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Post by Joe Huth » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:58 am

Victor - a request that you might be able to pass on to Glen....

NO CGI TURBO BOOSTS!! Even the best CGI still looks "less real" than "real". I know in "Gone in Sixty Seconds" (the remake), they jumped the Mustang at the end and it looked incredibly fake (I know, it was years ago, and CGI has improved, but still...)

Jump real cars!! :)

Joe

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Post by sarfraz » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:53 am

...what about integrated CGI like in Batman begins. They launched a car for real in that film but only used CGI to cut and edit different jumps to make it look like one jump. I'm thinking about the batmobile jumping into the batcave as an example.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:24 pm

Joe Huth wrote:NO CGI TURBO BOOSTS!! Even the best CGI still looks "less real" than "real". I know in "Gone in Sixty Seconds" (the remake), they jumped the Mustang at the end and it looked incredibly fake (I know, it was years ago, and CGI has improved, but still...)

Jump real cars!! :)


That's a tricky one. If we want to see a turbo boost without a ramp hidden behind some bushes, I think they have to go CGI. They can't simply film a real jump and then remove the ramp digitally later. The shocks on a car react differently if they go off a ramp than they would if the body of the car was launched in the air with a turbo boost. It would just look wrong. Not to mention coming up with a smooth landing.

Maybe there can be a hybrid solution, where they film a real jump and then replace the launch and landings with CGI cars. But from a practical standpoint, I don't see how they can get around it.

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Post by Victor Kros » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:00 pm

In the tv series they would usually cut away and not show how the car actually landed from the Turbo Boost jumps but instead show Michael's reaction in the driver's seat. They would also cut to footage of a car landing (or miniature in some cases) from a far smaller jump then edit the shots together.

You can see evidence of this in the Knight Rider blooper reels found on youtube where they show the damage that really happened after they landed from the jump.

I'm doing my best to make sure Glen keeps the car as realistic as possible and he agrees that using too much CGI or a CGI car would ruin the suspension of disbelief. Some things we want KITT to do however will require CG regardless.

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Post by Lost Knight » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:07 pm

sarfraz wrote:...what about integrated CGI like in Batman begins. They launched a car for real in that film but only used CGI to cut and edit different jumps to make it look like one jump. I'm thinking about the batmobile jumping into the batcave as an example.

Sarfraz


Well, for Batman Begins there was very, very little CGI, but in most instances where the Tumbler was shown turbo boosting, there were many cars built for the film. Some of these cars were simply empty shells shot through cannons, such as the scene where the Tumbler flies through the waterfall and into the Bat Cave. This same method can be easily applied to Glen's film without sacrificing extra real stunt cars and avoiding CGI as much as possible.
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Post by FuzzieDice » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:30 pm

Using real stunts is costly, especially in having to rebuild or replace the cars when damaged from jumps. CGI is a cheaper alternative.

CGI is getting much better and depending on the equipment and the staff skills, they probably can make it so close to real you'd never notice the difference, unless you freeze-frame (which you won't be able to do unless it comes out on DVD ;) )

Has anyone seen the Stuart Little movies? Stuart is CGI, and they made it look pretty darn good too.

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Post by T.A.H.O.E. » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:16 pm

HEY Vic.... I STAND BEHIND YOU ON YOUR CHOICE OF POSTS...100%

Way to go....!
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Post by Shapeshifter » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:54 am

From Victor, earlier in this post:

'I don't believe you need an original cast to make a remake movie successful, you just need a strong plot that keeps the spirit of the original source material in tact. If you go too far with extreme changes or darker in subject matter, you run the risk of creating something that is its predecessor in name only.
This is what Universal is planning to do with the proposed Knight Rider tV series'

From the review of the Universal TV script by Merrick at Aint it Cool:

'The one element I find most agreeable about this script: it’s perfectly happy to be "fun", never thinks too highly of itself, shows a vast respect for its source material while gently nudging it into a different decade…different century…different millennia...'

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...

Post by tharpdevenport » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:46 am

Tell Glen we'd love to have him post here. :D
And when things appeared to get better, they got worse, and everyday was a day to cry.

