CGI Turbo Boosts

Archive for discussions from 2007. Please post new discussions in the appropriate forum.

Moderators: Matthew, neps, Michael Pajaro

Locked
User avatar
Michael Pajaro
Advisor
Posts: 3082
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

CGI Turbo Boosts

Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:04 pm

This seems to be a big enough topic on its own, so I pulled messages from the other thread:

Joe Huth wrote:
Victor - a request that you might be able to pass on to Glen....

NO CGI TURBO BOOSTS!! Even the best CGI still looks "less real" than "real". I know in "Gone in Sixty Seconds" (the remake), they jumped the Mustang at the end and it looked incredibly fake (I know, it was years ago, and CGI has improved, but still...)

Jump real cars!!


sarfraz wrote:
...what about integrated CGI like in Batman begins. They launched a car for real in that film but only used CGI to cut and edit different jumps to make it look like one jump. I'm thinking about the batmobile jumping into the batcave as an example.


Michael Pajaro wrote:
That's a tricky one. If we want to see a turbo boost without a ramp hidden behind some bushes, I think they have to go CGI. They can't simply film a real jump and then remove the ramp digitally later. The shocks on a car react differently if they go off a ramp than they would if the body of the car was launched in the air with a turbo boost. It would just look wrong. Not to mention coming up with a smooth landing.

Maybe there can be a hybrid solution, where they film a real jump and then replace the launch and landings with CGI cars. But from a practical standpoint, I don't see how they can get around it.


victor kros wrote:
In the tv series they would usually cut away and not show how the car actually landed from the Turbo Boost jumps but instead show Michael's reaction in the driver's seat. They would also cut to footage of a car landing (or miniature in some cases) from a far smaller jump then edit the shots together.

You can see evidence of this in the Knight Rider blooper reels found on youtube where they show the damage that really happened after they landed from the jump.

I'm doing my best to make sure Glen keeps the car as realistic as possible and he agrees that using too much CGI or a CGI car would ruin the suspension of disbelief. Some things we want KITT to do however will require CG regardless.


Lost Knight wrote:
Well, for Batman Begins there was very, very little CGI, but in most instances where the Tumbler was shown turbo boosting, there were many cars built for the film. Some of these cars were simply empty shells shot through cannons, such as the scene where the Tumbler flies through the waterfall and into the Bat Cave. This same method can be easily applied to Glen's film without sacrificing extra real stunt cars and avoiding CGI as much as possible.

User avatar
Michael Pajaro
Advisor
Posts: 3082
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:07 pm

If they used a cannon in Batman Begins, that means we didn't actually get to see the car launch into the air. My problem with using real cars is that I WANT to see a full turbo boost. I want to see KITT driving along the street, and then suddenly leaping in the air without any quick editing or hidden ramps.

And yes, I want to see a Bullet-Time turbo boost (no CG necessary). I don't care if it's cheesey or silly or a cliche, but they just HAVE to do it! :)
Last edited by Michael Pajaro on Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FuzzieDice
KRO Podcaster (retired)
Posts: 3333
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:55 pm

Post by FuzzieDice » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:32 pm

And my contribution from the other thread:

FuzzieDice wrote:Using real stunts is costly, especially in having to rebuild or replace the cars when damaged from jumps. CGI is a cheaper alternative.

CGI is getting much better and depending on the equipment and the staff skills, they probably can make it so close to real you'd never notice the difference, unless you freeze-frame (which you won't be able to do unless it comes out on DVD ;) )

Has anyone seen the Stuart Little movies? Stuart is CGI, and they made it look pretty darn good too.

User avatar
Lost Knight
FLAG Special Ops
Posts: 2716
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:45 pm
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Lost Knight » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:08 pm

FuzzieDice wrote:And my contribution from the other thread:

FuzzieDice wrote:Using real stunts is costly, especially in having to rebuild or replace the cars when damaged from jumps. CGI is a cheaper alternative.


