Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

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Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by Wedgewalkr » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:05 pm

Hello, all. I thought it might be fun to have a thread where we look at criticisms folks have of the new show and evaluate them in a quasi-orderly manner.

I was hoping the thread won't devolve into "I like this cause I like this style" or "I think this is dumb because it's dumb," but rather evaluating whether the decisions made by the producers and writers make sense.

A few to prime the pump:

1. KITT was a Mustang. Well, Pontiac doesn't make a Trans-Am anymore. The producers wanted a muscle sports car. With the exception of the Dodge Charger (which has 4 doors and feels less like a sports car....this coming from me, a Dodge fanboy), the Corvette (which has no back seat, which you'd probably need in a Knight Rider show), and the Camaro (which is what Bumblebee was), the Mustang is the only muscle car out there. In today's show business climate, you need a car company to sponsor the show in order to get the budget required to make a good quality show. That means going with a car in, or about to be in, production. Given the criteria, the Mustang is the most logical choice.

2. Kilmer's delivery as KITT was rather flat. Well, I think it's important to note that KITT 3k is, in many ways, apparently an infant. He hasn't been thoroughly tested, which suggests he hasn't been on-line for very long. Much of what he did in the pilot was done according to a pre-programmed check list, which suggests he hasn't had time to learn how to do lots of adapting, which suggests he hasn't been on-line for very long. The FBI knew that Graiman was working on "a new KITT," which suggests....

So this KITT, moreso than KITT 2k it seems, is a tiny baby infant. He hasn't interacted with humans much, as shown by his 'surprise' that Sarah's fear was irrational and unfounded (note how she said, "welcome to the world of human beings"...I think that's a story beat there). So he hasn't had time to develop much of a personality. As such, he's more flat. But, in my opinion, in a charming way.

3. Why show the CGI of the bullets hitting KITT? Well, remember this KITT doesn't have a molecular bonded shell. Instead he has nano-tech enhanced repair abilities. The CGI shots show that in fact, yes, these bullets are damaging the car, but are almost immediately being repaired. It sets up the fact that if KITT's computer goes off-line, the car is vulnerable.

4. Why not have a molecular bonded shell? Well, from a production stand-point, it's sort of a hokey magical Star Trek thing ("ah..molecular bonded shell...ok"), whereas the nano-tech deal has a mechanism behind it (nanites) that the audience can at least kind of get behind. And from an in-story stand-point, maybe prolonged exposure to a molecular bonded shell can be hazaardous?

5. If Graiman was so important, why wasn't he mentioned in the original show? Well, do we have to be told in the pilot? Maybe there are mitigating circumstances. Maybe Graiman didn't want his work to be known because of his 'paranoia' (as Sarah suggested his wife called it). There are any number of ways that could be explained. Again, we probably don't need that info in the pilot (as you probably couldn't go into enough detail to please the hardcore fans, and the info you had time to give would only confuse non hardcore fans).

6. Why is there no mention of Mike and his mom in the original show? Well, maybe there were mitigating circumstances. They were hidden for their protection, after all. Maybe there was some specific reason...some specific danger...one of such magnitude that Bonnie, KITT, even Devon might not have been able to know about Jennifer and Mike. Since the original show pretty much deals with Michael interacting with one of those folks...we the audience might not have been around at a time when he could talk about it. Hence, we never heard. Maybe the writers could even tie this story into some seemingly random and inconsequential thing in the original series.


So, I guess we're not going for "The Mustang is good because I like Mustangs" or "I hate KITTs voice because I don't like how flat it is." Rather, let's look at these things from an objective standpoint and see if they make sense.

Sound fun?

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by Wedgewalkr » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:16 pm

A couple more:

1. The whole being dropped off by a plane at the end thing was lame. Well, except that since they were in Prague, using a semi to get there just wasn't going to work...and would take way too much time even if it could.

2. Why didn't KITT shut down his wireless internet connection when they were hacking him? Well, you gotta figure that his 'modem' isn't just hanging out under the passenger seat or something. It's probably integrated into some of his other hardware...which also isn't just hanging out under the passenger seat. So physically unplugging it in under 15 seconds probably isn't an option. And if the first wave of the hack involved them disabling KITT's ability to do a software shut-down of the 'modem,' then there'd be no way for him to deactivate it. Thus, KITT can't turn it off, and neither can his human companions. Only remaining option, KITT turns himself off. (Too bad the hackers didn't prevent him from doing that.)

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by Wedgewalkr » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:33 pm

Loybound brought one up that I too wondered, and don't have a good answer for:

Anyone notice the plot hole where they explain how KITT"s firewall was cracked? They say that the bad guys had access to KITT's blueprints and what not when they stole the hard drives. But later, they reveal that THE HARD DRIVES WEREN'T CRACKED!?!?!?!?!

