I'm Listening

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z00story
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I'm Listening

Post by z00story » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:58 pm

If it means anything. I was a fan of the original show.

I'm here reading, listening. Give me your ideas and I will work with you.

z00story - aka - the guy designing the K.I.T.T. H.U.D.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by neps » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:29 pm

Hello and welcome to KRO!

I'm attaching a image file as reference for anyone who wants to participate in this discussion.

z00story - can you give us any insight into your research in coming up with these designs? Did you also do the displays for the TV Movie, and if so what has changed since then (do things like the digital gauges still exist). Any materials or information you can provide will let us be more constructive and focused in feedback.

And to all the viewers of KRO - lets try and keep this civil! :good:
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KITT HUD
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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:29 pm

Welcome to the board!

I think the general consensus was that the "iPhone" screen had nice graphics in the two-hour movie, but it just wasn't enough. KITT is supposed to be the car of the future and should look more stunning than what you would see in a Prius. From the tiny clip we saw in the preview, the HUD is certainly a lot more sophisticated.

I'm not sure how Michael will interact with the screen yet, but here are two things I'd personally like to see:

1. An update of the "checkerboard wipe" from the original series. Whenever the Knight 2000 would show a video or graphic, we'd see the same effect zooming in and out. I'd like to see a 2.0 version of that. Maybe it's a 3D effect, I don't know.

2. Knight branding. Let's see the chess piece as a logo in the corner of some windows or as a background effect. Again, tie it in to the original.

Once we see the screens in action, I assure you you'll get more feedback than you could possibly want!
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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Niggle Snoosh » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:54 pm

Off the top of my head:

In the pilot KI3T used pictures to aid his verbal communication, i'm hoping that some form of this may be used on the hud.

Although misused in KR2000 i do believe an infrared display of what can be seen through the windshield would be a good. Add to this (K)night vision so that the roads are clearer at night and it makes it easier to spot bad guys fleeing into the night or in some darkened warehouse or whatnot. An ultra-violet spectrum thing could also be used to highlight blood and such things the eye may not see.

The possibilty of images being projected on all windows, although windshield being the only one interactive and only responds to the fingerprints of trusted personel. This could be used to project a static or moving image to give the illusion that the car is somewhere other than it is. I could imagine KI3T 'abusing' something like this to trick Mike, maybe Mike is trying to explain the concept of practical jokes or April fools to KI3T.

Also you say you in charge of designing the hud, do your duties also include anything related to KI3T's voicemodulator

oh and welcome :)
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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Cam KNIGHT » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:59 pm

Hello z00story, I'm a french guy , and sorry for my English if you won't understa,d what I will say , It's not you lol !

The hud display lack of colors. Some othe colors like orange or blue would be great in this.

A touchscreen in addition with this hud, like in the backdoor pilot would be great too ^^

The steering wheel (if you cant talk of this to someone) , was better in the pilot.

So , it looks very nice for the moment , good job ^^

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Stylez » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:49 pm

I gotta say this is VERY cool! :good: Thanks for letting us know you're here. I think the HUD looks cool as is in the picture but the only thing that looks odd is the "incoming missile" text, it's a warning and that should constitute a red color, in my eyes anyway.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by z00story » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:57 pm

Hey guys, great suggestions so far. I can't go into everything at this point. But know that I am specifically responsible for the graphics on the windshield, and windshield only. I have no power over the dashboard, wheel, or any of that. So sorry!

If someone can point me at the "original checkerboard wipe" example - that sounds like something interesting to work with and update.


[EDIT] I had to take down some stuff due to my NDA I signed, sorry!
Last edited by z00story on Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Mango19 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:59 pm

Great to have you on board, z00story! I'm assuming a lot of the HUD's capabilities will be story-driven, so:

1) Does Michael have sunglasses or contacts that access the HUD for those times that he doesn't want the info sprayed across KITT's windshield? Something to think about - the sunglasses could also replace the watch, giving HUD capability outside the car.

2) The military has been playing with eye-movements to select actions in a HUD, does KITT have that same ability?

3) How about status on which satellites KITT's uplinked to, ongoing location of all police vehicles relative to KITT (via their GPS), number and direction of other cars on the road, etc.?

