Board Business: Kitt children thread

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Board Business: Kitt children thread

Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:14 pm

I have a dissenting opinion regarding the “KITT Children” thread. I don’t like continuing a discussion after Neil closes it down, but since we are on a new board I think it gives us a chance to re-evaluate how the board is run.

For starters, I realize TT Snim was just fooling around with the pie jokes, but it was very clear that knightimmortal was NOT fooling around. So blowing off her comments like that was disrespectful. If someone disagrees with a moderator, that’s fine, but you should at the very least respect the position.

That being said, I believe TT is being treated unfairly as a scapegoat. He has been called a “spaz”, “sick bastard” and “perverted”, yet he was being encouraged by some of the biggest supporters in the fan fic community:

Trekie386: "I'm liking the ideas I'm hearing in this topic!"
KOSI: "Decides that Beth, Babs, and Snim are an awesome combination"
Soul Sista: "Come on,you two and go ahead and write that story. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA'!"
Janeway: "go ahead, give your warped, evil muses free reign, I dare ya.."

These 4 people have all been great contributors to the board, but shouldn’t we hold them partly responsible for the path the thread took? My opinion is that thread was more stupid than offensive so I don’t think anyone did anything too far out of line. (Although I agree it was headed in that direction.)

TT Snim needed to be reeled in a bit with his comments towards knightimmortal. Absolutely. And personally I’d like to see his messages be a little more… focused. If someone posts something truly offensive I have no problem with the messages being deleted on the spot. But I disagree with the practice of picking out a single individual from a group of “offenders”. I also disagree with abruptly closing down the thread after some harsh name-calling without giving TT Snim a chance to respond. I don’t think he realized he was getting out of line: Keep in mind, he was being ENCOURAGED by several well-respected people on this board.

This is Neil’s board, and I respect and abide by his decisions. I am content to “agree to disagree.”

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Re: Board Business: Kitt children thread

Post by neps » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:22 pm

Well if this pink elephant must come back, here we go.

My comments towards TT Snim had nothing to do with the thread. When he went to talk about throwing pies at her and "licking" it off her face, thats where I have to draw the line. I don't think I was singling him out specifically as he was the only one who took it to that level. The discussion itself was interesting. I could see an AI being wanting to become more human (much like data on ST:TNG) but the whole birthing thing wasn't my cup of tea.

Anyway, when I say "So please take your immature perverted disrespect elsewhere, and make a contribution to the board instead of hindering it. " i am reffering to his last post.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:40 pm

I know i haven't posted in the previous thread, but let me state my opinion in this matter.

In the previous thread, The posts were referred to as "dippo retard posts" because of the topic they dealt with. While the idea of Kitt having children is pretty out there, where would KR fan fic be without creativity? Read Beth C's and Babs' Fields of Exploration, i mean, how much more creative can you get. Many consider the idea quite unique, and a lot of people on the board approved of it and actually geniunely WANTED to see a fan fic made out of it. Yeah its not some people's cup of tea, but to call posts by about 5 people retarded because of one comment is pretty ridiculous.

TT Snim's comment was a joke that went a bit out of hand. Calling him a "spaz" and "flavor of the month" is overreacting a bit. I understand his comments were disrespectful, but as someone reading it, i felt it was an attempt to fool around with KI and the rest of the board, rather then outright insult her.

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Re: Board Business: Kitt children thread

Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:51 pm

neps wrote:My comments towards TT Snim had nothing to do with the thread. When he went to talk about throwing pies at her and "licking" it off her face, post.


I didn't interpret it as a sexual remark, but rather a playful one (albeit one in poor taste). But I wholeheartedly agree that it was inappropriate so on that point I agree.

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Post by K.I.T.T » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:00 pm

Centaurus17 wrote:I


TT Snim's comment was a joke that went a bit out of hand. Calling him a "spaz" and "flavor of the month" is overreacting a bit. I understand his comments were disrespectful, but as someone reading it, i felt it was an attempt to fool around with KI and the rest of the board, rather then outright insult her.


Sorry, but you in my mind are WRONG. He/She (sorry have not looked in your details Snim) made a complete mock of Laura, and there was no need what so ever for that remark!..I am always gain for a laugh and a joke but that was a insult! in which there was just no need!!

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:08 pm

To all those involved:

I don't care if you disagree with Neil's comments in the other thread, or Scott's. I don't care if you think it was in jest, or an attempt to lighten up the community. That kind of behavior that TT Snim demonstrated was out of line, and the kind of (pardon the profanity) *?$# that you would see on a damn school yard, not on a message board. Maybe I am too sensitive. Maybe my sense of humor is a little more adult oriented, and maybe I was the one that crap was focused at, and if Mike had been pied (or worse) he would have a little bit of a reaction.

