KARR continuity

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by WIBoomer1 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:02 pm

Here's my 2 bits to raise to the community...

the 82 KARR was built to be the one and only FLAGship. There was nothing planned to mass produce the vehicle, or to make any copies, until the self-preservation programming flaw was discovered. Now, instead of taking KARR off-line, and taking out his CPU, and re-writing the code and therefore not wasting another 11 million 1982 dollars, it was decided to create another vehicle, with the exact same capacities as the first flawed creation, ala KI2T. why?

BECAUSE THE WRITERS SAID SO!

It was an easy route/story to do. You have all these 12 copies of the modified T/A...let's do a doppelganger story! It works out wonderfully for the story, and because the the show was so early into it's run, it was a flavor of the week. It's typical of early 80's TV to not have the kind of continuity that we enjoy/demand today.

Let's look besides the fact that the fans of the original show really wanted to see KARR in his glory come back and kick the crap out of KI2T and Michael Knight Sr. Let's imagine that KARR's CPU was recovered by the military after the final showdown. Does it make sense that it would be sitting around unused for 26 years? it does, and why is that...

BECAUSE THE WRITERS SAID SO!

There's no right or wrong in what the weekly series has done in trying to re-introduce this 08 KARR. I think we as fans got our undies in a bundie because we saw Graiman's Garage in the Feb 08 Movie, and we saw KI2T's dismembered parts laying around. We were told that Graiman was asked/told to build a new vehicle, KI3T. As we now see, did one man build KI3T? nope, not with 700 people to support it at the KITTCAVE. There's no way. We're also told that Graiman built KI2T...and therefore, KARR. There's no going back once the facts were presented this way. I'm betting that Graiman was brought on board by the government to re-write KARR's CPU coding, so it could be used in this new shell, built for military infiltration missions. The self-learning aspect leads me to believe that Graiman thought he had over-written the bad coding, but KARR hid it away, and came back to his original self-preservation mode as he was being field-tested.

I just wish that they would have stated that the shell was a Hummvee, or some other military vehicle that you would see in Iraq, since I highly doubt you see many sports cars there. Would a Mustang make a good choice for infiltration in IRAQ? The Ford sponsorship dictates it would, but you'd think they'd want to make the car FIT IN to the area...

I don't think KARR's an all-new vehicle with new AI. It's a amalgamation of the old and the new. I just don't really see how this 08 KARR could be a prototype of KI3T, since he seemingly can transform into a bi-pedal machine with arms. What real purpose would these arms serve? And as I've stated before, because it looks like the pilot's compartment swivels up and into the chest of this creation, where/how is it piloted in this configuration? We'll get answers soon enough, because...

THE WRITERS SAID SO!

Hopefully, the writers were also smart enough to make the new KARR able to transform into other vehicles, that and not shiny new vehicles, but dented, rusted, older Ford Products...perhaps a 84 SVT Mustang???

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by knightriderfan80 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:56 am

Great... so I guess we won't be seeing at least a cameo of KI2T like GST was saying he wanted to do... figures... another let down by production.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:27 am

knightriderfan80 wrote:Great... so I guess we won't be seeing at least a cameo of KI2T like GST was saying he wanted to do... figures... another let down by production.
Why is everyone jumping to conclusions without knowin the whole story?

I say wait till we actually see what happens before we judge.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by knightprobe89 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:36 am

Mike Knight wrote:PheonixZero said it best. Using KARR's name and having it NOT be the same KARR from TOS was a deliberate bait-and-switch. It's pathetic, it's stupid, it's wrong.

If you're not going to give a damn about continuity and rewrite it whenever you feel like it, than don't do a sequel series. Start from scratch. I would have prefurred they did that instead of getting my expectations up and pulling a 180 on me.

I'm all for the show doing it's own thing, but you can't pull something like this. It would be as if they said the "Knight Industries Two Thousand" was going to have a guest appearance on the show, and it turned out to be another Mustang with Val Kilmer's voice that was not the same one from TOS. It was a trick to get more viewers.

But more distressing is the fact that a lot of posters here are okay about the KARR bait-and-switch. I don't care if you want to see something new. I can't argue about whether or not you like the KITT transformations and Billy/Zoe or whatnot, I don't even mind that you guys actually want to see a complete ripoff of Transformers in this new KARR. But you guys shouldn't be okay with using that name when it isn't what we expect that name to be. Call it something else, for God's sake. "KARR" sets up certain expectations which have been shattered for me.

