Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

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Sorry to hear about the unofficial guide

Post by KRAvenger » Tue Sep 10, 2002 11:53 pm

Well, as one of the few(?) people who actually OWN the book, Maybe our copies will be that much more valuable, because any subsequent publications will be somewhat altered.In terms of pleasureable value, I'd have to say that mine has gone down because of this. And once again, I find Myself censoring any further commentary on the subject.

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Sorry to hear about the unofficial guide

Post by David Whiteheart » Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:05 am

I got the email as well where Richie wanted every one to post this to this site and Knight Registries:
As fans of the series who want to support Knight Rider and Joe Huth and Richie Levine, authors of Knight Rider Legacy, the Unofficial Guide to the Knight Rider Universe we find what Mr. Pajaro is doing as self serving and not in the best interests of the community. We ask that whatever issues Mr. Pajaro has with the authors that he try to work it out, rather then make us all suffer a loss of what is a fantastic book.

Now I can see both sides of the story when it comes to TKR. I liked the show, granted it wasn't KIIT and Mike but they at least TRIED to keep the memory alive. I can also understand where Mike is coming from as well. Some idiot stole the picture I had of the KITT show car that I had scanned in from a 20 year old car show magazine, and had to dress it up like Earnhardt's car and put Earnhardt beside of it. It was a disgrace to Earnhardt's memory and what he meant to the sport whether you loved him or loved to hate him. Taking the picture was wrong and I would have been okay with it if he hadn't disgraced the show and Earnhardt in the process. He did do a hell of a great graphics job on the car, but that was the only good thing about it.

Is the book licensed by Universal or has Universal given their nod of approval for the book, because I know that Mike has a disclaimer on his site that says that his site has nothing to do with Universal and/or the shows?

Dave

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Sorry to hear about the unofficial guide

Post by Dave Knight » Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:08 am

I just picked mine up from Barnes and Noble after waiting a month to get it. Im very impresed and im proud to have it in with my KR stuff. Good Job guys [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Sorry to hear about the unofficial guide

Post by ronlevine69 » Wed Sep 11, 2002 12:17 am

Just to let everyone know, I am Richie's brother and he has asked that I give him a voice in this dispute. I think that is only fair considering he contributed 50% of the book, something that many seem to forget, including Mike Pajaro.

When I conduct business for my hotel, for example, if there are 2 partners I approach both. Even if that other partner does not like me, I act like an adult and try to work out the problem. I do not single one of them out, ask them to work out a deal and leave the other partner out. That is bad business practice as most of you know. This is exactly what is happening here. Richie's mass email was an attempt to let people know that he has a say to.

This dispute can damage the community. From what he has told me Richie has never liked Mike and vice versa. Honestly that should not interfere with what needs to be done.

From what I am told Mike never once emailed Richie and Joe together perferring to work on one partner rather then the other. I admit Richie can be high strung and persistant but he would never destroy something that two individuals put their time and money into. It is not selfish to defend that which you worked hard for. I have seen what Mike disputes and Richie and Joe will of course have the same material as Mike. I have seen the copies of material given to Richie and Joe of the summaries and the trivia, the Team Knight Rider Bible as well as other things given to them with permission of Rick Copp and David Goodman. Of course there will be simularities. Does that mean Mike needs to throw the words "copyright infringement" at every one or can he handle it civily without threatning to stop the book?
IUniverse I have been told has a standard practice of pulling a book out of distribution if there is a conflict in order for both sides to answer to the conflict in the case of reprint.
Richie did not intentionally send that email to cause conflict, but to express to the community what was really going on. He has the right to inform you, the purchaser of what is going on. Joe's name was on that email to and you need to respect it came from both of them, not just one.

I won't get into why you dislike Richie, I am here to defend a book I think is fantastic.

I would like to comment on something Mike has said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
Let me say this about Joe Huth:
Of all the people who are choosing to discuss this issue, Joe has been among the friendliest, most professional, and even most helpful. The two of us are pretty much polar opposites in terms of our positions, yet our email messages have been courteous and polite. I will even go far as to say he has been more polite than I have. I think that is partially because Joe acknowledges there is some truth to my claims, but more importantly because that's who Joe IS. I think of Joe as someone trying to make good out of a bad situation.

