Knight Rider Legacy Discussion Thread

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Post by Darknight » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:36 pm

Wonderful! Since you don't have time to squabble, I guess we can end this whole mess right here and now. I'm very glad you've decided to do the right thing, Richie. Now the board can continue in peace without your incessant squawking.

---------------------------------------------

You don't know anything about me, and my life. It just so happens, Richie, that I'm a very, very busy person, who is lucky to find a few minutes to come and read this board. Unfortunately, when I come here I find that you have once again turned it into a place of conflict. That's a shame. I'm busy trying to earn a degree so that I can earn a living for myself, and my family. You have no business assuming that somehow your time is more precious than the time of others. No one is asking you to do the BG book either. Lemme guess, it's all for the fans there also? Soon you'll be offering to do a guidebook for MacGyver and Streethawk and the A Team, all for the fans, of course.
Who do you think you're fooling?

...and I'm not hostile. I'm just highlighting a few worthy points. If I were hostile, it'd look a lot different.

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:42 pm

Darknight, I will ask again that if you have a question about the book, I will answer it.

Otherwise please as Neil asked in the first post let that attack go.

I am being kind and considerate. This issue conerns two authors and Mike, not me. If you continue to feel a need to single me out, then you are ATTACKING me and that is not the point of this thread.

If you do not like what I have to say, avoid this thread. If it pertains to the book I will do my best and comment on it. So far you seem to be the only one who does not understand this.

I did not say you had a busy life. But right now I want book concerns only. Personal attacks or comments not related to the book can be addressed to Neil or Laura and I will answer them via email.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation Corby for understanding this critical point. By the way good luck with your degree, I have 2 myself I know how hard it can be.

Richie Levine

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: knightvision ]

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Post by Darknight » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:04 pm

I was just responding to your personal reference to me. As for Knight Rider Legacy, how do we know there won't be a 3rd edition which renders the first two rather worthless? With all the grammatical mistakes in the current edition, I'd think that another edition just to correct all of them would be warranted. I really don't think you want me to talk about the book too much, however. After all, my field of study is in English/Writing.

I do, however, sincerely thank you for allowing this exchange to draw to a close. I feel much better now that it's all worked out.

Darknight

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: Darknight ]

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darknight:
<STRONG>I was just responding to your personal reference to me. As for Knight Rider Legacy, how do we know there won't be a 3rd edition which renders the first two rather worthless? With all the grammatical mistakes in the current edition, I'd think that another edition just to correct all of them would be warranted. I really don't think you want me to talk about the book too much, however. After all, my field of study is in English/Writing.

I do, however, sincerely thank you for allowing this exchange to draw to a close. I feel much better now that it's all worked out.

Darknight

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: Darknight ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do apologize for the grammatical errors, that is something that we are attending to right now. As a fair point, I have the guide to Three's company and their are 20 grammatical mistakes in that, but that in no way makes the book any less readable. I agree and the 2nd edition will fix that.
See I do agree with your point and I assure you Joe and I will still miss a few, but just a few, no one is perfect.

My BA is in Professional and Technial writing and my Associates is in Business Administration and Joe is finishing up his degree in Computer Information Systems.

Writing a book is a learning process. Maybe that is the one thing we can agree on. There will never be a 3rd edition because I have my next project and interviews begin on that at the end of this month. As with any learning process I regret more then ever rushing the book. This time it will be professionally edited this weekend by a professor in English. We will not rush this book, but I do appreciate any and all comments, who knows I might agree with many of them.

If writing a book was easy everybody would do it. Trust me, I wish I could pass on my long distance expenses for all those cast interviews to somebody! (Just kidding).

[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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Post by CSPilot » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:54 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by knightvision:

"Honestly Joe and I both spoke today on the phone and came to the conclusion that Mike can rest assured knowing that one of the worst shows of all time in syndication--TEAM KNIGHT RIDER, will be his exclusive property."

Thanks for your support for Knight Rider

We appreciate it.

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: Chad ]

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Post by neps » Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:12 pm

Okay, it's starting to seem that everything that could be said has, so this thread will be drawing to a close. You all have till 12 midnight est Tuesday to respond maturely and calmly. continued failure to do so will result in a premature closing of the thread. (don't ask what that means, just behave!)

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Post by knightvision » Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chad:
<STRONG>[QUOTE]Originally posted by knightvision:

Thanks for your support for Knight Rider

We appreciate it.

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: Chad ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, but I am not quite sure what you meant by that, seeking some clarification. If it is what I think it is, then by all means thank you for your support of the book.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Oct 08, 2002 1:58 am

What is the purpose of this thread?

It is not to determine what should happen with the book. Although I'm sure Joe & Richie welcome constructive input, ultimately it will be their decision to replace chapters or add photos to the book.

