Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by Stealthwalker » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:20 pm

This episode was alright......
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:31 pm

Still compared to last week's episode I thought it was much better, but over all it was rather lacking also. Billy's side story was more interesting than the weak Heist/Oceans 11/Zodiac 12 plot. Watching KITT drive through the wall again the wall was basically balsa or some other light wood and insulation. Still, at least they finally did it, now if only it was shot better..
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by NeoRanger » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:50 pm

Watching KITT drive through the wall again the wall was basically balsa or some other light wood and insulation.

I... probably misinterpreted that, but... you didn't just suggest they should crash a ridiculously expensive car on an actual wall, did you?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:40 pm

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the fact that it looked like a fake wall
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:03 pm

EDIT: Damn, I should have refreshed but anyway, yeah it just looked fake. Now back to my already written post.

Of course not and they didn't use that car anyway since it was in "Attack Mode" which are just GTs that are dressed up with those things they've nailed on it and the blower. The thing is that it didn't look at all like a real wall when I actually paid attention to the debris, it's something you could easily put your fist through with absolutely no illusion of durability or thickness, hell if they used some cheap aluminum it would have looked better.. Granted the original series had spots where they'd drive through garage doors and stuff like that, which was probably cheap, low grade aluminum if not something cheaper and weaker as well as some done with wood which was fine since they still at least looked real, but they did plenty of faux concrete walls as well and they also at least looked real from what I remember, I wonder if there's a montage of KITT driving through walls and whatever else out there.

It looked like that scene was in a air plane hanger, are they made out of cheap, thin wood and I think some cardboard with a bit of insulation? Maybe it wasn't meant to be a hanger, I don't know but looking at the scene again it looks like it also might have been shot entirely indoors with there not being anything that looked like the actual outside in the hole that was left, they probably just put that up on the set..

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they finally did crash through something but it could have been done and looked much better. Hopefully when they do it again, it will.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by KamenRider » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:01 pm

Hrrm. To be honest this has kinda been the worst episode so far. Not really because of anything plot related but I think they just went really overboard on the sex humor and party shots. I mean this stuff can be fun and there was that element in the original series. Michael Knight was nothing if not a ladies man.

..but sometimes this show tries a little too hard with it and it makes the creators seem desperate. "Come on lookit! We gots a show with SEX"! I mean really look at this for a second. Graiman scoring? Seriously? What does that give to the show? Especially when you already have a sub-plot with Billy where he's making out with a hot blond? ..and in another part of the episode they more than established there was hot women at the pool with the first few shots of that scene.

I'm not saying totally take it all out, I enjoy hot women as much as the next hetero guy. Zoe in her Heroes cheerleader outfit on the Halloween ep was definately a treat. (a moment to reflect...ok I'm back.) I realize they wanted to capture the whole Vegas vibe this episode to but they may want to consider toning it down just a bit. Because right now it's getting more than a little silly even for a show with a talking car.

Speaking of KITT and to end this post on a positive note, KITT crashing through the wall was total win.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by _K3000_ » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:16 pm

The scene i like the most is the part with billy and the girl he met that scene was pure awesome cause for once hes not being lied to by some idiotic girl (Zoe) and actually found someone who likes him. Honestly this episode by far next to Knight Of The Hunter was awesome!
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by Vegasmike » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:48 pm

knightriderfan80 wrote:
Vegasmike wrote: what ever it was that rolled into the casino.



It looks like that Scion "Toaster on Wheels"

Ranks one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen, so that means this one is right there with it.



Aah yes the new Ford Toaster :roll: , how could i forget? :wink:
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by FLAGCEO » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:06 pm

Every reincarnation of a show will have its own "personality" so-to-speak. If this one has a lighter side through Billy & Zoe, they better make it good. The sexual heat (it's beyond tension) between Mike and Sarah HAS to come to a close somehow. I would have felt better if Sarah was one of the characters being booted off. YES she's hot, but she and Mike already have too much baggage to let the show move freely on its own. We shouldn't expect this series to be too much like TOS. It has to be its own show with its own "personality." The question is whether us fans will approve of this new personality and stick with it. That remains to be seen. In my opinion, as long as they stay true to the underlying mission of one man and his car taking on those who operate above the law, instead of this super-spy defense department crap, the show will prosper in its new form.

Keep in mind that the underlying plot of the first six episodes had to do with terrorists, ultra-advanced weapons, anarchists, etc. Mike and KITT were domestic spies rather than a man and his car fighting crime. There has been an obvious shift, which I think is making the show 100% better in terms of the plot - we're not worrying about some guys stealing advanced KI missles trying to blow up a nuclear power plant or a dam. Rather we're foiling casino robberies, stopping would-be amateur terrorists driving around like bonnie and clyde.

