ANOTHER KARR with the SAME design flaw. I mean seriously, come on. All they had left of him was the CPU, so the government put him in a robot, adding to the acronym, I'm not even sure he's a transformer. KITT ALSO said "at the time of his last deactivation." Implying that he had been deactivated more than once.

It's the same AI, face it. I admit, I WILL be disappointed if they put KARR in a Mustang for some strange reason.

(And about the Trans Am, it's a little odd they didn't say it. But since it's a GM car that is no longer in production, nor does it have any logos on it, Ford shouldn't have any problems with it. They did say Trans Am in the pilot)


I agree with you and this does make me feel better about the whole "original prototype" thing and the fact that why the hell would they do another design flaw, makes no god damn sense. I just hope they do use the original CPU!

Now I have some comments to make about this whole KARR thing.

Ok here goes lol:

I just posted up on the Knight Writers site a comment on the episode about KARR and I really hope they answer it!

Now the fact of this new KARR being some crazy cyborg robot thing is applicable in this case because it was I assumed designed for military use and the ultimate weapon but went haywire like Torres killing 7 people.

Now I hope they do this:

Bring back the old CPU from TOS KARR and had put it in this new prototype before KI3T and had done this for some reason because of the first prototype of KARR from TOS. Obviously they have some knowledge of the original mythology because they want to bring back the whole prototype with KARR and KI3T. If this is the case and they put the original CPU into this new KARR I think it will work much better. I am surprise that KITT didn't mention this episode and yet about the KI2T, maybe he will soon. Also remember the fact KITT doesn't have all files on KARR as he said in the episode. I just pray they don't ignore the original mythology.

Hope they do it well according to original mythology and for the sake of this show!

Joe

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by cloudkitt » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:50 am

And I don't think putting KARR into a robot had ANYTHING to do with KI3T. IT wasn't some precursor, the military probably just wanted the AI.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Garthe Knight » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:02 pm

My theory is:
the military found KARR and wanted Grayman to reprogramm it for their robotic prototype. They used KARR's CPU because it was so advanced and planted it in the neuro-curcuits of the robot.
KARR was sent to iraq, that's why Mike seems to remember him, and after something really went wrong they deactivated KARR. That's why Torres and Grayman don't want Mike to remember.
So somehow KARR gets reactivated, but his databanks has been wiped out. That's why the wanted KITT's databanks. Later maybe KARR's body is destroyed, so they steal KITT's outer shell, the Mustang.

So this KARR can be the original one, modified, updated, whatever.

Wait and see.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Knight Racer » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:15 pm

Dr. Graighlin messed up his line he said if they succeeded at outting kitt's cpu into karr's body they will have created the ultimate weapon.Wouldn't it be karr's cpu into kitt's body?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by JJSoCrazy » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:47 pm

I also forgot to state one more thing. How come Mike & Sarah stated "we thought you were one of a kind KITT?" and KITT agreed then went on about KARR. Why the hell has no one mentioned KI2T? That would of been a perfect moment!

Here is my thing with KARR to clarify:

He was probably re-activated as a prototype of KI3T before KITT was put to work. Then TOS CPU of KARR was placed in this "thing" that was projected on the screen because the military probably wanted Graiman to build them something. So he used that and then it went haywire and he thought his was de-commissioned. This is what I believe is going to happen. And remember KITT didn't have access to all the files!

Garthe Knight wrote:My theory is:
the military found KARR and wanted Grayman to reprogramm it for their robotic prototype. They used KARR's CPU because it was so advanced and planted it in the neuro-curcuits of the robot.
KARR was sent to iraq, that's why Mike seems to remember him, and after something really went wrong they deactivated KARR. That's why Torres and Grayman don't want Mike to remember.
So somehow KARR gets reactivated, but his databanks has been wiped out. That's why the wanted KITT's databanks. Later maybe KARR's body is destroyed, so they steal KITT's outer shell, the Mustang.

So this KARR can be the original one, modified, updated, whatever.

Wait and see.


Good way to put it Garthe Knight, I agree and I think it will be this way I hope!