It is not to determine who has copyrights over material. That's way beyond the jurisdiction of this webboard.

It is not to determine definitively who is right and who is wrong.


This thread is "The Court of Public Opinion". Basically, Joe, Richie and myself are trying to justify our actions to the Knight Rider community. And we are being judged on how we handle ourselves in here. I have no delusions thinking that everyone is going to support my decision to contact iUniverse. I knew my actions would upset people other than just the authors, and I am prepared to accept that.

The main thing that I want people to accept is that Joe and Richie did in fact willingly, knowingly, and intentionally copy original writings from my website. If you want to say "the authors stole Mike's material, but Mike still should have handled things differently", then I can respect that. At least we will have a common starting point for any further discussions, public or private, and I can build a case explaining my actions. In my mind, that is a pivotal issue. If you believe that it's merely a coincidence that sentences from my website appear verbatim in the book, then we're pretty much stuck at square one.

For me, everything that has happened over the last 2 months stems from the fact that some of my writings appear in the book. If you accept that as truth, then you should be able to at least understand what I did, even if you don't agree with it.

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Post by Skav » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:03 am

Okay, it's basically vica versa. Mike, I respect you and your views about the copyright infringement,and, Richie and Joe, I respect you to fight back.

But, as i understand it, it has come to a resolution, so, for respect for the KR community, KR Cast and KR fans in general, let's drop it and let the book come out whenever it does!

It's done. No more! I don't wish to see more bickering between Richie and Mike and I am sure the whole KR generation don't (being the kr community and general KR fans.)

Close the thread.

It's a done deal!

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Post by knightimmortal » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:11 am

Skav, once again, I will ask that if you do not want to see what is going on in this single, solitary thread, then don't, move on. Neil has stated that he will shut this thread down at Tuesday, Midnight Eastern so as to give all a fair opportunity to speak on this issue. It is not for you, or for that matter even the rest of us to dictate what can and can't be said in this issue, for whatever reasons it has been stated. Not everything has been resolved, and as with the majority of large conflicts, they spring off smaller issues that the public at large (including Richie and Mike) have every right to speak their minds towards.

And to Mike, I think we are all fully aware of what this thread is about, and don't need your definition of it. Kindly do not tell us what the duties of this board and its constituents are, when they are in fact expressing their opinions to a matter that you in fact escalated. As for copyright infringement, I am presuming that you are stating that only you can observe what is in violation and what isn't. Not cool. As for believing your side of the story, at this point, it's fairly moot, and I, personally, am starting to get beyond caring. It's just interesting to note that you didn't clean up your backyard before you started to toss leaves, and obviously did not think through the majority of the blaring consequences when you decided to take these actions. Being the elder in this situation, we did expect a little more from you.

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Post by knightvision » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The main thing that I want people to accept is that Joe and Richie did in fact willingly, knowingly, and intentionally copy original writings from my website


Any further comments by Mike Pajaro will be met with legal action from our representative.

This is the last time Mike will be warned about this, libeling the authors of the book who have the EXPRESSED WRITTEN PERMISSION of Glen Larson, Patricia Mcpherson, Rebecca Holden, Rick Copp, David Goodman, Steve Kirokize, Marcus Miller, William Daniels, Carmen Arganziano.....on and on and on....

Mike has 14 different copyright violations on www.teamknightrider.com and knightridermovie.com that have been reported to Universal Studios. Any further comments will result in our representation consulting with the legal department of Universal Studios, Revolution Studios and Mattel, Inc for violation of their logo trademarks.

At this point it would be in Mike's interest to walk away from the board, his moderation position and his site, because every word that Mike puts on this board is being emailed to our represenative and libel claims are a serious matter.

At least I am not treating everyone like they don't know what is happening.
Your own moderator thinks you are infringing.

Wake up Mike and send over a letter to Iuniverse dropping the infringement.

If anyone thinks legal action isn't possible onb libel, on this point I am serious.

Richie Levine
Co-Author of Knight Rider Legacy: The Unofficial Guide to the Knight Rider Universe

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: knightvision ]

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Post by Skav » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:20 am

hey, hey, i was only trying to give peace to the thread! not to make trouble. i don't understand where ur interrogations are coming from....honestly!

i was only trying to help the Mike/Richie situations cos it was getting out of hand, with the other board members getting involved as well.

if you need to talk further about this, feel free to come on MSN and we can talk.

If my attempts at making peace can't be said, then i don't know what will.

but as i said, i was only trying to calm the situation down.

sure, Neil, said he would close the thread but I was only backing him up in that instance.