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by GN_WS6 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:44 pm

Let's not forget how KI3T had no clue if the old man (i keep forgetting his name) Krainer or whatever was unconsious or dead. Wasn't he in surveilence mode? He's supposed to be more up to date and on the ball than KI2T ever was and KI2T knew what time it was. That Mustang was useless if you ask me. :lol: Plus KI2T would've never took off like a scared little bitch like that either, he would've at least try to find him instead of automatically driving 500 miles out of his way to find Krainiers daughter... Stupid show..
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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by K.I.A.N » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:48 pm

I agree with you.

People aren't giving it a chance but its ONLY the pilot. Given a chance they may be able to explan more.
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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by Wedgewalkr » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:53 pm

GN_WS6 wrote:Let's not forget how KI3T had no clue if the old man (i keep forgetting his name) Krainer or whatever was unconsious or dead. Wasn't he in surveilence mode? He's supposed to be more up to date and on the ball than KI2T ever was and KI2T knew what time it was.


1. It would appear that they're trying to be a smidge more realistic with technology these day...as more in the audience are tech savvy. As such, the show would need to explain how KITT could know the location and vitals on someone. (Note how the writer showed it with KITT locating Mike.)

2. Pretty sure Graiman (that's his name) was in another state. Even KI2T didn't have a surveillance mode that powerful.

GN_WS6 wrote:That Mustang was useless if you ask me. :lol: Plus KI2T would've never took off like a scared little bitch like that either, he would've at least try to find him instead of automatically driving 500 miles out of his way to find Krainiers daughter


Except that it appears KI3T hasn't been on-line very long and is in many ways an infant. Note that he told Sarah that Graiman gave him very specific programming for such a scenario (get Sarah, find Mike, turn self in). This KI3T was just following program, as he's not mature..and human...enough to disobey orders. Truth be told, I don't think KI2T was either.

GN_WS6 wrote:... Stupid show..


I have no response to that.

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by ckeller22 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:12 pm

Obviously you need to re watch your Knight Rider DVD"S. First of all KITT 2000 wasn't scared I guess you never saw Inside out when KITT told Michael he didn't want to go into the compound. Watch it .It sounds like KITT is nervous-Michael what happened to the other cars . So saying KITT was never scared or helpless you really haven't watched it. All your debate of how much the KITT 3000 sucks and is a wimp is so ignorant i can't even comprehend it . You are comparing a A.I that had four seasons to developed against a A.I. that just got activated due to a pre program built into him. His programming dictated what he did not him. His pre program told him specifically to get Sarah to safety,acquire mike and than turn himself in to the FBI. The programing did not say rescue me Charles Graiman first than get Sarah. It had basic instructions to follow and that's what it did obediently. He never did anything to intentionally hurt people both times humans controlled what he did just like Michael Knight did with KITT 2000 on occasion. KITT 2000 had four seasons of technology added to him. KITT 3000 is an infant who hasn't had four seasons yet. Your trying to compare apples to oranges.

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by GN_WS6 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:07 pm

But KI3T also has 26 years of technilogical advancement on him compared to the beginnings of KI2T. Also, when Micheal was arrested and stuck in jail, KI2T was smart enough to resuce him in that pilot episode. And also in the same episode, when he got pulled over for being asleep behind the wheel, KI2T gave him advice on what to tell the cops. What would've KI3T done? "UHHH, This..is..bad.."

It seems like a lot more happened and they got a lot more accomplished in the origianl episode than what this one did too come to think of it. For the first 45 minutes or so, they just drove aimlessly around in the desert until they got new coordinents from the old man. There was too much lacking from this show, I'm sorry..
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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by ckeller22 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:13 pm

I don't think you ever will. Why because you are blinded for your love of the Trans am .No matter what they add or do if it goes to series will never be enough for you. I am sorry you feel this way.

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by Wedgewalkr » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:25 pm

GN_WS6 wrote:But KI3T also has 26 years of technilogical advancement on him compared to the beginnings of KI2T. Also, when Micheal was arrested and stuck in jail, KI2T was smart enough to resuce him in that pilot episode. And also in the same episode, when he got pulled over for being asleep behind the wheel, KI2T gave him advice on what to tell the cops. What would've KI3T done? "UHHH, This..is..bad.."

It seems like a lot more happened and they got a lot more accomplished in the original episode than what this one did too come to think of it. For the first 45 minutes or so, they just drove aimlessly around in the desert until they got new coordinents from the old man. There was too much lacking from this show, I'm sorry..



Again, 26 years of technological improvements aside, as ckeller22 (One Tree Hill reference?) pointed out, you're comparing apples and oranges. Even in the first episode KI2T had apparently been active for longer than KI3T was when the audience first sees him. He's running a pre-programmed program...because he's a baby. You can deny that, but is nevertheless still the case.