4) You might also want to play with different color and data schemes depending on what KITT's up to at the moment and who's driving him. Example: a military-type, greenish threat assessment HUD during action sequences (like the one you currently have), but a more colorful, relaxed display with cruising through the countryside (kinda like a take on a family's GPS). ( edit - just saw your post - never mind :) )

5) Don't know if you have any say on this, but don't totally give up on tactile buttons, either. There's just something about mashing a button on a console instead of waving hands around in the air...

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by pheonix_knight » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:06 pm

I really like the idea that people making the show are coming directly to the fans and asking them what they would like to see,

one idea they could use when showing anything in infra red/UV is to first show a shot of the scanner at the front scanning from the outside in on both sides as it does on ki3t and then to show the image being 'built up' inside on the screen in the same way, and then as the scanner goes back out, we get further definition on the image

the originall KITT had video calling, is this still going to be used? i notice now in the new clips that the touchscreen seems to have gone so the display now would be the HUD

also on some of the clips from Comic Con, GST mentioned having Ki3t displaying which mode he was in (ie Attack/Persuit etc...) seeing as basic HUD in exsisting cars shows speed/gear etc can we look forward to something along those lines possibly tying in with the look of the original KITT dash??

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by pheonix_knight » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:09 pm

pheonix_knight wrote:I really like the idea that people making the show are coming directly to the fans and asking them what they would like to see,

one idea they could use when showing anything in infra red/UV is to first show a shot of the scanner at the front scanning from the outside in on both sides as it does on ki3t and then to show the image being 'built up' inside on the screen in the same way, and then as the scanner goes back out, we get further definition on the image

the originall KITT had video calling, is this still going to be used? i notice now in the new clips that the touchscreen seems to have gone so the display now would be the HUD

also on some of the clips from Comic Con, GST mentioned having Ki3t displaying which mode he was in (ie Attack/Persuit etc...) seeing as basic HUD in exsisting cars shows speed/gear etc can we look forward to something along those lines possibly tying in with the look of the original KITT dash??


I was typing all of that whilst you replied....

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by pheonix_knight » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:12 pm

[quote="Mango19"]

1) Does Michael have sunglasses or contacts that access the HUD for those times that he doesn't want the info sprayed across KITT's windshield? Something to think about - the sunglasses could also replace the watch, giving HUD capability outside the car.

quote]

Is that straying a little too close to Mission Impossible??

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by z00story » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:13 pm

Hey guys, just in general, if there is something specific that references the earlier show(s) - if you can post an image or youtube video clip or the like it will be greatly helpful.

And, without violating my NDA, to answer many of your questions - yes, I have been thinking along the same lines, within the boundaries I have been given to work in.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Cam KNIGHT » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:25 pm


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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Stylez » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:28 pm

Here is a clip with some great examples of the "checherboard wipe" that has been referred to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDY7QrChXZI

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Niggle Snoosh » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:29 pm

In regards to the checkerboard wipe thing, although i'm all for nods to the original series unless you could make it look a bit fancy and modern perhaps it might be an idea to give it a miss since similar effects are a common effect on video editing software and things like powerpoint.

I do thinks perhaps an injection of brighter colours may help, after seeing those videolinks to youtube i think it would be a shame to forget about how well those reds, greens and yellow were. I suppose different infomation/modes could have different colourschemes as long as they all looked like they are part of the same software programs

and also
Mango19 wrote:1) Does Michael have sunglasses or contacts that access the HUD for those times that he doesn't want the info sprayed across KITT's windshield? Something to think about - the sunglasses could also replace the watch, giving HUD capability outside the car.


I think this could be a really cool idea and fairly easy to implemen or upgrade later in the series. Wearing sunglasses indoors or whatever the weather conditions could make the importance of them obvious or make Mike look stupid.

However a while back i read they are working on technology that allows you to change the shade of then lenses in one set of glasses to different colours, (ie brown, grey, blue, red yellow). So Mike could wear them as shades in the right conditions, normal specs in general conditions and fancy colours to impress ladies or something.
If he didn't want people to see the animated hud he could cover his eyes with his hand at a slight angle as if light is in his face or he is thinking.
Plus you could easily have a speaker in the glasses as well as a microphone hidden in the part thats sits above the ear
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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Judd » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:25 pm

One of the fun things they did in the original is when Mike would play video games while KITT drove. It would be fun to see Mike play new or old school video games with the graphics on the windshield while KITT drove.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Lameth1 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:37 pm

One thing that you could build off of is the HUD in the Knightrider 2000 movie, it overlayed different spectrums and combined them all to form a real but clearer than real view of the scene at hand. That would be neat to see when they were investigating something visually.