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Post by Victor Kros » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:14 pm

Shapeshifter you're obviously a studio plant, so what is your point? I know Merrick very well and I can tell he's not taking sides in this Knight Rider Movie vs. Knight Rider TV show fiasco. Without seeing the script or him revealing certain details its not possible to fairly judge what direction the show plans to go in, he's giving one piece of a larger puzzle.

Glen plans to make his own response to this mess a very public one quite soon, keep your eye on the trades.

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Post by Shapeshifter » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:36 pm

I think "my point" is obvious. The statement I quoted from you is directly contradicted by the facts. After all, you're a big "facts vs speculation" guy, maybe you should keep your speculations to yourself. And, I'm not a studio plant. I just know a little more than the average guy about the TV pilot. I know that there are well-meaning, talented people working hard to bring a great update of the series to TV. I would think you would be completely behind that, as it cannot but help the Knight Rider brand you so obviously care about. In the final analysis, no one is going to care about the creative team behind the show, only that it's quality.

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Post by Lost Knight » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:23 pm

This is beginning to feel like a divorce and the Knight Rider fans are the kids caught in the middle. While I can't speak for all fans, I can say that I am looking forward to both incarnations of the franchise and it doesn't mean I'm more loyal to one or the other. As fans, we've been stuck with nothing but vague rumors for years, and it finally appears that the franchise is coming back in a big way in all forms. I understand the creative forces involved have their issues (understandably). And I'm not saying this is what has been going on, but I also think it's necessary to mention that it wouldn't be fair to impose or imply that fans should be taking sides, if things were to escalate to that point.
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Post by FuzzieDice » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:52 pm

Well said Lost Knight! You hit the nail on the head.

As a lowly fan that knows little to nothing (more than likely far less than most fans, as I don't often have time to keep up with everything), I find it to rather disappointing when there's in-fighting and political this or that going on behind the scenes. I could care less who's gonna sue who for what, or who hates who or who wants to out-do who or whatever the case is.

The only thing I could care a bit about is to see the final finished product(s). And if they don't happen, so be it. No fault of mine. If they do happen, and I like it, I'll watch, buy a licensed product or two as a souvenier/keepsake to add to my collection and enjoy the Knight Rider story and ideas.

But seriously, I'm just a fan. I'm only in it to be entertained. If it doesn't entertain me, I go enjoy something else. How it gets from idea to screen is not going to be any concern of mine any longer. Heck, I just want to enjoy the show. That's all.

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Post by Victor Kros » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:03 pm

Shapeshifter,

I'm in support of the movie, the franchise that Glen conceived and he worked very hard to build. So yes, I am in his corner because it's his creation and it should be handled the way he wishes to handle it.

Universal has known Glen intended to make a movie of Knight Rider and they knowingly chose to compete with it.

You wouldn't want someone going through and editing your posts, changing their meaning and giving it a "fresh" feel just because they can do it without your consent would you?

Contrary to your claims, you're creating uneccessary conflict and I will not fall into that trap. You're in support of the TV series, and I am in support of Glen's movie. That is fine.

Based upon the content you've provided, I still am not convinced you are not a studio plant or better yet in support of Universal/NBC because you're employed or involved with them in some manner but that will remain my opinion.

Let me restate, because I wasn't clear about this earlier. The writer for the NBC pilot is Dave Andron, that is correct, and verifiable through the original Variety article of Sept. 27th. The script that is for sale, based on the description given by the seller, is probably the same one I read a few days ago. But, Dave Andron had no idea that someone was trying to sell it, and is doing everything he can to have it removed. It does not do him (nor NBC) any good to have an preliminary draft of the script floating around. Unfortunately, in this day of electronic files, it's easier than ever to steal someone's intellectual property.


I just find it circumstantial that you just so happen to pop out of no where on here and start posting right after the NBC/Universal script (PDF) was leaked on ebay to respond to it and then go on to essentially confirm it could be legitament. Then you even went on to explain that you've read the script prior to its release online days earlier in your third "clarification" post.

As for facts vs. speculation, facts have been about the feature film, the Knightcon 07 video, and garnering support for Glen not the TV series and I have never claimed to have all the facts on the tv series. Don't cite my posts unless you present them in their entire context.

I have voiced my opinion about it and what I'd expect but I have never said the show will be exactly this way and that way.