(By the way, they weren't wondering aimlessly in the desert.)

That may not be emotionally satisfying, but it is logically satisfying (it adequately explains the difference between KI2T and KI3T). And thus, for the purposes of this thread, I'd say that this criticism has been dealt with.

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by neps » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:40 am

Yes, KI3T comes 26 years later on technology - but we don't know what happened to the foundation during all that time. Maybe some of that tech is lost. Plus - KITT was built in a huge facility with hundreds of people working on him. For all we know it was just Charles building KI3T in his garage, I'm surprised it looks as good as it does!

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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by PHOENIXZERO » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:36 pm

Wedgewalkr wrote:
1. KITT was a Mustang. Well, Pontiac doesn't make a Trans-Am anymore. The producers wanted a muscle sports car. With the exception of the Dodge Charger (which has 4 doors and feels less like a sports car....this coming from me, a Dodge fanboy), the Corvette (which has no back seat, which you'd probably need in a Knight Rider show), and the Camaro (which is what Bumblebee was), the Mustang is the only muscle car out there. In today's show business climate, you need a car company to sponsor the show in order to get the budget required to make a good quality show. That means going with a car in, or about to be in, production. Given the criteria, the Mustang is the most logical choice.


I completely agree, this complaint is so beaten to death that it's just annoying. People can't go and look through some older post here regarding it and reasons why things were how they were just makes it even more annoying.


3. Why show the CGI of the bullets hitting KITT? Well, remember this KITT doesn't have a molecular bonded shell. Instead he has nano-tech enhanced repair abilities. The CGI shots show that in fact, yes, these bullets are damaging the car, but are almost immediately being repaired. It sets up the fact that if KITT's computer goes off-line, the car is vulnerable.

4. Why not have a molecular bonded shell? Well, from a production stand-point, it's sort of a hokey magical Star Trek thing ("ah..molecular bonded shell...ok"), whereas the nano-tech deal has a mechanism behind it (nanites) that the audience can at least kind of get behind. And from an in-story stand-point, maybe prolonged exposure to a molecular bonded shell can be hazaardous?



I agree about the bullets and the way I see it, the hazard of the MBS is that bullets ricocheted off it (as at least shown in the original pilot), which would have lead to research to remove that problem and potential danger. The nanoskin absorbing the impact of the bullet and then healing seems like a plausible alternative. That and Charles wouldn't have access to the MBS formula anyway, unless they decide to make him the inventor of that too. >_> <_<

The car being vulnerable when the AI is offline is certainly a weakness, hopefully either a "back up" is implemented so it can still function or KITT is made a lot harder to hack, heh.

5. If Graiman was so important, why wasn't he mentioned in the original show? Well, do we have to be told in the pilot? Maybe there are mitigating circumstances. Maybe Graiman didn't want his work to be known because of his 'paranoia' (as Sarah suggested his wife called it). There are any number of ways that could be explained. Again, we probably don't need that info in the pilot (as you probably couldn't go into enough detail to please the hardcore fans, and the info you had time to give would only confuse non hardcore fans).


Well, the easy answer to this is that Graiman didn't exist until the new TV movie. :D Hopefully they clarify his role and don't just make it sound like he did everything by himself.


6. Why is there no mention of Mike and his mom in the original show? Well, maybe there were mitigating circumstances. They were hidden for their protection, after all. Maybe there was some specific reason...some specific danger...one of such magnitude that Bonnie, KITT, even Devon might not have been able to know about Jennifer and Mike. Since the original show pretty much deals with Michael interacting with one of those folks...we the audience might not have been around at a time when he could talk about it. Hence, we never heard. Maybe the writers could even tie this story into some seemingly random and inconsequential thing in the original series.


Well given the date of birth shown in the TV movie, he was originally going to be 23 but it looks like they've added a couple years to his age or it was another mistake. Mike would have been conceived sometime in late 1981, probably October which is many months before the events of the original pilot. so he's the son of Michael Long. Maybe, his mother and Michae had broke up or were never actually together and then he got with Stevie, his son was born in June of 82' and he knew about it. Then the events of Knight of the Phoenix happened and some point not long after Michael Long being shot and "killed" Mike's birth mother died and word got back to FLAG as Michael told them about this woman (lets just say she didn't have any other family) and with Michael knowledge, this Jennifer character who could have also been involved with FLAG coming about to raise his son, protect him and "from the very first day" fell in love with the child and raised him as her own. That could take care of how she knew Michael Knight and even Graiman and at least partially explain the screwiness of the whole thing. She didn't seem to be a "fan" of Michael Knight even though we're lead to believe she had enough of a thing for him to get the chance to knock her up. Just Michael, Devon and Jennifer would have to know.