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Post by knightimmortal » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:21 am

Neil doesn't need to be backed up, he is the administrator and whose hands do you think it is getting out of?

Nothing is getting out of hand. Let's not start, shall we?

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Post by knightvision » Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>

i was only trying to help the Mike/Richie situations cos it was getting out of hand, with the other board members getting involved as well.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Mike/Richie situation is completely under control, I have no reason to be angry just disturbed that Mike continues to treat us like we know nothing and he knows everything. No curses, no name calling I promise.

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Post by Smoothy » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:39 am

I still see that after I said that we should move on, people are still throwing all sorts of accusations to everyone else. For the sake of this board and of the Knight Rider community, please do not post any more accusations or libelous statements.

The book writers have done a good job, the situation is clearly resolved and no amount of temper tantrums is going to change the fact that the book is dropping the TKR section while adding some new bonus materials to make up for the dropping of said section.

We should move on. It's only a book. And a very good book at that.

If we keep on this slagging off of people for all sorts of reasons, then we may not see any kind of book, film, or whatever in the future because people will not think it's worth the trouble.

Move on.

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Post by knightimmortal » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smoothy:
<STRONG>I still see that after I said that we should move on, people are still throwing all sorts of accusations to everyone else. For the sake of this board and of the Knight Rider community, please do not post any more accusations or libelous statements.

The book writers have done a good job, the situation is clearly resolved and no amount of temper tantrums is going to change the fact that the book is dropping the TKR section while adding some new bonus materials to make up for the dropping of said section.

We should move on. It's only a book. And a very good book at that.

If we keep on this slagging off of people for all sorts of reasons, then we may not see any kind of book, film, or whatever in the future because people will not think it's worth the trouble.

Move on.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smoothy, you are blowing that way out of proportion, and you are probably not aware of the underlying history of the situation. Like I have said before, if you want to move on, then by all means, please do, there are other threads that need contributions. Neil and I are carefully watching this thread, and he or I will be shutting it down Midnight Eastern time. If you don't like it, move on, but this conflict is not going to have any bearing on future KR projects. Unless you let it.

Calm down.

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Post by knightvision » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:56 pm

Let us remind Mike one last time of what he has chosen to ignore.

1) Mike does not own the copyright to the Team Knight Rider Episode Guide. Rick Copp and David Goodman do.

2) Mike currently has 11 pages which use the Universal logo, while claiming to be an unofficial site.

3) Mike currently uses the Revolution Studios logo XXX without permission. Same with the Mattel logo.

4) Mike has used his moderating to ask for an email that was not addressed to him and remains a bias individual who has abused his position of power and has taken advantage of the goodwill of the community.

5) Mike was unprofessional, disrespectful to both Joe and I countless times as well as facing the board and the Knight Registries Board with potential libel infringements based on his blunt accusations.

6) Mike is a domain squatter as well, from knightridermovie.com to newknightrider.com to knightrider3000.com. If I told Mike what the new title of the movie would be and he could confirm that he would buy that name to.

7) Mike has no written support by cast members of Knight Rider or Team Knight Rider. He can argue all he wants but when it comes down to it if you want to believe the fact that Mike has any connections, take a look at the Knight Rider Legacy book and see who really included the community and acknowledged its contributions.

8) Mike has not answered any of the above points directly because let us be honest, Mike can not. He would rather lead you off into some stupid comment that allows him to demonstrate his prowess and his screen capture ability.

I don't expect anyone to see the reasons why Mike Pajaro has sought to be a hostile and rude individual who refuses compromise, but his lack of answering any of my questions is proof enough that he has something to hide.

If this is the kind of moderator you want Neil, I wish you the best of luck. Behemoth and Knightimmortal both could not get along with him and both have stated at one time or another their displeasure of working beside him. I will let you know Neil when you can repost the link to Barnes and Nobles.

Since we are close to midnight, unless Mike wants to answer my questions put to him, I think it is best this topic ends here and now.

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Post by Johnathan Kent » Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:16 pm

To Richie and Joe,
due to the fact of ALL the squabbling here over the book, I will NOT be buying your book...feel free to e-mail me (either of you)if you have questions...I do believe as a Moderator you need to look at both sides of the issue in any group you have moderation....I also believe that as a Moderator YOu need to swallow your pride...that is all I'm going going to say on this issue...

Thank you for you time

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Post by knightshade » Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:35 pm

Hey Mike, sorry you're having to once again deal with this. I appreciate your attempts to rationally explain the situation, and I think the evidence is pretty clear. I hope this all gets settled soon.

To the people who support Richie and the book, great. More power to you -- try to be polite.

To the people not supporting Richie and not buying the book. Again, more power to you -- try to be polite.