Lost Knight and FuzzieDice have the right idea. It's obvious these two franchises are going to wind up in competition with one another and in the end fans will decide whether they want to let them co-exist or if one of them will triumph over the other.

I'm only in it to be entertained. If it doesn't entertain me, I go enjoy something else. How it gets from idea to screen is not going to be any concern of mine any longer. Heck, I just want to enjoy the show. That's all.


That's what matters.

=VK=

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:10 pm

If I had to make a choice, I would rather see Glen Larson's movie than Universal's TV series. However, I think it's a little unfair to vilify Universal in this situation.

Universal has been trying to bring Knight Rider back as a series for years. YEARS. This new project is anything BUT new. We first heard about it as far back as 2001:

http://www.knightridermovie.com/misc/cn ... plays.html

Hasselhoff had been working with Universal for quite some time to bring Knight Rider back, but eventually Universal passed on The Hoff's ideas. And in spite of the all the publicity last month's announcement made, that was NOT the first time we heard about the latest incarnation of the Knight Rider TV project. Back in May, Variety listed several old TV series which were being revitalized:

"What distinguishes most of the current crop of fantasy-friendly shows is that they seem to be keeping the geek factor to a minimum. Characters and relationships seem to be more important that inventing a complicated new universe of sci-fi babble...In this respect, ("Chuck" co-creater Josh Schwartz) and the nets seem to be going back to the future, putting a better-written spin on 1970s and '80s escapist shows such as "Fantasy Island," "Voyagers," "Knight Rider" and the original "Bionic Woman.""
- Variety, May 17, 2007

The idea that Universal suddenly wants to remake Knight Rider just to compete with Glen Larson's project doesn't make sense in terms of what we've seen in entertainment news over the past 5 years. Maybe Glen's project nudged NBC's schedule a bit, but just how many years was NBC supposed to wait?

I say, let the Studio Lawyers fight things out amongst themselves. But I don't see any reason why Knight Rider fans can't support one project or the other or both.

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Post by Victor Kros » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:24 pm

Your link refers to the now defunct Revolution Studios movie. I disagree with you that NBC/Universal has always had plans to revive the series, they tried to do that with Knight Rider 2000 and TKR, both failed.

Last and most important with respects to Bionic Woman, it is considered one of the biggest failures on TV losing its viewing audience ratings by 30% by its second episode.

In my opinion on a film front Universal is creatively bankrupt. All they can do is rehash what's already been done (tv show remakes, sequels, etc) and hope for the best.

Whether you wish to believe it or not, Universal did this TV series because they knew Glen was making a movie and wouldn't sign with them. They called his office and told him if he didn't sign with them, they would make a TV series to compete with him and derail his motion picture plans with TWC.

It's about egos and it's about money and that's all I will say further on this subject.

=VK=

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:43 pm

victor kros wrote:Your link refers to the now defunct Revolution Studios movie. I disagree with you that NBC/Universal has always had plans to revive the series, they tried to do that with Knight Rider 2000 and TKR, both failed.


Hasselhoff tends to talk in grandiose terms at times, but there were plans at various times (and at various levels of seriousness I'm sure) for a TV series, the Revolution Studios movie, and even a cartoon.

Regardless, my main point still stands: fans on this board should not be made to feel guilty for supporting Universal's efforts.

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Post by Skav » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:44 pm

I echo Lost Knight's point in that I look forward to both the series and movie.

If the TV series ends up being a mess then think about the fact that it cannot possibly be any more worse than the incarnations that came after the original series.

People may say that things CAN get worse what with KITT turning into a transformer but KR2000, KR2010 and TKR already strayed too far from the original concept so whatever happens now can only be an improvement.

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Post by d_osborn » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:26 am

victor kros wrote:Glen plans to make his own response to this mess a very public one quite soon, keep your eye on the trades.

I was hoping he would do something. It seems that NBC is moving ahead pretty fast with this thing... already looking at casting and location scouting. I hate to see ANYTHING rushed through production. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled. Keep us informed as much as possible, VK! Although the NBC script review wasn't nearly as bad as I feared, I'm still rooting for the theatrical feature...