As for door #1.... Michael, you indicated that you knew it wasn't the same AI when you mentioned a set visit. Does this mean you actually didn't know? If you were so confident earlier about the fact that it was an entirely new entity, then why even mention something like #1 as an option?

If you weren't sure, then you shouldn't have acted like you were. Similarly, if you know it's not the same KARR but are still acting like it might still be, that's just rude.
i totally agree with you, very well put!!! :good:
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Sue » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:08 am

Considering how the writers are still waiting to hear the definite word to go ahead and write Hasselhoff into season two, I think they have been leaving a lot of the TOS related story lines kind of vague. They probably don't want to write themselves into a corner where they couldn't go back and talk about KI2T or KARR in later episodes. It's just a guess, but I'd image that we will be speculating about the origins of KARR just as much as we speculate about KI2T in the garage. What I do know is that the KITT v KARR show down will make a TOS fan very happy.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Amir » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:38 am

I really don't understand that. Yep, using the name KARR, and yet making it as though he has nothing to do with the original really does seem like they were trying to pull fans of the original show. And it's silly.

They could just say that this KARR is based on the CPU of the original car, which was upgraded, updated, 'fixed', and had it's memory erased to make sure he has no connection to his 'evil' past. That's it. It would take 20 seconds out of the episode and I wouldn't ask for anything more. No references to the original KITT v KARR episodes, no cheesy lines like 'I was beaten by your father, and now I will have my revenge on his son". Just connect the two series.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Tony P Knight Driver » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:55 pm

My two cents on KARR.
True continuity in any given TV series or movie, for that matter, is a rare and special thing these days.

Unfortunately in today’s market creative license and marketing decisions often take precedence over maintaining true and accurate continuity, at any given moment.

Best example I can offer would be Star Trek: ENTERPRISE. Here is an entire series about a ship and crew which, according to every Start Trek book, series or movie, never existed.

That is one of the reasons it is called entertainment.

Don’t get upset about KARR being a new incarnation or a revisit from the old CPU, just watch the show when it airs. Judge it for what it is entertainment.

If after you after you watch the episode, you are still disappointed or in some way feel you were let down by the writer and producers, it’s understandable. But right now its all speculation so don’t hate on KARR just yet.

You may find the new KARR is a different version of the KARR you are anticipating, but that ok. Its also ok to like both the new KARR and the original KARR, and respect them for what each of them brings to the show.

Like Cary Grant said in Operation Petticoat “Its like watching striptease act. Don’t ask how it’s done; just enjoy what’s coming off.”
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by pheonix_knight » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:42 pm

Tony P Knight Driver wrote:My two cents on KARR.
True continuity in any given TV series or movie, for that matter, is a rare and special thing these days.

Unfortunately in today’s market creative license and marketing decisions often take precedence over maintaining true and accurate continuity, at any given moment.

Best example I can offer would be Star Trek: ENTERPRISE. Here is an entire series about a ship and crew which, according to every Start Trek book, series or movie, never existed.

That is one of the reasons it is called entertainment.

Don’t get upset about KARR being a new incarnation or a revisit from the old CPU, just watch the show when it airs. Judge it for what it is entertainment.

If after you after you watch the episode, you are still disappointed or in some way feel you were let down by the writer and producers, it’s understandable. But right now its all speculation so don’t hate on KARR just yet.

You may find the new KARR is a different version of the KARR you are anticipating, but that ok. Its also ok to like both the new KARR and the original KARR, and respect them for what each of them brings to the show.

Like Cary Grant said in Operation Petticoat “Its like watching striptease act. Don’t ask how it’s done; just enjoy what’s coming off.”
Enterprise as a series was doomed before it started as it was intended to be a prequel but used methods and set designs which were at least 40 years after the show they were 'forshadowing...'

However, KR08 IS a continuation of the 80s show and has ALWAYS be promoted as such so logically the KARR storyline should follow on from what TOS fans know. GST even referenced KARR and TOS mythology in comic con, I'm struggling to see how the guy said alll that back then could suddenly get it wrong now...???