If Joe and I can exchange friendly messages, there's no reason why this board can't as well.

Mike
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Mike needs to let all the fustration of dealing with Richie go. I think he needs to talk to both authors and not just one. You are right Mike, the board can. However it is hypocritical to say that everyone else can but you can't email Richie. To this day Richie says that on this issue Mike kept constantly emailing Joe Huth but made no attempt to email the other partner,Richie. How can you fault Richie for being mad?

Please Mike contact Richie, talk on instant messanger on aol. You may be right, but Richie has told me he has a proposal to offer you. Hear him out. He deserves the right to settle the situation, regardless of whether you hate him or not.

Get to know Richie, he is not a bad person. By the way just for the record, the book being 'Unofficial' means that it has nothing to do with Universal, either, but both authors have a legal copyright under an unofficial guide standpoint.

Thank you and I urge all of you to support this fantastic book.

Ronald Levine

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Sorry to hear about the unofficial guide

Post by Johnathan Kent » Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:02 pm

as someone who has had their copyrighted work infringed upon and decided NOT to pursue, I think instead of laying blame with Mike, Or Joe, the right(& HOnest!!)thing to do would be to permit them to resolve this issue. Now I do have a question? Is and will this book be available in Print(as in an actual book)? And if so, where can I purchase the book, since the only KR memorbilia is some of the Columbia House Videos. If anyone including the authors of this book wish to e-mail me, feel free!

Charles Edward Untz III

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Sorry to hear about the unofficial guide

Post by Skav » Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:13 pm

Basically, Charles, it would be from various bookstore websites and Amazon stock it too.

Yes, it is an actual book!

I was about to order mine when I heard the news of the dispute.

Bummer!

Hope it all gets resolved soon.

Skav

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:06 pm

This message has been completely altered.

I asked people to forward me a copy of a mass email that went out regarding the Knight Rider Legacy book. I received several copies (thank you all very much!) so if you are just reading this message now there is no need to send me a copy.

And now, for your reading pleasure, the soap opera continues...

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Pajaro ]

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Post by ronlevine69 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:31 pm

I just wanted to let everyone know via Richie that the email was not sent to Mike for obvious reasons as he has not shown support for the book and was the cause of the problems. It would defeat the purpose considering that Mike is the cause of the problem at the moment.

Richie also wanted me to direct you to this thread on the Knight Registries board where other people continue to provide feedback on Mike and there feelings about this book.
http://knightregistries.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=knightr01&Post=2854&Idle=45&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=

I urge Mike to contact both Richie and Joe together. I think that is the best solution. To date Richie nor Joe have gotten an email discussing the matter nor has Mike responsed to me.

I look forward to hearing what Mike has to say on the matter and what both authors can do to resolve it.

Best regards.

Ronald Levine

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Post by Centaurus17 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:32 pm

Ok, Mike

I forwarded the email to ya. Good Luck with this whole situation and i hope everything works out for you.

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Post by ronlevine69 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:35 pm

I suggest that no one forward this email to Mike. If Mike is concerned about what the email said then Richie has advised me that he will be more then willing to set up a time and talk to Joe so that all 3 can get the matter resolved.

If Richie and Joe wanted Mike to be in on the email they would have sent it to Mike. Please respect both authors and do not help Mike continue to ignore a resolution to the situation.

Ronald Levine

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Post by Centaurus17 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:43 pm

Ronald

I see what point youre making, and partially i do agree with it.

While i may not know the details of this situation, i merely responded to a request that was made. I am not going to blame Mike, or attack him on this situation without knowing both sides of the story. Mike is a moderator of this board. As a poster of this board, I feel that if Mike as a moderator makes a request, i am willing to honor that. I dont feel that by doing this, I am taking sides on the matter or leaning towards one specific person.

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Post by knightimmortal » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:59 pm

Ok, I think that something needs to be cleared up here.

If Mike is using his power as a moderator to make a request like this that deals with a personal situation, then he is in fact abusing his power.