This episode finally had a better sense of purpose. The Billy plot line was completely superflous, but a welcome comic relief. I see Billy's role as just that - the lighter side to KR. I agree that the writing needs a LOT of work.

The upcoming Knight Fever is apparently about a world-wide computer virus that Mike and KITT have to stop. I doubt we'll see much in the way of car chases, crashing through walls, or turbo boosting. Considering how easy it apparently is to hack into KITT, I assume KITT is going to be pretty useless in that episode, so be prepared.

Hopefully the "reboot" will bring the plot back in line with the mission of the original series, but they have to deal with the high school-ish mentality of sex and relationships that seems to pervade the impermeable KITT Kave. If I had to pick the absolute worst episode thus far - it would be Knight of the Living Dead (halloween episode). KITT was in a C130 the entire time. So what if Zoe was wearing a cheerleader outfit... the episode was less about KITT and Mike than it was about other potential plot lines - like KARR (by the way, if you freeze the frame where Mike asks KITT if he has a picture of KARR, you see the first frame has a schematic of a MUSTANG, which then changes to other forms).
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:10 pm

Really? In regards to Knight of the Living Dead, I thought that was the perfect example of how an actionless episode can be good. I'm not sure why you think it was less about KITT and Mike, I think this episode explored that more than any other episode yet. KITT was hurt and distrustful of both Charles and Sarah by the that point. Mike was the only person he was willing to trust. It was only on Mike's reassurance that KITT allowed the download of his files. Sarah might have said "All your favorite memories are about us," but they were all about Mike for the most part. In terms of KITT and Mike interaction, that was the most touching moment thus far.

These past two weeks have been perfect examples of how an actionless episode can be awfully disappointing. ESPECIALLY Rock and Roll All Knight. That episode was about two freelance criminals in a hot car. It had car chase written all over it, and yet there was scarcely anything of the sort. This past week, there was slightly less opportunity for car chases, but still the main plot was all but abandoned for the "welcome comic relief."

I think the best episode was the Hard Day's Knight one. That one had a plot and stuck to it. It had more than one car chase and a REAL one at the end. The second episode was also very good in terms of balancing plot, and it had a Turbo Boost, but the chases were fake and not too exciting.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by KRAvengerII » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:16 pm

Frankly, i think the climax of "a Hard day's knight' was overdone. they threw every contrivance they could into that one.
KITT: I walked right into that one, didn't I?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:41 pm

While I'm not exactly sure what that means, even if they did, the chase was REAL, minimal green screen, actually driving the car in choreographed maneuvers. And ripping out the rear axle was sweet (and, did I mention real!).
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by KRAvengerII » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:54 pm

I mean, let's have Michael at death's door, shooting at KITT with bullets that affect his nano skin, then drop the antidote and have sarah scoop up the drops in her shirt to make a cure. you don't think that was a bit over the top?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:42 pm

I certainly prefer it to a green-screened chase (and by chase I mean people from the SSC talk to him while we hear stock engine revving noises) which ultimately ends up with KITT not being fast enough anyway.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by Amir » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:20 am

Oh my, just seen it and I think it was probably the worst episode yet. It just wasn't interesting - as someone pointed out, the Billy thing was more interesting than the mission itself; there was very little action, very little KITT, the Charles sex life story was pointless, and the whole thing just felt juvenile, especially with the last few moments with everyone sitting around making bad jokes like 15 year olds.

A couple of days ago, on a different thread, I said KR08 is much closer to Knight Rider than TKR. This episode was as far as can be.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by KRShelby » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:38 am

cloudkitt wrote:Really? In regards to Knight of the Living Dead, I thought that was the perfect example of how an actionless episode can be good. I'm not sure why you think it was less about KITT and Mike, I think this episode explored that more than any other episode yet. KITT was hurt and distrustful of both Charles and Sarah by the that point. Mike was the only person he was willing to trust. It was only on Mike's reassurance that KITT allowed the download of his files. Sarah might have said "All your favorite memories are about us," but they were all about Mike for the most part. In terms of KITT and Mike interaction, that was the most touching moment thus far.


I guess slihgtly off topic but have to agree with you on this one.

We see much more bonding between Mike and KITT. I think KITT does trust sarah as well though, mainly because Mike still trusted her.