So, I guess we're not going for "The Mustang is good because I like Mustangs" or "I hate KITTs voice because I don't like how flat it is." Rather, let's look at these things from an objective standpoint and see if they make sense.

Sound fun?


Yeah, I'm trying to explain away my own timeline/story issues because as I've said, I liked the TV movie for the most part, the only thing I probably can't "fix" is the annoying attention the emblems on the cars got.

1. The whole being dropped off by a plane at the end thing was lame. Well, except that since they were in Prague, using a semi to get there just wasn't going to work...and would take way too much time even if it could.


It gave me a TKR flashback and yeah if it's not used every episode I can live with it, but it just didn't look good to me, the effect was CG and you could tell, it kind of looked bad when the car was rolling down the ramp and it had the typical poor physics/animation of CG that didn't get enough work. If it makes it to series and they do bring back the semi and I hope they do, one where the trailer actually matches the size of the set, they better not just do it with CGI like they did with the plane. It would certainly be cheaper and easier to do, plus it'll look better.

2. Why didn't KITT shut down his wireless internet connection when they were hacking him? Well, you gotta figure that his 'modem' isn't just hanging out under the passenger seat or something. It's probably integrated into some of his other hardware...which also isn't just hanging out under the passenger seat. So physically unplugging it in under 15 seconds probably isn't an option. And if the first wave of the hack involved them disabling KITT's ability to do a software shut-down of the 'modem,' then there'd be no way for him to deactivate it. Thus, KITT can't turn it off, and neither can his human companions. Only remaining option, KITT turns himself off. (Too bad the hackers didn't prevent him from doing that.)


That's a good point and I think a line was mentioned that he was being prevented from disabling the connections. It bugged me and yeah if the hacking was preventing KITT from disabling the wireless communication then it should have been able to prevent shutdown also. But eh, I guess it can be overlooked. Hope more work is given to prevent that sort of thing from being a done again or at least excessively as a way to neutralize the car for "story purposes".

You forgot a response to those complaining about the "vulgarity" and "perversion" though. :D Those are getting to be just as annoying as the people bitching about the car being a Mustang or the voice. Hello? Ratings symbol??? 9PM start time? Really, how many small children are even going to see it the way that adults would, most little kids would be oblivious. Hell, I've seen more skin walking through a mall than what was shown there and most little kids aren't going to see the sexual connotations there, if they do then they must have already been influenced somewhere else. Seeing that or the "vulgar language" (what the hell? What language was that?!) isn't going to scar your child or change their life at all, they're not going to become a sex (again there wasn't even any sex at all) craved perverts that curse like a sailor. Michael Knight had a new girl almost every week, sure you didn't see them do more than kiss but still you know as an adult he was certainly doing more than that and if Knight Rider was made today instead of over 25 years ago we would have seen that too, he drank a good quantity of alcohol and then drove and he drove around without a seat belt which was explained away later with the passive laser restraint BS. There's more but I think I've already written way too much.

Charles was in another part of California, I'm sure. They certainly weren't that far apart, only a difference being Mountain time from Pacific and Charles seemed to either be either in a mountainous region of either Nevada or California. KITT drove off at night or probably early morning before sunrise, reached Sarah during the day, it was dark again on the way to finding Mike, Charles was out getting to Jennifer's cabin. He could have hid during the day since he could've been easily spotted with the sun up.

I'm sure that still doesn't work well to explain the time of day changes though some of it certainly was in parallel to what was going on aside from Sarah, Mike and KITT.
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Re: Defending criticism of the new show (criticisms welcome)

Post by Valdez » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:20 pm

~3. Why show the CGI of the bullets hitting KITT? Well, remember this KITT doesn't have a molecular bonded shell. Instead he has nano-tech enhanced repair abilities. The CGI shots show that in fact, yes, these bullets are damaging the car, but are almost immediately being repaired. It sets up the fact that if KITT's computer goes off-line, the car is vulnerable.~

I really liked the nano-technology, it echoes true for today and shows what the future of automobiles may very well be. I watched a show not too long ago that talked about new cars coming with microscopic capsules that, when the car is scratched, break to release new paint and effectively "heal" the scratch. I'll have to look for the video and post it up here. The problem with the original series being rehashed for the "now", is that technology has sort of caught up to our original KITT...GPS locators and such.

I also completely agree with KI3T being built in the doctor's garage vs. KITT being built AT Knight Industries. People want to complain there's no turbo boost....maybe it'll get added in later if the series does well, the doctor couldn't possibly have had all the resources available to him that the original KITT had. I also doubt very much that the KI3T we saw in this pilot is a finished model of everything the car/AI will eventually be able to do...I don't think he used very much of what was advertised in that one promo, so I bet it's all coming soon.
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