I do not believe that Mike made this request as a moderator, and nor should anybody respond to this because he is a moderator. If he did, then that is a gross abuse of power. If you want to respond, do it out of allegance to Mike as a poster, not a moderator.

Don't give us power that can endanger the whole board, that is not what moderators are supposed to be about.

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Post by Centaurus17 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 11:07 pm

KI

i don't think that Mike was out of line in making this request. He wrote concerning an email that was sent to who knows how many people regarding him. That is not a position that someone would want to be put in.

As far as my allegiance to mike as a moderator...Let me clear this up as what i typed before is quite misleading

I merely stated that mike is a moderator and that as a poster i do feel a certain loyalty to him

I would feel the same way for anyone else on this board, regardless whether they are a moderator or not.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Thu Sep 12, 2002 11:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightimmortal:
<STRONG>Ok, I think that something needs to be cleared up here.

If Mike is using his power as a moderator to make a request like this that deals with a personal situation, then he is in fact abusing his power.

I do not believe that Mike made this request as a moderator, and nor should anybody respond to this because he is a moderator. If he did, then that is a gross abuse of power. If you want to respond, do it out of allegance to Mike as a poster, not a moderator.

Don't give us power that can endanger the whole board, that is not what moderators are supposed to be about.

knightimmortal</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was a personal request.

Mike

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Post by knightimmortal » Thu Sep 12, 2002 11:11 pm

Centaurus,

I did not imply that Mike was out of line by doing what he did, I implied that if Mike did it as a moderator, it is improper. You need to show a little more care about your words when you talk about allegances to moderators. After all, you are talking to the other one, and if you feel that you can't have your own opinion, your own freedom of opinion because we are moderators, then in fact, you are going against everything that we, as moderators have been trying to strive for. Do it because you want to, not because Mike or I are moderators.

knightimmortal

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Post by Centaurus17 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 11:18 pm

KI, i apologize if my previous statements were improper. I agree with you completely in your statement that an opinion should not be influenced by the fact that their you are Mike are moderators

That was never the point i was trying to make. I stated this before, i dont care whether it is Mike, you, or anyone else on this board. If anyone makes a request that i feel that i am able to fulfill, then i will try my best to do it.

The fact that i wrote "if Mike as a moderator makes a request, i am willing to honor that" might as well have been, if Mike as a poster makes a request....

I hope you see what i am trying to say. Again, i apologize if i have offended anyone in this.

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Post by ronlevine69 » Thu Sep 12, 2002 11:19 pm

What deeply concerns me is that Mike won't deal with me directly. I would happily give him my # here in PA and speak on behalf of my brother. I am following this thread and
want you to be aware of two things:

Mike has admitted to making his claim of copyright infringement by taking pages off of the Iuniverse site in the Team Knight Rider section in the letter sent to the publisher. That means Mr. Pajaro used the authors genorosity against them to make his arguement.

Mike has also intended there are further copyright infrigements. On behalf of Richie, can Mike please indicate the entire case? Instances were provided but Mike stated that these were examples in his letter. This lack of communication is preventing the situation from being resolved.

Mike from what I see you have a great website. Let me try to be your mediator. I am proud of my brother and just want to see the book continue to flourish. As a moderator you need to address this concern. Richie may be banned but he should not be silenced.

Feel free to email me. I am going to sleep now, I have had a long day. But when I wake up in the morning I hope to see an email in my box from Mike with a chance to rectify this situation.

We are all adults here. Let us resolve this now. Right now it strikes me odd that you can not respond to me directly. If you need confirmation that this is Richie's brother I am more then happy to give it.

No more personal requests as moderator Mike, keep it to email. That is what you forced my brother to do when you banned him. Respect your own rules, he played by them.

Ronald Levine

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Ronald Levine ]

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Post by Skav » Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:08 am

Sorry, KI, but I disagree. He was being professional, in requesting a copy of the email that was sent out,being the fact, no matter wot anyone says, its a chain email, and he , above all, considering the fuss is about him and the authors of the book, he should have been given a copy of the email.

