KITT's creator confusion?

[KarlKnightRider]

In the interviews regarding the new Pilot, they say that the one person never identified in entire original series was who actually invented KITT.

However, I was strongly under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Wilton Knight was KITT's creator. It was him in charge of order the car be built quick so he could see it before he died. In the episode with Zachary, he calls KITT "Wilton Knights Miracle Car", and even goes on to say "if he actually managed to build that car...".

Also, KARR even speaks of Wilton Knight as his creator. So surely this is a heavy re-write of history? To say Graiman invented the original KITT as well as the Knight 3000. Sure he could've helped Wilton design the K2000, but it was still Wilton's invention was it now?

[JJSoCrazy]

I thought the same thing as well, however Charles Graiman can be the Creator under Wilton who helped invent KITT under his authority. Maybe Wilton wanted a "miracle car" produced and Charles Graimen help make that possible by introducing and inventing the first KITT. That is how I think of it.

[Matthew]

In Junk Yard Dog, it’s established that Wilton Knight hired a team consisting of Dr. Von Voorman, Dr. Breeland, and Dr. Yamato to build KITT, as they’re brought back to rebuild him after his near death experience.

From what information is gleaned throughout the series, we learn that Wilton hired these men because he was no longer able to have a hands on role like he had with KARR due to his deteriorating health. However, that’s not to say that he still wasn’t heavily involved in the non-physical side of the project.

Still, this Charles Graiman “loophole” is a heavily contrived one that really doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

Matt

[goldbug]

I always saw Wilton as the visionary and perhaps one of the original scientists behind KARR (and thus KITT). However I don't think any miracle of technology like KITT could be created by just one man. However, if it was Wilton's original inspiration and vision to assemble a team (that could include this new character) then it makes sense to call him "KITT's creator" just as you can say some of the classic Ford cars were "by Ford" (referring to the man) but of course there was actually a team of engineers behind it.

[KarlKnightRider]

I just had a new brainwave today regarding my original question.

So the original Pilot tells us Wilton Knight invented KITT, with the help of the team he assembled. (This being primarily the Knight 2000 Trans-Am).

Charles Graiman on the other hand could've been the guy who created KITT (the AI) once Wilton's own AI (KARR) failed.

The original team then finalising everything by combining the 2 entities whilst Michael Long was recovering.

[pheonix_knight]

surely Wilton if he 'created' anything, it was KARR, KITTs prototype...

Charles Graiman, having improved on KARR's imperfections, COULD be KITTs creator...

Wilton was on his deathbed as KITTs construction was being completed so he cant be credited with that really can he??

and then when people refer to 'Wilton's miracle car' they're actually referring to KARR not KITT because that was the one 'created by Wilton..!!'

[Victor Kros]

I agree with Matt. Charles Graiman is a character David Andron invented because he didn't have the foresite to actually study the older episodes of Knight Rider, just ridicule them. He took what he knew, scrutinized it, then insisted on reshaping the mythology of Knight Rider the way he would want it to be done, not how it was actually done.

I have no real sympathy for the amount of complaints he's received over these glaring inconistancies with the original series run, however I do hope that Gary Scott Thompson will have more respect for the original material and properly continue the mythology of Knight Rider without resorting to revisionist history.

Keep in mind with the backdoor pilot though, it was rushed from beginning to end. Not much time was spent to make sure it was consistant with the original series due to NBCU's insistance to rush it to the television screen.

With television what you see is what you get and if you rush things what you get is a gamble.

I for one will not stand for revisionist history. We know thar Wilton Knight conceived both KITT and KARR. He might have only finished building KARR before the AI went screwy but he was well along with overseeing the construction of KITT which we must assume was also his design just as much as he made it his mission to find the proper driver for KITT in the first place. You can tell from the pilot that Wilton Knight had a grand design for everything that he did in the time he had left. Nothing was coincidental.

Now some people might argue just because we didn't see things happen on screen, they didn't happen. I'm all for expanding events we don't see on screen but at least make them feasable with the material we have seen instead of contridicting it you know?

That's just my opinion anyway.

