I saw the new KARR

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Kaine
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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by Kaine » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:07 am

Knight4life wrote:...maybe this is the KR for today's F&F and Transformers generation and not for us.


well, rating-wise this is the KR for nobody at all... today's F&F and Transformers generation seems as unimpressed as we are, otherwise the ratings would be better.
but they aren't, which is a shame because in general i really have high hopes for the reboot. but from what they did to KARR my enthusiasm sunk quite a bit...
still i think the reboots new direction with storytelling much closer to TOS is a good thing, i just wish they'd honor TOS more and make the new show a continuation (i.e. in established canon) like they told us they would...
right now we got no reference to TOS at all, just some hints and winks in form of names, but nothing storywise. KARR would have been perfect to tie both shows together, while new viewers could easily understand the new show without any knowledge about TOS. unfortunately they missed that oportunity, like many others :(

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by Lexicon » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:27 am

Well, at least there is some hope for entertainment. I doubt it is the "original" KARR from the old show since the continuity doesn't really exist between the two takes on Knight Rider. If they can somehow make the latest KARR the original in a sensible and logical fashion, more power to them.

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by GarthKnight08 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:19 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:
KnightRiderKR wrote:


You can start with an early interview Neil did with GST:

"If you're going to go to series, you need to reinvent it."


Ok answer me this then? Why is the original idea so well recieved (Feb. Pilot) & the reinvention hated? GST is just some pervert, writing hack idiot in my opinion!
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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by ianruk » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:10 pm

ok this has been buggin me for a while since they introduced that there was KARR

when in the epsode they said 'i dont want another KARR on my hands'
if KARR can transform into a robot, does that mean KITT is able to if KARR can??

also i know theres a lot of talk about KARR being a robot and so on,dont get me wrong because im sure it 'might' be cool but it still doesnt feel knightrider-ish to me, KITT and KARR origianl was fun for me because they were 2 cars the same,but think of this,,KARR turns into a robot and goes crazy fighting with KITT that is just a car, doesnt that sound a bit weird??

if the start throwing punches or roundhouse kicks and stuff then it will make me so mad haha

also the new episode where they say 'Sarah and Dr. Graimantry to fix a sick robot.' do you think that could be KARR but he transformed into a different thing to trick them??
because the next epsidoe thing says 'Sarah receives some upsetting news about her dad'
something like when he is alone with the rebot he finds out its KARR by noticing something,or the robot shows his true self?

just a thought

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by neps » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:58 pm

GarthKnight08 wrote:
Michael Pajaro wrote:
KnightRiderKR wrote:


You can start with an early interview Neil did with GST:

"If you're going to go to series, you need to reinvent it."


Ok answer me this then? Why is the original idea so well recieved (Feb. Pilot) & the reinvention hated? GST is just some pervert, writing hack idiot in my opinion!


Watch the slander and langauge.

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by KnightCrusader99 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:35 pm

goldbug wrote:In the TKR universe, we got KRO, and while his story was different than TOS KARR's, it was still the premise of "We made a screwed up AI...again, whoops." So it's not as if we don't have a precedent for an episode involving a second killer car that had nothing to do with the first.


Actually, if I remember correctly, they didn't mess up on KRO's AI.... he was programmed to compliment and match the personality of his driver. In his case, Martin, his driver, was insane... and that made the car go insane. So that wasn't really the car's fault that FLAG placed a crazy man with the car...

I don't know about the whole "whole new and different AI" thing. My problem is I don't understand why they would make a whole new one for this thing. I mean, how could linking this KARR to the original KARR ruin anything in the story? If anything, it would help them...

Here is how I think about it... worst case scenario: Some kid who never has heard of the original Knight Rider tunes into the KARR episode and they hear the explanation that this is a crazy robot on the loose, developed my the military using the original KARR AI they had recovered. Okay, now they heard that fact. What would they get from it? They would know this thing is crazy and on the loose, something the new KI3T and MK Jr. would have to take care of. There is the motivation for the plot. What else does it provide? Well, for one, it throws us TOSers a bone and connects it to the original series, and we get all excited and tell our friends and watch more. What does this connection do to the new viewer? Well, two things... either the viewer could care less and just go from there, OR, they could get interested in what happened to KARR in the 80's and either go get the DVD sets for Season 1 and/or 3, or iTunes downloads for Trust Doesn't Rust and/or KITT vs. KARR (if they are available). Of course there is "other methods" to get them. But worst case.... the spend 5 second to mention this connection, and they can make a possible sale from a DVD or iTunes video. Why the heck wouldn't they want to do this?!? They want to make some money, here ya go... connect it to the original in small and subtle ways to get more new people both interesting in the new show and the backstory from the original series, and us die-hard fans happy.

