Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

Archive for discussions from 2002. Please post new discussions in the appropriate forum.

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:07 pm

Ok, let me stick my nose back in here at this time, and let me provide a little bit of reality for those who got their undies in a bundle.

Skav, if you don't think that your comment wan't rude and aggressive about "It just hightens my dis-trust in this community ever since MODS were appointed!" then you need to go back to school, and learn manners. And get a hint, I am a moderator, I HAVE to read every message, every thread, and comment. You are a poster, you don't, but you seem to search out problem threads that I am trying to make points and facts in, and immediately hop in with aggressive remarks. On the average, you even jump in when the situation is already calmed, and infuriate it more. You can argue all you like, and Mike can argue right along side of you, base line, you are aggressive, and you whine a lot, and you obviously have no control of your words. And if you want to continue to blame me for everything that I state about you, that is your thing, just know, I refuse to sit around and let you kick the butt of this board and its moderators with your colorful remarks.

Now, to Mike. In your fantasy land where all is good, all is well, and all is nice, yeah, there should be no difference between moderator and poster, but obviously, this is reality, and the moderator needs to establish when they are not using their power as moderator as much as possible, because there are those people who hold the position with great acclaim and responsibility, and will follow right along, as was displayed above. It would be just like me saying 'go to my sites, I am the moderator, I command you'. It's an abuse of power, and in certain situations especially when it deals with something serious, you need to be able to distance your position as moderator from your personal reasoning as much as possible. Just like eventually, you need to work to distance your board and internet life from your real life as much as possible, even if it means taking extreme and logical measures rather than hiding from your fear and complaining about it.

But of course, since you can't even separate me without treating me like Richie, you can't even acknowledge the fact that I was trying to establish a basis for defending you, and because you and your followers can't see the larger impact of the situation, and won't even bother to talk to me about it via IM, then I can't believe that I even bothered. (Go ahead, dissect every part of this post and try to use it against me in every little way, Mike, you just took even your own definition of neutrality away from me, when even I defend you, and you don't have the common sense to see that)

Go ahead and keep right on with your sniping, griping, blaming, and steering from the original topic. You are just proving that we are more drama than content. All I tried to prove is that moderators are not all powerful, I guess that we are, and I have been missing out on an amazing opportunity.

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Post by jup » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:36 pm

> jup passes out.

...

Whenever the copywrite issues are resolved, please give it a brand new topic. Now that I have some means for funding, (someday) I'd like to just buy a copy of the book...

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Post by KRAvenger » Fri Sep 13, 2002 5:43 pm

I'm not passing out, but My head's spinning. This is what bugs me about being part of a "Community. " People can say whatever, attack Mike, attack KI, attack whomever, defend Their actions, rally people to Their cause, and claim its all for the good of the "Community." Well, I'm staying out of it, because I don't even know who the heck I should be supporting anymore.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 5:50 pm

KI, let me state my opinion, as I feel that my comments were what sparked this argument

To all who feel other wise, the fact that mike is a moderator has NOTHING to do with the fact that i am supporting him in this matter. Please get that straight.

If i felt that Mike was being unprofessional in his request, i would have never fulfilled it. If you read any of my previous posts, i have supported Mike, NOT because he is a moderator, but because he is a member of this message board. I am willing to see and understand his side of the story, unlike many others on this board who have attacked mike without letting him state his side.

I do not feel whatsoever that Mike has abused his power in any way shape or form. IMO, he has NEVER used his "moderating hat for personal gains rather then helping the board"

Again, this is only my opinion. I do not speak for or on the behalf of Mike.

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 5:55 pm

Let me make a little clear what im saying.
Mike seemed to be backing words said by Skav...Skav's rude comment which is above about us all.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skav:
<STRONG>It just hightens my dis-trust in this community ever since MODS were appointed!

Skav</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am stating that from a moderator i, (i don't know about you) would have expected more and backed what K.I said !!!!!!....but it seems to suit him fine as he saw my reply but chose to ignore it. Obviously not bothered about it at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Pajaro:
<STRONG>And another thing... I happen to appreciate Skav's comments. ***********************************************************
Thank you Skav for your patience and keeping an open mind.

Mike</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 5:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Centaurus17:
<STRONG>.

IMO, he has NEVER used his "moderating hat for personal gains rather then helping the board"

</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You need to read the post's of others and then his more carefully.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K.I.T.T:
<STRONG>
You need to read the post's of others and then his more carefully.

K.I.T.T</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have read Mike's posts as well as all the other posts in this thread as well as all the other relevant threads.

I am not that naive as to not know the difference between making a request, and an abuse of power. Please give me a little more credit then that.