=VK=

[Sue]

I just had a new brainwave today regarding my original question.
So the original Pilot tells us Wilton Knight invented KITT, with the help of the team he assembled. (This being primarily the Knight 2000 Trans-Am).
Charles Graiman on the other hand could've been the guy who created KITT (the AI) once Wilton's own AI (KARR) failed.
The original team then finalising everything by combining the 2 entities whilst Michael Long was recovering.

Ah, I think you are right about this. I was having a lot of trouble getting over the information we learned in Junk Yard Dogs. But I think you are right. KITT the AI existed before the car and Wilton’s team. I can’t remember the episode name, but I do remember learning KITT first worked as a computer for the Pentagon.

Here we go, KnightCrusader99 figured this out already on another thread.

Re: Maybe that wasnt KITT in pieces

by KnightCrusader99 on Feb 19, 2008 1:10 pm
Like most other people here, I firmly believe that those parts are just spares from when Graiman worked on developing the original KITT.

I think Graiman was only responsible for KITT's AI. He said he built KITT for Wilton Knight, not the Knight 2000. From what I have seen from past threads on this forum, KITT is the AI/CPU and the Knight 2000 is the car. Graiman was probably at the Pentagon when he brought the first KITT online (thus explaining why he first came online in Washington, D.C.). Then, logically, Wilton had a team of the three scientists (forget their names) create the Knight 2000 car to house Graiman's advanced AI and voila, you get the original KITT. It's only speculation, but it answers a lot of questions.

Well I for one feel much better, because it’s true, we don’t know who created KITT the AI.

[Victor Kros]

I can’t remember the episode name, but I do remember learning KITT first worked as a computer for the Pentagon.

What episode was this mentioned? I don't believe I've ever heard of this Pentagon system connection in the original series?

=VK=

[Lost Knight]

I can’t remember the episode name, but I do remember learning KITT first worked as a computer for the Pentagon.

What episode was this mentioned? I don't believe I've ever heard of this Pentagon system connection in the original series?

=VK=

If I had to take a guess, I think Sue might be referring to one of the novels which makes a mention of the military being interested in K.A.R.R. But not wanting to be associated with violence, Wilton chose not to develop K.A.R.R. for the military and instead developed him under Knight Industries. At least that's the only thing I can think of that sounds similar.

[Sue]

I am referring to Knight 2:17 (Season 2 episode 17) Goliath Returns. At time code 15:28
KITT is heard saying, “Actually I first went online in a mainframe in Washington. But the government bureaucracy never suited me, too stuffy.”

And you people call yourselves FLAG operatives.
Oh sorry is my KARR side showing.

[KarlKnightRider]

I just had a new brainwave today regarding my original question.
Here we go, KnightCrusader99 figured this out already on another thread.

Re: Maybe that wasnt KITT in pieces

by KnightCrusader99 on Feb 19, 2008 1:10 pm
Like most other people here, I firmly believe that those parts are just spares from when Graiman worked on developing the original KITT.

I think Graiman was only responsible for KITT's AI. He said he built KITT for Wilton Knight, not the Knight 2000. From what I have seen from past threads on this forum, KITT is the AI/CPU and the Knight 2000 is the car. Graiman was probably at the Pentagon when he brought the first KITT online (thus explaining why he first came online in Washington, D.C.). Then, logically, Wilton had a team of the three scientists (forget their names) create the Knight 2000 car to house Graiman's advanced AI and voila, you get the original KITT. It's only speculation, but it answers a lot of questions.

Well I for one feel much better, because it’s true, we don’t know who created KITT the AI.

Fabulous! Well this definately seems like the best fitting explanation for the characters all fitting together. HOPEFULLY this is what they will go with for the new series.

[Victor Kros]

I am referring to Knight 2:17 (Season 2 episode 17) Goliath Returns. At time code 15:28
KITT is heard saying, “Actually I first went online in a mainframe in Washington. But the government bureaucracy never suited me, too stuffy.”

And you people call yourselves FLAG operatives.
Oh sorry is my KARR side showing.

- I will check into it.

=VK=

[Lost Knight]

I am referring to Knight 2:17 (Season 2 episode 17) Goliath Returns. At time code 15:28
KITT is heard saying, “Actually I first went online in a mainframe in Washington. But the government bureaucracy never suited me, too stuffy.”

And you people call yourselves FLAG operatives.
Oh sorry is my KARR side showing.

Well, that's a really bad guess on my part, then.