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by KnightINSTINCT » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:45 pm

Am I the only one who prays this new KARR is not equiped with the 80's CPU?

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:04 am

Like I said before in another topic, the AI Unit was more than just a CPU. The AI Unit interfaced with the Knight 2000's on board computer that was separate from the AI Unit and the same could easily be done again. Granted the "brains" behind the car would still be weak in comparison but that doesn't mean they couldn't upgrade it or take the code and integrate it more into the new body and "neutral net". Or they could easily enough explain that the new KARR(E) is just based off the original AI's design.

Hell, even if the AI is of the original KARR was a part of this version they could easily leave out KARR mentioning anything of the past due to KARR's memory banks possibly being destroyed, unless that was a part of the box that housed the AI. By having some group after the new KITT's data there's certainly something going on.

Either way, there's no reason why it at the very least shouldn't have any connection to the original KARR if this show is meant to be a continuation.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Kaine » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:27 am

pheonix_knight wrote:...GST even referenced KARR and TOS mythology in comic con, I'm struggling to see how the guy said alll that back then could suddenly get it wrong now...???
well, on comic con GST said "believe me, we have so many turbo boosts, you will be sick of it"...
in total we had two of them, and at least i am not quite sick of turbo boost yet. i'd take every word from GST with a pinch of salt... :?

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:45 pm

Kaine wrote:i'd take every word from GST with a pinch of salt... :?
I've been doing that too,and I think everyone should at least take it with a little pinch.Not too much,but a very small amount.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by coach41 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:01 am

[quote="pheonix_knight"][quote="Tony P Knight Driver"][color=#0000BF}

Best example I can offer would be Star Trek: ENTERPRISE. Here is an entire series about a ship and crew which, according to every Start Trek book, series or movie, never existed.

While I understand your point about Star Trek: Enterprise, we can't also forget that Star Trek: The Next Generation (and other series) also existed. Taking place in the far future as compared to Star Trek the original series (3 seasons and 6 movies), ST: TNG DID acknowledge it was a continuation and/or sequel to the original series.

ST: TNG did not alter any historical information. Captain Kirk and company were the crew of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701/1701A. One difference is that ST: TNG did not continue any story lines that were left hanging in the original series.

KR08 is trying to be ST: TNG. It took a few seasons before ST:TNG really took off. Unfortunately, re-writing history/continuity is not always a good idea, especially when it comes to a popular character such as KARR.

That being said, while I hope that the original KARR is at least mentioned, I won't be upset if the "new KARR" is not the original KARR. The writers are entitled to do what they feel best, so I'll leave it to them.

If I had a choice, the original Knight Rider series should have concluded the KARR story line in the 80's. I'm sure most fans would have preferred that. I'm surprised that the original writers did not try in season 4. If the original series had wrapped the story line, then the new series could pick up from almost anywhere they wanted and there would be no complaints. I think that is what irks a lot of original fans. We really wanted a chance to see the original KARR storyline finished and some are not happy that it might not happen the way we want it to.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Lost Knight » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:58 am

At least time-travel/different dimensions, etc. exist in the Star Trek universe, meaning that it's so deep into sci-fi that events in timelines can be changed and made into episodes.

If it turns out that the original K.A.R.R. never existed, that would make this series more comparable to Superman Returns in terms of picking and choosing which movies to pick up and continue from, blatantly disregarding particular sequels, and on top of that not even paying close enough attention to the continuity of the first two films it was supposed to be continuing off of.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:02 am

I started thinking about something.
We're all under the impression that KARRs CPU actually survived the showdown in KITT VS KARR because we saw a blinking light at the end.
We dont know that KARR did survive. We dont know he didnt.
That means this KARR should be able to exsist without any true connection to the original car, aslong as they dont say the original ever exsisted.
But we're all jumping to way way awy too many conclusions without actually knowing any true facts. The episode hasnt aired yet, so we dont know what's gonna happen.
I'm just waiting to see, and thats my stance on this. :)
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by KnightRiderKR » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:23 am

KARR as a Black and Silver Trans Am DID exist, wether they choose to bring him back in some kind of continuation fashion is up in the air to us people who don't know anything about the current KARR. I'd like to see him as a Black GT500KR with silver stripes or something similar. The producers can choose to ignore the original KARR, hell the producers of Star Trek make a habit of ignoring history. If they did ignore the original KARR I won't be surprised one bit.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by cloudkitt » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:27 am

The writer's being allowed to do whatever they want argument doesn't really hold a lot of water in my opinion. Sure, they CAN, they could say Michael Knight is actually a shape-shifting elephant-man from the 3rd century if they wanted to, but they'd be laughed out of the business.

