I saw the new KARR

[KnightINSTINCT]

sorry but this KARR has nothing to do with the KARR from the original series. It is not the same CPU, not the same software. It is a completely brand-spanking-new entity.

YAY! OH THANK GOD, YAY!

[KnightINSTINCT]

I think you're missing the point. In this version of Knight Rider, the Trans Am KARR never existed. They are playing with the timeline. Let's not get too hung up on the name, it is what it is. I'm hoping that very soon everyone will be able to see what I saw and nobody will care what the robot is called; they'll just be excited to see a bad-ass villain in an upcoming episode.

Wait, what? Do you know this as fact from the writers/producers of this new series? I don't believe they are ignoring the original KITT or KARR. We already had it said there was Micheal Knight and KI2T. It's safe to assume there is still a prototype from the 80's is not going to be ignored.

[knightriderfan80]

Ok, but lets say the Hoff comes back, with KARR being a focal point, wouldn't you think once Michael Sr. hears KARR, that would ring a bell and he would say something along the lines... "a third time"???? "Oh no"!!! "Son, I twice fought KARR with KI2T... See where the problem arises if you don't link together TOS with the existence of the KARR to the new series???

This is where it just isn't going to be pretty... Even if Hoff doesn't have a regular appearance, just the appearances he does make and even KI2T, there would HAVE to be some sort of mention of the old KARR, because both of them can't forget the battles they had back in the day, and can't hold back from telling Jr. about it.

[KnightINSTINCT]

Two things: The pilot movie that aired in February is NOT canon for the series. Gary Scott Thompson has been absolutely clear about that.

I'm sorry I'm quoting/reply posting everything you say, but you have to remember that this show is not only for us nerds, it's for anybody who has watched the entire series from last February. I believe the only details not "cannon" from the pilot is probably KITT. He's the only thing that has so far changed drastically (besides Mike's tattoo) that I've seen. The background story from what we have been told through on everything thus far has kind of stuck. No, I don't believe the REBOOTS we have seen have ridiculously altered the way we've been told a story. Everything, including KITT's attack mode/transformations can be assumed he experienced upgrades. But besides that, nothing seems that have been purposely forgotten......except Mike's best buddy.

[Michael Pajaro]

Keeping in mind ratings are the real deciding factor, what would you estimate the chances of the show seeing a second season?

I'm not one to give odds but let me give some encouraging perspective: (you could counter-argue most of these points, but I'm giving it a positive spin.)

1. NBC is struggling in the ratings overall. That can be good news for weaker shows, because less is expected of them. If NBC had a bunch of hits, they wouldn't need to keep Knight Rider.

2. Ford has a lot of influence. Assuming the car company still exists in 2 months, they will want Knight Rider to stay on the air. We may hate how much influence they're having on the plotlines, but NBC doesn't want to upset their relationship with Ford.

3. Knight Rider is not a cheap show, but it's typically cheaper to keep a new show on the air than to develop a brand new show. NBC has already knocked off 5 hours from its scripted-programming line-up by bringing Jay Leno into primetime; they may want to keep some more traditional programming in place.

4. NBC and Gary Scott Thompson have a good long-standing relationship. Money talks, but politics often talks louder. GST has been good for NBC in the past, keeping him happy will be a small but non-zero factor.


Now there is one reason why I am MORE optimistic about the show being picked up for season 2 now than I was last week: The fx team told me that NBC publicity is really going out strong to promote the reboot. Let's face it, the promos for "next week on Knight Rider" never look exciting. But if they can take KARR and turn it into "event programming", then they have a shot.

It's going to be a tough climb but they (we) still have a few strong cards to play.

[Skav]

Ok so...

1. Karr is not the same Karr from TOS

2. KARR is part time Mustang, part time robot...in other words, he transforms

3. The show doesn't acknowledge the original KARR. Boo.

I remember a post on this forum saying that it seemed we were getting references to TOS but without any substance to them and that poster seemed to be right.

I can see why the show is a bit of a mess, one minute they say it is a sequel to the original series and then they go all out to ignore MAJOR elements from TOS. Not only that, it seems they are playing with the minds of the fans of the original show.

[Faithful Car KRO]

The thing is...look at Smallville. In the begining it looked like it was just going to be a prequel to the Superman storyline...then look, they jumped off into its own little tangent. Why cant KR08?