[Sue]

I am referring to Knight 2:17 (Season 2 episode 17) Goliath Returns. At time code 15:28
KITT is heard saying, “Actually I first went online in a mainframe in Washington. But the government bureaucracy never suited me, too stuffy.”

And you people call yourselves FLAG operatives.
Oh sorry is my KARR side showing.

Well, that's a really bad guess on my part, then.

SHITT.jpg (49.33 KiB) Viewed 22790 times

Sue’s Hybrid Intel Two Thousand forgives you, you humans might prove useful to me yet.

[Victor Kros]

After reviewing the line Sue posted in Goliath Returns, I have come to a few interesting conclusions as to how it applies to the backdoor pilot.

1. First and foremost, we know from the pilot and from Trust Doesn't Rust that Wilton Knight created K.A.R.R. and by doing so knowing Wilton also invented various aircraft designs he also created (according to the show) the design for the car and it's specialized features. This means Wilton Knight and his team created the car itself that K.I.T.T. was placed in.

Keep in mind as stated from Glen A. Larson himself, K.I.T.T. is the computer inside the car. The car and K.I.T.T. are two different things. I believe he explains that the Knight Industries Two Thousand is the AI/microprocessor, and the Knight 2000 is the car itself.

2. Having established that Charles Graiman claims to have invented "the first K.I.T.T." it is possible he was part of a team that developed and brought K.I.T.T. online at the Pentagon. Therefore its feesable to say that Charles can claim to have invented or help invent "the first K.I.T.T." but NOT the Knight Industries Two Thousand "car" itself. K.I.T.T. wasn't in a car when he was brought online at The Pentagon, it wouldn't make any sense.

3. The backdoor pilot implies throughout that Charles Graiman invented the first K.I.T.T. not as the AI but rather the total package. Note that Jennifer even says "You built another one? It's not another Trans Am is it?" This implies that Charles invented K.I.T.T. as a whole, including the car. Furthermore it's implied he built the entire car in his garage because he has three other cars in there in various stages of completetion.

This is a direct contridiction to the events in Junkyard Dog where the original scientists were brought back to fix K.I.T.T. after the toxic waste incident. Furthermore if Charles Graiman had been on the "team" that invented the original car and KITT he should have been there when K.I.T.T. needed to be repaired all those times.

You could say however because Devon told Charles to go into hiding, it would make sense he wasn't there but in some capacity aided with the recovery effort.

However, the problem here is that in the backdoor pilot it's implied once again by Charles that he "created the first one"...not K.I.T.T. the AI that was brought online at the Pentagon but the entire package. This is simply not possible unless his line were to state, "I was part of the team that create the first KITT invented by Wilton Knight".

Then and only then would Charles fit into the Knight Rider timeline and still not resort to revisionist history because we did not know of the entire team that built K.I.T.T or the car itself. We know that Wilton Knight designed and created the original car and its features, because of K.A.R.R. and it's programming.

It is possible that after the incident with K.A.R.R. turning dangerous that Wilton Knight went back to the drawing board and asked Charles Graiman to help him re-develop the program, then perhaps instead of putting it into the car he opted to put it into the Pentagon's services. This would explain how KITT was brought online in Washington and would not tamper with the timeline.

But then how did K.I.T.T. end up BACK INSIDE the car? Well that's sadly fixed with one of the most cliche explainations. The Government didn't feel K.I.T.T. was reliable for their needs and rejected using it, which would then force Wilton to go back to his original intention which was to put it back into the car again, then find a suitable driver.

However the same problem exists. Charles Graiman DID NOT invent K.I.T.T., if anything he was part of a team that developed the A.I. Since Wilton had already built the first car with K.A.R.R., there is no way that Charles could have invented the car itself, let alone it's features.

Furthermore we don't see any connection from Charles nor does he mention any relationship to Wilton Knight or Devon Miles. The only connection we are given is to Knight Industries. If Devon put him into hiding, how is it that Charles can create all this fantastic new technology for the Knight Industries 3000 in his garage and no one is able to find this out? Granted the FBI "knew" he was doing something but that is because of Ravai's relationship to Charles, nothing more.

It just doesn't add up how things are established now.

