Is any KR better than none?

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Is any KR better than none?

Post by Shapeshifter » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:28 am

For those of you who have issues with aspects of the new production, ask yourselves...

Is it better to have a version of KR on the air that we may not like all the details about; than no show at all?

It's important, I believe, to be supportive in general, and not let our dislike for some details derail the whole show. Remember, the support on KRO is critical. This will be one of the most expensive shows on TV in a period when costs are up in general and viewership (and revenues) are down. You can be sure that NBC will be watching the numbers very carefully and could be quick with the hook if they don't like what they see. So, it's more important than ever that KR starts strong and stays strong, and positive word of mouth goes a long way in that regard. I would suggest that folks stop worrying so much about logos and hood scoops and start thinking about having, and keeping, a version on KR on the air.

This doesn't mean blind acceptance of the new series. After all, a show like KR would not get green-lit today if it weren't for it's legacy, and it is the details that make KR what it is. But, I just think it's better to not get too bogged down in the details and keep and eye on the big picture, which is having a modern version of KR on the air for years to come.

I am, of course, willing to entertain conflicting viewpoints. :)

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by DJGM » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:32 pm

Agreed. I'd have to add though that if KR had not been axed in 1986, and continued
beyond that, throughout the 90's, and into the 21st Century, what we'd have got in
that case, would likely have evolved into something similar to what we have now.

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:17 pm

Actually, I think it's worse to have a bad Knight Rider than no Knight Rider. I don't think that it hurts the existing franchise, it just potentially makes it more difficult for studios to greenlight future projects.

But I don't think it's an issue at all here. The new show is going back to its roots far more than any of the other spin-offs. We have a top-notch producer who has been listening to the fans and acknowledges some of the shortcomings of the two-hour movie. WAY too much attention is being paid to the hood of the Attack Car. THAT'S what's going to make or break the series?

Basically, I think it's too early to be asking the question. There is a lot of potential here. Lots.
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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Michael Pajaro » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:57 pm

Thinking some more...

Shapeshifter, I'd like to rephrase the question if I may: "Is it better to have an updated/re-imagined Knight Rider than none?" In that case, I'd have to answer "yes".

As tough as it is to admit, I don't think the model for a typical 80s Knight Rider episode will work in 2008. Shows have longer story arcs and ensemble casts and that's what people want and expect. Knight Rider has to evolve if it's going to succeed. And in the process, it's going to lose some the original fans. Whether they feel the car is wrong or the cast is too large or for whatever reason, not everyone is going to like the new show. And that's fine. They shouldn't feel forced to like it just because it carries the name "Knight Rider". I can almost guarantee you I won't enjoy the new show as much as the original. But would I like to see a new generation of fans discover their own Knight Rider? Absolutely. I'll always have my DVDs, and the Trans Am will still be an important icon for the franchise.

There's a fine line between honoring the original series, and being suffocated by it. There is a lot of change with the new Knight Rider which may or may not be good for US, but I absolutely believe it's good for the franchise.
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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Sue » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:16 pm

I would like to send out a great thank you and appreciation myself to everyone over at NBC. Job well done!!! It really looks great you guys!!! And if you ever cancel our show lookout because we are all going to start a letter writing campaign … and you know how annoying we can all be when we know what we want. :wink:
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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Niggle Snoosh » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:34 pm

I have to say that i am overjoyed about having a new KR project finally up and running.

I watched alot of TV as a kid and during the 80's they made some awesome shows, family/child friendly wise i believe they are much better collectively than the offereings we have now. In comparison i can't say i believe that when the children of today grow up will get even half as much joy when thinking back on the shows they used to watch. Which is a real shame.

I think a big part of why we get so picky is because these shows had a major impact on us when were growing and have to some degree become part of us. A lot of us do get overly negative at times but the majority of that happens from initial shock when we learn of changes to something we hold dear to our hearts. I think it's human nature to be a little aprehensive of change, just as it is to focus on the negative aspects since they are what play on your mind the most.

KR2000 and TKR attempted to revive a solid franchise without luck and a big part of their failings is they both seemed to miss the mark of what made the original so successful.
We as a community are desperate to not have that happen again and What you may see as whiny nit picking is in part simple venting of frustrations but most importantly an attempt to have our collective cries heard so the same mistakes won't happen again to ensure this new incarnation will succeed.
We have found out that NBC and GST have taken note of our disappointments and have taken appropriate action to appease us while making still making it accessible for a todays target audience. So you could in fact argue that are negatively is in someways helping the show to become something better. I for one think the footage from the new teaser showed far more promise than the pilot (which was more successful than not) and i do believe we as a community had a part ton play in that.

All of us here on KRO (really really really) want a new (ongoing) KR series, however the original meant something alot to us, we are just worried that certain changes/new directions could potentially harm the project before it takes off because if this fails any likelyhood of any further incarnations will disappear for good........... and we definetly DON'T want that.