Why don't they think of these things? I think I should be a network exec because I would have jumped all over this kind of thing.... but that's just me. Now I am going to step off my soapbox and take a breather....

I hope that rant made sense to someone...

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by Lexicon » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:09 pm

I think what people don't understand is that this show seems to be a continuation of the basic concept of Knight Rider but not a direct continuation of the four season continuity. I believe GST (or someone else involved in the show/telemovie) said something to that effect.

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by GT500KR » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:25 am

if it is not a direct contiuation, why are they doing a FLAG episode and trying to get the Hoff and possibly KI2T?
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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:42 am

What I dont get is the fact there are 2 KITTs and people can be OK with that, cause it is thought that KI2T's AI is probably still around somewhere. But people cant accept that there can be 2 KARRs.
Why?
Cant the original AI still be out there and KI still built an upgraded model, just like they did with KI3T.
It seems far too trivial to be this upset about a talking computer in a car from the 80s. It's a show. They can do what they want..

I really hope this is a different KARR, because there was already a KARR and I feel that they should just leave the old story where it is and just make a new KARR.
Seinfeld would have been alot better to me if I had never seen the way they closed the story up. If I had just stopped watching I would have been satisified by the first 9 years and not have had the story ruined.
I want them to let the original KARR story just rest and not give us an ending, cause it might let everyone down...
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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:33 am

Story ruined? The characters on Seinfeld were a bunch of self-centered jerks who in the end got what they deserved. I didn't like the ending either when I first saw it but after awhile it made sense, I just wish it wasn't largely a clip show. Besides, it's how Jerry Seinfeld wanted to end it.

The KARR thing was deliberately left wide open, almost like a cliffhanger, plus the original series never had a proper send off. The Scent of Roses would have been almost perfect for that if it wasn't for NBC deciding it wanted that episode to air during sweeps, leaving those of us who are primarily TOS fans with a POS (VooDoo Knight) as the final episode.

Either way the reason we can be fine with there being a new KITT because it fits in several ways, one being that this KITT is an obvious successor to a project that would be largely considered successful, the acronym also fits perfectly in that way also in showing it's a new (arguably improved) KITT with it standing for Knight Industries Three-Thousand.

KARR(E) on the other hand is the opposite, the original was a disaster due to the mistake his programming for self preservation. You don't name new projects after old ones that have that kind of stigma attached, ever, period. So what's happening? Charles (if this is totally his doing) builds this a new KARR(E) with the same dangerous flaw in the programming? The only thing is that the acronym is something that's clearly only being used to attract people since the original KARR is fairly well known but now it doesn't stand for Knight Automated Roving Robot, no no no, it stands for something more convoluted, Knight Auto-cybernetic Roving Robotic-exoskeleton.

Now there are ways this could easily be explained and make it work in a manner that keeps the original series history intact and it doesn't need the original KARR to be a part of it. This is clearly a military project and the government isn't exactly the brightest bunch sometimes so fine, I could see the military being interested in a AI with self preservation in mind or even it's primary objective being to protect the pilot and other soldiers also but decides its own well being is more important and turns on them. So this new KARR (maybe based on the original) would be put into this military weapon/vehicle with the AI unit alone being called KARR and due to what it's being put into, adds the exoskeleton part to it. The cybernetic thing is fine since I'm still sure that GST picked out that due to KARR in Trust Doesn't Rust saying he needed a cybernetic technician to maintain his systems.

We'll find out in episode 12..... They (GST, the writers) just better not have gone with needlessly ignoring or retconning TOS history and just cherry picking things from it, making a pseudo sequel like the mess that is Superman Returns. If they don't mention or refer to the original KARR then by all means just keep it vague.
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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by JJSoCrazy » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:07 am

Faithful Car KRO wrote:What I dont get is the fact there are 2 KITTs and people can be OK with that, cause it is thought that KI2T's AI is probably still around somewhere. But people cant accept that there can be 2 KARRs.
Why?
Cant the original AI still be out there and KI still built an upgraded model, just like they did with KI3T.
It seems far too trivial to be this upset about a talking computer in a car from the 80s. It's a show. They can do what they want..