In conclusion, I have come to the realization that Charles Graiman can only claim to have "invented" the Knight Industries Three Thousand, and presumably the car technologies itself. He cannot claim to have designed or built the original 82 Trans Am, let alone it's features. This might explain why the Mustang doesn't turbo boost, use oil slicks, use the MBS, or any of the other gimmicks exclusive to the original Knight Industries Two Thousand.

He didn't know how to make these things because WILTON KNIGHT did it before his involvement.

Graiman didn't know the Knight Compound formula for the MBS, hence why the Mustang doesn't have it.

So having proven my point here, the backdoor pilot is still using revisionist history but it is possible that the television series led by Gary Scott Thompson can set the record straight if they pay attention to these connections and smooth out the horrid inaccuricies the backdoor pilot created.

Quite simply do not make Charles Graiman out to be smarter then he really is. Give the credit where it's due and that's to Wilton Knight and the original series team who kept the original K.I.T.T. in shape.

LONG LIVE THE CLASSICS!

Feel free to share your comments.

=VK=

[Sue]

After reviewing the line Sue posted in Goliath Returns, I have come to a few interesting conclusions as to how it applies to the backdoor pilot.

In conclusion, I have come to the realization that Charles Graiman can only claim to have "invented" the Knight Industries Three Thousand, and presumably the car technologies itself. He cannot claim to have designed or built the original 82 Trans Am, let alone it's features. This might explain why the Mustang doesn't turbo boost, use oil slicks, use the MBS, or any of the other gimmicks exclusive to the original Knight Industries Two Thousand.

He didn't know how to make these things because WILTON KNIGHT did it before his involvement.

Graiman didn't know the Knight Compound formula for the MBS, hence why the Mustang doesn't have it.

Yes, I agree with you here. This is why new KI3T is so different and lacks some of the main technology of KI2T like the MBS. Even though he didn’t build him, Charles obviously was kept informed on KI2Ts capabilities considering he lived next door to Michael’s “wife,” and I’m sure they talked often about the first KI2T. So it makes sense that Jen would say things like, “you built another one.” I don’t think that phase has to imply that he built the first one; nor does her saying, “not another Trans Am is it.”

I’m sure the writers will take all of your points into consideration. Hopefully we have helped them to perfect their logic.


And please everyone, visit the General forum and send your love to Universal on this sad day.

[goldbug]

I guess you can work facts into whatever paradigm you want. I can see your POV, but to me, it's not inconceivable that Graiman was one of the original scientists who worked on some aspect of KITT and maybe his rep just got blown up over time. Frankly, if they had just changed the lines to say Graiman "Was part of a team that developed the original KITT" then I don't think everyone would be in such an uproar over it. As I mentioned in my analogy above to Ford, it's easy to say a car or invention "belongs" to someone, but often there is more than one person to be credited.

[Lost Knight]

I guess you can work facts into whatever paradigm you want. I can see your POV, but to me, it's not inconceivable that Graiman was one of the original scientists who worked on some aspect of KITT and maybe his rep just got blown up over time. Frankly, if they had just changed the lines to say Graiman "Was part of a team that developed the original KITT" then I don't think everyone would be in such an uproar over it.

I have the same conclusions as Victor but I never went into that much detail. It's convenient that he wrapped everything up in one post for reference as opposed to my thoughts spread all over the place over the last few months. Not much more for me to comment regarding that.

As I mentioned in my analogy above to Ford, it's easy to say a car or invention "belongs" to someone, but often there is more than one person to be credited.

Hmm...George Barris and the Back To the Future DeLorean and K.I.T.T. spring to mind...

[PHOENIXZERO]

Hopefully that is one of the things that get "fixed" in the new series. Considering it seems like Graiman's thing is AI, I think they might be able to get away with saying he created the KITT AI, maybe even helped look over the building of KITT in the Knight 2000. I think it's safe to say that since KITT was able to be restored from back-ups in Junk Yard Dog Graiman probably wouldn't have been needed.

I wish they could consult fans with this sort of thing (unless there's a hardcore fan or two on the creative staff) but that sort of thing is typically a "no-no" due to legal issues or they could just sign them up to contracts. >_>

[Victor Kros]

I have the same conclusions as Victor but I never went into that much detail. It's convenient that he wrapped everything up in one post for reference as opposed to my thoughts spread all over the place over the last few months. Not much more for me to comment regarding that.