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by PatrickGSR94 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:12 pm

I remember a few times in the old shows where KITT was stolen and somehow reprogrammed or taken control of. I'm sure it will happen at least once in this series.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Just1Philly » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:15 pm

Garthe Knight wrote:My theory is:
the military found KARR and wanted Grayman to reprogramm it for their robotic prototype. They used KARR's CPU because it was so advanced and planted it in the neuro-curcuits of the robot.
KARR was sent to iraq, that's why Mike seems to remember him, and after something really went wrong they deactivated KARR. That's why Torres and Grayman don't want Mike to remember.
So somehow KARR gets reactivated, but his databanks has been wiped out. That's why the wanted KITT's databanks. Later maybe KARR's body is destroyed, so they steal KITT's outer shell, the Mustang.

So this KARR can be the original one, modified, updated, whatever.

Wait and see.


plus the other thing i though of is was micheal was gettin the guy that use his dna for the code maybe that was the code to turn on karr and at the end of the show thats when they say i hope michael does not remember n e thing ?????

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Bishop37 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:06 pm

So was Charles shot or wasn't he, or for that matter, the real Zoe?

Why did Fake Zoe leave them alive and how could she miss them from such short range?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by divalover159 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:55 pm

i'll tell you one thing, they really better do this right. KARR needs to be KARR. i just don't get why ford desn't team up with gm and make this thing right. because this series taks off where the original left off. it's just more in the future. so to be able to pull this thing off right KARR needs to stay the KARR we all know and love and not some damn robot. and we the die-hard knight rider fans needs to some how let them all know this. it will not work anyother way. KARR needs to be KARR and thats all there is to it people. -----------------> :karr: :good:

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by My_Friend_KITT » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:44 pm

I just re-watched it and two things I found cute.
#1- Thing from Addams Family- loved Billy's reactions
#2- The Pixar lamps- How cute when they lowered their lamps
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Knightfreak » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:04 pm

I dunno guys, but I think we should be happy with what we got. Alhought I must say that there are small things that should be changed to make it much better. First of all:

1. The episode is too short: I mean when you compare it with the original series than I notice that very little things happen in the new episode. Before you know crime is fighted and then KITT returns home. But in the original series there is a long chase after the bad guys.

2. The episode from November 5, was very confusing. First u got the shooting and the self destruct thing from KITT. Then suddenly they start talking about KARR. They were looking for the shooter and the episode was going into a climax and then suddenly it ends. And then they start talking about KARR. I mean it is very obvious that in the next episode KARR will appear. It would have been more nice if this episode was a part 1 of 2. And then it should had end with an appearance of KARR. And on next episode there would be a fight between KITT and KARR

these are all comments from my side

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by NeoRanger » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:43 pm

It seems that the KARR(E?) stuff are the hot topic and rightfully so. Personally, I'd like to avoid jumping to conclusions, but I'll be very surprised if the new KARR has no connection whatsoever with the original. The way the whole thing was set up, the conversations, the information revealed... it just begs to be connected. It would be OK, if we were looking at a remake, but for a continuation, the whole set up is weird if we're talking whole new KARR. The design flaw, the "prototype" stuff, even the name. Seriously, they knew that some 20-odd years ago there was a killer car named KARR, so when they made another super-AI they named it after him for... good... luck? Even in real life, people involved in projects avoid naming them after past failures.

I'm in favor of the theory that the original KARR AI was *at least* the basis for the new one. Of course, there is still way too much room for speculation, so we won't know for a while. On another note, didn't GST answer questions regarding KARR's appearance at some point? I seem to recall that the answers, while vague about their content, were pretty clearly concerning the original KARR. I'd like to believe he wasn't yanking our chains; he's been quite good with us so far.

All that aside, now, the episode was very, very impressive. For starters, it was mostly solid, with characterization, tension and even emotional parts (don't tell me nobody even felt anything when KITT was displaying the ending scene from the 2nd episode on that monitor). And considering that holiday episodes -and especially Halloween- is the excuse many "light" shows find to downright suck (I'm looking at YOU Vampire Lana Lang from three seasons ago), I was impressed that Knight Rider did anything but. Big props for not passing the episode off as a holiday ep, but instead treating it like every other in the season.

The monitor scene reminded me a lot of the RNA crap from KR2000. Don't care how much the concept sucked, seeing Devon's final thoughts with clips from TOS was heartbreaking. Here it makes sense, which makes it all the more cool. They seem to have permanently synched the scanner sound, good for them, SKI mode is back -even if in name only- and the KNIGHT plates are back. Nothing better than people who know how to look for improvement.