IF the NBC project hits first, can we expect to see Glen's new KR is some other form? Sayyyyy... graphic novel? ...and my final question... something I don't think has been touched on... why didn't Glen take his project to NBC/Univ. first? Did he, and they initially pass on it? Was it a creative control issue?

Is it just me, or is it SWEET that we have people involved in both current projects posting on the boards? Most fan sites don't get NEAR this level of interactivity with productions! 8) FEED US INFO, GUYS... WE CRAVE IT! 8)

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Post by Victor Kros » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:11 pm

There will be a Knight Rider feature film by Glen in the near future regardless if whether NBC/Universal makes their TV pilot or not or who releases what first.

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Post by JimmyPSHayes » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:30 pm

I have to agree that it's great to have representation from both projects here in the forums. It shows that fans aren't being ignored.
-I really hope that BOTH projects will get off the ground and be successful. The more the better!!
-I deal on a daily basis with licensed properties. While it's definitely NOT Hollywood scale, I know how touchy companies can be with their properties.
-The only thing I don't understand is that why Mr. Larson has stuck with the Weinstein company. I went to their website and Knight Rider seems like the LAST movie that they'd have interest in. Granted, I'm not a big movie-goer, but the only movie I've heard of from their website is the Halloween remake. Wouldn't Glenn have a better chance at a studio that makes more blockbusters like Paramount or Warner Brothers? It seems to me that KR isn't exactly Weinstein "material". Plus, haven't they been stringing him along for quite a while now?
-Let's face it. A Knight Rider movie is going to be a big summer action blockbuster. NOT an art-house picture like the ones that they make.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:36 pm

d_osborn wrote: It seems that NBC is moving ahead pretty fast with this thing... already looking at casting and location scouting. I hate to see ANYTHING rushed through production.


This is the kind of negative buzz I think we need to be careful of. How is NBC's project being rushed? What do you think the life cycle of a TV production is normally?

Although some epic feature films can take years to produce, they're usually done in less than a year. TV projects are on a much faster schedule. I don't see anything that suggests that this project is being rushed. What I DO see is that NBC hired one of the hottest film producers from this summer (Doug Liman, Bourne Ultimatum) to be in charge of the TV movie. They could have gone with a no-name executive producer to save money and to rush things to air. Instead, they went him someone who has an excellent track record for telling action-adventure stories.

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Post by Lost Knight » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:26 pm

victor kros wrote:In my opinion on a film front Universal is creatively bankrupt. All they can do is rehash what's already been done (tv show remakes, sequels, etc) and hope for the best.


It's not just Universal who's creatively bankrupt, it's most of Hollywood. And this is precisely why I wasn't crazy about the direction Glen wanted to take the movie in, at first. However, this is not to say that I don't have an open mind about it; I certainly do and will be one of the first in line to see it. In fact, based on the recent news about the television series, since NBC Universal is making it a continuation, I'm now glad Glen is making the movie a reboot. It would be more difficult for fans to accept two continuations as opposed to one continuation and one reimagining. (Not unlike Batman [1989] and Batman Begins [2005].) And if one flops, it will be more clear that the other will have no affiliation with it other than the name Knight Rider.
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Post by d_osborn » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:04 pm

There will be a Knight Rider feature film by Glen in the near future regardless if whether NBC/Universal makes their TV pilot or not or who releases what first.

Great to hear! I was afraid it was a "first one to the finish line" thing. I read a great quote the other day, "TV: a medium.. so named because it is neither rare nor well done." That sums up my thoughts on the matter. I like features... so sue me.

This is the kind of negative buzz I think we need to be careful of. How is NBC's project being rushed? What do you think the life cycle of a TV production is normally?

Can we not have opinions in this joint?! :lol: Please take note that I didn't say the NBC project was being rushed... no more that usual, anyway. The "I hate to see rushed projects" was an afterthought--not meant to be negative towards NBC. They ARE hitting the ground runnning on it, though. Trust me... I"m well versed in the development process of feature and TV productions. My thoughts on the NBC project are actually quite the opposite... it sounds cool, so far. Can't wait to hear more about what Larson has on the plate...
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Post by knightendo_phil » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:33 am

Oh my word, I haven't been on here in yyeeeaaarrrssss!!! News of a promising new TV series has brought me back... to a whole load of negativity!!