- Care to clarify that a bit more? Keep mind I have been off the net for most of the last three or four weeks working on other projects which I have mentioned so if I overlooked some of your many thoughts spread all over the place it wasn't intentional. I don't have the time at present to read through every thread out there.

=VK=

[Lost Knight]

- Care to clarify that a bit more? Keep mind I have been off the net for most of the last three or four weeks working on other projects which I have mentioned so if I overlooked some of your many thoughts spread all over the place it wasn't intentional. I don't have the time at present to read through every thread out there.

=VK=

Oh, that's fine. There's really not much more for me to add about it so I'll just sum up some of the points in my own words. Basically I came to the conclusion that Wilton Knight had invented K.A.R.R. and subsequently K.I.T.T. as well. But as you say, there was a team that developed K.I.T.T.'s systems, which included the three scientists from "Junk Yard Dog" as well as Marco Berio (who arguably may have created K.I.T.T.'s C.P.U.) and Dr. William Albert from "Killer K.I.T.T.," as well as Dr. Browning from "Deadly Knightshade." There may even be others but no one else that I can recall as of now. This revisionist history seems to have existed even in the original series as the episodes progressed, but where the major difference comes into play is that there weren't blatant contradictions to anything established earlier (aside from little details once in a while like Michael Long's badge number changing later in the series and things of that nature). So really, the only way I can accept Charles Graiman as the creator of K.I.T.T. is by having him be yet another name among the roster of people who developed his systems, but perhaps with the most significance. An analogy I could make is having an artist use a ghost writer to write their songs when the rest of the general public is under the impression that the artist wrote the songs themself. The pieces to the puzzle don't fit no matter which way we slice it. But this is the explanation that makes the most sense. Really, explaining a casuality loop in time-travel makes more damn sense than trying to rewrite pre-established history.

What makes no sense to me, however, is why Graiman had to go into hiding yet Wilton Knight and all of these other people who contributed to developing K.I.T.T.'s systems never had to go into hiding as well. Hell, even the individuals (which includes Devon, of course) who knew parts of the formula for the Molecular Bonded Shell were protected by not knowing the entire formula as opposed to being forced into hiding with a body double the rest of their lives. Yes, it's possible that Gary Scott Thompson and the new writers will take steps to try and iron out the wrinkles so to speak, but I really don't see how that can be done other than making it clear that Jennifer somehow misunderstood Graiman's involvement in the creation of classic K.I.T.T.

[Victor Kros]

That's a good way to see it I guess, good analysis. I would rather have Charles say he was "on a team" rather then imply he invented the first K.I.T.T. in general or at least clarify exactly what he did because for me that's just a slap in the face to Wilton and the other original technitions who worked around the clock to make Wilton's dream a reality long after he passed on.

A great deal of credit should be given to Bonnie and April for maintaining K.I.T.T.'s systems as well. Without their technical know how, K.I.T.T.'s legendary career would have been cut short along with Michael before it really had a chance to begin.

In the episode of TKR called "Legion of Doom" we were told a guy named William Key claimed to have invented K.I.T.T.'s original scanner light but never recieved his due credit for it.

=VK=

[Knight316]

Do you think that if they do clarify that he was on the team and maybe the lead scientist involved or something that they could say he went into hiding after Garth/Wilton's wife went after all the other scientists for the MBS formula as a way of protecting himself? can't remember where exactly in the Timeline that happened, if it was before or after they had to rebuild KITT in Knight of The Juggernaught. Maybe that he was the one who had developed KITT's systems or AI but didn't nescessarily implement them and Wilton was the man with the dream of a car that could do these amazing things and was the guy with the money but not nescessarily the scientist that actually developed the systems. My knight Rider history isn't as vast as most of you so i don't even know if this could be possible or not. Is it possible that the original idea for the car was to have someone always be driving and then when the military dumped KITTs AI, Wilton and his team developed KARR from that technology and then when that went wrong, just improved on KITTs military AI. I dont' know...i think i'm just pulling stuff out of the air. Lol

[Kaine]

as to why Graiman went into hiding...
it has propably nothing to do with the invention of the first KITT. maybe he was also involved in some other top secret project, maybe even for the government, some early form of prometheus or something like that.
at leas this would explain why Graiman had to hide, while Devon and all the others didn't.