Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Rockatteer » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:40 am

Xebec wrote:* What kind of idiot employer gives a drug to his assassin that a) makes him hallucinate and appear under the influence, and b) makes him tell the TRUTH!! ?? Not only is that likely to make him botch the job, but it could make him give the employer or himself away. Ridiculous.

* Once Michael was poisoned, why did they send him to do the assassination? There was no need for him to be the one. Anyone could have done it. It wasn't even a difficult task. They had the coat ticket and the location. The FBI lady could have done it -- and better. They knew Michael was disfunctional, which would likely result in a botched mission, but they sent him, anyway. Ridiculous.


Very good points. :lol:
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by MrPayner » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:46 am

Everyone is bringing fantastic points to the thread.

One thing I am finding that no one else has mentioned however, is the development of KITT's personality. I felt in this episode that he's opening up more, starting to develop his colloquial vocabulary. He was a little impersonal with Michael saying "in 2 mins you will be dead", but he's telling it as he see's it. I chuckled at the "I got that" from KITT though.

The coming episodes will hopefully see his personality develop further. Just remember, in TOS KITT was also very impersonal in those early episodes.

This is so far my favourite episode. It was the right balance of everything really.

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by LeslieGruffod » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:03 pm

Rockatteer wrote:
Xebec wrote:* What kind of idiot employer gives a drug to his assassin that a) makes him hallucinate and appear under the influence, and b) makes him tell the TRUTH!! ?? Not only is that likely to make him botch the job, but it could make him give the employer or himself away. Ridiculous.

* Once Michael was poisoned, why did they send him to do the assassination? There was no need for him to be the one. Anyone could have done it. It wasn't even a difficult task. They had the coat ticket and the location. The FBI lady could have done it -- and better. They knew Michael was disfunctional, which would likely result in a botched mission, but they sent him, anyway. Ridiculous.


Very good points. :lol:


I second that :good:

It was something I was thinking watching the episode: What good is an assassin who can't function properly? Then again, if I want more realistic plots, I'll watch some crappy teen drama..... :lol:

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Knight-Armen » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:08 pm

* What kind of idiot employer gives a drug to his assassin that a) makes him hallucinate and appear under the influence, and b) makes him tell the TRUTH!! ?? Not only is that likely to make him botch the job, but it could make him give the employer or himself away. Ridiculous.

* Once Michael was poisoned, why did they send him to do the assassination? There was no need for him to be the one. Anyone could have done it. It wasn't even a difficult task. They had the coat ticket and the location. The FBI lady could have done it -- and better. They knew Michael was disfunctional, which would likely result in a botched mission, but they sent him, anyway. Ridiculous.


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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Trendane » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:09 pm

MrPayner wrote:One thing I am finding that no one else has mentioned however, is the development of KITT's personality. I felt in this episode that he's opening up more, starting to develop his colloquial vocabulary. He was a little impersonal with Michael saying "in 2 mins you will be dead", but he's telling it as he see's it. I chuckled at the "I got that" from KITT though.


One of the only reasons I didn't mention it is because I see it happening all the time. I particularly liked KITT saying "I got this" right after Zoe did. It gave a sense of a child impersonating what he hears grown-ups saying in an attempt to seem more mature. And Michael saying "Cute" to him afterwards. I thought it was very fitting that it be done that way.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Rockatteer » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:08 pm

I wonder if Part of the reason Kitt seems impersonal at the moment has anything to do with Val Kilmar's inexperience with voice work?

I don't know how much voice work he's done, but I would say voice acting is a little different to physical acting. Maybe he's on a learning curve as well. Which I suppose could beg the question why didn't they hire an experienced voice actor in the first place.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Trendane » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:21 pm

Rockatteer wrote:I wonder if Part of the reason Kitt seems impersonal at the moment has anything to do with Val Kilmar's inexperience with voice work?


Knowing what I do of him...he's making the voice that way on purpose. He does extensive research into the roles he is going to play well before he takes them on. I've no doubt that he worked it out with the directors and writers that KITT is still a very young AI (as was established in the 2-hour pilot) and, as such should be in a continual state of grouth.

The original KITT had months to learn new things while Michael was recovering from his facial reconstruction (unless they used some sooper seekrit healing stuff I've forgotten about). KI3T was still in the garage....and not all testing had been completed yet.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:46 pm

I think KITT was actived well before Michael was even shot since it was established that KITT was originally a part of a Washington D.C. Mainframe before Wilton saw him more fitting to be the brains of the Knight 2000.

This isn't Val's first time doing voice acting, I know he's done at least one animated movie, called the Prince of Egypt and looking at his IMDB info it looks like he did some voice work for another movie that hasn't been released yet..
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Milkman » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:47 pm

So, I am a little late to the show, because for some reason my DVR didn't record the episode. But now I am here. A lot of my comments will probably echo most of the other fans here.