I'm with Michael on this one I have to say (although I know there's no "sides" here you understand) as the TV series has been in development at Universal for some time. Yes, maybe the movie has kickstarted it so we're getting it put into high gear earlier, but that's a good thing in my eyes. Reading the script review I am eagerly awaiting this new series, and can't want to see it (just hope it gets a decent channel over here in Blighty, unlike Jericho being hidden away on ITV4!!).

Maybe we'd prefer if Glen was on board, maybe not, but hey we could have two completely different Knight Rider's, since when was that a bad thing? Also, a completely new crew never hurt Battlestar. Look at the fan outrage that came out when it was announced, and look at how it has surpassed all expectations! Also, the KR show we know was created by Glen, yes, but developed by someone else... more on that below.

I have to say to you "Victor Kros", IF you do indeed work for Glen Larson then I feel sorry for him. You have approached this matter in an extremely unprofessional manner, and if you are a member of his team I personally feel that you are only damaging Glen's dreams by the way you have talked on here. You say that Universal are only trying to damage Glen's movie project and that what they are doing is basically wrong. You're right, if that was what they were doing... but on here that is exactly what you trying to do to their project! A better response would be to ask the fans for support and concentrate on discussing the movie, not railroading the series.

From what I've heard of this new show it sounds like the first proper Knight Rider attempt since the original. Now, I'm not picking sides, but a few points here to consider:

- This series has been in Universal's mind for a while now, and back in May it was reported as a definite up-and-coming project. The movie MAY have speeded it up, but this series is NOT just a backlash against it.

- Universal has seen that old properties can be done properly (Battlestar, Transformers, even Casino Royale can be an example here to a certain degree) and won't be in a rush to make the same mistakes as before with KR2000, 2010 and TKR. (And I've heard nothing but good news about Bionic Woman's ratings, but if they have fallen so badly, that has nothing to do with the creative team behind this new KR.)

- Universal are throwing a helluva lot of producing weight behind this series. Doug Liman (even though I'm not a fan of the Bourne films, I appreciate their reliance on "real" effects, and I've enjoyed numerous other films of his) is not the kind of producer to get involved in a "backlash" project, or a project he doesn't believe in.

- Now, I love Glen's work, and respect the man greatly but you gotta remember something here... Yes the original was created by Glen, but he left it after only 13 episodes to make The Fall Guy for Fox. The Knight Rider that developed for the rest of it's three and a half years, was mainly thanks to Robert Foster, not Glen. Proof if any were needed that there are others who can care for the KR franchise.

- KR2000 did not fail because of Hasselhoff. He states quite clearly in his autobiography (very entertaining, recommended by the way :D) that he signed on and then everything changed, He HATED the film, hated the script, the fact KITT was dismantled, Michael was burnt-out and Devon was killed. He didn't even like the character of Shawn (correct?) the woman who was meant to take over. Originally it was meant to be the occassional KR movie simply as additional adventures of Michael and KITT, and that's what he signed up for.

- TKR was horrible... but who was the Exec Producer? Glen Larson. He may not have had that much of a creative input, but he was still willing to attach his name to it, so he couldn't have thought it was that bad. Yes, that last bit may be speculation, but if you look at the credits he IS listed as the EP.

- One movie or two.... or at least 22 stories per year?

- The "script review" IS based on the new TV movie script, not any previous movie script, that much is apparent. I for one love the fact that it pays a lot of respect to the original series as created by Glen and developed by Bob, and hopefully it'll update it whilst still feeling liek "Knight Rider".

Now, part of me hopes Glen goes ahead with his movie still, after all I've been excited about it for a long time. But a film and tv series both at the same time but different takes completely... well, it may not work but hey who knows? I'd prefer it if Glen came on board the series to be honest as co-developer, or even if it was a more hands-off approach as a co-producer like with Battlestar, at least he'd be on-board. I know that that probably won't happen, they have their team in place who seem to be doing a good job so far and Glen won't want to... anyway for me, from what I've heard of the tv show it sounds great and the team behind it sound like they will do us proud, and I wish them all the best of luck! It may flop, it may be a hit, time will tell... and time will tell how the movie goes too...

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