What the new series needs to understand first and foremost is that KI3T as a car needs to be awesome and desirable, the mustang itself is no problem in this repect, the attack KI3T however could be, when we see it functional all worries may become null and void but it does not make KI3T appear, sleek, stylish or sexy..... Which is exactly what he should be, That is a huge part of why he is so popular both then and now, to this day the 82 Trans am/firebird is a great looking car. This is something that should not be overlooked. we want KI3T to remain beautiful and drool worthy for many seasons and decades to come.

KI3T also needs to be likeable, some have not taken to Kilmer's KI3T, i however am very fond of it. Of course his KI3T needs some episodes to find his feet (well tyres).
Other than his voice we also need his voicemodulater to be great to achieve this goal, after all it's the closest thing we will ever have to a face for KI3T which will let his personality shine through. The original seres naled it, i think the pilot did it pretty well but right now i don't see the current orb thing fufilling that necessity at all, i can only hope when seen properly i am proved wrong

We also need a cool Michael Knight and supporting cast, which we have..... so that is no problem. :D

It's a long hard wait to september for us fans (especially for us in the UK as we don't get nbc) but most of us are all willing to embrace the new series whatever it may bring.
However in the meantime we can only talk and speculate on what we want out of the series because we don't have one just yet to fully enjoy

All disapointments aside i am still MAJOR PUMPED for just for the simple fact that (after so long) we are (finally) getting a new Knight Rider. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Niggle Snoosh » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:00 pm

Judd wrote:The feeling I get when it comes to the new voice box is, I think it wil be KITT's eye and we'll be able to see things from KITT's POV. In the preview clip we see a fish eye lens shot of Justin responing to KITT.

I think that's kind of a nifty idea and visual.


If this is indeed true and a direction the new series is taking it is pretty awesome as it adds a whole new depth for KI3T and should add some of that personality i wasn't feeling from the teaser :) :)

Also i forgot to mention the futuristic dash was a huge part of KITT and the new seemingly ordinary could use jazzing up as the windshield alone isn't really enough to make KI3T jump out (interior wise) from a normal car. As of yet we don't really know if something along those lines has or will be implented as the series goes on and i can only hope it will
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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Victor Kros » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:39 am

Honestly I am a firm believer in less is more. I think there is a such thing as going too overboard and too over the top where the beauty of simplicity can really get lost. The power of good storytelling is to always take it back to the basics and make sure what is happening makes sense and then expand on it. The red flag I see with this new series is unlike the older classic, it's not kid friendly. It has been crafted and geared towards a more adult audience.

I agree that KITT should be sexy, sleek, and elegant. I don't much care for the idea that the car needs to be tricked out, sick, or over-accessorized. I think in all fairness, GST was very smart in deciding that KITT could be retrofited with different looks and tools suited for each mission. It gives them room for improvements without having to have too strong of a commitment to what may not work for the audience.

The Knight Industries Three Thousand and The Knight Industries Two Thousand are like night and day. The original KITT was lower key externally, defensive, and for the most part passive. The K3000 on the other hand is being crafted to be intimidating, mean, aggressive, and offensive. KITT's being handled more like a weapon as well as Mike's partner.

Being geared towards a more adult audience is not a problem mind you because as times have changed so has what we've considered appropriate and inappropriate on television but I would just say that one of the most pivotal non cast/design aspects of the original series was that it was fun for the whole family and remained vigitant to send a positive moral message to the youth that watched it.

It's not Sci-Fi's Battlestar Galactica. Knight Rider is not designed to be an adult orientated drama with adult situations. It was a more civilized show for a more civilized era that knew where the lines were and when not to cross them.

It's been said before and I'll say it again. We're not going to know what to really think at this point until it airs in September just like with the backdoor pilot. Until then all you can really do is speculate on what could or could not happen at this point.

I do not believe that it's success or failure will devalue the property of Knight Rider in general because of the simple matter that having Knight Rider advance is still a testament to it's power to exist and this time around they're at least trying to go back and recognize its roots. Again it all comes down to the strength of the story and the design.

If you don't like one version or the other, you find what works for you and stick with it.

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Sky_Blue_Civic » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:06 am

Michael Pajaro wrote:Actually, I think it's worse to have a bad Knight Rider than no Knight Rider. I don't think that it hurts the existing franchise, it just potentially makes it more difficult for studios to greenlight future projects.

But I don't think it's an issue at all here. The new show is going back to its roots far more than any of the other spin-offs. We have a top-notch producer who has been listening to the fans and acknowledges some of the shortcomings of the two-hour movie. WAY too much attention is being paid to the hood of the Attack Car. THAT'S what's going to make or break the series?

Basically, I think it's too early to be asking the question. There is a lot of potential here. Lots.