Again, i am not trying to play Mike's defense lawyer in this, but i am going to stick by my previous statements.

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:06 pm

Thank you for your views, Centaurus, and basically, it had been settled, the pure fact that you stated that you had made a mis-statement and that you respect and allied with Mike was just fine.

But please note one thing: I have more than given Mike a chance to state his point of things. I have given Mike, Joe and even Richie their chances to state their cases. I have left the door wide open for Mike to defend himself. But instead of putting a final touch and put an end to this thing, they just keep going. It takes two to tango, and the dance just keeps on going, except now we have it going in three ways on one aspect, and we have created a dance floor on another.

There is only one problem, and that is recently, Mike keeps making statements that just make us question him even more as a moderator. If you want to live under a moderator that is out for himself, and not for the board, fine. Go right ahead. If you want to have a moderator who doesn't feel that he has to extend the common courteousy of telling others that he is making a personal request, rather than a moderator request, that is fine. But you are not going to get that kind of moderator out of me, because it isn't a moderator. Mike's own statements above basically have backed these statements, despite the fact that I desperately tried to make it so that he wouldn't look like that. If you want to continue to make me the bad guy just because I am attempting to look out for the board, go for it.

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:09 pm

So what are your thoughts on Mike backing Skav on his comments Centaurus??......this is what im getting at...snubbing the whole community like that and Mike agreeing...pffttt...do you agree with that also? Do you not see why im so angry?

K.I.T.T

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: K.I.T.T ]

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Post by Behemoth » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:16 pm

Hmm right I know I'm stepping in 90 minutes too late and have probably missed half a conversation, but for what it's worth I opend my mout, or as the case maybe got busy on the keyboard with my thoughts on this.

Basically Mike, what you did, it was wrong, it sucked, the main reason being that those whom you requested the e-mail from thought you were doing it in a moderative authority, which then made them feel obligated to send you the e-mail in the first place. I don't care what you say in your defence, but which ever way you look at it, it was an abuse of power.

Call yourself a moderator?? Nope I certainly don't think so, what you did was above and beyond the duty of a moderator, I did have some small amount of respect for you, but not anymore.

It's almost as if you've stabbed this community in the back, and what makes it worse is that fact you knew were doing and STILL carried on regardless to the consequences, you used you powers for personal gain, not for anything else.

Now this next staement will probably make me look like a suck up, but at this moment in time I pretty much don't care, and will standby this comment. Knightimmortal is a true moderator, always has been, always will be, she is a credit to this community.

End of rant.

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:19 pm

Its no suck up..its true and as it is!! You said what needed to be said and i 2nd that!!
K.I will stand by the community and defend it..past thread show that.
K.I.T.T

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: K.I.T.T ]

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:48 pm

When you consider that we put this discussion on hold September 11th, in an attempt to pause to reflect about what is really important in life, this "news" about the book is basically only 2 days old.

Joe and I have been emailing eachother, but for whatever reason he is not around on this board as much as I am, and there is often a one or two day delay between the messages we exchange.

If people are concerned about getting the book back in publication, it's very important that Joe and I maintain our mutual understanding, despite whatever differences we may have. So when Joe asked me if he could be the one to post his side of the story before I did, I honored that request despite being pressured to just speak my mind.

When the mass email went out, rather than jumping all over it, I waited to contact Joe to hear his perspective on it so that I can respond appropriately.

I can either fly off the handle and rant about conflicting information that people are emailing me and posting on the board, or I can get a clear picture of what's going on and give my perspective.

I want to present the board with a detailed explantion of what has been going on, but if I have to keep on responding to fires about what an abusive moderator I am I'll never get my story written.

People with an open mind will be willing to wait for a calm response from me. People who have already condemned me won't be swayed by my explanation anyway, so it won't make any difference.

I do encourage people to go over to the Knight Registries webboard:
http://knightregistries.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.pl

Some of the highlights:
"a pox on the whiny baby that is making waves"
"The one and only reason to pitch a ##### about this is selfishness"
"this moron will get this book killed"
"you have only insured that you will be the most hated person in this whole situation, not that you had that much respect to begin with."

These comments are mostly from people who have no idea what my claims are, and who haven't even seen the book. So it would nice if I could get just a little bit of slack from people on my own "home turf".

Mike

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:02 pm

"If you want to continue to make me the bad guy just because I am attempting to look out for the board, go for it. "

KI, i would NEVER want to single you out in this matter, and i hope that no one else on this board would as well. I have tremendous amount of respect for you because i know that doing the job you do as a moderator is not easy

When i supported Mike, i did not EVER go against you, so please do not feel this way

So what are your thoughts on Mike backing Skav on his comments Centaurus??......this is what im getting at...snubbing the whole community like that and Mike agreeing...pffttt...do you agree with that also? Do you not see why im so angry?