He IS a moderator and I am highly disappointed in the fact this has not happened.

It just hightens my dis-trust in this community ever since MODS were appointed!

Skav

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Post by knightimmortal » Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:54 am

First of all, Skav, I know that you would disagree with me no matter what.

If you had read it instead of jumping all over me like you have a habit of doing, you would see that I was making a point that if Mike was making this request as a moderator, then he is abusing his power. It is about him, his actions, and his need for an email. If I told you to jump off of a cliff, would you do it just because I was a moderator? He made the statement that it is a personal request. It was in response to Centaurus 17 who made an issue out of mentioning Mike's moderator status. It was a point, not a platform for you to tirade upon, Skav.

And a chain mail would tell you to pass it on to somebody else or something would happen, that email didn't, so don't try to make it bigger than it is, by assigning terms to it that are in fact making it bigger than it is.

If you don't like the community, go right ahead and leave it. I am tired of your tirades, and whining, and severe case of not wanting to understand the base of the post. The MODS don't abuse their power, and if they do, they won't be doing it for long. But at the same time, we don't bend over for everybody to kick our ass for sport.

knightimmortal

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: knightimmortal ]

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Post by Darknight » Fri Sep 13, 2002 9:16 am

I can understand Mike wanting to see a copy of the email, as an individual, if I were in a similar situation. However, Skav, you're doing nothing to promote any growth and cohesiveness within this virtual community. You can't change the fact that the mods are here. The world won't change just because you think it should. I generally think the mods do a good job, and it's very easy to criticize them, but without them, the board would no longer be.

One other small thing. Distrust breeds distrust. Sure, there are people I don't trust also, but to make a statement as you did damages everyone in the surrounding area. Try and be a little more civil, and think things through a bit more, would ya, for the good of the community?

Darknight

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Darknight ]

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Post by Skav » Fri Sep 13, 2002 10:12 am

First of all, KI, stop jumping over MY ass every time I offer an opinion. The statement WAS civil and even the last paragraph was just an opinion! so what? I am sick of YOUR whining everytime I post and getting accusations from you accusing me of attacking you personally.

As for you suggesting that I leave if I don't like it, you also don't have to read or reply to my posts if you don't like it! It works both ways.

Oh, and don't nitpick the chain email phrase, it was just me describing an email being sent out to people.

2nd of all, Darknight...well, read above!

Skav

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Fri Sep 13, 2002 1:03 pm

And another thing... I happen to appreciate Skav's comments. It seems that it's perfectly OK for people to post messages suggesting that I'm the bad guy in all this, but when Skav tries to offer his opinion that maybe we could give Mike the benefit of the doubt for the time being, he gets jumped on.

Thank you Skav for your patience and keeping an open mind.

Mike

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 1:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skav:
<STRONG>


It just hightens my dis-trust in this community ever since MODS were appointed!

Skav</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with K.I Skav..That is a very rude comment to say and to those who read it, who may i say have done nothing towards you apart from disagree with your posting attitude,they can take that to heart..and if it affects you that much what about a time out?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Pajaro:
[QB]

And another thing... I happen to appreciate Skav's comments <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought you probably would Mike...If anyone agrees with you it seems that it doesn't matter what they say, or can say about the community members!!!...Seems you use you moderating hat for personal gains rather then helping the board and its community!!

K.I.T.T [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Fri Sep 13, 2002 1:56 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K.I.T.T:
<STRONG>
Seems you use you moderating hat for personal gains rather then helping the board and its community!!
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please give us an example of what I have done as a moderator for personal gain.

Mike

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Post by K.I.T.T » Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Pajaro:
<STRONG>

Please give us an example of what I have done as a moderator for personal gain.

Mike</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Praising those who discredit and harm the community to save your early comment.
Though i feel i should have edited my post at the end i see you don't really get stuck in like K.I as your style seems to be more occasional moderating to threads that need attention


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>By Mike In A Moderator's New Lament:
[QB]
If people think of me as just being a member of the board rather than a moderator, then I am doing a good job of being the type of moderator that I WANT to be <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

K.I.T.T [img]images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

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