I also feel the same way too,Michael.And we all should be supportive of it.If you have an ability to write a letter(which I *know* you all do),we can send our suggestions to NBC.Even though we can't get everything we want,we should at least get the basic stuff:The Turbo Boost,the Voice(which is extrememly important),the voice modulator,ect.And not everything will turn out perfect(Attack KI3T,and the orb voice modulator,which also bugs me too,for exmple).But only based on a Pilot which was only made to test if people would tune in,and a couple of trailers won't change my mind on whether I'll see it or not.I'm just going to see the actual show,tune in a few episodes and see.
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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by whet » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:27 am

I'd say just wait untill the new series is a few episode in before being to hrash I am liking what I'm seeing so far, the pilot was ok, but any any case we can just forget that to as we know the series is going to be totaly diffrent.

As long as there is plenty of Kitt and action I'lll be happy/

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by KRisBack » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:41 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:WAY too much attention is being paid to the hood of the Attack Car. THAT'S what's going to make or break the series?


The car is what makes the show. If the're's issues with the car, there's issues with the show.

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Shapeshifter » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:00 pm

This is an interesting discussion.

Mike, I agree with your re-phrasing of the question. I really didn't mean that any old crappy Knight Rider is better than none at all. I just wanted people to not get too bogged down in the details at this point, especially since, as you pointed out, we don't know enough to have a clear picture yet.

I would humbly submit to Victor that the producers are VERY aware of the fact that it's meant to be a family show; and at that point it becomes a subjective measure as far as what constitutes family entertainment. It's good to remember that times have indeed changed, and so has the family show. You're basing that criticism on criteria that may not be valid today.

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by Victor Kros » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:55 pm

I would humbly submit to Victor that the producers are VERY aware of the fact that it's meant to be a family show; and at that point it becomes a subjective measure as far as what constitutes family entertainment. It's good to remember that times have indeed changed, and so has the family show. You're basing that criticism on criteria that may not be valid today.


Forgive me if I am not seeing that in the tv spots or script details that have surfaced. I want you to understand Shapeshifter, despite our differences in the past (especially with the backdoor pilot) I do want this show to succeed and I am in no way out to hinder its goals to succeed at this point in time.

I do not exactly support the new show's choices of direction, but I do respect them.

It's been a very long road of changes and again there are no longer camps to be concerned with. As a Knight Rider fan in general (and not a representive of Larson) I have certain expectations I would like to have met at least half way in order to feel more comfortable accepting these new directions the show is choosing to go in.

I have no ill will towards you thus far, despite our difference of opinion in the past. I had to approach certain conflicts during the time they occured and the necessity to do so has now changed over the duration of the year.

From a design standpoint, I still do not agree with some of their choices but that's my opinion. Since this is now being spun as the "new mythology" of Knight Rider ala Star Trek TOS and Star Trek The Next Generation, they're going to do what they feel they need to update what came before and gear it towards modern audiences.

I have always been a feirce supporter of the original series and everything that it stood for. I'm not saying it was perfect by any means but it had a unique approach to things during its time that quite frankly I'm not ready to let go of. When you modify someone's memories of a show or alter their perceptions of what it should be, you run into conflict. This is the unfortunate side effect of choosing to update a popular concept or reboot it.

I am sure there may be some simular concerns with the motion picture but the difference here is time and place. We're starting over from the beginning and they are continuing where the older mythology left off. They have more responsiblity to establish connections to the past.

You say the producers are VERY AWARE of the concern for younger kids watching this program, I respectfully and humbly disagree. Based on what has been disclosed from marketing and interviews, their target audience thus far as been the fast and the furious, bling bling, more teenage demographic and until I see otherwise, that's how I feel about it.

As far as basing my criticism on criteria that may not be valid today, with all due respect good parenting and good morals never go out of style, and never become dated. What is acceptable is up to the parent to decide what is best for their kids and if they prefer a more teenage direction, that's their choice.

Again this is my opinion and my observation.

I am not condeming anyone, I'm not making accusations, I am just saying please keep these things in mind as they go along and if they do that, everything is cool. Again I repeat that I believe these two properties can co-exist but they will most definately go off in their own directions. It's up to the fans to decide which version they prefer or if they prefer both.

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Re: Is any KR better than none?

Post by sarfraz » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:44 am

I think what was interesting about the original series was the fact that like a Pixar animation, it layered the story in such a way that it interested both adults and kids. The adult nature was subtle to the point that when I watched the series as a kid, I didn't pick up on it. Only on recent revisits did those become more apparent. A family show hasn't really changed much in what can and cannot be shown in the UK. judging by some of the stuff coming out of the US it is not really. We'll have to wait and see till September to judge if the new series is family viewing.

On the front of this new series itself. Although I have been vocal of my dislike of the attack mode KITT, I understand the need for a dramatic appearance. It won't stop me watching the series (when it eventually airs in the UK!!!) as I think this has a fair anology to the new Transformers films, ironic considering thats kinda why KR is back! When the robots were previewed and images leaked it caused massive concern in the TF fandom. I was worried to say the least. Its only after seeing the bots in action did I change my mind.

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