Hey KITT, why dont you think about this point before you ask me questions like those. What about you sticking up for Behemoth and siding him when he blatantly attacked a moderator in Mike.

"Its no suck up..its true and as it is!! You said what needed to be said and i 2nd that!!"

Behemoth made EXTREMELY disrespectful and rude comments to Mike, and when he did this, you suported him. But the minute Skav makes comments not even HALF as bad as those, you jump all over him. Why dont you look at your own behavior before you ask me those kinds of questions

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:03 pm

You have gotten plenty of slack on your own turf, Mike, but you keep digging your own hole with some of your comments even about those who try to give you a little bit of slack.

In addition, you talk about Joe, when you keep ignoring the other author, the one who also has to have some say in this since it is his book as well. I asked you the other night to clarify to at least me what your position was, but instead, all I got was rude answers.

If you don't want to put the fires out, then don't. It actually makes things worse anyway, go for the big one instead of the little ones.

And Centaurus, the moderators are not absolute. If people have a beef with them, we generally have asked in the past that they speak out on those beefs so they can be resolved. Moderators are not God, and we too have our faults. But when it comes to hurting the board as a whole, then nobody is safe. People are angry. People have had a long burning anger for a long time, and they are coming about to express themselves now.

Now, I do ask that we calm ourselves a little more, in presenting our cases. All of us, including Mike, are making statements that we will most likely come to regret just because our human consciences will come out later on, because the situation is continuing to grow teeth. Let's not let this take out the board again. If you are going to post in this thread, please post another post in another thread so that once again the board doesn't become all about this.

knightimmortal

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: knightimmortal ]

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:05 pm

"If you want to continue to make me the bad guy just because I am attempting to look out for the board, go for it. "

KI, i would NEVER want to single you out in this matter, and i hope that no one else on this board would as well. I have tremendous amount of respect for you because i know that doing the job you do as a moderator is not easy

When i supported Mike, i did not EVER go against you, so please do not feel this way

So what are your thoughts on Mike backing Skav on his comments Centaurus??......this is what im getting at...snubbing the whole community like that and Mike agreeing...pffttt...do you agree with that also? Do you not see why im so angry?

Hey KITT, why dont you think about this point before you ask me questions like those. What about you sticking up for Behemoth and siding him when he blatantly attacked a moderator in Mike.

"Its no suck up..its true and as it is!! You said what needed to be said and i 2nd that!!"

Behemoth made EXTREMELY disrespectful and rude comments to Mike, and when he did this, you suported him. But the minute Skav makes comments not even HALF as bad as those, you jump all over him. The fact that you support Behemoth in this to me is absurd and hypocritical. Why dont you look at your own behavior before you ask me those kinds of questions

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus17 ]

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Post by Behemoth » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:13 pm

I was speaking the truth, and in this case your damned if you do, and your damned if you don't.

You ask me if I stick by what I said today, tomrrow and I will give you this answer, whole heartedly yes.

Centaurus17 - You may not like what I say about Mike, but when we have no community, or sites left you'll know who to blame. It certainly won't be me, all I did was speak up and try to defend what was and still could be a great community, but some people it seems can't see no furthere than the end of their nose and that Mike is god, well he isn't and I feel the right thing for him to do is stand down as moderator.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:18 pm

"Basically Mike, what you did, it was wrong, it sucked, the main reason being that those whom you requested the e-mail from thought you were doing it in a moderative authority, which then made them feel obligated to send you the e-mail in the first place. I don't care what you say in your defence, but which ever way you look at it, it was an abuse of power."

Let me ask you something Behemoth. Who do you think was the first to respond to Mike's request. I was, and if you feel that i sent mike that email becuase i was obliged to, then you have not read a single post of mine on this thread. I do not feel that Mike is god, no one here does. IMO, just going out and making comments such as the ones who made were out of line. If you had an issue you wanted to discuss, the proper method is to state those issues to mike, not insult him, which is what you did.

Again, this is only my opinion.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus17 ]

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Centaurus17:
<STRONG>[b"Its no suck up..its true and as it is!! You said what needed to be said and i 2nd that!!"

Behemoth made EXTREMELY disrespectful and rude comments to Mike, and when he did this, you suported him. But the minute Skav makes comments not even HALF as bad as those, you jump all over him. The fact that you support Behemoth in this to me is absurd and hypocritical. Why dont you look at your own behavior before you ask me those kinds of questions

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus17 ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Behemoth made bad comments to Mike !!! so you don't care for the community at all, meaning all of us!!!!!!! all members!!!!! I agree with behemoth yes!! i stick behind the board and i will make my point heard when the community's name is trashed through the mud!!! i will stand up for the board unlike some others!!!!!
Also there are two people making the book Mike!!!