Yes, it COULD be a new AI, but they've repeatedly told us this is a sequel. Now, if KARR had been definitively destroyed in the original Knight Rider and they wanted to bring back a recognizable name, fine. But when KITT vs KARR leaves them with such an OBVIOUS and EASY route to sensibly bring the character back into the story why the hell would they come up with a nonsensical one?

I'm really not asking much, he doesn't have to be voiced by Peter Cullen or Paul Frees, he doesn't have to be (and very well shouldn't be) in a Trans Am, he doesn't even have to act particularly like KARR. Since it will be far more believable that his programming has been changed (either from the outside or by himself) than just some absolute moron gave a new AI the same name as the last disaster. As I said in another thread, would you name your cruise ship Titanic? Didn't think so.

I know you theorized that they are erasing the old KARR from the continuity, but the writers and actors have mentioned the old KARR on several occasions (including KRO's most recent interviews), I just don't see them then saying in the show that he didn't exist.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by coach41 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:51 pm

BTW - I thought I had posted a message but it didn't show up. Does anyone know if:

A. The new "KARR" will have a speaking part in the show? (I Assume Yes)

B. Who is voicing KARR? Peter Cullen would be a nice choice as Paul Frees has passed on.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Sue » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:43 pm

coach41 wrote:BTW - I thought I had posted a message but it didn't show up. Does anyone know if:

A. The new "KARR" will have a speaking part in the show? (I Assume Yes)

B. Who is voicing KARR? Peter Cullen would be a nice choice as Paul Frees has passed on.
Yes he speaks, I heard a temp track of it. I believe it was voiced by one of the VFX staff if my memory serves. Whoever it was it sounded great! :good:
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Drifty » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:02 pm

I think KARR's should be the voice that we heard in the KRO youtube clips when KI3T spoke. It wasn't Val Kilmer, it was a more deep sounding voice and I think it would fit in well with KARR. Anyone agree?

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by Lexicon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:05 pm

Drifty wrote:I think KARR's should be the voice that we heard in the KRO youtube clips when KI3T spoke. It wasn't Val Kilmer, it was a more deep sounding voice and I think it would fit in well with KARR. Anyone agree?
If you mean Will Arnett, the original voice of the new KITT, he is not allowed to do voice-over work for the show because GM has a contract with him to do voice over work for their commercials, and they will not let him do voice-over work on a show sponsored by Ford which is exactly why he stepped down and Val Kilmer stepped in to voice KITT.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:32 am

It wasn't Will Arnett. There were two place holder voices and they were featured in almost every promo outside of one or two that had Arnett's voice.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by CJaguar442 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:22 am

When Will Arnett becomes available they should fire Val Kilmer. For example, when Universal fired Eric Stoltz soon as Michael J. Fox became available to make Back to the Future. The best decision they ever made.
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Re: KARR continuity

Post by dag268 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:04 am

I think they could wrap up a couple loose ends in the KARR episode. Charles working on KARR could help explain the multiple Trans Ams in his garage in the movie, as well as allow us the fans to see KITT and KARR side by side. In TOS it wasnt unusual to see file footage. Why couldnt they use footage from Trust dosent Rust and KITT vs KARR, to fill Michael Jr on to what he is up against and where it began. They made a KI3T and it isnt the original. Its not that far a leap for them to attempt to build another KARR, and hope they fixed the problems of the original.

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Re: KARR continuity

Post by goldbug » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:26 pm

knightriderfan80 wrote:Great... so I guess we won't be seeing at least a cameo of KI2T like GST was saying he wanted to do... figures... another let down by production.
While I agree we should take GST's word with a grain of salt, he never said KI2T would be featured. He merely expressed a desire to see it featured. I have a desire to see Deanna Russo pop up magically in my kitchen baking me a cake but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. :)
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