Not necessarily. Sometimes most of the budget for movies goes to the CGI itself, not to mention that sometimes it may even take years to perfect those shots. Something as simple as the little floating feather during the opening credits of Forrest Gump cost in excess of a million dollars, for example. (Of course times have changed since then, but CGI shots are still expensive and much more over-the-top these days.) But most of the time, in my opinion, CGI not only looks fake, but it costs a lot and can severely delay openings of movies that would have been done a year or two earlier. (Can you imagine waiting as long as another year or two for the opening of a Knight Rider film just because of CGI shots on top of all the waiting fans have done already?) There's always those examples where the CGI looks breathtaking, too, to be fair, like in Transformers, but I think it should be used only when absolutely necessary.
“Gimme maximum turbo thrust and blast me outta here, will ya!?”
:kitt: :dash4:

User avatar
sarfraz
FLAG Assistant
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: London, UK

Post by sarfraz » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:46 am

I believe they are using CGI in the new speed racer film? this should give us an idea how well they can animate a car.

Mike, the full on jump can be done relatively simply with the ramp digitally removed. Problem then is the dynamics of the suspensions....which again could be CGI altered. I think this is what I was getting at. Use real footage and adapt it with CGI to further enhance the look.

Sarfraz
"I would not sell yourself short Michael, you are much more than a horse"

User avatar
cloudkitt
FLAG Operative
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 11:34 pm
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Post by cloudkitt » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:07 pm

I would prefer that the jumps are at least partially real. But as an avid follower of the video game world, you won't find me underestimating CGI (watch Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children to see just how good it can look. Of course you can still tell the difference, but just look at the main character's bike, it looks pretty solid).

Image
Michael: "KITT! Where are ya?!"
K.I.T.T.: "I'm in your parking space, Michael, where else would I be?"

remote_jup
Recruit
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:22 pm

Post by remote_jup » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:44 pm

CGI has come very far in such a little amount of time. In fact, it is my opinion that anything fake looking about CGI could be totally due to the artists involved with it. As skilled as the artists are, they are still working with pixels in an artistic way. It is my feeling that if the computer could be the artist and it analyzed the way reality looks for any given situation, it could manipulate the color spectrum to that finite degree that today's artists struggle so hard to eliminate.
This accout is only for use at unsecured public terminals by jup.

User avatar
Victor Kros
FLAG Operative
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:10 am
antispam: No
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 1982
Location: Knight Manor

Post by Victor Kros » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:23 am

I disagree,

Computers are tools, people are artists. The human brain is still uncharted territory that a computer has yet to replicate.

=VK=

FuzzieDice
KRO Podcaster (retired)
Posts: 3333
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:55 pm

Post by FuzzieDice » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:10 pm

I couldn't help this but had to share after seeing it. :lol:

Image

User avatar
Skav
FLAG Operative
Posts: 1999
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:01 am
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0
Location: England, UK
Contact:

Post by Skav » Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:49 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote: And yes, I want to see a Bullet-Time turbo boost (no CG necessary). I don't care if it's cheesey or silly or a cliche, but they just HAVE to do it! :)


Bullet-time is practically in every movie now (it's even in Alien vs Predator in a silly part of the film) and it would be very irritating to see it again in KR. I don't get the fascination with it. Slow down your DVD player if you want to watch things in slow mo.

User avatar
Garthe Knight
FLAG Recruit
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:01 am

Post by Garthe Knight » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:10 pm

Whole parts of "The Fast and the Furious" were made with CGI, some of the cars never existed. Or look at the TV commercials for cars, none of them are real cars anymore.
So especially for cars there is so much experience, I bet you can't tell if it's real or not. If it's done by professionals.

User avatar
micheal knights son
Volunteer
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:31 pm
What year did the original Knight Rider start: 0

Post by micheal knights son » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:31 pm

CGI i personally don't think can ever replace doing stunts for real. I also think you can usually tell when it has been done. The model turbo boosts for me spoil some good episodes of knight rider, my favourites are the ones where the car has been jumped for real.
Michael : alright gimme all the turbo boost you've got.

Kitt : michael we may not clear.

Michael : No choice Pal, HIT IT!!!!!

Locked