[PHOENIXZERO]

Smallville was always meant to be its own continuity with a story focusing on Clark in High School and explore the story of Clark before he grew up to be Superman. Though due to the show being drawn out much longer than originally intended has caused them to drag out things to the point where Clark can never convincingly be Superman for a host of reasons. But it was never meant to tie into any movies, the comics or anything but Smallville, it's its own self contained universe and it has never been sold to be anything else but that. It's an "else world" and has always meant to be so and was never sold to be anything but.

Smallville has nothing to do in relation with this series which people involved have gone on record, multiple times in calling it a continuation of the original with the son of Michael Knight.

[trissybabes]

Well, this KARR looks and sounds kick-ass cool!

I can't wait to see it and I don't care if you disagree.

The only way the series stands ANY chance of renewal is bums on seats. Sounds like the execs have seen the light to give the fans something more akin to what they want and hopefully this means it'll get to season 2.

I just still have horrible memories of execs trying to call the shots on "Airwolf" for it's second season. It got WAY diluted from it's core premise in season 1 and slowly lead to it's cancellation.

Let's hope it swings the other way this time, as I have a horrible feelig that the suits in their boots at NBC misjudged KR08 from the start - (just like they did with TKR) but that they are finally listening to the audiences (unlike 25 years ago) and hopefully giving them more of what they want.

[nee716]

Hey everyone! First off I want to thank neps, sue, mpajaro etc for our up to the minute KR info. I look forward to coming into work and reading the boards! AWESOME WORK GUYS! I can't wait to meet everyone in vegas (whomever can make it of course).

My 2 cents about KARR. From what I have been reading. I think this will either make or break the series. Which I am sure is why we are having KITT vs. KARR for the final few episodes of the season. NBC will see the ratings ending on a high note and bring the show back. Yes NBC is having trouble keeping shows a float. I think the only thing left on NBC is Knight Rider, Heroes, both Law & Orders and ER (which is ending this season anyway). Look they were not going to give Leno anything after the tonight show and look what happened. He will have a Prime Time show. I have faith!

I keep the KR "marketing" alive. On my dual monitors @ work I have weezls KITT scanner on screen and the other a marquee stating to watch KR on NBC Wednesdays @ 8PM.

[goldbug]

Interestingly, my first reaction to nu-KARR not being TOS KARR was a rather standard "that sucks, it doesn't make any sense etc. etc." However, giving it more thought, I think I can live with this. In the TKR universe, we got KRO, and while his story was different than TOS KARR's, it was still the premise of "We made a screwed up AI...again, whoops." So it's not as if we don't have a precedent for an episode involving a second killer car that had nothing to do with the first.

Being a Transformers fan, I'm excited to see how this is played out visually. While it seems to offend some people for whatever reason, I'm loving the fact that fx that were far too expensive for TV a scant two or so years ago can now be worked into a show like KR. It's the same thrill I get from seeing the "morph" effect from "Terminator" being used for TSCC even though it was once too expensive/complicated for TV.

[Mango19]

First of all, I don't think you're going to get a lot of exposition in the show about how this KARR relates to the timeline of TOS - kind of like why Klingons all of a sudden look different (how long did it take to finally address that? 30 years?)

Let me submit this: "KARR" is a military project, not a single robot (or car). Like the Osprey, the Knight Automated Roving Robot has been under development by the Pentagon and Knight Industries off and on for 25 years. And, like the Osprey, there have been numerous design changes and set-backs (the Osprey had a high body count too in its experimental phase). But the project continued, and they didn't change the name.

This KARR is the latest prototype from this project. While the first appeared in TOS, we have no idea if the current version is the second KARR, or the fifteenth or twentieth.

My theory is Graimen was brought back in to work on the latest KARR in exchange for funding his resurrection of the Knight Rider project and building the KI3T.

See? All explained - although it will never make it into a script. That work for everyone?

[KRAvengerII]

Two things: The pilot movie that aired in February is NOT canon for the series. Gary Scott Thompson has been absolutely clear about that.

And even though the new series DOES acknowledge that there was an original KITT that was a Trans Am, that does NOT automatically mean they acknowledge a Trans Am version of KARR. There is nothing we've seen or heard in the series or in speaking with cast and crew that suggests this KARR is the same character. And the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly says that it is a brand new character unrelated to the Trans Am.

We can go back and forth forever on this; we'll know for sure in a little over the month. But from my perspective it doesn't really matter whether or not this is the same character. I'm just excited that it looks like they're raising the stakes and bringing some big action to the show.