Even in Knight of the Zodiac though, while the episode was decent and wasn't one of my favourites, we do still get to see ONE line (lol), on KITT and Mike's relationship where I think Kitt said something like "I missed you Michael"

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by Amir » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:51 am

KRShelby wrote:Even in Knight of the Zodiac though, while the episode was decent and wasn't one of my favourites, we do still get to see ONE line (lol), on KITT and Mike's relationship where I think Kitt said something like "I missed you Michael"


Well, that's exactly my problem with it. The bonding is fine, it should be like that, but that line was completly forced. Like the writers are saying: 'Now we'll show you how great the bond between them is!', and shoving it into our faces. It should be far more subtle than that. Next episode: Mike wants KITT to marry him, KITT isn't ready to make a commitment, but they still spend the night together.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by KRShelby » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:53 am

Fair enough, you're right thinking back the line in zodiac was a bit out of place. I still think we saw some more genuine Mike/KITT moments in living dead.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:00 pm

KRShelby wrote:Well, that's exactly my problem with it. The bonding is fine, it should be like that, but that line was completly forced. Like the writers are saying: 'Now we'll show you how great the bond between them is!', and shoving it into our faces.


I actually thought the episode had a far better moment between them regarding the valet, "Michael I implore you..." lol Then he confirms everyone's fears about valet parking, haha.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by KRShelby » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:30 pm

cloudkitt wrote:
KRShelby wrote:Well, that's exactly my problem with it. The bonding is fine, it should be like that, but that line was completly forced. Like the writers are saying: 'Now we'll show you how great the bond between them is!', and shoving it into our faces.


I actually thought the episode had a far better moment between them regarding the valet, "Michael I implore you..." lol Then he confirms everyone's fears about valet parking, haha.


Hey I said I really do quite like it...and, I didn't say the quote you quoted me as :P. the other poster Amir said the quote haha.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:40 pm

Yeah I hit post and it had two quote tags and I couldn't remember which set to edit out, sorry. :P
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by Knight2000 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:28 am

Amir wrote:
KRShelby wrote:Even in Knight of the Zodiac though, while the episode was decent and wasn't one of my favourites, we do still get to see ONE line (lol), on KITT and Mike's relationship where I think Kitt said something like "I missed you Michael"

Well, that's exactly my problem with it. The bonding is fine, it should be like that, but that line was completly forced.



That peeved me off. They've done it in previous episodes like "Poision" where Mike says KI3T's the best soldier he's ever known. I would have expected this level of bonding at least after the first season. I've even said the Poison ep should have been near the end of say season 2 (if they ever make it that far).

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:23 am

True, there's nothing natural in this, even with the original series where there was little continuity, KITT at least in the pilot/Knight of the Phoenix had some actual development. It's almost like the writers wrote scripts on their own with no brainstorming of ideas or even consideration for any sort of continuity or outline of where each episode would go with certain things. I know it was meant that way so people could jump in without being lost, but with how mixed up things got with episodes getting shifted around I think it make it even worse with there being no consistency. Just a few basics and off you go seems to be how these were written, at least in some way.

I do agree that A Hard Days Knight shouldn't have been an initial 13 or even first season episode since at the point that it aired (and still) there wasn't nearly enough of an emotional investment into the characters where one would care either way as to what happens to them. Same deal with KITT having so many problems already. It really killed the idea of this KITT being unstoppable like the original where when KITT was damaged it meant something.

Eh, whatever, the car is nothing but a glorified prop at this point.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by NeoRanger » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:24 pm

LoL @ us bitching constantly about Mike and KITT not bonding and in retrospect bitching for bonding sooner than we wanted.

Maybe during the first tantrum we should have mentioned that we want it to *eventually* happen, instead of crying that it's not there?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread - Knight of the Zodiac

Post by cloudkitt » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:41 pm

I'm with Neo here, while that one line may have been forced, I haven't felt any problems with Mike and KITT bonding. I liked Mike not wanting to leave KITT in the MI6 one, etc.

And seriously, while Michael and KITT did get more friendly as the show progressed, it wasn't the brilliant expontential progression you guys were making it sound like. In Knight of the Phoenix they took awhile before they confessed to 'caring', but by episode 2 they were buddy-buddy. I can't remember which episode, but they had their first really heartwarming line pretty early on. I think it was when Michael said KITT's better than any of the police partners he had and KITT says "While I can't say the same thing about you, I calculate odds of my being paired with a more compatible person than yourself as being more than 1000 to 1" or something to that effect.

I will agree with Phoenixzero though that they've damaged KITT too many times too soon. Even in the pilot he was hacked into. In KOTP, Michael was the only one in danger, KITT was completely unharmed the whole episode. Enforcing the idea of the invincible car. I think the first time KITT took any noticeable damage was Goliath. And really all that happened to his shell was the corner of his hood had been bent (and the computer damaged), and that was a huge deal as it was the most damage we'd seen KITT take.
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