K.I.T.T

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K.I.T.T:
<STRONG>

Behemoth made bad comments to Mike !!! so you don't care for the community at all, meaning all of us!!!!!!! all members!!!!! I agree with behemoth yes!! i stick behind the board and i will make my point heard when the community's name is trashed through the mud!!! i will stand up for the board unlike some others!!!!!
Also there are two people making the book Mike!!!

K.I.T.T</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, relax, getting angry and out of conrol is going to get us no where. Second, do not tell me that i do not care about the board and its members. That is an ignorant statement that could not be furthur from the truth.

By defending Behemoth, you said that you were making your point heard and stick behind it.

Its funny that when other members try to do the exact same thing, you feel it is wrong and make a huge fuss about it.

By backing Behemoth in this matter, you are showing support to someone who feels that it is necessary to insult and trash someone in order to make a point. If Behemoth feels that the board is in jeopardy, he can adress his issues in a calm way, without making any of the comments that he made. If you support his behavior, then that tells me that YOU are the one who does not care about the members of this board.

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:39 pm

Hold it a minute, hold it right there.

Ok, I am going to step in as a moderator right here, right now.

We do not persecute others for other's opinions. We make our statements, but we are not into attacking around here. That defeats the purpose of conversations. Centaurus, KITT, Behemoth, you have had your say, now it is time to stop attacking each other, or you are going to do much worse. Now you either comment on the situation, without attacking other posters, or you don't say it at all. If you have views about Mike, or me, or anybody else, state them, don't attack other's beliefs about the their convictions in this board.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:44 pm

KI, i agree with you on this one, but let me ask you something. You made teh following statement at Skav.

"Skav, if you don't think that your comment wan't rude and aggressive about "It just hightens my dis-trust in this community ever since MODS were appointed!" then you need to go back to school, and learn manners."

You stated his comments were rude and aggresive, which is essentially what i am doing. I felt Behemoth's comments to Mike were insulting and harsh. I was NEVER trying to attack Behemoth or KITT in this matter.

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:48 pm

Ok i hear you K.I
Im not going to continue this argument i have said it too many times now.
I apologize for my anger.


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Post by Centaurus17 » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:51 pm

Ditto on that one KITT

I do not want to continue to fight on this matter, and if i have angered or offended anyone by my comments then i am truly sorry.

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Post by KRAvenger » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightimmortal:
<STRONG>You have gotten plenty of slack on your own turf, Mike, but you keep digging your own hole with some of your comments even about those who try to give you a little bit of slack.

In addition, you talk about Joe, when you keep ignoring the other author, the one who also has to have some say in this since it is his book as well. I asked you the other night to clarify to at least me what your position was, but instead, all I got was rude answers.

If you don't want to put the fires out, then don't. It actually makes things worse anyway, go for the big one instead of the little ones.

And Centaurus, the moderators are not absolute. If people have a beef with them, we generally have asked in the past that they speak out on those beefs so they can be resolved. Moderators are not God, and we too have our faults. But when it comes to hurting the board as a whole, then nobody is safe. People are angry. People have had a long burning anger for a long time, and they are coming about to express themselves now.

Now, I do ask that we calm ourselves a little more, in presenting our cases. All of us, including Mike, are making statements that we will most likely come to regret just because our human consciences will come out later on, because the situation is continuing to grow teeth. Let's not let this take out the board again. If you are going to post in this thread, please post another post in another thread so that once again the board doesn't become all about this.

knightimmortal

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: knightimmortal ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

KI, I've gotta ask one thing here- If You've given Richie ample opportunity to discusss His side of things, then Where the heck is He? We've heard several times from his brother, and most of Us got an email from Him, but there's been no official discussion on this board. Have You lifted His suspension, or what? It's not like himk to remain so quiet on this board, where He's usually so vocal.

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Centaurus17:
<STRONG>KI, i agree with you on this one, but let me ask you something. You made teh following statement at Skav.

"Skav, if you don't think that your comment wan't rude and aggressive about "It just hightens my dis-trust in this community ever since MODS were appointed!" then you need to go back to school, and learn manners."

You stated his comments were rude and aggresive, which is essentially what i am doing. I felt Behemoth's comments to Mike were insulting and harsh. I was NEVER trying to attack Behemoth or KITT in this matter.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because:
It is my job as a moderator to point out that people are attempting to be too aggressive, especially when it is a comment that is directed at the board, and the moderators which are representatives of the board rather than a singular person.

knightimmortal

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