You can try to make all the mountains you want out of the molehill, Mike. There are many others in the fic community, who are well respected members of the board.... (Scott is one of them, so until you know the fic community a little more, don't comment about them,) who believe that the juvenile type of wackiness isn't all that cool. All I did was suggest that they cool it a bit. But if you want to keep throwing salt in the damn wound, go right ahead. Just because this is a new board doesn't mean that it is a free for all where moderator's respect can go out the window, nor where people can use others as showcases for laughter's benefit. You, and everybody else was told that if you have a problem with shutting down the thread, to email Neil. The rest of us humans who spent a long time ditching the playground cruelties will try to go on.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:30 pm

If you reread my message, you'll notice that at no point did I condone what TT said. In fact, I specifically said several times that he was out of line and inappropriate with his treatment of Laura.

However, my impression was that Neil closed down the thread because of the subject matter. And I'm not the only one who interpretted it that way. Apparently, I was mistaken. Neil clarified that he was responding to one specific message. And I agreed with him that it was entirely inappropriate.

No one is saying that Laura did anything wrong, nor that she shouldn't be offended. Believe me, I know what it's like to have a moderator's respect thrown out the window. But my message had nothing to do with the pie comments.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:38 pm

Then obviously you didn't read Neil's message, his message in the other thread:

Uhm yea, about that. See, Knightimmortal here is the moderator. And in the nicest way possible she asked you to cool it down a bit. And you mock her like this? Behavior like this wont be tolerated and I ask that you not do it again.


See. I am the board Administrator, and Im not asking you to stop, I'm more or less telling you to. So please take your immature perverted disrespect elsewhere, and make a contribution to the board instead of hindering it.

if you have an issue with this, please email me.


He said nothing about the rest of the message, which was where I was coming in. Neil shut it down specifically because the "humor" got out of hand.

As for the rest of the message: I think I carry some respect on some of the board, and some of the community, and I am more than entitled to not support mockery of fic. After all, there are some of us who work long, hard and extra carefully to try to keep the legends alive, and take our work fairly seriously. And it seems that a few others felt that the comments and the activity before it got a little outlandish already.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:04 pm

KI, how can you say that what happened before that was "mockery of fic"? I understand that the inappropriate remark was completely out of line, but the discussion was not a mockery of fic, but rather a light hearted brain storm. I stated this earlier, a few members on this board approved of the suggested idea, and were adding more suggestions to make it better.

Because a topic is very out there does not necessarily make it one that mocks Knight Rider. There have been many fan fics that have been extremely outrageous, but were pretty darn good due to the creativity that they brought. In my opinion, if a fan fic is creative and unique, then it is worth reading.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:04 pm

I already admitted it, I misinterpretted Neil's message. I'm sorry. But in the context of the entire thread, I don't think it's that much of stretch to see how I could make that mistake. It isn't as clear-cut as you may think.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:12 pm

Centaurus17 wrote:KI, how can you say that what happened before that was "mockery of fic"? I understand that the inappropriate remark was completely out of line, but the discussion was not a mockery of fic, but rather a light hearted brain storm. I stated this earlier, a few members on this board approved of the suggested idea, and were adding more suggestions to make it better.

Because a topic is very out there does not necessarily make it one that mocks Knight Rider. There have been many fan fics that have been extremely outrageous, but were pretty darn good due to the creativity that they brought. In my opinion, if a fan fic is creative and unique, then it is worth reading.


Because I can, or is it against the law to state my frikking opinion? It is outrageous, but a lot of us take it VERY seriously.

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Post by rusti_knight » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:14 pm

Yeah, reading comprehension is good. I think you get tested on that in high school.


knightimmortal wrote:

As for the rest of the message: I think I carry some respect on some of the board, and some of the community, and I am more than entitled to not support mockery of fic. After all, there are some of us who work long, hard and extra carefully to try to keep the legends alive, and take our work fairly seriously. And it seems that a few others felt that the comments and the activity before it got a little outlandish already.

knightimmortal



Um, yeah, that part. See, like KI said, most of us take our fic in all seriousness in an effort to make it somewhat believable and offer an escape into a different world modeled around our favorite shows. I, for one, have used the 'Kitt kid' idea...but not nearly in the slapstick way it was being thrown around. It was a real effort at making science fiction believable and creating a character. When an idea like that is thrown around the way that one was, it makes me almost sick. It makes me feel like the effort was wasted and now everybody's just going to laugh at the effort I've made because of a goober knock-off somebody else came up with.
Before you poke fun at such ideas, you might consider the impact it could have on the fic community, or the community as a whole, if such impaired plot bunnies came to maturity. Humor is good; mockery, bad.