  • So last week I posted how there wasn't enough Mike and KITT. I still believe that to be true, but it is getting better.
  • I was surprised that only one person in this thread mentioned the "Asian Sensation" comment. I thought that was rather funny, and Billy's reaction was as well.
  • I have never been much for the transformations (reminiscent of VIPER). I was able to enjoy Attack mode with no problem, BUT I thought the van was way over the top (I am talking WAY OVER). However, I must admit that I did really enjoy the police car, and the fact that they used the laptop screen for KITT.
  • KITT showed concern for Mike in this episode which I really enjoyed. When he pulled over, and Sarah was getting out of her car, he told her to "please hurry". Also, when KITT was driving in the garage, the driving showed a real sense of urgency on the part of KITT.
  • KITT had quite a few small humorous lines that I sincerely enjoyed in this episode. His personality is starting to develop which is GREAT to see.
  • I agree with a lot of the other comments from the fans about there being too much SSC, etc. This needs to be much much more about Mike and KITT.

Overall I really REALLY enjoyed this episode and look forward to the next ones! :)

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by pheonix_knight » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:23 pm

Something I REALLY liked and it was only a couple of seconds of screen time, was when Kitt was in Van mode and Mike and the other guy were in the back, we got a shot of the 'brake pedal' going down as controlled by Kitt. That was something I always liked in TOS. Certainly wouldnt complain if that kind of detail were shown again when Kitt is driving....

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by cloudkitt » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:45 pm

PHOENIXZERO wrote:I think KITT was actived well before Michael was even shot since it was established that KITT was originally a part of a Washington D.C. Mainframe before Wilton saw him more fitting to be the brains of the Knight 2000.


Really?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Rockatteer » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:05 am

PHOENIXZERO wrote:I think KITT was actived well before Michael was even shot since it was established that KITT was originally a part of a Washington D.C. Mainframe before Wilton saw him more fitting to be the brains of the Knight 2000.

When was that established?
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:56 am

If I remember correctly, Devon mentioned it in either the first or second part of Goliath Returns.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Faithful Car KRO » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:06 am

PHOENIXZERO wrote:If I remember correctly, Devon mentioned it in either the first or second part of Goliath Returns.


to quote wikipedia...
History

In the television show's history, KITT was said to have been designed by the late Wilton Knight, a brilliant but eccentric billionaire and founder of the Foundation for Law and Government (FLAG), and its parent Knight Industries.

KITT's main cybernetic processor was first installed in a mainframe computer used by the United States government in Washington D.C..[1] However, Wilton saw better use for "him" in the Foundation's crime-fighting crusade and eventually the system was installed in the vehicle. KITT was in fact the second vehicle built by Knight Industries with artificial intelligence. His predecessor was KARR, the Knight Automated Roving Robot. KARR was programmed for self-preservation, but this proved to be dangerous to the Foundation's interests. KARR was later deactivated and placed in storage while KITT was given to his new operator, Michael Knight (the new identity of Michael Long).
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Sue » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:42 am

Yes it was season two, Goliath Returns. At time code 15:28
KITT is heard saying, “Actually I first went online in a mainframe in Washington. But the government bureaucracy never suited me, too stuffy.”
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by goldbug » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:46 pm

Rockatteer wrote:I wonder if Part of the reason Kitt seems impersonal at the moment has anything to do with Val Kilmar's inexperience with voice work?

The only VO work I've seen VK do is in "The Prince of Egypt". His work in that movie showed he could emote very well in a VO situation, so I'm sure his portrayal of KITT as rather dispassionate is quite intentional.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by pheonix_knight » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:21 pm

Xebec wrote:* Once Michael was poisoned, why did they send him to do the assassination? There was no need for him to be the one. Anyone could have done it. It wasn't even a difficult task. They had the coat ticket and the location. The FBI lady could have done it -- and better. They knew Michael was disfunctional, which would likely result in a botched mission, but they sent him, anyway. Ridiculous.


The only way Mike would have any chance of recieving the antidote was to 'complete' the mission, which was why they poisoned him in the first place to ensure the assasination took place...

It made perfect evil genius sense...

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Trendane » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:10 pm

One of the things I find equally interesting is when Walton Ash poisoned Michael, he stated that he was not a man to leave loose ends. He also made a point of having a sense of trust. In light of these facts, it makes sense that he had every intention of giving Michael the antidote. A corpse would've been a loose end to have to clean up....and if Michael proved to be as good as they'd been told, they might have use for him again later. Not to mention that, if it were to get out that Mr. Ash has a habit of stabbing his employees in the back (with tiny needles), people would eventually stop doing 'business' with him.
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Knight94 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Let's see, here. Someone poisons you, then shows you the antidote that saves you. You only get the antidote
when you deliver the pkg. Looks like you definitely have a reason to get it done. No, I wouldn't like that kinda
ultimatum either, but I gotta admit I'd do my dangdest to git 'r done. I would wanna jack that sucker's jaw,
though. Wouldn't you?