Only two things I didn't like: one, Michael can't decide how much he likes KITT. At first he's all upset and "I'm not letting you throw him out of the plane, disarm his inner-bomb you biach" and then suddenly it's Sarah that cares about that and Mike is all "OMG, we gotta jump off!". A little consistency, please.

And the other one? This. Even I know that you don't hold a gun like that. Seriously, Ms FBI.

Still, a surprisingly satisfying episode. Despite what "professional" reviews will say (who seem like they keep slamming the show, as part of some weird ritual to bring dead puppies back to life or something).
Last edited by NeoRanger on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Sue » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:45 pm

My_Friend_KITT wrote:I just re-watched it and two things I found cute.
#1- Thing from Addams Family- loved Billy's reactions
#2- The Pixar lamps- How cute when they lowered their lamps

I still have yet to rewatch it, but yes I thought that was cute too. I just remembered something that struck me as odd. Mike says can't I just cut a wire like they do in the movies. ... uh Mike.. you mean that thing you just did in the last episode.. humm..

NeoRanger wrote:And the other one? This. Even I know that you don't hold a gun like that. Seriously, Ms FBI.

Oh.. lol looks like they need to bring back Kevin Dunigan to give them some more training.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by NeoRanger » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:56 pm

Sue wrote: I just remembered something that struck me as odd. Mike says can't I just cut a wire like they do in the movies. ... uh Mike.. you mean that thing you just did in the last episode.. humm..

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Graiman » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:07 pm

Okay I have a view observations on the whole KARR thing:
1 we all know that Karr has self preservation
2 at the end of Kitt vs Karr Karr's Cpu was still somewhat functional
3 In referring to KARR as the reason for KI3T's self destruct KITT said Graiman was worried that he would learn to "self program"

So what if someone after cleaning up the after math of the battle of Kitt Vs Karr sold off all the junk and someone who did not know what they had integrated KARR'S cpu into somsthing new and over the years he has slowly been "learning" and rebuilding himself and programming new abilities for himself. Ultimately becoming what we saw in the blueprints. It could even turn out that KARR is the source of KI3T's Nanotechnology? Who knows what KITT is really capable of? Maybe KARR Michael Graiman and Alex all have some hidden past. I think Graiman and Alex have battled over Karr in the past and Alex is hiding something from Michael and Graiman has said that when Michael remembers Michael will go after Alex. Its possible that its something to do with KARR.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by mykittcar » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:18 pm

Hello

I like the episode . I was very odd that KARR is a robot not a another mustang. KARR was a trans am so how come they built another after it was destroyed and was a threat of FLAGG from TOS why would they go and do another.I was wondering if Charles built the fist KITT form TOS and knew how a threat KARR was to Flagg why build another how stupid .And another thing if Charles said in the movie he was resurrecting the foundation and he was going to be in charge how come he isn't in the episodes it seems like he isn't all the time there giving the orders and make sure they are being done other the other guy that i hate he has a thing by putting his hands by his sides all the time and to pushy and he acts like hes in charge of the foundation witch he isn't because Charles has the authority to do what ever he wants like the self destruct system and to him he has no right to put in KITT i don't get that if Charles is in charge of the who thing and the FBI was not to be involved in missions at all when they were in the limo going towards the funeral of mikes mom. Things don't add up to me at all

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by weeezl » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:30 pm

Interesting, Im still not sure wheter deactivated means they just disabled Karr like in TDR and stuck him in storage or they have destroyed his body?

I dont wanna see KARR's cpu in KI3T, I wanna see KI3T face to face with this thing.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: Knight of the Living Dead

Post by Knight4life » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:32 pm

The pacing,the little intensity was better from the previous episodes (except a Hard Day's knight).the initial fun part was good as well.Problems were in the KARR story arc,is he some sort of mecha-battle robot like we see in mecha animes? i also didn't buy the sound wave capturing method at all.it was ridiculous.When the infiltrator/impersonator was at a very close range why didn't he end up shooting charles and zoe dead?i didn't notice any bullet wound or blood stain on both of them.this was another big flaw in the episode.Zoe grabbing the gun from the imposter in the end didn't look 2 convincing,she could have simply jumped over her knocking the baddie down and kicked the gun out of the way after a second.Torres or Carrie could have shot the infiltrator much easily knowing the fact that she can be shot hence her mission of giving the data she wanted to give to the agency she works for cannot be successful meaning the baddie was in a far more bad situation over billy.

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