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Re: Board Business: Kitt children thread

Post by Trekie386 » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:25 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:I have a dissenting opinion regarding the “KITT Children” thread. I don’t like continuing a discussion after Neil closes it down, but since we are on a new board I think it gives us a chance to re-evaluate how the board is run.

For starters, I realize TT Snim was just fooling around with the pie jokes, but it was very clear that knightimmortal was NOT fooling around. So blowing off her comments like that was disrespectful. If someone disagrees with a moderator, that’s fine, but you should at the very least respect the position.

That being said, I believe TT is being treated unfairly as a scapegoat. He has been called a “spaz”, “sick bastard” and “perverted”, yet he was being encouraged by some of the biggest supporters in the fan fic community:

Trekie386: "I'm liking the ideas I'm hearing in this topic!"
KOSI: "Decides that Beth, Babs, and Snim are an awesome combination"
Soul Sista: "Come on,you two and go ahead and write that story. I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA'!"
Janeway: "go ahead, give your warped, evil muses free reign, I dare ya.."

These 4 people have all been great contributors to the board, but shouldn’t we hold them partly responsible for the path the thread took? My opinion is that thread was more stupid than offensive so I don’t think anyone did anything too far out of line. (Although I agree it was headed in that direction.)

TT Snim needed to be reeled in a bit with his comments towards knightimmortal. Absolutely. And personally I’d like to see his messages be a little more… focused. If someone posts something truly offensive I have no problem with the messages being deleted on the spot. But I disagree with the practice of picking out a single individual from a group of “offenders”. I also disagree with abruptly closing down the thread after some harsh name-calling without giving TT Snim a chance to respond. I don’t think he realized he was getting out of line: Keep in mind, he was being ENCOURAGED by several well-respected people on this board.

This is Neil’s board, and I respect and abide by his decisions. I am content to “agree to disagree.”

Mike


I have no idea why I was included in this post, for I didn't in any way encourage the direction the thread was heading. I was "liking" the idea of Kitt using his intelligence to foster another AI much the way Data created Lal. Nothing more. I'm upset that you think I would encourage any childish behavior. If you notice, most of my fanfic is based on the way I see Knight Rider, and I think Kitt somehow fathering another AI is not way out there. Programs can be copied and modified and updated. Heck if KARR was KITT's brother, why can't KITT have a son? (Yeah I know in the book it was said that KARR was more an ancestor.. ) I'm glad that thread now is locked, but I in no way encouraged anything.

Oh, and as to the pic I was talking about, I was going to take my Voice Car, surround it with matchbox cars and take a digital pic. Now I'm recosidering my post. I think it would have been fun.

Beth C :cry:

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:30 pm

Beth, I agree with you, in that form, it is just fine. But that former thread was getting way outlandish with some of the things that were starting to come up, and went over the line with the final straw that was thrown out. I don't see you, in any way as being dead in the center of it.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:32 pm

A lot of people in the board have stated that other fan fics are mockable because of the fact their not as "serious" as all the other ones. Not every fan fic has to have an incredibly serious outlook to it. The only reason i state this is that a few years ago i used to write Knight Rider fan fic, but do not anymore due to many reasons. Back then, i thought the only reason to write fan fic is because it was fun, and because it felt good to bring back the characters we all love. I guess thats not the case anymore.

Serious or not serious, no one here can judge how good a fan fic is without reading it. Who's to mock that topic and that suggestion without even waiting for the fic to be finished and to actually bother reading it?

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:40 pm

You're right, but when brainstorms become public, on a board, and the ideas come out that are rather outlandish, then it is a little beyond standard sensibilities. When it is out there for public consumption, people are allowed to post their opinions, because it is public HERE. That is why most brainstorms are held off of a public board.

And around here, that is EXACTLY what fic is about. It is a frikking tribute to the show, and to use the characters. Not to make them part of some comedy, parody, or childish gesture. Yes, sometimes the greatest fics come from it, but when you see the road to get there, it actually takes away from the final product.

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Post by BabsBunny » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:40 pm

Okay lessee...

Yeah, Snim got a little too silly with KI's post, but I don't think it was scarringly insulting. Just somewhat immature. Think Animaniacs, and you've got Snim.:) I think it was just her (yeah, she's a girl) way of illustrating that everything was just in good nature and that folks needn't be too serious.