Also when Kitt is hacking into something do a graphical representation like the "going through the engine 3d" they do on the fast and furious movies.

Also, dont forget the rear view mirror could post displays as well, or even project them, if they let you have any say in that type of thing too.

You could also make room for a speedometer when he is driving around to give people an idea on how fast the car is actually moving, it would help draw it in during pursuit scenes.

And awesome job popping in here to ask us.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by FuzzieDice » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:38 pm

First Welcome to KRO! :)

I have a couple ideas, if you want to use them.

One is why not have KITT be able to put on screen (and black out all windows but the HUD) a visual that would be DIFFERENT from what they are actually driving in, make the driver THINK they are driving that course but in reality KITT is driving the actual course, creating the curves, etc. similar to real life but different view. The reason might be that if someone happens to steal him, he could make them think they are not going to the nearby police station when they actually are! ;) Or, maybe make someone think they are taking a different route then what they actually are. Might come in handy. Though I think that might have to be something cleared with the writers.

Something more on what you are actually doing now though would be maybe arrows when KITT is giving directions to point where he needs you to go, or to circle, highlight or point out points of interest (like a bad guy that is hiding, etc.) and x-ray vision only that part. Something like that?

Just ideas. Don't know if they can be used but thought I'd throw them out at ya and see if it'd make sense or be of use.

This is nice to see folks involved with KR projects that we ultimately see asking us what we would like to see. I realize you can't please everyone. In the end if I'm entertained (and I'm VERY sure I WILL be!) then that is all that matters. :) I like when a show is more interactive with the fans in this way.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by neps » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:21 pm

Some questions that were raised in my mind.

How much of the screen is HUD? Is it always on or is it only on for the Attack mode? I can see it being kind of annoying if every time we saw out KITTs window, we never saw any action or driving - and just overloaded graphics. I would imagine as a driver (Michael) it would be distracting too.

So are we talking just Attack KITT here, or all versions of KITTs? I would imagine that the Normal mode of KITT wouldn't need to show anything at all - as long as the speed info is kept where it was in the pilot - and only expanded to the windshield in cases of looking up info. (ie not for distance or speed, but to review case files or surveillance)

Also going on what we saw in the movie in February, I'd look to be careful with the color palette. The reds used then felt right, but the greens felt off. I think it's just that greens on computers to me feel very 1980s Apple IIe, which while being a great machine, it's not something the car of the future needs to have. Plus since they're already using blues and reds in the car palette, the green seems a bit out of place.

I would say use blues and reds, but I'd imagine the blues are hard with skies in the background. In fact, how can you do any of what you are showing in the trailer, if it's not at night? That's my worry is that we'll only see the car at night and in shadows. How can the HUD function in bright daylight?

I do like the idea of removing the rearview mirror (the original KITT never had one) - and simply turning a portion of the window into the "mirror" as needed

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Sue » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:42 pm

It is so cool that you decided to let us get involved in the HUDs development. :D I am sure that this will make us even more excited to see your final result. And less apt to complain too. :wink:
I feel very unqualified to give you any advice at all but I shall do my best.
I agree with Niggle Snoosh that I liked the pictures KITT used to communicate with in the backdoor pilot.
And I agree with Cam Knight that there should be a full color aspect, something that reminds us of original KITTs monitors. Perhaps a box outlined in red (or even have it change colors like in the pilot) could act as Kitts video monitor / video phone, it could appear in the center of the window where hopefully it won’t block the drivers view too much. I know KITT is very capable of driving himself, but we don’t want to lose the intense excitement you get from watching a human try to drive at such high speeds. (He can’t be playing video games all the time is what I mean.)
As to the touch screen, I feel that perhaps the computer of the future is an interactive display something like what we saw in iron man where it is not simple a touch screen but has a 3d aspect to it.
Pheonix_knight’s idea of building the image to mirror the effect of the scanner sounds totally awesome. :good:
As for Knight Rider 2000, I have such a bad impression of that movie that I’d almost want to shy away from anything that is similar to it.
Here’s a link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCXYWpkQ9NQ
Good luck, I’m sure it will be cool. :good:
PS. Neps just posted and I agree with him too, there might be times when simple is better.
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Re: I'm Listening

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:26 am

:lol: That promo is awful, but I guess that's fitting.