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by _K3000_ » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:42 pm

F U C K I swear man so many people are hating on the show! If you don't like it than stop watching! I like the transformations i like the characters and finally in this episode KITT showed some weakness and also came to mikes rescue and OMG the grappiling hook is back :) all that Overall this episode i rate it 100/100.

To all KR 08 haters i once again say don't watch it if you hate it! :kitt2: and ps sorry for swearing in the beginning im just very mad today LOL
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by 99 Trans am » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:07 pm

Aren't you suppose to give him just enough poison to actually accomplish the mission? The guy was sick right away. Of course none of the geniuses could find an antidote. I still hate the transformations,if they would have left the car alone I would like the show a lot more. Attack mode is just the fast and the furious director being over the top. That mustang front end shaped like a brick wall isn't doing 300 MPH,simple physics..I bet the original KITT could get a lot closer.. Trans am! On the main page of this site with the 2 cars side by side,I beginning to think the old KITT looks more futuristic on the outside..I don't like the new scanner on the Stang either..Wow,I'm cynical..lol :mrgreen:

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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:15 pm

Sue wrote:Yes it was season two, Goliath Returns. At time code 15:28
KITT is heard saying, “Actually I first went online in a mainframe in Washington. But the government bureaucracy never suited me, too stuffy.”



Ahh right, KITT said it, for some reason I seem to always recall it being Devon bringing it up. *shrugs*
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Re: Live Discussion Thread: A Hard Day's Knight

Post by Charlie Brown » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:16 pm

Xebec wrote:*What kind of idiot employer gives a drug to his assassin that a) makes him hallucinate and appear under the influence, and b) makes him tell the TRUTH!! ?? Not only is that likely to make him botch the job, but it could make him give the employer or himself away. Ridiculous.

...

*Once Michael was poisoned, why did they send him to do the assassination? There was no need for him to be the one. Anyone could have done it. It wasn't even a difficult task. They had the coat ticket and the location. The FBI lady could have done it -- and better. They knew Michael was disfunctional, which would likely result in a botched mission, but they sent him, anyway. Ridiculous.


Mike was NOT the intended assassin. Mike's only task was to deliver the briefcase to the true assassin, the woman in the Eclipse. This is why the coat check ticket got Mike a purse at the reception desk at the convention. Mike took on the role of assassin since the woman got killed in the accident.

The truth serum in the poison I attribute to the Rule of Funny. I also handwave any potential mission compromising since Mike's hallucinations would make him seem crazy, and thus hard to believe by the general public, anyway.

Xebec does have a valid point with sending in Mike as the assassin in his condition. Carrie should've gone. BUT I will go out on a limb and assume that being on the field vs. staying in the KITTCave would've given Mike and KITT a faster chance of finding Axe and the antidote.

EDIT! I thought about it further, and realized Carrie can't do any of the Foundation's work, as she is an FBI Agent. She can't compromise her identity! That would mean the only alternative agent that could've done the assassination was Sarah (from what the series has shown us, neither Zoe or Billy have weapons training)...and we know how Mike feels about Sarah being a field agent.

Ooh! Second point! As Mike stated, the assassination wasn't the challenge of the mission: the escape was. Another reason for him to be protective over Sarah and take the mission on himself.


Xebec wrote:*At the end, the employer believes the hit was a success. He runs away and clearly has no intention of providing the antidote. So, why did he bother transferring $10,000,000 to the assassin's oversees account? Ridiculous.


Of course he had no intention of getting Mike the antidote. Dead men tell no tales.

As for the money...if I valued my life, I wouldn't cheat an ASSASSIN out of money.


Xebec wrote:*And, on a minor point, the relationship between Michael and Sara borders on completely silly. She says they can't be together. That part of their lives are over. We know she still cares for him, but if she's decided they can't be together, then why the heck is she inviting him to a wedding and why is she going to the beach with him. I get the writers want to go with the whole sexual tension thing, but how about a little finesse and subtlety? How about making us wonder and root for them?


I actually think the roller coaster aspect of Sarah's feelings for Mike makes for better characterization than finesse or subtlety. She either can't decide how she feels for him, or she has decided that she loves him, but is trying (but failing, when his or her life is on the line) to hide behind a mask to see if he reciprocates those feelings.

Sarah and Mike are agents of the Foundation, after all. They could die at any given time, so sometimes dispensing with sublety in their feelings works out better.

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