What I'm having a hard time with are the people who were adament that something had to be done to get Richie off this board and support the continuing ban against him but who are now supporting him because they want the book. Yes, there were other people involved with the book, but the bottom line is that supporting the book is supporting Richie, and that is not necessarily the same thing as supporting the KR community.

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Post by Skav » Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:49 pm

"What I'm having a hard time with are the people who were adament that something had to be done to get Richie off this board and support the continuing ban against him but who are now supporting him because they want the book. Yes, there were other people involved with the book, but the bottom line is that supporting the book is supporting Richie, and that is not necessarily the same thing as supporting the KR community."

I would have to agree with you there, Knightshade!

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Post by Darknight » Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:59 pm

Charles...Richie and Joe aren't mods.

Now, for the rest. Out of pride Richie and Mike started the sprint to have the "best" Knight Rider website, while they both used enormous chunks of copyrighted material. Out of pride they decided to begin fighting about it. It was a matter of time till someone tried to finally emerge as THE authority on KR. That time came when Richie decided to write this book, recruiting a well meaning Joe to help him out. Out of pride Mike decided to call Richie's hand on the suspected plagiarism, all the while knowing the extent of his own infringements.
Now, out of pride Richie threatens to take legal action against Mike, not caring that whatever happens to Mike could determine the fate of the rest of the KR websites, and also the fanfic. The issues are very real and serious. The stakes are high, and I ask each one of you to stand up if you're not willing to allow the online KR world to be ruined by the extreme pride of two people. Whose side am I on? The side of those folks just like us who just want to visit KR sites, and read KR fanfic, and post here at this board. If Richie gets his way, that could all become a thing of the past. What can you do? Maybe not much legally, but you can at least speak up in the time remaining, and let your voice and opinion be heard.

Darknight

[ October 08, 2002: Message edited by: Darknight ]

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Post by knightvision » Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by knightshade:
<STRONG>Hey Mike, sorry you're having to once again deal with this. I appreciate your attempts to rationally explain the situation, and I think the evidence is pretty clear. I hope this all gets settled soon.

To the people who support Richie and the book, great. More power to you -- try to be polite.

To the people not supporting Richie and not buying the book. Again, more power to you -- try to be polite.

What I'm having a hard time with are the people who were adament that something had to be done to get Richie off this board and support the continuing ban against him but who are now supporting him because they want the book. Yes, there were other people involved with the book, but the bottom line is that supporting the book is supporting Richie, and that is not necessarily the same thing as supporting the KR community.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The issue here is the book. As Neil said in the opening post direct attacks on me are not the issue here. Supporting the book is supporting Laura and Chris, both of whom contributed to the book, as well as Neil, Paul and others who contributed photos and time.

I suggest you take a look at the situation again and refer to both authors when referring to the book, it is the proper acknowledgement and the respectful one.

Richie Levine
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Post by knightvision » Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:21 pm

FYI Darknight, I gave up on any competition with Mike awhile back, you can't compete with somebody who has a disorganized site. I will always feel that Paul has done a fantastic job on his site(just wondering but is he updating anytime soon?).

As for knowing more about Knight Rider yes I do. I will bow to Mike in the area of Team Knight Rider, since its clear that Mike wants to remain the top of the heap for a show that did dysmal in syndication ratings and got cancelled in its first season.

To each his own. Mike only read one chapter of the book, so Mike is limited on talking about the rest of the book. Keep that in mind.

Corby, I will send you the links of the Universal logo on Mike's site and his unofficial disclaimer if you doubt what I am saying. However what Mike is doing is libeling the book.

If Mike is willing to send an acknowledgement to Iuniverse stating that he has dropped his claim then I am willing to forget the libel statements and slander that Mike has insisted on using to discourage people from buying the book.

After 12am you won't be hearing anything more then an announcement the book is back up.

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Post by Michael Pajaro » Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:23 pm

Darknight, your assessment of the situation is probably more accurate than my "pride" will let me admit, but I do disagree on a few points.

Internet laws are vague, but "Fair Use" protects most of our websites. Those laws do not apply to a book written for profit, so there is a huge difference between my alleged infringements and the alleged infringements in the book.

Obviously ego comes into play for just about everything we do: whether it's publishing a book, maintaining a website, writing fan fiction or building a replica. We all want some sort of approval. That's human nature. But I can honestly say that it wasn't "pride" that made me contact iUniverse. I'm not sure if there is a single word to explain it. It includes frustration, some anger, but most of all I think it was the concept of "enough is enough".

Mike

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Post by Skav » Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:31 pm

Do you mean that the announcement is going to be much sooner than the end of Oct- early Nov date you stated to me yesterday, Richie?

Or do you simply mean that we won't be hearing anything from you until other than the end of Oct announcement?

Skav

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