"not canon" for the series. Huh. Now I REALLY wanna know how Mike and Sarah came on board.

[DevonStyles]

If they only would have put this much TIME and EFFORT from the get go we could very well have the number one show on tv on wednesday nights... with no threat on cancelation. If it don't work then rip knight rider

[cajunknight0153]

any pics of the new KARR?

[Lost Knight]

I think you're missing the point. In this version of Knight Rider, the Trans Am KARR never existed. They are playing with the timeline. Let's not get too hung up on the name, it is what it is. I'm hoping that very soon everyone will be able to see what I saw and nobody will care what the robot is called; they'll just be excited to see a bad-ass villain in an upcoming episode.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. As others have already pointed out, this seems like the writers are changing the game to suit their own needs and more or less doing what they want. I knew all along that the series was only 'loosely' based on the backdoor pilot, so any facts established in it were potentially subject to change. And so far nothing I've seen has even really contradicted the pilot; it's only just mostly ignored it which is fine. And ignoring Knight Rider 2000, Team Knight Rider and Knight Rider 2010 is fine, too, which in those cases I would agree is probably the smartest thing to do.

But as for this "sequel" series now messing around with the timeline if it's true is just plain irresponsible and wrong. The writers need to pick a direction and stick with it, not just change things around because no one wanted to pay close enough attention to the original series' mythology. It isn't that difficult and there weren't all that many story arcs in the original series, especially regarding K.A.R.R. who was only in two episodes. They want to make it a sequel? Connect the mythology or just ignore it but without contradicting previously established canon. They want to do a reimagining? Change things around as much as they want. But you can't do it both ways.

Mike named himself after his father, Michael Knight, and he even acknowledged that his dad's original last name was Michael Long in the first episode. That already establishes this series as a sequel. And now it just doesn't make any sense to simply pick and choose only the elements they want to acknowledge. They can ignore as much as they want and the revisionist history with Graiman building the original K.I.T.T. pushed things far enough, but that's where it should have stopped.

It does seem like this final episode is the best the series has to offer from the sound of things, and I am still looking forward to it. But it really isn't that damn hard to still do things a new way while at the same time connecting the dots, so to speak. OK, I feel better getting out that rant now...

[Kram061-1]

I am honestly beginning not to care any longer .

[JJSoCrazy]

Ok this is unreal. How can they introduce KARR and from what I am reading it is not the same from TOS. Why would Graiman make the same mistake Wilton Knight did back in TOS with KARR? I remember KI3T stating his "original prototype" so that gives me hope and the fact that on Knight Writers it states that Charles connection with the original will be seen in upcoming episodes and that are they continuing the story of KITT vs KARR and GST stated "KARR has not been forgot ton." So well see what happens. I assume we will have to wait for this episode on New Years Eve to see what KARR really is about because Ryan Arrow is supposed to be on this episode.

Little Side Note: Will they eventually mention Graiman building KI2T and the days with DH? I wonder if KI3T knows about KI2T, according to the pilot I would say yes since they were in the same garage. However I remember GST stating if they bring KI2T that is when he will pickup from the pilot...makes sense.

Joe

[DevonStyles]

I think you really have to look at it like this.

The majority of people watching this new knight rider probally have no idea what the original KARR even was. So they can do whatever they want with the Karr mythology and it will be new and hopefully exciting.

Vast majority = Many new faces to Knight rider who are not that familiar with the original show.
Middle Majority = vaguely rememvber knight rider as a show of the 80's and have a vague rememberance of Karr as the evil twin of Kitt.
Low majority = People who knows just about everthing about knight rider who collect toys and post on Knight rider online.... lol that's us.

[ElectricPhantom]

Hello all.

I have been lurking this site for ages now but I have yet to register and join in on the rhetoric- until now, of course.

I couldn't help but give my brief two-cents on this topic.

Personally, I still have faith that the writers are going to stay true to the original plot. They haven't said or done anything in the actual series that contradicts the original- we've only HEARD things outside of the show, gossip if you will (and some of it seems to be exaggerated). I would hope that the writers, directors, and producers would have enough literary know-how to not butcher a plot-line that they have already determined to follow.