As for the concept of KITT offspring, I think the idea is a little out there, but it's not a bad idea. And having KITT turn up with a bunch of little Kittlets running around, is a weird, yet cute idea! (Beth, I still want to see that pic!:)) I don't think anyone was out to mock anyone else. It was our idea, and it's not like anyone was using that idea to shoot other ideas down.

As for taking KR seriously, some people do, some people don't. I mean, it was a form of entertainment to begin with, and bordered on sitcom anyway, as it was VERY tongue in cheek. But some people think it should be viewed one way and that's that. And that's fine. But it doesn't mean everyone has to view the show in the exact same way. And I personally don't see having a little fun with the show as degrading to it in any way.

But that's just me.. :D

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:57 pm

Yeah, well, that kind of humor just very quickly got unappreciated here.

Fan fic is supposed to be a tribute. It wasn't close to a sitcom, and if you think that, you totally missed the point, and well, everybody is in fact, entitled to their opinion. So far from what was shown in the other thread, it wasn't a cup of tea, and any fic is in fact a reflection of an entire community. A community that has struggled and fought to not be made fun of, and to be taken somewhat legitimately, rather than 'something about a stupid show from the 80's.

I am not saying that KITT having kids is a mockery. There are many ways that it can legitimately be done. (Rusti has already pulled it off in her way.) But there was a whole lot of silliness going on in that thread, and none of the rest of us brainstorm in public, because it takes away the essence of the fic. (And leaves it open for idea swiping.) All I did was suggest twice that you all take it off the board, to a place where you could definitely explore a whole lot more things. And instead, Snim decided to go over the line with comments that weren't appropriate for this board since before Snim even joined. If that is the type of humor and attitude that you and a few others approve of, and think is minor, then maybe you need to re-examine your presence here.

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Re: Board Business: Kitt children thread

Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:21 pm

Trekie386 wrote:I have no idea why I was included in this post, for I didn't in any way encourage the direction the thread was heading. I was "liking" the idea of Kitt using his intelligence to foster another AI much the way Data created Lal. Nothing more. I'm upset that you think I would encourage any childish behavior.



Hi Beth, thanks for clearing that up and I'm sorry if wrongly included you. But please understand how your comment might look in context to the rest of us:

TT Snim was the first to broach the "taboo" topic of Michael and KITT sleeping together: "Any way, Micheal goes to bed one night after saying good night to a cranky Kitt and wakes up the next morning to find a bunch of littel Kitts running around the garadge."

The very next post was yours: "I'm liking the ideas I'm hearing in this topic! It's something that's of interest to me!! " You even specifically mentioned her title "Kitt's kittens". So yes, that does look like you were encouraging the topic, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

And while on the subject of misinterpretting things, does the "pie" comment suddenly seem less threatening/offensive/perverted or whatever to everyone knowing that a woman said it?

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:25 pm

No.

I refuse to condone playground humor. I left it behind when I got the hell out of high school, and I sure as heck don't need it now.

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Re: Board Business: Kitt children thread

Post by BabsBunny » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:31 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:
TT Snim was the first to broach the "taboo" topic of Michael and KITT sleeping together: "Any way, Micheal goes to bed one night after saying good night to a cranky Kitt and wakes up the next morning to find a bunch of littel Kitts running around the garadge."



I'll be honest. I didn't see that as broaching the taboo. The first scenario that popped into my head was that Michael says goodnight to KITT in the generic sense, rather than after an interlude or something.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:35 pm

OK, I'm embarrassed now.... I guess I had my mind in the gutter worse than the rest of you! Going back and reading it again... yeah, it's not as bad as I thought. Could I make any more of a mess today?

However, I think my concepts are still sound.

Anyone know how to put a genie back in the bottle?
Anyone know how to un-ring a bell?
Anyone know where the life "UNDO" button is?

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Post by BabsBunny » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:40 pm

It's cool Mike! *huggles*:)

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Post by Trekie386 » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:45 pm

Michael Pajaro wrote:.

Anyone know where the life "UNDO" button is?

Mike


If you find it, let us know. :P

No one's gonna hold anything against you. We are all friends here and sometimes words get taken out of context or we use our own impressions to interpret them.

I for one had a bad day due to the missing of the Knight 2000 movie. So of course the rest of my day was bad.

We still love ya, Mike.

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Post by knightimmortal » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:47 pm

And we still hate Knightimmortal.

I get it.

Figures.

KI

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