I had something to add but I forgot what that was... I think much of it is already covered. I do agree that it needs a little more color, full colored images would be nice but that might not work or be too time consuming or maybe not look so good outside smaller things like video conversations, if that's still going to be done. Just going by the preview I think it needs to be a little sharper, might just be the video quality. Maybe shrink it a little because there's nothing more annoying than a HUD that takes up too much of a viewing area and just dominates it.

I think that's a cue that could be taken from videogames and how they usually have their HUDs set up to where they're not over taking or dominating the screen, minimization is the key I think. I dunno how well the checker board transition would work here, maybe when it starts it and shuts off it could be used though I think I more like the scanner idea, maybe a combination of both for the start where the scanner animation comes up, followed by the checker board animation when it spreads out. Needs to remain at least a big transparent as well. If things are going to move around on the screen, such as windows and images and things like that then I think it should be kept simple with just a sliding animation. Most importantly, just keep it clean and keep it simple at least to a point, I'm sure a happy medium could be found between being too simple and too complex, it should be something that the viewer can easily catch and not have to go back a several times just to know what's going on as long as they're paying attention.

I dunno if I'd like to to change to red though I guess there could be a change depending on danger level, okay that might be excessive, possibly corny or just pointless. A little blue and sharper contrast though might be good. I think it might be hard, but I'd try to aim for something that'll still look good ten, even 20 years down the road which would be a major step up to the vector and Atari and even sub NES quality graphics and whatever used in the original show that have aged horribly and in some part weren't that great even back then.


EDIT: Just thinking that maybe the HUD should have the image quality of a 1080p DLP projector so maybe full color shouldn't be out of the question. It leave it open to a wider range of possibilities. Though again that might just be too much.
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Re: I'm Listening

Post by FuzzieDice » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:35 am

I agree with neps on what he said, and in particular the color palette. I love green (one of my computers, Megatron, is green themed). But, I think since they are going with blue for under-car lights and red for the vox, I think red/blue should be the scheme and not make KITT into a living Christmas Tree. ;) Although I think for KITT red was 'his' color (where yellow/amber was 'KARR's' color after 3rd season KITT vs. KARR).

Blue is becoming more and more a preferred color in computers too, and interior car lighting. It's calming yet bright. Megatron originally had blue lights and I replaced them with instead green-led fans (but that's just me). But the whole thing is he WAS outfitted with blue (the case, I'm talking about here - actually both cases I had him in - as the previous one had blue tubes on the front).

My car, Suse is blue exterior so if I do neons, it'll be blue.

Go with as much blue you can get away with, and add a little red to keep KITT at least a little like KITT we call are familiar with. That's my idea, anyway.

Will be neat to see how KI3T's HUD develops throughout the season(s). :)

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by neps » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:44 am

PHOENIXZERO wrote::lol: That promo is awful, but I guess that's fitting.


this NBC trailer is a bit better - but you only get a glimpse at some of the screens at the end:

http://knightrideronline.com/krepis/kr2000.php

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by Knight316 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:00 am

some sort of homage to KITTs startup sequence as shown in the video with the Checkerboard wipe could be cool.

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Re: I'm Listening

Post by z00story » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:19 am

Great comments!

The two shots for the Comic-Con trailer came out green in the compression somehow, but my originals were actually more Blue/Cyan - and hopefully they will remain that way down the road. Please understand that on a TV show, there are a lot of different people involved in the creative process. So a lot of things are out of my control. If the color timer decides to change my colors, or change the contrast of the scene, then that person has every right to do so.

A lot of your great suggestions have to do with story points. I wish I could address those, but I really can't, as I am not a writer. Ultimately, my job is to take what has been written/shot, and do the best job I can to visualize it and appeal to the creators of the show. That being said, the good news is, it seems like our team as already implemented a lot of ideas you guys have brought up - so they are listening too! I also passed on a few (non HUD related) ideas I heard here, and it looks like they will be embraced as well by others on the show. Please note we have already shot a lot of episodes, so these ideas will probably happen further down the line!

I will also do my best to appeal to fans, both new and old alike. It's most important to me to believe that this thing is real myself... feasible... within the world we are creating. I want to imagine that if I was a kid, I would believe this is real, I would jump around on my couch and pretend I was driving a car with a cool HUD.

Oh, and as for the color discussion, which seems to be fairly predominant - there will be different color schemes at times, which is about all I can say.

I will also add that the team I am working with has been great. We check these forums often and we do what we can to make things fun. We're all fans just as much as employees.

Good Knight!

Stephan

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