My opinion (and to be honest, my hope): This either IS the original KARR we all know and love (or hate) or it is some form of him (perhaps reformatted by whomever found him in the desert). My reason for this belief? Aside from my faith in those on set, Dr. Graiman states during the Halloween episode that he "doesn't want ANOTHER KARR". Why in the world would they take the time to suspend dialogue and create a brief dramatic pause immediately after, emphasizing, that statement if it meant nothing? It tends to rebuttal the argument that the original KARR never existed.

Although some desire this to be a KARR all his own, I truly hope this is the original/connected to the original. It just simply wouldn't make sense if that isn't the case, as far as continuity is concerned at least.

Regardless, I'm psyched for January 7th (even if it is a completely new KARR) and the possible previews this weekend. I might just the Television on football this weekend so I may catch a sneak peak... And I hate football with a conflagration.

[pheonix_knight]

Just a thought but if the new KARR is Ki3t's prototype, does this mean that Ki3t can also go 'Transformers' style in to a more 'robotic looking AI'....????

[dag268]

karr-threat.jpg

Still reminds me of robo cop 2

[Skav]

I think you're missing the point. In this version of Knight Rider, the Trans Am KARR never existed. They are playing with the timeline. Let's not get too hung up on the name, it is what it is. I'm hoping that very soon everyone will be able to see what I saw and nobody will care what the robot is called; they'll just be excited to see a bad-ass villain in an upcoming episode.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. As others have already pointed out, this seems like the writers are changing the game to suit their own needs and more or less doing what they want. I knew all along that the series was only 'loosely' based on the backdoor pilot, so any facts established in it were potentially subject to change. And so far nothing I've seen has even really contradicted the pilot; it's only just mostly ignored it which is fine. And ignoring Knight Rider 2000, Team Knight Rider and Knight Rider 2010 is fine, too, which in those cases I would agree is probably the smartest thing to do.

But as for this "sequel" series now messing around with the timeline if it's true is just plain irresponsible and wrong. The writers need to pick a direction and stick with it, not just change things around because no one wanted to pay close enough attention to the original series' mythology. It isn't that difficult and there weren't all that many story arcs in the original series, especially regarding K.A.R.R. who was only in two episodes. They want to make it a sequel? Connect the mythology or just ignore it but without contradicting previously established canon. They want to do a reimagining? Change things around as much as they want. But you can't do it both ways.

Mike named himself after his father, Michael Knight, and he even acknowledged that his dad's original last name was Michael Long in the first episode. That already establishes this series as a sequel. And now it just doesn't make any sense to simply pick and choose only the elements they want to acknowledge. They can ignore as much as they want and the revisionist history with Graiman building the original K.I.T.T. pushed things far enough, but that's where it should have stopped.

It does seem like this final episode is the best the series has to offer from the sound of things, and I am still looking forward to it. But it really isn't that damn hard to still do things a new way while at the same time connecting the dots, so to speak. OK, I feel better getting out that rant now...

There we go. And if others want us to stop complaining then they better start doing things right and stop changing the rules when it suits them.

[Knight4life]

I don't have any high hopes from this series,they have rebooted KR 2008 for the third time.I am amazed that so far they haven't understood what should be done in order to drive the series in a correct direction.It's so weird they are basically re-inventing it and calling it a sequel at the same time.We'll just wait and see,maybe this is the KR for today's F&F and Transformers generation and not for us.

[WIBoomer1]

When Graiman said that he "did not want another KARR", he was talking about KI3T becoming like KARR-e, with no reference to the 82 KARR at all. Knowing now what Michael P. said about this KARR being a completely new vehicle, with no connection to KI2T, then this is obviously true.

BUT, I am disappointed in this turn. But it is the writers prerogative. They could have named this vehicle something/anything different, but I'm guessing it keeps in the re visioning of Knight Industries as a weapons designer, by naming it as they did.

I can't call this thing KARR, because you can't get a chicken without laying eggs (PLEASE DIRECT ME TO THE NEAREST CHICKEN!). You need KARR to get to KITT, and you needed KITT to get to KI3T. To say you needed another KARR to get to KI3T, that's nuts. By admitting this is flawed logic, you could also say there was no KI2T, and therefore, no MK sr....which would mean no MK jr. I could keep going, but you get the point.

Mike and Sue, I'm sure what you saw was cool, but it's not what were promised. GST saying that KARR was not forgotten, he could have never been forgotten, because he never existed to be forgotten in the first place.

I need to call Doc Brown and get the DeLorean out for a little road trip, so I can talk to GST and the writers before they write this fiasco, and set them straight...