I really hope this is a different KARR, because there was already a KARR and I feel that they should just leave the old story where it is and just make a new KARR.
Seinfeld would have been alot better to me if I had never seen the way they closed the story up. If I had just stopped watching I would have been satisified by the first 9 years and not have had the story ruined.
I want them to let the original KARR story just rest and not give us an ending, cause it might let everyone down...


Here is what I don't understand!

WHY THE HELL WOULD GRAIMAN MAKE ANOTHER MISTAKE AND CALL IT KARR? If in fact he did help create/design the original KARR.

Also I believe they shouldn't let the original KARR just rest because at the end of KITT vs KARR his cpu is still intact, so I want to know what happened and I am sure MANY OTHERS will too!

Joe
Last edited by JJSoCrazy on Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by Mango19 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:08 am

PHOENIXZERO wrote: You don't name new projects after old ones that have that kind of stigma attached, ever, period.


You do if they're military projects. The Comanche helicopter has been under development as long as KARR supposedly has and has yet to deliver a successful prototype - and they haven't changed the name no matter how many times the thing has crashed.

If the military is involved, KARR's the project, not the character.

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by JJSoCrazy » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:26 am

Mango19 wrote:
PHOENIXZERO wrote: You don't name new projects after old ones that have that kind of stigma attached, ever, period.


You do if they're military projects. The Comanche helicopter has been under development as long as KARR supposedly has and has yet to deliver a successful prototype - and they haven't changed the name no matter how many times the thing has crashed.

If the military is involved, KARR's the project, not the character.


In terms of PHEONIXZERO's response, it is true they should have something attached.

Also, if it is something different than the original, don't F-ing tease us and call it KARR just because it is a prototype and hoping it is the original one somehow, instead call it something different for example: Megatron Wannabe

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Re: I saw the new KARR

Post by KnightCrusader99 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:53 pm

JJSoCrazy wrote:Here is what I don't understand!

WHY THE HELL WOULD GRAIMAN MAKE ANOTHER MISTAKE AND CALL IT KARR? If in fact he did help create/design the original KARR.

Also I believe they shouldn't let the original KARR just rest because at the end of KITT vs KARR his cpu is still intact, so I want to know what happened and I am sure MANY OTHERS will too!

Joe


I am with you Joe. He is a pretty smart guy, and I don't see him making a huge blunder like this... twice. You'd think after building the first KITT (which was established in the story) that he knew to put the directive for the preservation of human life in each car AI afterwards. Of course, I will concede to the fact that this was a military project and it might have been removed without his blessing to make the car more of a killing machine.

Faithful Car KRO wrote:What I dont get is the fact there are 2 KITTs and people can be OK with that, cause it is thought that KI2T's AI is probably still around somewhere. But people cant accept that there can be 2 KARRs.
Why?
Cant the original AI still be out there and KI still built an upgraded model, just like they did with KI3T.
It seems far too trivial to be this upset about a talking computer in a car from the 80s. It's a show. They can do what they want..


They could have named it anything else in the whole world... but no, they picked to call it KARR. And you have to stretch the acronym to call it KARR though, so they are really trying hard to make a connection. The premise of the story that this is a continuation of the original, with Michael Knight's son at the helm of a new car. I don't like it when they try so hard to make a connection and then decide to pick and choose what they want to keep from the original mythology. They could have either gone with it all or nothing at all. As I stated in my message a few posts back... they have nothing to lose and more to gain from making a connection to the original. I don't know why they can't do it. NBC has all the television rights to the Knight Rider universe, why not use it in its entirety?

Having two KITTs makes logical sense... the first was the Knight Industries Two Thousand, and this one is the Knight Industries Three Thousand... its a logical move in the numbering scheme. However, there is no logical jump from the Knight Industries Roving Robot and Knight Industries Roving Robot-Exoskeleton.... Its the same thing, only in a new form! Us humans have the tendency to not name something new after something that caused problems or failed badly. We don't see new Edsels on the road, or new hurricanes renamed after really bad ones (like Andrew and Karina). Thus, why rename a new project after an old one that was a monumental failure... unless it was the same one as before, just being reused? Back to the KITTs, KI2T was a overwhelming success in AI and engineering, so the new one was named to resemble it, just upping its version number like any piece of new software would.

If there is no connection between this KARR-E and the old KARR, then it is a huge slap to the face to all the fans from the original show. It alienates us as a group while does nothing to the new viewers. Why not make us ALL happy? I like to have a little logical continuity to my shows' plotlines myself...

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